Poll to follow.

it blows

ibtp

Quoted: it blows

Agreed.

None of your choices reflect my opinion .

I believe he is following bad advice

Quoted: None of your choices reflect my opinion

...Then state it in a post...

A policy that betrays our sovereign right as a nation; embraces those that did the violating; and labels those who disagree as bigoted or ignorant? It's a sad reflection of how far we have fallen, and foreshadow of what we are to become...

Is this a trick question? a Rhetorical one? OR a TRAP!?

Poll is screwed up.  Not sure, but don't think it works with five choices.
I voted for the man twice.  This time I voted for your fifth choice.  

He's a damn traitor that's openning the flood gates to criminals and possibly terrorists.

While I won't go as far as saying "traitor" he's damn close to the line for me.

Yeah, he's done/is doing some good things and not taking any shit on the War On Terror but what fucking good does it do?  "Win" against terrorists only to have our own country subverted and lost due to MILLIONS of blood sucking illegal invaders being offered a welcome mat at the expense of our own citizens.

The very fact that he (and members of his party) continue to pander to illegals and suck Vicente Fox's cock on command either is a sign of TOTAL DISCONNECT FROM REALITY (and the wishes of your OWN CITIZENS) or the "ruling class" of this nation have reached a position of power and control that they truly don't care what the "little people" think or will do, they have their agenda and what the Citizens want is completely irrelevant.

Laura Ingraham (on the Chris Matthews show said, paraphrasing)  that the Republicans have basically decided to ignore the base on this one. The Republicans are going to forge some coalition of business interests and Latinos, looking toward the future.

WHAT STANCE?

The amnesty bullshit is just unbelievable.

Quoted: Laura Ingraham (on the Chris Matthews show said, paraphrasing)  that the Republicans have basically decided to ignore the base on this one. The Republicans are going to forge some coalition of business interests and Latinos, looking toward the future.

You have meddled with the primal forces of nature, Mr. Beale, and I won't have it!! Is that clear?! You think you've merely stopped a business deal. That is not the case. The Arabs have taken billions of dollars out of this country, and now they must put it back! It is ebb and flow, tidal gravity! It is ecological balance! You are an old man who thinks in terms of nations and peoples. There are no nations. There are no peoples. There are no Russians. There are no Arabs. There are no third worlds. There is no West. There is only one holistic system of systems, one vast and immane, interwoven, interacting, multivariate, multi-national dominion of dollars. Petro-dollars, electro-dollars, multi-dollars, Reichmarks, Yen, Rubles, Pounds, and Shekels. It is the international system of currency which determines the totality of life on this planet. That is the natural order of things today. That is the atomic and subatomic and galactic structure of things today! And YOU have meddled with the primal forces of nature, and YOU WILL ATONE! Am I getting through to you, Mr. Beale? You get up on your little twenty-one inch screen and howl about America and democracy. There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and ITT and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, Union Carbide, and Exxon. Those are the nations of the world today. What do you think the Russians talk about in their councils of state -- Karl Marx? They get out their linear programming charts, statistical decision theories, minimax solutions, and compute the price-cost probabilities of their transactions and investments, just like we do. We no longer live in a world of nations and ideologies, Mr. Beale. The world is a college of corporations, inexorably determined by the immutable bylaws of business. The world is a business, Mr. Beale. It has been since man crawled out of the slime. And our children will live, Mr. Beale, to see that perfect world in which there's no war or famine, oppression or brutality -- one vast and ecumenical holding company, for whom all men will work to serve a common profit, in which all men will hold a share of stock, all necessities provided, all anxieties tranquilized, all boredom amused.

- Arthur Jensen (Ned Beatty) from "Network" (1976)

Illegals just create the 5-option polls that Americans don't want to create.

Quoted: Illegals just create the 5-option polls that Americans don't want to create.

You either agree with his policy or you don't (or you simply do not care, in which case, why would oyu be discussing it?).

If you find this poll incapable of laying out, or closely aligning to your own political beliefs, then something is wrong with you.

I can't say I fit into any of those categories but the bottom line is, none of our politicians want to loose the votes of millions of illegal aliens.  If you want to stay in office you have to pay attention to what the voters want.

