Testing The Premise: Are Gays A Threat To Our Children?
A discussion of gay sexuality and homosexual molestation
Monday, September 26,2005
“...Evidence showing that pedophilia is in fact a common part of the homosexual lifestyle is staggering… Homosexuals, while representing perhaps 2% of the population, perpetrate more than one-third of all reported child molestations.” – Colorado For Family Values [1]
“Individuals from the 1 to 3 percent of the population that is sexually attracted to the same sex are committing up to one third of the sex crimes against children.” – Timothy J. Daily, Family Research Council [2]
“Our laws and social policies should protect children, not cater to the whims and sexual desires of sexual predators. We must oppose homosexual activism ‘for the children’s sake.’” – Traditional Values Coalition [3]
When men molest little girls, they’re called “pedophiles” or “sexual predators”; heterosexuality is never blamed for the abuse. But when men molest little boys, they’re simply called “homosexuals”, as though sexual orientation were responsible for driving these men to their crimes.[4] Gays are singled out for suspicion of molesting children in numbers far out of proportion to their presence in the general population.

Child sexual abuse has a profound impact on victims and their families. Because we want to protect our children, we must ask: Are gays disproportionately abusing children?

The Starting Point: What Do We Know?

When it comes to numbers, we know surprisingly little about child sexual abuse. Official statistics are notoriously incomplete because too many cases are never reported. Many researchers believe that many male victims who are molested by men may not come forward because of the stigma surrounding homosexuality. These victims often not only fear the false label of being gay; they may also fear harassment or condemnation because of it. Fortunately, our society has recently shown an admirable steadfastness in supporting these victims when they do come forward, and their example has, no doubt, emboldened other victims to do the same. If anything remotely positive could come from the tragedy of the Catholic sexual abuse scandals, it is this: the stigma of same-sex abuse has been lowered considerably, allowing more victims to come forward.[5]

Unfortunately, this picture is very different with boys who are molested by adult women. Sociologists and case workers have noted that many boys who are sexually involved with adult women rarely complain simply because they don’t believe they’ve been molested. In fact, they’re likely to brag about their exploits to their friends, who in turn admire them for being enough of a “man” to have sex with an older woman.[6] Such sexual encounters are not only celebrated as a rite of passage, but are glamorized in television programs, movies, music videos and advertising. Because there is very little incentive in our culture to view this as harmful, such encounters rarely turn up in official statistics.

Indeed, this very fact may result in a very significant undercount of heterosexual activity between adults and minors. “Pedophilia chic” has been a very important part of mass-media advertising for decades, and by no means is it limited to glamorizing young males. Brooke Shields was only fifteen when she announced that “nothing comes between me and my Calvin Klein jeans.” Britney Spears has taught an entire generation of elementary school girls to show their midriffs, and Jon-Bonett Ramsey's murder introduced millions of Americans to the child-pageant circuit in which parents dressed their little girls as sexualized adults for competition and prizes. Indeed, there is a remarkable lack of shame in our culture surrounding the heterosexual exploitation of young children and adolescents.

Against this backdrop, it is impossible to know how many boys and girls are having sex with adults. And it is impossible to know how many adult men and women are having sex with under-aged boys and girls.  But among those cases which are reported, males make up about 25-30% of all child molestation victims, with females making up the remaining cases.[7] And as of July, 2000 about 94% of all sexual predators against juveniles who were reported to police were male.

A Simple Question

So it would appear that according to official statistics, men who abuse boys make up less than a third of all men who abuse children. And we know that the proportion of gays in the general population is very small – certainly much smaller than one-third. Some gay-rights activists claim that gays make up 10% of the population, but this is not supported by modern surveys. Others, especially those who oppose gay rights, claim that the number is much smaller, on the order of 1-3%. While there are many reasons to believe that this range is artificially low, most large-population surveys support a figure of around 3%.[9], [10]

What does this mean? Well, let’s say that we have gathered 10,000 adults in a stadium and asked them one simple yes-or-no question: “Are you gay?” If our 3% figure is correct, only 300 people in that stadium would answer "yes" to that question, with the remaining 9,700 saying "no."

And for someone who answers “yes” to that question, what would we know about him? Most people would consider the answer to be obvious: if he’s a man, he dates other men, he is sexually attracted to other men, and because he is comfortable enough to answer “yes” to a stranger with a clipboard, he is probably known by his family, friends and neighbors as being gay. He certainly isn’t married to a woman, nor is he dating women or doing much of anything else which would lead anyone to conclude that he is anything but gay. And you can draw the same conclusions for a woman who answer “yes” as well: she dates other women, is attracted to other women, and is comfortable enough to answer the question in the affirmative. In other words, visibly “out” gay men and women are typically the ones who are confident enough to answer "yes" to these surveys.

This point may seem simple-minded, but it is very important to keep in mind exactly who we're talking about when we're discussing this three percent. Anti-gay activists claim that upwards of a third of all child molesters who happened to show up at our stadium can be found among these 300 “out” men and women, while the remaining two-thirds would be scattered among the 9,700 “straight” people (or at least, those who claim not to be gay or lesbian). Using just this assumption, Focus on the Family concludes that “a child molester is 17 times more likely to be homosexual than heterosexual.”[11]

And how do we know that this three percent represents those who are "out"? It's simple: these same surveys show that this three percent does not include everyone who is behaving homosexually. Not only does it exclude bisexuals, but it also excludes those who don’t identify themselves as being gay for any number of reasons even though they engage in homosexual behavior. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 57.1% of men who had sex with another man did not consider themselves to be homosexual – or even bisexual.[12] Another representative survey suggests that more than 20% of all men admit to having had a homosexual experience[13], a figure which, by the way, comes close to closing the proportionality gap of men abusing boys. While this gives us our first clue that the claim made by anti-gay activists is not all that it seems to be, it is far from convincing. But it does show that a lot of people behave homosexually without being among the three percent who identify themselves as being gay.

To better understand what is going on, we need to look much more closely at those men who are abusing children. Fortunately, the professional literature is loaded with such studies.

Are Gay Men Abusing Boys?

In the 1992 campaign for Colorado’s Amendment 2 (which would have prohibited anti-discrimination laws based on sexual orientation), the group supporting the amendment, Colorado For Family Values, repeated the charge that 3% of the population was responsible for 30% of all child molestation cases. By constantly repeating this charge, they were able to persuade voters to approve the amendment (It was eventually overturned by the U.S. Supreme Court). But Denver-area doctors, case workers and investigators knew something wasn’t right with this charge based on what they were seeing in their daily work.

This lead Dr. Carole Jenny and her colleagues[14] to review 269 medical records of Denver-area children who were sexually abused by adults. Of the 50 male children, 37 (74%) were molested by a man who had been in a heterosexual relationship with the child’s relative. Three were molested by women, five were molested by both parents, and three others were molested by non-relatives. Only one perpetrator could be identified as being possibly homosexual in his adult behavior.

