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Posted: 4/2/2006 8:30:40 PM EDT
Will the party become so divided and weakened over this issue that it will become as ineffective as the Democrats have been since ~2000?
I don't think jumping ship from the Republican party is a viable alternative at this point but I just don't see things looking very good if we go forward with an amnesty. Is this going to totally kill us? Will that dipshit wolf-in-sheep's-clothing McCain end up being the front man in 2008? 
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Posted: 4/2/2006 8:33:17 PM EDT
[#1]
this will be far more politically devastating. the general public cares about immigration much more than they ever did about gun control
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Posted: 4/2/2006 8:34:50 PM EDT
[#2]
Yes, and I'll do stuff to help on this one too.
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Posted: 4/2/2006 8:39:26 PM EDT
[#3]
It's a distinct possibility.
Democrat or Republican: The destination is the same, all that's different is when you arrive. 
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Posted: 4/2/2006 8:40:32 PM EDT
[#4]
+1 I'm voting 3rd party this year.
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Posted: 4/2/2006 8:41:01 PM EDT
[#5]
No - because they all know that 99% of the "republican" voter will still vote for them, if the alternative is Hillary and her ilk. |
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Posted: 4/2/2006 8:41:11 PM EDT
[#6]
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Posted: 4/2/2006 8:49:01 PM EDT
[#7]
+1. The people have had it with the Republicans on a number of issues, not just immigration. Republican leadership will soon find out the meaning of "the silent majority" when they get booted out of office. Not all of them of course, but I'd be surprised if they retain control of the Senate and their majority in the House will be cut to nil. Just my prediction... |
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Posted: 4/2/2006 8:50:33 PM EDT
[#8]
Thanks for the link. Somehow I missed that one. It's impossible to keep track of every thread here.  Posted :: 3/30/2006 1:10:39 AM MDT so technically not a dupe? 
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Posted: 4/2/2006 8:52:16 PM EDT
[#9]
i wouldnt call this a dupe. it should compare and contrast any difference between the immigration hot potato to the gun control hot potato
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Posted: 4/2/2006 8:52:22 PM EDT
[#10]
Yes.....
It is already happening. Just look at the threads here on ARFCOM. Most of us conservatives have already turned against the Republicans over this issue. When us gun guys are bad mouthing the Repubs, it goesn't bod well for the Repubs in the next election. |
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Posted: 4/2/2006 9:02:39 PM EDT
[#11]
Good point. Can you expound on those two hot potatoes? How is an amnesty going to play out similarly to the gun control issue - or not? One difference I see is that in the case of amnesty, both republicans and democrats want it. Republicans want it because they support business (ie. cheap labor) and dems want it because they know who'll be voting for them. 
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Posted: 4/2/2006 9:04:15 PM EDT
[#12]
I completely agree. This next election will be interesting. |
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Posted: 4/2/2006 9:06:09 PM EDT
[#13]
YES
Coni Rice is our only hope, she's a woman AND black... Plus, she's a conservative... |
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Posted: 4/2/2006 9:07:05 PM EDT
[#14]
But HOW MANY are willing to vote for Hillary in the next presidential election, or by voting thrid party, or not voting - are willing to allow her to be president, but not adding your vote to the republican candidate who opposes her. Come election time, the appeal will be to not "cut off your nose to spite your face" and I think most people will vote republican again - which of course just encourages this behavior. |
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Posted: 4/2/2006 9:16:07 PM EDT
[#15]
I bet if any third party campaigned on a platform of Repealing All Gun Control and Bouncing All Illegal Aliens, they'd carry the day.
Constitution Party, can you hear me? |
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Posted: 4/2/2006 9:18:03 PM EDT
[#16]
No, they'd split the vote and screw everything up, but.... If we're gettin' screwed by both parties already... SURE. I'd vote for 'em. |
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Posted: 4/2/2006 9:21:07 PM EDT
[#17]
Better make your vote count now. In few years it will be diluted by 12 million (low estimate) of those marchers we've all seen. I think a particularly vicious trip to the woodshed in 2006 might be the last chance for the Republicans. I rather have them get a swift kick to the temple in 2006 (and wake the f--- up) then wait until 2008 when Hitlery might take it all. Bush can spend the last two years vetoing SOMETHING as atonement for all the ways in which he has abandoned and screwed his base and America. |
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Posted: 4/2/2006 9:21:07 PM EDT
[#18]
There is something being overlooked on this issue. It is said in the media spin machine of the republican party that Hispanics will do the jobs that whites won't. THere might be some truth if by "whites" they mean 'whites over 30 yrs old. What about college kids? My parents both worked to make ends meet. I did get a couple of grants, but I had to work. The jobs I could get were limited to basically menial labor. I needed a job to get through college. There were times when I considered dropping out of college due to finances.