Quoted: You either agree with his policy or you don't (or you simply do not care, in which case, why would oyu be discussing it?). If you find this poll incapable of laying out, or closely aligning to your own political beliefs, then something is wrong with you.

Polls with 5 options do not work. The results for choices 4 and 5 will be fucked up.

Regardless, even if you dropped the fifth option, your poll isn't worded very well.

I find myself wondering how people still have questions about this administration.

Bush is a traitor to the common people of this country. He is the ruling class and to hell with the little people. Transnational corporations and their desire for ever cheaper labor makes Bush dance to their tune.

Quoted: You have meddled with the primal forces of nature, Mr. Beale, and I won't have it!! Is that clear?! You think you've merely stopped a business deal. That is not the case. The Arabs have taken billions of dollars out of this country, and now they must put it back! It is ebb and flow, tidal gravity! It is ecological balance! You are an old man who thinks in terms of nations and peoples. There are no nations. There are no peoples. There are no Russians. There are no Arabs. There are no third worlds. There is no West. There is only one holistic system of systems, one vast and immane, interwoven, interacting, multivariate, multi-national dominion of dollars. Petro-dollars, electro-dollars, multi-dollars, Reichmarks, Yen, Rubles, Pounds, and Shekels. It is the international system of currency which determines the totality of life on this planet. That is the natural order of things today. That is the atomic and subatomic and galactic structure of things today! And YOU have meddled with the primal forces of nature, and YOU WILL ATONE! Am I getting through to you, Mr. Beale? You get up on your little twenty-one inch screen and howl about America and democracy. There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and ITT and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, Union Carbide, and Exxon. Those are the nations of the world today. What do you think the Russians talk about in their councils of state -- Karl Marx? They get out their linear programming charts, statistical decision theories, minimax solutions, and compute the price-cost probabilities of their transactions and investments, just like we do. We no longer live in a world of nations and ideologies, Mr. Beale. The world is a college of corporations, inexorably determined by the immutable bylaws of business. The world is a business, Mr. Beale. It has been since man crawled out of the slime. And our children will live, Mr. Beale, to see that perfect world in which there's no war or famine, oppression or brutality -- one vast and ecumenical holding company, for whom all men will work to serve a common profit, in which all men will hold a share of stock, all necessities provided, all anxieties tranquilized, all boredom amused. - Arthur Jensen (Ned Beatty) from "Network" (1976)

that was a prescient movie  for a mid-70's Hollywood flick

Quoted: I can't say I fit into any of those categories but the bottom line is, none of our politicians want to loose the votes of millions of illegal aliens.  If you want to stay in office you have to pay attention to what the voters want.

Illegal aliens cannot vote, and by thier very nature are criminals and should be treated as such.

DEPORT! DEPORT! DEPORT!

Quoted: Polls with 5 options do not work. The results for choices 4 and 5 will be fucked up.

The reason results for choices 4 and 5 will be "fucked up" is because they are mainly highly liberal. Not because they are in 4th and 5th place, respectfully.

Regardless, even if you dropped the fifth option, your poll isn't worded very well.

Agree or disagree and opinion on performance - how damn difficult is that?

Bush is the President of the US.

Is he really going to tell his base to fuck off and give 12 million a pass that puts them on the social welfare rolls? We already have a debt ceiling of 9 trillion dollars and Social Security and Medicare are going to go broke. WTF?

Quoted: The reason results for choices 4 and 5 will be "fucked up" is because they are mainly highly liberal. Not because they are in 4th and 5th place, respectfully.

Incorrect.

Options 4 and 5 will be fucked up because 5 option polls do not work properly at Arfcom. I don't know how to say it any plainer than that.

Agree or disagree and opinion on performance - how damn difficult is that?

Then why not a two option poll?

The way you have it now is all over the place. What is practical difference between 1 and 5? Option 3 is worded unrealistically. It would have made more sense if you just had 4 options, (Strongly disagree, disagree, agree, strongly agree with the stance on illegals), and just drop that extraneous stuff you tried to cram in there.

 call him jorge bush, more suitable.  he's a goddamn anus.  adios norte americanos.