Let’s consider what this means. If these men who abused boys in this study were in our stadium, all but one would have answered “no” to the question “Are you gay?” More importantly, if authorities were on the lookout for gay child molesters, they would have missed 49 of these 50 sexual predators because they would have been hidden among the 9,700 in our stadium who said they were not gay. And not only did they say they were not gay, they were married, had girlfriends, or were otherwise known to have sexual relationships with women. If law enforcement had  been looking for the perpetrators among gay men, they never would have found them.

Dr. Jenny and her associates concluded that even if you use the worst case possibilities in their sample, no more than 3.1% of child sexual abuse cases reported to the Denver clinic were abused by someone who could be identified as possibly being gay, a proportion that is not far from the number of gays in the general population.

Two Types of Predators

As surprising as this may be, it only confirmed what Dr. Nicholas Groth, one of the leading experts in the study of child sexual abuse, demonstrated some sixteen years earlier. In 1978, Dr, Groth and Dr. Jean Birnbaum published a study of 175 convicted male child molesters in which they determined:

“The child offender is a relatively young adult either who has been sexually attracted to underage persons almost exclusively in his life or who turns to a child as a result of stresses in his adult sexual or marital relationships. Those offenders who are sexually attracted exclusively to children show a slight preference for boys over girls, yet these same individuals are uninterested in adult homosexual relationships. In fact, they frequently express a strong sexual aversion to adult males.”[15]
Dr. Groth identified two classic types of child molesters which he labeled fixated and regressed.[16] The fixated molester is one whose development is “fixated” at childhood. In other words, he has never grown up. He typically lives a Peter-Pan existence, in a Neverland of childlike identity and behavior. Even though he is physically an adult, he continues to identify himself with childhood and with children. He does not form adult relationships easily, or if he does, the relationships tend not to be very stable; instead, he sees children as his peers. He surrounds himself with children and is most comfortable with them. Other adults often see him as being “very good with children”, which allows him to obtain a position of trust, possibly as a role model, leader, caretaker or guardian.

Because his primary sexual interest is in children and not adults, he offers us the classic definition of a “pedophile.” Because he is fixated on children, he could not properly be considered to be either heterosexual or homosexual – the idea of having sex with an adult of either gender is often repulsive to him.

The regressed molester is very different. His attraction to children is usually more temporary. It is sometimes a matter of convenience, at other times, a matter of violent control or punishment. Unlike the fixated molester, the regressed molester’s primary sexual attraction is toward other adults. But stressful conditions which go along with adult responsibly or difficulties in his adult relationships may overwhelm him, causing his sexual attraction to “regress” towards children. This regression sometimes serves as a substitute for adult relationship, and his attraction to children may vary according to the varying stresses he encounters in his adult life demands.

In some cases, he may temporarily relate to the child as a peer, much as a fixated offender relates to children. But more often, he is simply lashing out or relieving the stresses in his life, and the child becomes a vulnerable and convenient target. He may find a sense of power in his sexual relationship with a child that he is unable to obtain with adult, and in these cases it is not unusual for this relationship to become coercive or violent. But regardless of the nature of the relationship, the gender of the child is often irrelevant – it is easy access and vulnerability that makes the child a target.

Research has shown time and time again that regressed offenders are very typically heterosexual in their adult relationships. Unlike our three percent sample, they date women and marry them. They often are parents, stepparents or extended family members of their victims. By all appearances – and by their own self identification – they are straight. Drs. Groth and Birnbaum emphasized this point, saying:

“In over 12 years of clinical experience working with child molesters, we have yet to see any example of a regression from an adult homosexual orientation. The child offender who is also attracted to and engaged in adult relationships is heterosexual.” [17] (Emphasis in the original)
Are These “Straight” Abusers Lying?

You’re probably shaking your head right about now. Why would a man who claims to be straight molest young boys? How could he not be gay, even if he refuses to admit it?

This concerned Dr. Kurt Freund and his associates at the Clarke Institute of Psychiatry in Toronto, where many convicted sexual predators were sent for treatment. Dr. Freund devised a test to determine whether their supposedly “straight” child abusers were lying. Using an instrument connected to the subject’s penis, Dr. Freund and his colleagues measured changes in its volume while the subject looked at pictures of nude men, women and children. These phallometric (penis-measuring) tests[18] supported their conclusion that as a group, gay men were no more likely to respond sexually to male children than straight men. Furthermore these tests supported these sex offenders' statements when they claimed to be gay or straight:

“These studies show that only rarely are sex offenders against male children diagnosed as androphiles (homosexual in adult orientation) and that phallometric diagnosis of gynophilic (heterosexual in adult orientation) and androphilic volunteers almost always corresponds to their claimed erotic preference.”[19]
So, they are clearly telling the truth – at least according to how they responded physically to the nude pictures. When they say they are straight, they respond to pictures of adult women, and when they say they are gay, they respond sexually to pictures of adult men. Yet Dr. Freund and his associates determined that gays are no more attracted to young boys than straights.

How Could “Straight” Men Be Attracted To Boys?

If these molesters aren’t lying when they say they’re straight, why would they abuse boys? What could possibly be the attraction?

Dr. W.L. Marshall and his colleagues conducted a similar set of phallometric tests on a sample of gay and straight men, except this time they used more photos of young boys and girls covering a wider age span. They noticed that for those gay men who were attracted to males under 18, they tended to be attracted to young men who were well past the age of puberty (age 15 or older), with fully-developed adult genitalia and other features which were characteristically masculine. But heterosexual men, when they showed an attraction towards younger males, tended to be attracted to pre-pubescent males (ages 9-11). Dr. Marshall and his colleagues noted:

“Amongst the heterosexuals, the commonest remarks concerning attractive features of the victims, were that the young boys did not have any body hair and that their bodies were soft and smooth.”[20]
In other words, it was the feminine characteristics of the young boys that straight child molesters found attractive. This explains the apparent contradiction of straight men abusing young boys. They really are straight, and when they abuse young boys, they are responding to the feminine qualities of pre-pubescent boys, qualities which the gay men in the study didn’t find appealing. After all, gay men are, by definition, attracted to men; the feminine characteristics of young boys were a turn-off to them.

“Homosexuality” and “Homosexual Molestation”

Part of the confusion between homosexuality and the molestation of young boys comes from the terminology used by researchers themselves. If an adult male molests a young boy, that type of molestation is typically called a “homosexual molestation”. But when described this way, the term “homosexual” is used as an adjective in its most literal sense – the victim and perpetrator are of the same sex. It does not refer to the sexual orientation of either the victim or the perpetrator. [21]

Unfortunately, researchers aren’t always careful with how they use the word “homosexual” in their academic writings. After all, they understand the clinical meaning of the word and how the meaning shifts according to the context in which it is used. “Homosexual abuse” merely describes the same-sex nature of the abuser and victim, not the sexual orientation of either the abuser or victim. They often use the shorthand “homosexuals” to describe the men who abuse boys. But when they go the extra step of determining the actual sexual orientation of child molesters, they tend to be much more careful in their choice of words. Some, like Dr. Freund, prefer the clinical terms “androphile” (attracted to men) and “gynophile” (attracted to women) to describe those who are attracted to adults.