I truly believe that if amnesty is granted, the middle class will lose their ability to attend college. This will raise the upper class because those kids that don't need college jobs will graduate with degrees, and with the middle class kids being forced to drop out, there will be a shortage in degreed applicants, thus forcing higher pay for these positions. THe rich will get richer, and the gap between the classes will widen. Just a theory... |
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Posted: 4/2/2006 9:24:08 PM EDT
[#19]
Exactly. If this immigration shit continues, many repubs are going to vote for Hillary just to be vindictive. I have heard lots of people say that who I never thought would. |
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Posted: 4/2/2006 9:27:00 PM EDT
[#20]
I agree 100% with that. |
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Posted: 4/2/2006 9:27:38 PM EDT
[#21]
Good luck with that one. If you can't get your message out you are NOT going to get enough votes no matter what, and there is NO third party political group with enough cash to really get the word out. The first step for any of theese parties is to get (I think) 5% of the vote so they can get government funding. Of course McCain-Fiengold BCRA doesn't make things any easier for the little guys. I am still not all doom and gloom for the republican party. I just can't see a lot of people voting for a different party (which also seems to be for the exact same reason they wouldn't be voting for the GOP). I look at the 2004 election and other than this illegal immigration being brought more to the forefront, everything is the same and the GOP still GAINED seats. BTW, GunRunnr1 - Are you a communist? You sure sound like one.
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Posted: 4/2/2006 9:29:01 PM EDT
[#22]
Anyone that votes for amnesty, Republican or not, will not get a vote from new come next election. I don't care what fucking party they belong to.
And that's a promise. |
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Posted: 4/2/2006 9:43:44 PM EDT
[#23]
Going to be far worse IMO.
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Posted: 4/2/2006 9:44:56 PM EDT
[#24]
I sure hope this one destroys the Republican party. Time to separate the Libertarians from the pussies.
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Posted: 4/2/2006 9:50:40 PM EDT
[#25]
Clement? You think I sound like a communist? I'm a patriot, that should be clear. Your assuming I'm a communist for stating real possibilities is actually reminiscent of stalin's russia. "Don't question the government, they are here to protect us". Maybe you should re-read my post. My fear is that the middleclass will be unable to compete. Clement, are you a member of India's upperclass? India's upperclass likes the fact that their lowerclass can't compete. You do know that the reason our (US) economy works is that it is possible for anyone to attain upperclass status. Right? |
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Posted: 4/2/2006 9:56:19 PM EDT
[#26]
It's quite posssible, and actually a pretty good analogy. It will separate the buisiness conservatives from the "working class" conservatives.
The Republicans have a very tricky situation on their hands. Build the wall, and alienate the biggest voting block of the next 100 years. Vs. continue on with unchecked immigration and lose their base. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. |
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Posted: 4/2/2006 9:57:45 PM EDT
[#27]
So if the Republicans don't act upon the immigration issue to your satisfaction, you'll vote for a Democrat?
Do you really think that the Democrats want immigration reform? |
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Posted: 4/2/2006 10:03:28 PM EDT
[#28]
Yeah, that's the answer....  The Republicans lose the Senate and House in '06 and in '08 reply by running an unproven black female with no track record for President. Some of you guys are utterly clueless. I guess I really don't care as I hope the Republican Party gets the everloving shit kicked out of them. They will NEVER get another vote from me as long as I live. |
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Posted: 4/2/2006 10:07:37 PM EDT
[#29]
Fixed. |
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Posted: 4/2/2006 10:11:29 PM EDT
[#30]
I WILL vote for a third party. Period. I don't even give a shit if they do a 180 at this point. If they would betray us and our nation now, what is to stop them in the future. Fuck 'em all, Dems and Republicans. |
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Posted: 4/2/2006 10:15:39 PM EDT
[#31]
That sentance right there is pretty much ripped directly out of the Communist Manifesto. Karl Marx would be proud. Just understand where some of theese popular phrases /spin offs come from. Just missing the rebellion of the prolitariat. I feel like I'm reading propaganda from the communist party in that last paragraph of yours (of your original post).