Quoted: Quoted: I can't say I fit into any of those categories but the bottom line is, none of our politicians want to loose the votes of millions of illegal aliens.  If you want to stay in office you have to pay attention to what the voters want. Illegal aliens cannot vote, and by thier very nature are criminals and should be treated as such. DEPORT! DEPORT! DEPORT!

Vote whores indeed. Illegals will thank Jorge for the free entry pass as they vote Democrat.

Quoted: He's a damn traitor that's openning the flood gates to criminals and possibly terrorists.

A Traitor????? Are you fucking nuts????

Wanna back that up?  BTW, shitty choices on the poll, too.

B_S

George Bush is a complet shit bird as a president. He is fucked the USA on the immigration issue. He has openly said "Nationalism" will distroy America in one way or another. He is nothing more than a globalist one world government peice of shit.

And fuck the catholic church for supporting illegal immigration too, there members are dwendeling and they know the Mexicans will help there numbers.



Once they get all these illegals in here as cheap labor we should organize an Unionize them to drive up there wages. That will show those fuckers for trying to get cheap labor.

Quoted:  call him jorge bush, more suitable.  he's a goddamn anus.  adios norte americanos.

North America includes the countries of Canada, United States and Mexico.  Learn your geography.

Quoted: Quoted: He's a damn traitor that's openning the flood gates to criminals and possibly terrorists. A Traitor????? Are you fucking nuts???? Wanna back that up?  BTW, shitty choices on the poll, too. B_S

Sure look at his "Guest Worker Program" that will give the illegals that are here a path to citizenship. Basically you have made what was once illegal legal and not punished them to the extent of the crime, this is called Amnesty.

He has encouraged millions of more folks to come here illegally in the hopes of one day getting "Amnesty".

His "Program" does not screen for criminals, does not deport forigen criminals currently incarecrated in the USA, nor does it screen the illegals here for health issues (HIV/AIDS, T.B, Bubonic Plauge (Yes its on the comback on the border)).

Fuck Jorge.

This poll lacks meaning, it is nothing more than a rant.

If we go on the conservative number of 10 million illegal aliens in the US now, how much would it cost to identify, locate and deport all 10 million?  Would it not be better to stop the influx?  Amnesty as proposed does not include limitless immigration.  And the expense is best spent on building a better border with respect to limiting illegal immigration.

Now lets look at the global economic problem.  We have very high labor costs and a nearly zero net population growth. The third world is knocking on our door and we either use their labor (preferably in their countries) or we let someone else do it like China and then face them on the military stage.  Pick your poison.

This is why the President is courting Mexico.  Not for votes but economic partnering because if we don't do it, someone else will.  

I'm not going to back everything the President proposes, but if you're going to accuse someone of being a traitor, you had better have a good Goddamn case or STFU.

"Traitor" is not a word to be thrown around lightly.

If you were POTUS, how would you handle it?

Personally, I'd build a huge fucking wall BEFORE any talk of "guest worker programs" or "earned citizenship."  

I agree with all of you that there is a serious problem that needs to be fixed, and I'll even concede that President Bush should listen to his "base" on this one; but the guy is NOT A TRAITOR.

Quoted: I'm not going to back everything the President proposes, but if you're going to accuse someone of being a traitor, you had better have a good Goddamn case or STFU. "Traitor" is not a word to be thrown around lightly. If you were POTUS, how would you handle it? Personally, I'd build a huge fucking wall BEFORE any talk of "guest worker programs" or "earned citizenship."   I agree with all of you that there is a serious problem that needs to be fixed, and I'll even concede that President Bush should listen to his "base" on this one; but the guy is NOT A TRAITOR.

Well what is a traitor in your book?

I mean he is not doing anything to protect our borders from a forigen invasion and is actually trying to encourage more of the invaders to come over. What more does it take to be a traitor?

Quoted: Quoted: He's a damn traitor that's openning the flood gates to criminals and possibly terrorists. A Traitor????? Are you fucking nuts???? Wanna back that up?  BTW, shitty choices on the poll, too. B_S

It is copied and pasted form the first poll choice as it most accurately states my opnion.  I have been beating this to death on many other threads and have been for a couple of years now so I don't really feel the need to expound. Right now I am involved in 4 threads concerning the subject.