This distinction is a very vital point, one that most anti-gay activists refuse to acknowledge. In fact, some are very hostile to this idea. Peter LaBarbera, of Concerned Women of America, exclaimed, “Who cares if a guy is married? If he’s molesting boys, that’s homosexual behavior. It’s academic nonsense to talk about these people as heterosexuals.”[22]

But it’s not nonsense at all. If a man is married, he’s not among the 3% who claimed to be gay in our stadium survey. He’s certainly not among the gay couples who are adopting children or seeking to marry. Instead, he’s among the vast majority who claim to be straight. If law enforcement were to focus their efforts on finding sexual predators among the “out” 3% who claim to be gay, 97% of male abusers of young boys would go unpunished. [23]

A Firmly Established Tactic

Yet anti-gay activists insist on spreading this misinformation. Dr. Timothy Dailey (PhD, religion) of the Family Research Council quoted Dr. Freund’s statement of “199 offenders against female children and 96 offenders against male children… This would indicate a proportional prevalence of 32 percent of homosexual offenders against children.”[24] But he ignored Dr. Freund’s clarification in the very same report that:

“the observed difference between the proportion of offenders against boys among offenders against children, and the proportion of androphiles (homosexual in adult orientation) among males who erotically prefer physically mature partners, is so large that it should not be overlooked. ...Androphiles actually responded significantly less to the male children.”[25]
This clinical language can be condensed this way: There is a big difference between men abusing boys and homosexuality, with gays (androphiles) being “significantly” less interested in male children. This echoes what Dr. Groth reported in 1982:

“The research to date all points to there being no significant relationship between a homosexual lifestyle and child molestation. There appears to be practically no reportage of sexual molestation of girls by lesbian adults, and the adult male who sexually molests young boys is not likely to be a homosexual.”[26]
But of course, you don’t see what the research really says in Dr. Dailey’s article. Instead, you’ll find it filled with massive misrepresentations of research findings – including those of Dr. Groth, who denounced Dr. Dailey’s misrepresentation of his work:

“Since your report, in my view, misrepresents the facts of what we know about this matter from scientific investigation, and does not indicate that my studies on this topic reach conclusions diametrically opposed to yours, I would appreciate your removing any reference to my work in your paper lest it appear to the reader that my research supports your views.”[27]
But no matter how loudly researchers denounce these misrepresentations, the damage is done. This tactic has become so firmly established, these activists are even willing to lie to the courts. The Family Research Council submitted a friend-of-the-court brief to the U.S. Supreme Court in 1999 for The Boy Scouts of America vs James Dale, in which they said that “although homosexuals account for less than two percent of the population, they constitute about a third of child molesters.”[28]

Easier to Nauseate Than Educate

But no matter how often a lie is told, it is still false. Dr. Michael R. Stevenson conducted an exhaustive review of the social science literature in 2000, and concluded that “a gay man is no more likely than a straight man to perpetrate sexual activity with children,” and “cases of perpetration of sexual behavior with a pre-pubescent child by an adult lesbian are virtually nonexistent”.[29] The research is so strong that the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatrists[30] and the American Psychological Association[31] have issued statements stating that there is no correlation between homosexuality and child sexual abuse.

Anti-gay activists know that their claims are false. They’ve read – and misquoted – research from the most knowledgeable experts in the field. But they keep spreading it because they know it is effective. Every parent would consider it his or her worst nightmare to discover that their innocent child has been sexually violated. And anti-gay activists feed on that fear to further their agenda because, as Colorado for Family Values founder Tony Marco  observed, “It is easier to nauseate than it is to educate.”[32]

And while this lie is horribly libelous to gay men and women, that’s only a small part of the damage. The real harm is to our children. As long as we remain suspicious of the wrong people, predators will continue to have free reign to abuse innocent children. If they remain free from scrutiny because everyone else is focusing on gays and lesbians, more young lives will continue to be shattered and more parents will suffer the agonizing heartache of learning that they trusted someone who destroyed their child’s future. We must not allow the far right to cynically jeopardize our children’s safety to further their agenda. The consequences are far too severe for the next generation

I don't belive that Gays are a threat to my children as far as being predators any more than straight people are. They are a threat to the values that I want to instill in my children by trying to make normal something that is not normal and trying to force society to embrace it. Do your thing, just don't force me to hear about it.

Quoted: IMHO SOME are. Then again SOME non gays are a threat as well. I have had a few gay freinds over the years. None of them were in your face and frankly unless you knew them well you'd never have known it. Thats the way it should be. I don't need the lifestyle in my face 24x7 and you don't need mine in yours. mike

+1

Welcome to the world of moral relativism - you can have be or do anything you want to - all you need is a small group of influential people to say that your freakish desire is "normal" and you are good to go.

Rome is burning folks, anyone smell smoke.

Everyone is a potential threat regardless of sexual orientation.

They are less of a threat than a gun in your home, and I think I know how we all feel about that.  Keeping a watchful eye goes a long way on all fronts.

Quoted: Welcome to the world of moral relativism - you can have be or do anything you want to - all you need is a small group of influential people to say that your freakish desire is "normal" and you are good to go. Rome is burning folks, anyone smell smoke.

Just a matter of time.
It's ok, Sodom and Gommarah burned and morality emerged elsewhere.
Just teach your kids right, and they will be well armed to face the depravity that is being normalized in our society.

Molesting children has nothing to do with one's adult sexual orientation, in my humble opinion.  Child molestation is about insecurity, and a sick and devoloped need for superiority and dominance.  Even though men molesting boys make up the majority of reported cases, it doesn't necessarilly mean they are attracted to men.  Rather, they are attracted to children, which is a perversion, and the perversion is further explored with same sex encounters.

Of course, I am neither gay nor of a mind to sexually assault a minor - be it what some refer to as consensual or not.  But I am an adult with enough intelligence to realize that any adult's sexual life that involves the desire to molest a child is not healthy.  I doubt very seriously that being gay somehow makes one more attracted to the sick fantasies involving children.  

And, as the presented evidence does suggest, if this were the case we'd have a proportional amount of female to female child molestations, which is not the case.  

Personally, I do not agree with same sex lifestyles and will do my very best to keep it away from my children.  But this is one of the very rare instances where I will defend them because the data is skewed (at best) and flat out incorrect (more likely).  To claim one being homosexual means they are more likely to be a pedophile is like saying owning a gun means you are more likely to commit a crime.  Just more advocate hypocrisy and personal agenda attacks.  

"OUR" Children?
How many children do you have Stoner student?