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Posted: 4/2/2006 10:21:40 PM EDT
[#32]
+1. Both parties are dominated by traitors looking to make a quick buck and/or increase their personal power. Where's a strong rope and good hangin' tree when you need one? |
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Posted: 4/2/2006 11:18:17 PM EDT
[#33]
I think the Repubs will get religion and most will fall in the border wall and sanctions column. Most of their base will realize that bolting to the Dems or third parties is like handing Hilarious votes. And no matter what, almost anybody would be better than her. Plus many legal Hispanics will be drawn to the Repubs as the emphasis on how the illegals hurt the economy and job market. Basically they take the lowest paying jobs away from blacks and hispanics and force down the wage scales in the unskilled labor markets. Plus other immigrantas don't want to reward the folks that skipped the legal loops they had to fight through.
The Dems will be far more split by the issue. Already the Teamsters and other Unions are coming out against pro-illegal alien stances. Either they throw in their lot with the far left and professional Hispanics and demand that the taxpayers continue to fund illegals and give them special privileges. Or they can swing to the middle roaders and oppose amnesty and special treatment. Those that favor giveaways are going to lose voters to the Repubs who don't. With few exceptions most thinking Republicans won't throw away their votes to a Democrat and most Republican districts should be safe over the issue because they can only gain from a hard stance and lose few base. The Dems are going to lose base if the pander to the Hispanics in most areas. Right now the great majority of areas which haven't had immigration woes are now getting their education and most middle Americans don't like what they are seeing. |
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Posted: 4/2/2006 11:27:05 PM EDT
[#34]
hell yes. they lose my vote
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Posted: 4/2/2006 11:30:10 PM EDT
[#35]
Democrats want amnesty and voting rights for illegals and felons (thier constituency) and oppose a closed border. If the libertarians change their border and defense platform this could be a huge windfall in the event of Rudy/McCain Vs. Shitlary. The Dims are not an out and voters know it, I predict stagnation. |
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Posted: 4/3/2006 12:27:23 AM EDT
[#36]
Here's us an idea that I have been contemplating for a couple of days, now.
Become a Democrat. Yet, fight them on every Marxist position they take. Change their party from the inside. With the Democrats, it's never about money (like it is with the Big-Business-Handjob Republicans), it's about ideas - just really shitty ideas. They're dreamers, idealists, utopianists. Why not work a scam from the inside, a real first-class sales job, appeal to their hearts and minds (since Republicans seem to have nether one at their disposal) to: Decrease spending Fix the border Remove the Gun Control Albatross from around their necks Support American business AND the American Worker If we could drive out the Marxist portion of the Wingnut Division of the Democratic Party, we could steal an already "legitimate" party (well, "established," anyway) that has millions of registered voters. The Marxists will never change, anyhow. |
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Posted: 4/3/2006 1:46:06 AM EDT
[#37]
I have really struggled with this one. I am sick to my stomach at the prospect of Hillary as president. I have also had it with the treasonous Bush administration. I never thought I would say that I might vote for Bush (those who know me would never believe it), but after tossing this around, I would vote for Hillary only to indicate I want a change, not that we'll get it mind you, but I can't send the message that I support what has been going on. God, this makes me sick. Maybe I will just shoot myself. |
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Posted: 4/3/2006 8:50:49 AM EDT
[#38]
Interesting observation. What if the Dems lose the teamsters and unions? We tend to focus only on the Republicans being caught between two opposing positions. But this is interesting. So do you all think that BOTH parties will ultimately be drawn to the center? It appears both parties have much to lose, either way. |
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Posted: 4/3/2006 8:52:15 AM EDT
[#39]
Yes |
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Posted: 4/3/2006 8:53:54 AM EDT
[#40]
No, because we need our gun rights, but we also need, as Mayor Bloomberg put it, nice golf courses. Those immigrants are doing the work that Americans won't. They are largely hard working and industrious. Legalize them and collect taxes. Our coming labor shortage will in a few years dictate that we either outsource or increase immigration. Why not save the transportation costs and go with those already here?
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Posted: 4/3/2006 8:57:35 AM EDT
[#41]
Tax cuts. AWB sunsetting. Junk lawsuit immunity. Two conservative justices replacing 1 1/2 conservative justices. Hardline on terror worldwide.
After that, everything else the Republicans have done and are doing is leftist, liberal, and traitorous. |
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Posted: 4/3/2006 9:02:52 AM EDT
[#42]
which is why i hate it when people [on here] say things like, "...well, if you don't like [whatever], then vote for someone else!" we've gotten to the point in this country where we are forced to vote for a particular party in the hopes of them making a difference, while in actuality they continue to fuck things up just as bad as the other party. |
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Posted: 4/3/2006 9:10:32 AM EDT
[#43]
If it as the point were someone would votes against their party view just to be vindictive (and that there is no other choice*), then said person is too .. stupid to realize that the system is broken. If it is the lesser of two evils time and time again, just boot both their asses out. Or something to that affect.. *mumbles* 
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Posted: 4/3/2006 9:19:05 AM EDT
[#44]
1992 was only 14 years ago, and already people forget.