Pick one

Quoted: This poll lacks meaning, it is nothing more than a rant. If we go on the conservative number of 10 million illegal aliens in the US now, how much would it cost to identify, locate and deport all 10 million?

Who cares? It'd be well worth it.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: He's a damn traitor that's openning the flood gates to criminals and possibly terrorists. A Traitor????? Are you fucking nuts???? Wanna back that up?  BTW, shitty choices on the poll, too. B_S It is copied and pasted form the first poll choice as it most accurately states my opnion.  I have been beating this to death on many other threads and have been for a couple of years now so I don't really feel the need to expound. Right now I am involved in 4 threads concerning the subject. Pick one

Your opinion, no facts.  That in blue is all that one needs to read.  You are right, you have beaten this to death.

Quoted: Quoted: I'm not going to back everything the President proposes, but if you're going to accuse someone of being a traitor, you had better have a good Goddamn case or STFU. "Traitor" is not a word to be thrown around lightly. If you were POTUS, how would you handle it? Personally, I'd build a huge fucking wall BEFORE any talk of "guest worker programs" or "earned citizenship."   I agree with all of you that there is a serious problem that needs to be fixed, and I'll even concede that President Bush should listen to his "base" on this one; but the guy is NOT A TRAITOR. Well what is a traitor in your book? I mean he is not doing anything to protect our borders from a forigen invasion and is actually trying to encourage more of the invaders to come over. What more does it take to be a traitor?

WTF can the president do BY HIMSELF?  If you want to paint with such a wide brush,
say that ALL congress members are traitors, too.  Write to them and call them traitors.
Maybe the border state governors are traitors as well?  Call them out.  
Is the President supposed to order federal military troops to control the borders?  Never happen.

I don't believe President Bush is trying to encourage more illegals to come over (although they will).  

The fact is that there are many millions of illegals already here, do you deport them all?
Deny them benefits reserved for citizens?  I say yes, but we know that will not happen.

Build a huge wall, then we'll talk about immigration reform, that's my take.

B_S

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: He's a damn traitor that's openning the flood gates to criminals and possibly terrorists. A Traitor????? Are you fucking nuts???? Wanna back that up?  BTW, shitty choices on the poll, too. B_S It is copied and pasted form the first poll choice as it most accurately states my opnion.  I have been beating this to death on many other threads and have been for a couple of years now so I don't really feel the need to expound. Right now I am involved in 4 threads concerning the subject. Pick one Your opinion, no facts.  That in blue is all that one needs to read.  You are right, you have beaten this to death.

And I will continue to do so.  Other things as well.

What facts do you want?
20million illegals invading this country under the nose of a govt that fails to do the will of the People, enforce the law or preserve the sovereignty of our nation?
The economics of the issue are somewhat complex but it ain't rocket science bud.

Utter betrayal. That's what I call it. You can call the smell of shit, roses for all I care.

heard a senator on savage say that bush and the congress are globalists at heart. that is the basis behinds lots of what is going on. they dont see the world as a bunch of nations, but instead as a bunch of 'economic blocks'. so their whole approach is based on economies, trading groups, trading blocks, trading treaties, nafta, cafta and so forth. not focused on national boundaries, they dont see enforcing the national borders as a priority. instead they are focused on economic and trading agreements.

bottom line is the people that have been elected to national office, and this includes both republicans and democrats and extents from the far left to the far right and 'doing there own thing' and not following the wishes of those that elected them as a basis for decisions. washington is pushing globalization. globalization   has little grass roots support anywhere, regardless of political orientation, right or left.

the truth is very few national politicians are doing what their constituents want. is time to throw them all out of office, left right, center. up down.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: He's a damn traitor that's openning the flood gates to criminals and possibly terrorists. A Traitor????? Are you fucking nuts???? Wanna back that up?  BTW, shitty choices on the poll, too. B_S It is copied and pasted form the first poll choice as it most accurately states my opnion.  I have been beating this to death on many other threads and have been for a couple of years now so I don't really feel the need to expound. Right now I am involved in 4 threads concerning the subject. Pick one Your opinion, no facts.  That in blue is all that one needs to read.  You are right, you have beaten this to death. And I will continue to do so.  Other things as well. What facts do you want? 20million illegals invading this country under the nose of a govt that fails to do the will of the People, enforce the law or preserve the sovereignty of our nation? The economics of the issue are somewhat complex but it ain't rocket science bud. Utter betrayal. That's what I call it. You can call the smell of shit, roses for all I care.