Quoted: Molesting children has nothing to do with one's adult sexual orientation, in my humble opinion.  Child molestation is about insecurity, and a sick and devoloped need for superiority and dominance.  Even though men molesting boys make up the majority of reported cases, it doesn't necessarilly mean they are attracted to men.  Rather, they are attracted to children, which is a perversion, and the perversion is further explored with same sex encounters.

+1.  You might as well be asking if Catholics are a threat to our children as well.

Quoted: Everyone is a potential threat regardless of sexual orientation.

I agree.
My best friend and his sister were both individually molested by a relative that was by
all accounts, before and after the fact, straight.
So was the relative: 1) Gay? 2) Straight?      ....Or  3) just a monster?
I have to think the third regardless of orientation.

Quoted: "OUR" Children? How many children do you have Stoner student?

Officially none.......unofficially one 6 yr old girl named Carly. I'm her "male parent figure" which means she doesn't call me dad. But I'm pretty much what she looks at as dad, her real father is not involved in her day to day life....his choice by the way.

Quoted: Quoted: Molesting children has nothing to do with one's adult sexual orientation, in my humble opinion.  Child molestation is about insecurity, and a sick and devoloped need for superiority and dominance.  Even though men molesting boys make up the majority of reported cases, it doesn't necessarilly mean they are attracted to men.  Rather, they are attracted to children, which is a perversion, and the perversion is further explored with same sex encounters. +1.  You might as well be asking if Catholics are a threat to our children as well.

I would like to see raw, empirical data of the proportional priest to population pedophiles.  I think they simply get more exposure, just like a cop breaking the law does.  Both are in a position of authority and trust, so when they violate that it is news that sells.   I doubt it is as scandalous as the media would have us believe.  

Likewise, the church protecting these sickos is little different than administration covering up an illegal act by a cop - except, of course, concerning the impact of the victim.  When one's position of trust and authority is abused in any manner, they should be outed expediently and punished severely.  In the case of child molestation, a bullet to the brain pan is the only acceptable solution for this man.  

NAMBLA is made up of men who are homosexuals first, child molesters second. If a man has sex with a male child he is at least bisexual.

Sorry, but the outing of homosexuality is not a boon for our society.

A homosexual can have sex with a person of the opposite sex, but their PREFRENCE (which makes it a choice) is for their own gender.

Quoted: IMHO SOME are. Then again SOME non gays are a threat as well. I have had a few gay freinds over the years. None of them were in your face and frankly unless you knew them well you'd never have known it. Thats the way it should be. I don't need the lifestyle in my face 24x7 and you don't need mine in yours. mike

I started this thread to respond to belloc's post in both the V for Vendetta thtread and in the religion forum. I put it in GD so as not to offend the people in the religion forum and hijack the movie review.

Quoted: Quoted: "OUR" Children? How many children do you have Stoner student? Officially none.......unofficially one 6 yr old girl named Carly. I'm her "male parent figure" which means she doesn't call me dad. But I'm pretty much what she looks at as dad, her real father is not involved in her day to day life....his choice by the way.

Being a real parent does not necessarilly involve a transference of bodily fluids.  Some of the best parents I know had no involvement in the conception process - they are merely willing to accept (with great pride) the role of mentor out of love and compassion.  If she doesn't call you "dad", do not be surprised when one day she does if you play the surrogate parent effectively.  

All 3 of Camy's kids call me dad, and it is not a role I accept lightly.  Indeed, if you have read my posts, you would know I refer to them as "mine".  As far as I am concerned, they are.

Quoted: They are less of a threat than a gun in your home, and I think I know how we all feel about that.  Keeping a watchful eye goes a long way on all fronts.

Please don't do the "gun in the house" BS.  I was raised on a ranch in Texas and had a rifle and hunted when I was six years old.  I taught my three kids to respect guns and hunt when they were six.  To them, a gun was a
tool that could put meat on the table and could save you butt if necessary.  Guns were not some rattle snake in the closet waiting to strike.  On the other hand, if you have other folks kids in the house and you have not met or vetted the parents, it could be a problem if the weapons are not secured. On the gay thing, I was a musician for many years and met many gays and had gay friends.  They didn't get in your face about their bent.  Sick people prey on children.  If you ever wondered if there is evil in the world, look no futher than the sexual predator.

Quoted: Quoted: They are less of a threat than a gun in your home, and I think I know how we all feel about that.  Keeping a watchful eye goes a long way on all fronts. Please don't do the "gun in the house" BS.  I was raised on a ranch in Texas and had a rifle and hunted when I was six years old.  I taught my three kids to respect guns and hunt when they were six.  To them, a gun was a tool that could put meat on the table and could save you butt if necessary.  Guns were not some rattle snake in the closet waiting to strike.  On the other hand, if you have other folks kids in the house and you have not met or vetted the parents, it could be a problem if the weapons are not secured. On the gay thing, I was a musician for many years and met many gays and had gay friends.  They didn't get in your face about their bent.  Sick people prey on children.  If you ever wondered if there is evil in the world, look no futher than the sexual predator.

I think you missed the point entirely.

Quoted: NAMBLA is made up of men who are homosexuals first, child molesters second. If a man has sex with a male child he is at least bisexual. Sorry, but the outing of homosexuality is not a boon for our society. A homosexual can have sex with a person of the opposite sex, but their PREFRENCE (which makes it a choice) is for their own gender.

While I agree the exposure and demands to accept the homosexual lifestyle are another agenda washing this country down the toilet at a record pace, I must disagree that raping a child has anything to do with sexual orientation.  As I stated in my original post, same sex encounters with children is nothing more than a sick, twisted, and dominace-fed desire that is further perverted in its attraction by same sex molestation.  

My Christian contentions aside, I am trying my best to be objective out of respect for Stoner Student, who has never once pushed his agenda in my face.  I intend to continue that mutual respect as long as he does.  I am no more going to call pedophiles more likely to be gay than I am going to state people with silencers are more likely to want to get away with murdering someone.  

While I abhor the "in your face, and you WILL tolerate it" mindset of homosexuality, I cannot idly agree that purported information from biased sources is another iron in the fire against an adult's decision to choose their lifestyle within accepted parameters.  While a homosexual's preference is obviously same gender sex, child molestation is another subject completely and has nothing to do with being interested in a bi-sexual or homosexual encounter.  It is about sick fantasies of degrading kids, and the fact the target is of the same gender is a simple methodology to make the experience as forbidden and perverse as possible.  

gays are about a 0% threat to kids. pedophiles are always a threat, but that has nothing to do with being gay. it has to do with being a *pedophile*.

in fact, i'd venture so far as to say that "gays" have less of an impact on children then they do adults. children don't make laws. children don't write newspaper articles. children don't start special interest groups. more importantly, children aren't clouded by the PC movement and all of the bs that comes from some of the aforementioned "adult" things. if a kid think's you are funny because you're gay, they'll laugh at you and tell you so...

