Quoted: EDIT for Swires post: "Can't deport them and can't arrest them" is another fallacy.  Our country has the wealth, power, ability, and logistical support needed to deport every illegal alien here, it wouldn't be done overnight but is easily done over an acceptable period.  The simple thing is that we don't need to, as they would self-deport if existing laws were followed and new minimal laws were enacted.  Heavily fine businesses that employ illegal aliens and stop any services given to illegal aliens that cost the taxpayer/citizen money.  The vast majority wouldn't be able to work or get free healthcare or an education and would leave.

It's not that we can't afford to deport or arrest them, it's that no politician would ever find the support to do that.  If the government can keep on finding $90 billion every six months for Iraq then finding a couple billion do deport the illegals would be no big deal.  But when half the country seems to want them here, a quarter of the country doesn't care, and only a quarter of the country "wants to do something" there is no way the government will stick it's neck out, spend the money, and then watch the daily sob story of children without parents, sob stories about businesses closing because they can't find workers...and all the BS that the media would be showing.  So because of the political fall out not because of the financial aspect "they can't be deported or arrested".

Quoted: The fix is in: even the Republicans admit this is a naked vote grab.  From http://www.washtimes.com/national/20060403-125600-6207r_page2.htm But in a column posted yesterday on OpinionJournal.com, White House ally Ed Gillespie dismissed their approach as "populist" and suggested those Republicans oppose even legal immigrants and immigration.    "The Republican Party cannot become an anti-immigration party," Mr. Gillespie warned his fellow Republicans. "Our majority already rests too heavily on white voters, given that current demographic voting percentages will not allow us to hold our majority in the future." in other words:  Too bad, white male Republican-voting America -- you are getting sold OUT.

Demographically we are doomed in the long run.  This may well be the last gasp for the dwindling majority.  Go down screaming bloody murder boys!

Quoted: The fix is in: even the Republicans admit this is a naked vote grab.  From http://www.washtimes.com/national/20060403-125600-6207r_page2.htm But in a column posted yesterday on OpinionJournal.com, White House ally Ed Gillespie dismissed their approach as "populist" and suggested those Republicans oppose even legal immigrants and immigration.    "The Republican Party cannot become an anti-immigration party," Mr. Gillespie warned his fellow Republicans. "Our majority already rests too heavily on white voters, given that current demographic voting percentages will not allow us to hold our majority in the future." in other words:  Too bad, white male Republican-voting America -- you are getting sold OUT.

We get as much respect from the present Republicans as Blacks get from the Democrats. They don't give a f--- what we think and are sure that "stay with the party" bullshit and a little rhetoric around election time is all that is required.

If they thought they might actually lose your vote they would not pass amnesty. If you think you'll keep a meaningful vote on gun rights move to California and see what impact it has.

Those Mexican flag waving mobs are your future. Thank you Republicans, may we have another?

Quoted: No, because we need our gun rights, but we also need, as Mayor Bloomberg put it, nice golf courses.  Those immigrants are doing the work that Americans won't.  They are largely hard working and industrious.  Legalize them and collect taxes.  Our coming labor shortage will in a few years dictate that we either outsource or increase immigration.  Why not save the transportation costs and go with those already here?

We have a huge resource just waiting to be put to work. I would put the prison population to work picking fruits and vegetables, for free even. Hell most of them are expert gardeners anyway as they were caught up in the drug war growing some forbiden fruit or the other. But that is another thread.

  Now all we need is a Revolution!  

Quoted: Quoted: EDIT for Swires post: "Can't deport them and can't arrest them" is another fallacy.  Our country has the wealth, power, ability, and logistical support needed to deport every illegal alien here, it wouldn't be done overnight but is easily done over an acceptable period.  The simple thing is that we don't need to, as they would self-deport if existing laws were followed and new minimal laws were enacted.  Heavily fine businesses that employ illegal aliens and stop any services given to illegal aliens that cost the taxpayer/citizen money.  The vast majority wouldn't be able to work or get free healthcare or an education and would leave. It's not that we can't afford to deport or arrest them, it's that no politician would ever find the support to do that.  If the government can keep on finding $90 billion every six months for Iraq then finding a couple billion do deport the illegals would be no big deal.  But when half the country seems to want them here, a quarter of the country doesn't care, and only a quarter of the country "wants to do something" there is no way the government will stick it's neck out, spend the money, and then watch the daily sob story of children without parents, sob stories about businesses closing because they can't find workers...and all the BS that the media would be showing.  So because of the political fall out not because of the financial aspect "they can't be deported or arrested".