I am not your "bud".  Don't ever forget that.  You act like illegal immigration only started under this President.  You act like all the previous administrations did something about it.  You act like it is the only problem this country has to deal with.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm not going to back everything the President proposes, but if you're going to accuse someone of being a traitor, you had better have a good Goddamn case or STFU. "Traitor" is not a word to be thrown around lightly. If you were POTUS, how would you handle it? Personally, I'd build a huge fucking wall BEFORE any talk of "guest worker programs" or "earned citizenship."   I agree with all of you that there is a serious problem that needs to be fixed, and I'll even concede that President Bush should listen to his "base" on this one; but the guy is NOT A TRAITOR. Well what is a traitor in your book? I mean he is not doing anything to protect our borders from a forigen invasion and is actually trying to encourage more of the invaders to come over. What more does it take to be a traitor? WTF can the president do BY HIMSELF?

No offense but that is an ignorant question.
It is the duty of the Executive Branch, under the Constitustion of the United States, to enforce laws. There is no need for any further laws to be passed all that is required is for the President to say, "It ends now."
It really is that simple.

If you want to paint with such a wide brush, say that ALL congress members are traitors, too.  Write to them and call them traitors.

I pretty much have.

Maybe the border state governors are traitors as well?  Call them out.   Is the President supposed to order federal military troops to control the borders?  Never happen.

That's the whole point, ain't it?

I don't believe President Bush is trying to encourage more illegals to come over (although they will).

LMAO, of course he is.

The fact is that there are many millions of illegals already here, do you deport them all? Deny them benefits reserved for citizens?  I say yes, but we know that will not happen.

That doesn't mean it cannot be done.
End their jobs, end their sucking the system dry.
Eliminate the Anchor Baby crap.
End of problem.

Build a huge wall, then we'll talk about immigration reform, that's my take. B_S

Now that is not feasible though I do like the idea.
A wall someplaces, more agressive border patrols elsewhere.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm not going to back everything the President proposes, but if you're going to accuse someone of being a traitor, you had better have a good Goddamn case or STFU. "Traitor" is not a word to be thrown around lightly. If you were POTUS, how would you handle it? Personally, I'd build a huge fucking wall BEFORE any talk of "guest worker programs" or "earned citizenship."   I agree with all of you that there is a serious problem that needs to be fixed, and I'll even concede that President Bush should listen to his "base" on this one; but the guy is NOT A TRAITOR. Well what is a traitor in your book? I mean he is not doing anything to protect our borders from a forigen invasion and is actually trying to encourage more of the invaders to come over. What more does it take to be a traitor? WTF can the president do BY HIMSELF? No offense but that is an ignorant question. It is the duty of the Executive Branch, under the Constitustion of the United States, to enforce laws. There is no need for any further laws to be passed all that is required is for the President to say, "It ends now." It really is that simple. If it were really that simple, why haven't previous presidents acted, unless ALL illegal immigration has occurred under GW Bush. If you want to paint with such a wide brush, say that ALL congress members are traitors, too.  Write to them and call them traitors. I pretty much have. I like to see your letters to congress accusing them of being traitors. Maybe the border state governors are traitors as well?  Call them out.   Is the President supposed to order federal military troops to control the borders?  Never happen. That's the whole point, ain't it? It CANNOT happen, it is against the law! I don't believe President Bush is trying to encourage more illegals to come over (although they will).   LMAO, of course he is. Your opinion The fact is that there are many millions of illegals already here, do you deport them all? Deny them benefits reserved for citizens?  I say yes, but we know that will not happen. That doesn't mean it cannot be done.   What's your best strategy for doing this?  I'd really like to hear it. End their jobs, end their sucking the system dry. Once again, how would this be accomplished on your planet? Eliminate the Anchor Baby crap. Agreed End of problem. Build a huge wall, then we'll talk about immigration reform, that's my take. B_S Now that is not feasible though I do like the idea. A wall someplaces, more agressive border patrols elsewhere.