The real threat to kids is bad parenting or lack of.  Fathers who are ineffectual, self absorbed or heavy handed can point a young male towards insecurity and problems with sexual identity.  The environment they grow up in will decide if they lean that direction or not, and THEN homosexuals become a threat.

Quoted: Quoted: NAMBLA is made up of men who are homosexuals first, child molesters second. If a man has sex with a male child he is at least bisexual. Sorry, but the outing of homosexuality is not a boon for our society. A homosexual can have sex with a person of the opposite sex, but their PREFRENCE (which makes it a choice) is for their own gender. While I agree the exposure and demands to accept the homosexual lifestyle are another agenda washing this country down the toilet at a record pace, I must disagree that raping a child has anything to do with sexual orientation.  As I stated in my original post, same sex encounters with children is nothing more than a sick, twisted, and dominace-fed desire that is further perverted in its attraction by same sex molestation.   My Christian contentions aside, I am trying my best to be objective out of respect for Stoner Student, who has never once pushed his agenda in my face.  I intend to continue that mutual respect as long as he does.  I am no more going to call pedophiles more likely to be gay than I am going to state people with silencers are more likely to want to get away with murdering someone.   While I abhor the "in your face, and you WILL tolerate it" mindset of homosexuality, I cannot idly agree that purported information from biased sources is another iron in the fire against an adult's decision to choose their lifestyle within accepted parameters.  While a homosexual's preference is obviously same gender sex, child molestation is another subject completely and has nothing to do with being interested in a bi-sexual or homosexual encounter.  It is about sick fantasies of degrading kids, and the fact the target is of the same gender is a simple methodology to make the experience as forbidden and perverse as possible.

SOrry, but once again, a male pedophile who preys on boys is either a homosexual or bisexual, both of which were classified as deviant behavior until the gay lobby started to pour money into politics.

But just because the AMA no longer classifies it as deviant behavior doesn't mean that it isn't. The AMA wanted to classify illegal handgun violence as a epidemic, and treat it as a disease. Whatever..... I stand by my beliefs that homosexuality and pedophillia go hand in hand when the victim is same sex.

Quoted: Quoted: They are less of a threat than a gun in your home, and I think I know how we all feel about that.  Keeping a watchful eye goes a long way on all fronts. Please don't do the "gun in the house" BS.  I was raised on a ranch in Texas and had a rifle and hunted when I was six years old.  I taught my three kids to respect guns and hunt when they were six.  To them, a gun was a tool that could put meat on the table and could save you butt if necessary.  Guns were not some rattle snake in the closet waiting to strike.  On the other hand, if you have other folks kids in the house and you have not met or vetted the parents, it could be a problem if the weapons are not secured. On the gay thing, I was a musician for many years and met many gays and had gay friends.  They didn't get in your face about their bent.  Sick people prey on children.  If you ever wondered if there is evil in the world, look no futher than the sexual predator.

It comes down to responsable parenting and being always on the guard. I wouldn't just let anybody [gay or hetero] around childern that I wasn't sure about....anymore than I would leave anything around them that might hurt them. Carly has been taught to respect weapons and to never touch any of the knives or firearms that she comes in contact with.

Quoted: SOrry, but once again, a male pedophile who preys on boys is either a homosexual or bisexual, both of which were classified as deviant behavior until the gay lobby started to pour money into politics. But just because the AMA no longer classifies it as deviant behavior doesn't mean that it isn't. The AMA wanted to classify illegal handgun violence as a epidemic, and treat it as a disease. Whatever..... I stand by my beliefs that homosexuality and pedophillia go hand in hand when the victim is same sex.

Okay, but what's your point? There are gay pedophiles and there are straight pedophiles and both are very much a bad thing.

Quoted: Quoted: SOrry, but once again, a male pedophile who preys on boys is either a homosexual or bisexual, both of which were classified as deviant behavior until the gay lobby started to pour money into politics. But just because the AMA no longer classifies it as deviant behavior doesn't mean that it isn't. The AMA wanted to classify illegal handgun violence as a epidemic, and treat it as a disease. Whatever..... I stand by my beliefs that homosexuality and pedophillia go hand in hand when the victim is same sex. Okay, but what's your point? There are gay pedophiles and there are straight pedophiles and both are very much a bad thing.

THe simple fact is that pedophilia is much more predominate in the gay community that it is in the hetrosexual community. (once again NAMBLA pops into mind)

So yes, gays pose a DIRECT threat to our children.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: SOrry, but once again, a male pedophile who preys on boys is either a homosexual or bisexual, both of which were classified as deviant behavior until the gay lobby started to pour money into politics. But just because the AMA no longer classifies it as deviant behavior doesn't mean that it isn't. The AMA wanted to classify illegal handgun violence as a epidemic, and treat it as a disease. Whatever..... I stand by my beliefs that homosexuality and pedophillia go hand in hand when the victim is same sex. Okay, but what's your point? There are gay pedophiles and there are straight pedophiles and both are very much a bad thing. THe simple fact is that pedophilia is much more predominate in the gay community that it is in the hetrosexual community. (once again NAMBLA pops into mind) So yes, gays pose a DIRECT threat to our children.

actually, most pedophiles are parents... who just happen to like fucking their sons and daughters.

having sex with a male child when you are a man does not make you bi or gay; the attraction to children results from the attraction to innocence/hairlessness in children, combined with a history of being sexually repressed such that you never really developed your sexual "age" beyond that of a child's.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: SOrry, but once again, a male pedophile who preys on boys is either a homosexual or bisexual, both of which were classified as deviant behavior until the gay lobby started to pour money into politics. But just because the AMA no longer classifies it as deviant behavior doesn't mean that it isn't. The AMA wanted to classify illegal handgun violence as a epidemic, and treat it as a disease. Whatever..... I stand by my beliefs that homosexuality and pedophillia go hand in hand when the victim is same sex. Okay, but what's your point? There are gay pedophiles and there are straight pedophiles and both are very much a bad thing. THe simple fact is that pedophilia is much more predominate in the gay community that it is in the hetrosexual community. (once again NAMBLA pops into mind) So yes, gays pose a DIRECT threat to our children.

If your contention is to be archived as empirical fact, please explain why the female to child female is disproportional.  

Not starting anything, my friend...  There is a part of me that agrees with you.  But if I am to be swayed, I need answers to certain relevant questions.  Why would male homosexuality and pedophilia have such a huge difference, statictically speaking, than female pedophilia?

In fact, gay women constitute almost twice the population of gay men.  For your statement to be accurate in its context, there would be twice the crime of molestation charges against women.  The numbers are not adding up, and I am simply curious to know if your opinion is just that--your opinion--or if you have information I am not privvy to.  

Again, not disagreeing with you, just asking for clarification.  