Mr. Bill was elected in 1992. How many of you thought that would happen? How did it happen? It happened because Bush Sr. screwed over his conservative base. It happened because Bush Sr. did not continue President Reagan's legacy of empowering the individual. It happened because there was a third party for disgruntled conservatives to vote for. Two terms of Clinton and the people see what liberalism is, they turn out in droves to vote conservative (ya know, the platform Republicans stand upon, but don't follow) and Republicans take over two branches of government, and are able to make strong improvements in the third. Wow, we are in charge... spending should have decreased, personal liberties should have been increased, taxes have decreased, the rule of law should be enforced.. the borders should be secure... But they are not, our politicians have failed us yet again, they do not learn from history and they do not have the nations best interest at heart. One thing that can help this situation is term limits. Hopefully with term limits, they won't be in D.C. long enough to forget what being an American is all about. |
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Posted: 4/3/2006 9:31:03 AM EDT
[#45]
other than gun control, somebody tell me the difference between big-govt liberal-spending Bush and Hillary.
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Posted: 4/3/2006 9:33:20 AM EDT
[#46]
The Republican's better come up with a good plan because if they don't it's going to hurt them really bad.
Everyone here has to realize the extremes aren't going to happen no matter who is in office. What are you going to do with 12 million people? Arrest them? You can't, there is no room and we don't have the funding to keep them in jail. Deport them, you would be splitting up families and again you don't have the funding. It would be politicial suicide for whoever was in office to do this, so it won't happen. If you can't arrest them and you can't deport them and they are already here...what are you going to do with them. That is the point the debate is at. Now the Republican's propose a "guest worker" program but have no penalty for not being in the program, that is not a good plan. Since the illegals are here and the government has flat out said it will not remove them then a program needs to be put in place to document each one, make sure their income is reported, make sure they are taxed, and make sure they documentation is so complete that if they leave the country and come back under a different name after skipping out on taxes or criminal charges they will be identified. That is good plan because it makes them accountable just like everyone one of us is. |
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Posted: 4/3/2006 9:38:57 AM EDT
[#47]
This typifies one of the problems of illegal immigration. False "facts" being sung like some kind of religious prayer. The mantra of "doing work that Americans won't do" is a fallacy. There is no job that Americans won't do. The mantra of "hard working and industrious' is a fallacy. While some exhibit these traits, all are criminals, all perpetrate fraud, and did I mention all are criminals. That pedophile is also hardworking and industrious, but is still a criminal and still needs to be jailed. EDIT for Swires post: "Can't deport them and can't arrest them" is another fallacy. Our country has the wealth, power, ability, and logistical support needed to deport every illegal alien here, it wouldn't be done overnight but is easily done over an acceptable period. The simple thing is that we don't need to, as they would self-deport if existing laws were followed and new minimal laws were enacted. Heavily fine businesses that employ illegal aliens and stop any services given to illegal aliens that cost the taxpayer/citizen money. The vast majority wouldn't be able to work or get free healthcare or an education and would leave. |
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Posted: 4/3/2006 9:44:52 AM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
[If you can't arrest them and you can't deport them and they are already here...what are you going to do with them. ] Exactly. The only logical thing is to come down on the employers with heavy penalties. Make it cost prohibitive to hire illegals. Normally the democrats would be whining about "big business" greed, however, in this case they are muzzled because we are dealing with "minorities". And obviously republicans aren't going to take up the issue with employers. |
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Posted: 4/3/2006 9:49:17 AM EDT
[#49]
The fix is in: even the Republicans admit this is a naked vote grab. From http://www.washtimes.com/national/20060403-125600-6207r_page2.htm
in other words: Too bad, white male Republican-voting America -- you are getting sold OUT. |
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Posted: 4/3/2006 10:00:14 AM EDT
[#50]
I won't vote D, but if the Republicans play 'not to lose' anymore, I sure as fuck won't be voting R. As is, we're fucked instantly with Democrats in power, and slowly with the current 'Republicans' in power. There is no chance of winning if we keep the status quo. The only way to win is to let the Republican party, or some other party, know that we're tired of this shit and won't stand for it. |
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