I don't know what bullshit station (FOX) you got that information from, but the data on this one is clear. Every poll taken in this country shows between 75-80% of Americans want the illegal immigrants removed. That is a hard fact. This was common knowledge a few weeks ago before this story exploded, now all of a sudden the facts have been changed by a complicit press.

  Now all we need is a Revolution!  

Quoted: Quoted: The fix is in: even the Republicans admit this is a naked vote grab.  From http://www.washtimes.com/national/20060403-125600-6207r_page2.htm But in a column posted yesterday on OpinionJournal.com, White House ally Ed Gillespie dismissed their approach as "populist" and suggested those Republicans oppose even legal immigrants and immigration.    "The Republican Party cannot become an anti-immigration party," Mr. Gillespie warned his fellow Republicans. "Our majority already rests too heavily on white voters, given that current demographic voting percentages will not allow us to hold our majority in the future." in other words:  Too bad, white male Republican-voting America -- you are getting sold OUT. We get as much respect from the present Republicans as Blacks get from the Democrats. They don't give a f--- what we think and are sure that "stay with the party" bullshit and a little rhetoric around election time is all that is required. If they thought they might actually lose your vote they would not pass amnesty. If you think you'll keep a meaningful vote on gun rights move to California and see what impact it has. Those Mexican flag waving mobs are your future. Thank you Republicans, may we have another?

I will not stay.  My elected official puts his pen to amensty and no effort t ostem the flow then I'm done with them.  I'll take the short term pain to let the R's feel that the stove is hot.  If we can't even manage to do that because we are so rabidly afraid of a loss in the short-run then they are correct and we just bend over and take it, while we come here to bitch.  We'll be getting just what we deserve.


Who else thinks this is going to get shelved until the 06 elections are over now?  I'll bet this gets done right after elections in the hopes we have short memories.

Quoted: YES Coni Rice is our only hope, she's a woman AND black... Plus, she's a conservative...

There are two problems with that line of reasoning.  First, she's not black enough to win the black vote.  They think see her as an eggplant, ( or Oreo, or whatever they're calling it now) black on the outside, white on the inside.

Second, she's made it abudantly clear that she's not running for anything.

Quoted: Here's us an idea that I have been contemplating for a couple of days, now. Become a Democrat. Yet, fight them on every Marxist position they take. Change their party from the inside. With the Democrats, it's never about money (WTF?  you need to get out more.) (like it is with the Big-Business-Handjob Republicans), it's about ideas - just really shitty ideas. They're dreamers, idealists, utopianists. Why not work a scam from the inside, a real first-class sales job, appeal to their hearts and minds (since Republicans seem to have nether one at their disposal) to: Decrease spending Fix the border Remove the Gun Control Albatross from around their necks Support American business AND the American Worker If we could drive out the Marxist portion of the Wingnut Division of the Democratic Party, we could steal an already "legitimate" party (well, "established," anyway) that has millions of registered voters. The Marxists will never change, anyhow.

I can see where you are coming from, but IT IS ALWAYS ABOUT THE MONEY.  

You would think that the Working class / Union Democrats would be clamoring for the wall, but the Marxist roots run deep, in fact, they run to it's very core.  

Quoted: Quoted: Clement? You think I sound like a communist? I'm a patriot, that should be clear. Your assuming I'm a communist for stating real possibilities is actually reminiscent of stalin's russia. "Don't question the government, they are here to protect us". Maybe you should re-read my post. My fear is that the middleclass will be unable to compete. Clement, are you a member of India's upperclass? India's upperclass likes the fact that their lowerclass can't compete. You do know that the reason our (US) economy works is that it is possible for anyone to attain upperclass status. Right? THe rich will get richer, and the gap between the classes will widen. That sentance right there is pretty much ripped directly out of the Communist Manifesto. Karl Marx would be proud. Just understand where some of theese popular phrases /spin offs come from. Just missing the rebellion of the prolitariat. I feel like I'm reading propaganda from the communist party in that last paragraph of yours (of your original post).

Heck Clement McCarthy. I'm sure that Stalin at times would go outside and say "Shit it's cold out here". That doesn't mean if we say the same sentence, that we're commies. I think you need to read through some of the economic research coming to light. I'm really not in the mood to discuss world economics with some idiot that cries, "COMMIE" at the drop of a hat.