This lead Dr. Carole Jenny and her colleagues[14] to review 269 medical records of Denver-area children who were sexually abused by adults. Of the 50 male children, 37 (74%) were molested by a man who had been in a heterosexual relationship with the child’s relative. Three were molested by women, five were molested by both parents, and three others were molested by non-relatives. Only one perpetrator could be identified as being possibly homosexual in his adult behavior.

Lets break these numbers down.

37 molested by men alone.
5 molested by men and women.
3 molested by women.
5 unknown.

Whether you want to label someone as "heterosexual" or "homosexual" or simply "pedophile," the numbers make it clear that it is MEN that you have to worry about.  The labels are irrelevant.  

Well, I AM sick and tired of gays and liberals constantly trying to indoctrine our children in the schools and bombard the rest of us with the media.

Quoted: This lead Dr. Carole Jenny and her colleagues[14] to review 269 medical records of Denver-area children who were sexually abused by adults. Of the 50 male children, 37 (74%) were molested by a man who had been in a heterosexual relationship with the child’s relative. Three were molested by women, five were molested by both parents, and three others were molested by non-relatives. Only one perpetrator could be identified as being possibly homosexual in his adult behavior. Lets break these numbers down. 37 molested by men alone. 5 molested by men and women. 3 molested by women. 5 unknown. Whether you want to label someone as "heterosexual" or "homosexual" or simply "pedophile," the numbers make it clear that it is MEN that you have to worry about.  The labels are irrelevant.

Exactly.

PEDOPHILES are a threat to children, and while SOME of them may be gay, a lot of them are definitely straight.

I see no reason that being attracted to men should predispose a man to be a pedophile and molest a small boy any more than a man being attracted to women would predispose him to molest a small girl.

Ultimately, it is an EMPIRICAL question - not a philosophical or theoretical one - but the data are not sufifciently reliable to draw any conclusions.  There are undoubtedly HUGE amounts of molestation of children (espeically little girls) that go on behind closed doors, by family members, that are NEVER reported.  

Pedophilia and homosexuality are BOTH  threats to our children.And had ought to be dealt with as such.
And I'm SICK of all the pushing of the homo agenda.Keep it in the closest.
Anyone remember the poor boy in Arkansas,who was sexually tortured TO DEATH,by two homos in a "long term,committed relationship"?(nothing like dying with a frozen sausage up your ass,after a piss enema) Don't remember? I didn't think so!
This was about the same time that Matthew Shepard got his out in Wyoming.Media was all over it,yet REFUSED to cover the other case.Said it wasn't a "hate" crime. And you tell me there's no media agenda!  

Seems that homos want a little more than "equal" treatment.
Wasn't it george Orwell, "We all equal.Just some are more equal than others" ?

Quoted: I don't belive that Gays are a threat to my children as far as being predators any more than straight people are. They are a threat to the values that I want to instill in my children by trying to make normal something that is not normal and trying to force society to embrace it. Do your thing, just don't force me to hear about it.

+1

Keep it the Fuck outta my face and childrens faces.
This goes for the 'gay' books they are desperately trying to force in our schools

Quoted: Are Gays A Threat To Our Children?

Yes.

Quoted: Well, I AM sick and tired of gays and liberals constantly trying to indoctrine our children in the schools and bombard the rest of us with the media.

Are you still mad about desegregation too?  Just curious.

Quoted: This lead Dr. Carole Jenny and her colleagues[14] to review 269 medical records of Denver-area children who were sexually abused by adults. Of the 50 male children, 37 (74%) were molested by a man who had been in a heterosexual relationship with the child’s relative. Three were molested by women, five were molested by both parents, and three others were molested by non-relatives. Only one perpetrator could be identified as being possibly homosexual in his adult behavior. Lets break these numbers down. 37 molested by men alone. 5 molested by men and women. 3 molested by women. 5 unknown. Whether you want to label someone as "heterosexual" or "homosexual" or simply "pedophile," the numbers make it clear that it is MEN that you have to worry about.  The labels are irrelevant.

actually, there is the theory that women are just as likely to molest children, but:

1) noone would be the children
2) the children wouldn't say, as most guys I know wish they could have had an experience like that; most wouldn't want to be corn-cobbed.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: They are less of a threat than a gun in your home, and I think I know how we all feel about that.  Keeping a watchful eye goes a long way on all fronts. Please don't do the "gun in the house" BS.  I was raised on a ranch in Texas and had a rifle and hunted when I was six years old.  I taught my three kids to respect guns and hunt when they were six.  To them, a gun was a tool that could put meat on the table and could save you butt if necessary.  Guns were not some rattle snake in the closet waiting to strike.  On the other hand, if you have other folks kids in the house and you have not met or vetted the parents, it could be a problem if the weapons are not secured. On the gay thing, I was a musician for many years and met many gays and had gay friends.  They didn't get in your face about their bent.  Sick people prey on children.  If you ever wondered if there is evil in the world, look no futher than the sexual predator. I think you missed the point entirely.

Considering your other posts, I could care less what you think.

Quoted: Well, I AM sick and tired of gays and liberals constantly trying to indoctrine our children in the schools and bombard the rest of us with the media.

I entirely agree.  Our schools system is run by liberal special interest groups.

Gets the Popcorn, who has the beer?

Quoted: Quoted: Well, I AM sick and tired of gays and liberals constantly trying to indoctrine our children in the schools and bombard the rest of us with the media. Are you still mad about desegregation too?  Just curious.

Way to go!!  

When there are no facts to support your position, you can always play the race card!!

Quoted: actually, there is the theory that women are just as likely to molest children, but: 1) noone would be the children 2) the children wouldn't say, as most guys I know wish they could have had an experience like that; most wouldn't want to be corn-cobbed.

But its just a theory.  I haven't seen any proof and you haven't provided any.  Moreover, I find it unlikely because boys blab.  If I had gotten laid at 14 all of my friends would have heard of it, repeatedly, and it would have gotten back to my parents.  

Quoted: Quoted: Well, I AM sick and tired of gays and liberals constantly trying to indoctrine our children in the schools and bombard the rest of us with the media. Are you still mad about desegregation too?  Just curious.

Fuck you, cracker.

Quoted: This lead Dr. Carole Jenny and her colleagues[14] to review 269 medical records of Denver-area children who were sexually abused by adults. Of the 50 male children, 37 (74%) were molested by a man who had been in a heterosexual relationship with the child’s relative. Three were molested by women, five were molested by both parents, and three others were molested by non-relatives. Only one perpetrator could be identified as being possibly homosexual in his adult behavior. Lets break these numbers down. 37 molested by men alone. 5 molested by men and women. 3 molested by women. 5 unknown. Whether you want to label someone as "heterosexual" or "homosexual" or simply "pedophile," the numbers make it clear that it is MEN that you have to worry about.  The labels are irrelevant.

Unfortunately the labels have been made to be relevant. When a str8 man rapes a 11yr old girl he's a pedophile. When a gay man rapes an 11yr old boy he's a homosexual pedophile, and then used to sell the idea that most homosexuals are pedophiles. To me pedophiles are sick people who need to be kept away for children.