I think he is sincere but I think he has a bunch of lousy advisors...
His problem I see is that he does not read papers and keep up on the real world like Reagon would have...
he depends on his immediate advisors and they seem more concerned about politicians images than anything else.

NO red crap!!!
Argghghghghggh!!!!!!!!!

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm not going to back everything the President proposes, but if you're going to accuse someone of being a traitor, you had better have a good Goddamn case or STFU. "Traitor" is not a word to be thrown around lightly. If you were POTUS, how would you handle it? Personally, I'd build a huge fucking wall BEFORE any talk of "guest worker programs" or "earned citizenship."   I agree with all of you that there is a serious problem that needs to be fixed, and I'll even concede that President Bush should listen to his "base" on this one; but the guy is NOT A TRAITOR. Well what is a traitor in your book? I mean he is not doing anything to protect our borders from a forigen invasion and is actually trying to encourage more of the invaders to come over. What more does it take to be a traitor? WTF can the president do BY HIMSELF? No offense but that is an ignorant question. It is the duty of the Executive Branch, under the Constitustion of the United States, to enforce laws. There is no need for any further laws to be passed all that is required is for the President to say, "It ends now." It really is that simple. If it were really that simple, why haven't previous presidents acted, unless ALL illegal immigration has occurred under GW Bush. If you want to paint with such a wide brush, say that ALL congress members are traitors, too.  Write to them and call them traitors. I pretty much have. I like to see your letters to congress accusing them of being traitors. Maybe the border state governors are traitors as well?  Call them out.   Is the President supposed to order federal military troops to control the borders?  Never happen. That's the whole point, ain't it? It CANNOT happen, it is against the law! I don't believe President Bush is trying to encourage more illegals to come over (although they will).   LMAO, of course he is. Your opinion The fact is that there are many millions of illegals already here, do you deport them all? Deny them benefits reserved for citizens?  I say yes, but we know that will not happen. That doesn't mean it cannot be done.   What's your best strategy for doing this?  I'd really like to hear it. End their jobs, end their sucking the system dry. Once again, how would this be accomplished on your planet? Eliminate the Anchor Baby crap. Agreed End of problem. Build a huge wall, then we'll talk about immigration reform, that's my take. B_S Now that is not feasible though I do like the idea. A wall someplaces, more agressive border patrols elsewhere.

All the President has to do is enforce the laws. None of them have.
They are in place and it is already against the law to come here illegally, too hire illegals and there is no reason whatsoever that they should get handouts, free education or free medical care.

Enforcing the law against those who hire illegals would be how it would be done.

You need to use the quote function properly.

I don't believe President Bush is trying to encourage more illegals to come over (although they will).

LMAO, of course he is.

When Ole' Jorge says, "Mi casa blanca es su casa blanca."  That pretty much says it all.

I think a good analagy is the following.  If we were in a literal declared war with Mexico, what Bush is doing and saying now regarding illegal immigration would be the same as saying, "You know, I think the Mexican troops and military are superior to ours.  They are tougher, better disciplined, and work harder than most of our American military."  

10-4 Doc.

I really don't think he has a "stance"..  he's just dancing to the music.

I think he did have a "stance" on fixing Social Security but the immigration issue is annoying the hell out of his "business" buddies who want the status quo.

All the President has to do is enforce the laws. None of them have.
They are in place and it is already against the law to come here illegally, too hire illegals and there is no reason whatsoever that they should get handouts, free education or free medical care.

Enforcing the law against those who hire illegals would be how it would be done.

So all past presidents were traitors for not enforcing the immigration laws?  Or, is the title of "traitor" specifically reserved for Mr. Bush?  

I agree with you on most points except for the "traitor" accusation.

Hold employers to the law and punish them accordingly.  I can live with this.

B_S

If it wasn't for the Supreme Court granting rights, education, health care, etc to ILLEGAL ALIENS, and the wishy washy nature of Republicans, we wouldn't have this problem to the degree its in now.

Change the rules and build a wall. Simple. Give them no reason to bleed off the Govt dole and they will stay home.

He is a RINO!

He stopped being my president after the port scandal!


I don't know why so many "Bush-Bots" here continue to blindly support him!



ETA: He won't do anything to stop illegal immigration...