Quoted: Way to go!!   When there are no facts to support your position, you can always play the race card!!

LOL facts? I'm not the one playing chicken little over gays.

Are Gays A Threat To Our Children?

More so if you have sons than daughters...

Quoted: Quoted: This lead Dr. Carole Jenny and her colleagues[14] to review 269 medical records of Denver-area children who were sexually abused by adults. Of the 50 male children, 37 (74%) were molested by a man who had been in a heterosexual relationship with the child’s relative. Three were molested by women, five were molested by both parents, and three others were molested by non-relatives. Only one perpetrator could be identified as being possibly homosexual in his adult behavior. Lets break these numbers down. 37 molested by men alone. 5 molested by men and women. 3 molested by women. 5 unknown. Whether you want to label someone as "heterosexual" or "homosexual" or simply "pedophile," the numbers make it clear that it is MEN that you have to worry about.  The labels are irrelevant.   Unfortunately the labels have been made to be relevant. When a str8 man rapes a 11yr old girl he's a pedophile. When a gay man rapes an 11yr old boy he's a homosexual pedophile, and then used to sell the idea that most homosexuals are pedophiles. To me pedophiles are sick people who need to be kept away for children.

And when a white man kills a black man, it's automatically assumed and touted as racist.  What's your point?  Labels always exist in the eyes of the ignorant.  Exposing their folly furthers their agenda, not yours and not mine.

I don't know how old you are, but you have MUCH to learn about life and not allowing the purported ramblings of the uninformed to eat at you.  I'm white, Christian, single, and straight.  That makes ME the minority, not you, but you're the one complaining?

I was being objectionable as anyone can see from my posts, but I am beginning to wonder if my efforts were supporting a 14-year old with an ulterior agenda.  Be real, because life is real.  Not everything is so blown out of proportion it requires a national emergency, and homosexuals are no different.  Because I am Christian do you lump me with the pedophile priests?

I am beginning to question why I tried to approach this objectively - you can be your own worst enemy at times, especially by making mountains out of molehills.  What's your REAL agenda here, SS?  

Quoted: ........................................................ THe simple fact is that pedophilia is much more predominate in the gay community that it is in the hetrosexual community. (once again NAMBLA pops into mind) So yes, gays pose a DIRECT threat to our children.

100% in agreement with you....  

Report: Pedophilia more common among 'gays'
Research purports to reveal 'dark side' of homosexual culture
By Jon Dougherty
© 2002 WorldNetDaily.com


Child molestation and pedophilia occur far more commonly among homosexuals than among heterosexuals on a per capita basis, according to a new study.

"Overwhelming evidence supports the belief that homosexuality is a sexual deviancy often accompanied by disorders that have dire consequences for our culture," wrote Steve Baldwin in, "Child Molestation and the Homosexual Movement," soon to be published by the Regent University Law Review.

Baldwin is the executive director of the Council for National Policy in Washington, D.C.

"It is difficult to convey the dark side of the homosexual culture without appearing harsh," wrote Baldwin. "However, it is time to acknowledge that homosexual behavior threatens the foundation of Western civilization – the nuclear family."

Though the homosexual community and much of the media scoff at such accusations, Baldwin – who chaired the California Assembly's Education committee, where he fought against support for the homosexual agenda in the state's public schools – says in his report that homosexual activists' "efforts to target children both for their own sexual pleasure and to enlarge the homosexual movement" constitute an "unmistakable" attack on "the family unit."

Baldwin's research is substantiated in a recently completed body of work written by Dr. Judith Reisman, president of the Institute for Media Education and author of numerous authoritative books debunking sexual myths, including "Kinsey, Crimes & Consequences."

In her thesis – also written for the Regent University Law Review – Reisman cited psychologist Eugene Abel, whose research found that homosexuals "sexually molest young boys with an incidence that is occurring from five times greater than the molestation of girls. …"

Abel also found that non-incarcerated "child molesters admitted from 23.4 to 281.7 acts per offender … whose targets were males."

"The rate of homosexual versus heterosexual child sexual abuse is staggering," said Reisman, who was the principal investigator for an $800,000 Justice Department grant studying child pornography and violence. "Abel’s data of 150.2 boys abused per male homosexual offender finds no equal (yet) in heterosexual violations of 19.8 girls."

Jay Heavener, spokesman for PFLAG – Parents, Families and Friends of Lesbians and Gays, counters that federal crime data refute claims that homosexuals molest children at higher rates than heterosexuals.

"According to data from the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), this claim is false," he told WND by e-mail. "The gay and lesbian community calls into question any dubious research which flies in the face of our own experience."

And Gary Schoener, a clinical psychologist who has been diagnosing and treating clergy abuse for 28 years, told Salon.com, "There are far more heterosexual cases than homosexual."

In terms of sheer numbers, that may be true. But in terms of numbers of children abused per offender, homosexuals abuse with far greater frequency; and boys, research shows, are the much-preferred target.

Baldwin says evidence he examined disproves the assertion that child molestation is more prevalent among heterosexuals. Both he and Reisman found that media coverage of adult homosexual abuse of minors is also slanted.

"The National Lesbian and Gay Journalists Association (NLGJA) recently boasted that although homosexuals are less than two percent of the population, three-fourths of the people who decide the content of the front page of the New York Times are homosexual," Reisman wrote.

That one fact is especially noteworthy, experts point out, given the recent child sex scandals taking place within the American Catholic church.

A survey by WorldNetDaily of recent news reports found that rarely did the media describe priestly sexual abuse as "homosexual" or "gay" activity – even though the worst incidents involved male-to-male contact, and a spate of investigative reports has revealed that the Vatican is concerned about an upsurge of homosexuals in seminary schools throughout the world.

Gay press promotes sex with children

Baldwin says his research not only "confirms that homosexuals molest children at a rate vastly higher than heterosexuals," but it found that "the mainstream homosexual culture" even "commonly promotes sex with children."

"The editorial board of the leading pedophile academic journal, Paidika, is dominated by prominent homosexual scholars such as San Francisco State University professor John DeCecco, who happens to edit the Journal of Homosexuality," Baldwin wrote.

During his research, he also found:

The Journal of Homosexuality recently published a special double-issue entitled, "Male Intergenerational Intimacy," containing many articles portraying sex between men and minor boys as loving relationships. One article said parents should look upon the pedophile who loves their son "not as a rival or competitor, not as a theft of their property, but as a partner in the boy's upbringing, someone to be welcomed into their home."
In 1995 the homosexual magazine "Guide" said, "We can be proud that the gay movement has been home to the few voices who have had the courage to say out loud that children are naturally sexual" and "deserve the right to sexual expression with whoever they choose. …" The article went on to say: "Instead of fearing being labeled pedophiles, we must proudly proclaim that sex is good, including children's sexuality."
Larry Kramer, the founder of ACT-UP, a noted homosexual activist group, wrote in his book, "Report from the Holocaust: The Making of an AIDS Activist": "In those instances where children do have sex with their homosexual elders, be they teachers or anyone else, I submit that often, very often, the child desires the activity, and perhaps even solicits it."
In a study of advertisements in the influential homosexual newspaper, The Advocate, Reisman found ads for a "Penetrable Boy Doll … available in three provocative positions. She also found that the number of erotic boy images in each issue of The Advocate averaged 14.
Homosexual newspapers and travel publications advertise prominently for countries where boy prostitution is heavy, such as Burma, the Philippines, Sri Lanka and Thailand.
Homosexuality 'youth-oriented'?

"Research on the homosexual lifestyle confirms it is almost exclusively a youth-oriented culture," Baldwin wrote. "Very few gays exhibit preference for older men."

"Some admit to focus on teenage boys," he said, "some on prepubescent boys, and many cross over between categories."

A 1988 study detailed in Baldwin's report found that most pedophiles even consider themselves to be "gay." According to the study, "Archives of Sexual Behavior," some 86 percent of pedophiles described themselves as homosexual or bisexual. Also, the study found, the number of teenage male prostitutes who identify as homosexuals has risen from 10 percent to 60 percent in the past 15 years.

When asked what he thought about critics who attempt to debunk his research, Baldwin said the results speak for themselves.

"For them to say this theory is false is to call many of the homosexual movement's leaders liars," he said. "Most of my evidence comes right from the gay community."

"I managed to find enough evidence that my thesis – child molestation is an integral part of the homosexual movement – is a valid thesis," Baldwin told WorldNetDaily.

Other experts have also found a distinct pattern between child sex abusers and the incidence of homosexuality.

"How long can psychologists be in denial about the significance of the dark side, and ignore what it implies about the homosexual condition? And there's a matter of even greater concern. How long will psychologists eagerly throw open the door to gay life for every sexually confused teenager?" writes Joseph Nicolosi, Ph.D, on behalf of NARTH – the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality – a group that says it exists to "provide psychological understanding of the cause, treatment and behavior patterns associated with homosexuality, within the boundaries of a civil public dialogue."

The North American Man-Boy Love Association, or NAMBLA, is "a group that openly promotes sex with minor boys and claims that boy-lovers respond to the needs of the boys they love," Baldwin said in his report.

The group is often endorsed by "many of the homosexual movement's most prominent leaders," he said.

Advocacy moving to schools

Promotion of the "gay and lesbian lifestyle" is increasing in the nation's public schools.

A WND survey of homosexual-oriented websites found that almost every group has some sort of program to "educate" teachers, school administrators and other school employees about the homosexual lifestyle:

GLSEN – the Gay Lesbian and Straight Education Network – bills itself as "the largest national network of parents, students, educators and others" specifically formed to end "discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity/expression in K-12 schools. Two recent press released boasted of the Broward County (Fla.) school board approving GLSEN-sponsored "training for teachers."
A student activist working with GLSEN officials has managed to "give voice" recently to "gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered students" at California schools;
PFLAG has created a national campaign called, "From Our House to the Schoolhouse," distributing to school officials – among other materials – a booklet entitled, "Just the Facts About Sexual Orientation and Youth: A Primer For Principals, Educators, & School Personnel. [Editor's note: Readers need the Adobe PDF reader to open and read this file.]
Though most school-related programs are sold to administrators and parents as programs designed simply to end persecution of homosexuals and lesbians, none disclose what Baldwin says is compelling evidence that homosexuality is harmful to children.

"What … does the academic literature say about the relationship between homosexuality and child molestation? Quite a bit, actually," he wrote, quoting data compiled by the Family Research Institute: "Scientific studies confirm a strong pedophilic predisposition among homosexuals."

The institute, after reviewing more than 19 studies and peer-reviewed reports in a 1985 "Psychological Reports" article, found that homosexuals account for between 25 and 40 percent of all child molestation.

"But this number is low," Baldwin says, "due to the fact that many reporters will not report if a child molester is a homosexual, even if he knows that to be the case."

Gay-Affirming Psychologists Propose Redefining Child Sexual Abuse

www.narth.com/docs/canadian.html


The problem of pedophilia

www.narth.com/docs/pedophNEW.html

Pedophiles Argue Their Case
in the Journal of Homosexuality
www.narth.com/docs/arguecase.html

The Gay Report
www.narth.com/docs/reporton.html


The Gay Report was unique in that for the first time society was permitted a glimpse into the gay subculture, to see if the rumors, stories and hearsay that had persisted for so long were true. In many cases, it appears, they were.

Accusations of promiscuity had long been levelled at the gay community. As Jay and Young's research indicates, these fears were justified. According to the study, 35% of respondents admitted to having had 100 or more different sexual partners throughout their lives (p.249); 18% admitted to having had between seven and 60 such partners in the previous month alone (p. 248), and 18% to having had three or more in the previous week (p. 248). 38% said the longest relationship they had ever had did not last longer than a year (p. 340). For lesbians the average relationship lasted 38 months (p. 302).

In answer to the question "how often do you go home to have sex with someone you have just met?" a total of 50% answered under the "always," "very frequently" or "somewhat frequently category" (p. 251). Jay and Young sum up, "Clearly, then, the one-night stand is within the experience of an overwhelming majority of gay men" (p. 252).

Furthermore, 77% of respondents had taken part in "threesomes" at least once, while 59% had taken part in orgies or group sex (p. 587). 38% had partaken of sadomasochistic practices at least once and 23% had practiced urination in association with sex (p. 555). 24% admitted to having been paid for sex (p. 260).

Nor are gay leaders shy to publicize their feelings in this regard. In the classic gay work Gay Manifesto, author Carl Wittman said that sadomasochism, "when consensual can be described as a highly artistic endeavor, a ballet the constraints of which are the thresholds of pain and pleasure" (cited on p. 554). Celebrated gay poet Allen Ginsberg commented favorably on orgies that, "It's an important human experience to relate to yourself and others as a hunk of meat sometimes" (pgs. 589-590), and referred to the orgy as "one holy divine yoga of losing ego" (590).

Curiously, Jay and Young appear to have little notion that the above constitutes "promiscuity." According to them, "Where does one draw the line and say that certain people have been promiscuous, and others have not? What value judgment is implied by the term 'promiscuous'? These questions are impossible to answer because they depend on subjective attitudes" (p. 249).

They cite gay respondents as saying that, "Promiscuity is a heterosexual concept used to attack us...

Quoted: IMHO SOME are. Then again SOME non gays are a threat as well. I have had a few gay freinds over the years. None of them were in your face and frankly unless you knew them well you'd never have known it. Thats the way it should be. I don't need the lifestyle in my face 24x7 and you don't need mine in yours. mike

Well said.