Quoted: Want to hear something really funny? The fact that you said that fills me with an intense desire to buy DU rounds for every caliber I own.

Thanks for sharing your personal idiosyncrasies. There IS  NO use  for DU outside of a military application.

Quoted: Nope

+1

Quoted: That only happens during fission. Funny how radioactive stuff is always portrayed as glowing green...

Not 100% accurate.

I've moved hundreds of spent fuel bundles and offloaded our reactor enough to see the blue glow for a couple of weeks after we put the old fuel bundles in the spent fuel pool. With all the lights on the reactor deck turned off you could see it very well.

And we didn't have sustained fission in the spent fuel pool.

Quoted: Quoted: Want to hear something really funny? The fact that you said that fills me with an intense desire to buy DU rounds for every caliber I own. Thanks for sharing your personal idiosyncrasies. There IS  NO use  for DU outside of a military application.

That's an interesting statement, considering the company.  Then again, judging by the source...

Quoted: [ That's an interesting statement, considering the company.  Then again, judging by the source...

OK, so whats YOUR thoughts on its applications outside a military environment? You obviously disagree.

That's a big goddamn hole, and I bet the concrete chunks thrown around would tear people up inside.
I'd ask if they were effective, but I think that would violate OpSec.


DU for regular bullets would be stupid. You want the bullet to expend all energy inside the person, not keep going downrange.

Tag

Quoted: That's a big goddamn hole, and I bet the concrete chunks thrown around would tear people up inside. I'd ask if they were effective, but I think that would violate OpSec. DU for regular bullets would be stupid. You want the bullet to expend all energy inside the person, not keep going downrange.

As I said, it would probably fare better against body armor because of the increased mass and hardness.

Quoted: Quoted: [ That's an interesting statement, considering the company.  Then again, judging by the source... OK, so whats YOUR thoughts on its applications outside a military environment? You obviously disagree.

The fundamental disagreement is that just because it is useful only for military situations has absolutely no bearing on whether I give a shit if someone wants to have it or not.  You don't want to buy DU rounds?  Fine.  I don't see the point of it much either, but if he wants to get some for his AR, fine.  It's his money.

There's a lot of things I would like to have that are only suitable for military applications, but regulations and money say otherwise.

My statements are possibly an adverse reaction to seeing what appears to be an "I don't see a legitimate purpose for what you want, so I don't think you should have it." attitude.

Quoted: Not 100% accurate. I've moved hundreds of spent fuel bundles and offloaded our reactor enough to see the blue glow for a couple of weeks after we put the old fuel bundles in the spent fuel pool. With all the lights on the reactor deck turned off you could see it very well. And we didn't have sustained fission in the spent fuel pool.

Yeah, radioactivity produces a blue glow. Something about ionizing effects on air or some such. My dad explained it to me once.

Quoted: The fundamental disagreement is that just because it is useful only for military situations has absolutely no bearing on whether I give a shit if someone wants to have it or not.  You don't want to buy DU rounds?  Fine.  I don't see the point of it much either, but if he wants to get some for his AR, fine.  It's his money. There's a lot of things I would like to have that are only suitable for military applications, but regulations and money say otherwise. My statements are possibly an adverse reaction to seeing what appears to be an "I don't see a legitimate purpose for what you want, so I don't think you should have it." attitude.

It has no use in target shooting. It has no use in anything except destroying whatever is being shot at. The side effects make it something that should NOT have a wide distribution outside of a military application where it has some chance of being regulated and exposure controlled. Sorry, some things should NOT be available "just because you want it".

Quoted: That's a big goddamn hole, and I bet the concrete chunks thrown around would tear people up inside. I'd ask if they were effective, but I think that would violate OpSec. DU for regular bullets would be stupid. You want the bullet to expend all energy inside the person, not keep going downrange.

The over pressure made peoples brains come out of the top of their heads and thier skull peel up. really freaky looking stuff. People looked unhurt, well ecxept that thier brain was out.

Quoted: Quoted: Ive breathed in alot of DU dust, I assume I am gonna get cancer? I got it from running into houses right after tanks shot DU rounds into them. Tank rounds/dust from house/smell from blown up people is definitly the WORST smell ever. DU rounds smell so bad hitting houses, can anyone explain that??? I'd opine (as a former tank Company Commander) that tanks did not routinely fire DU into anything but hard targets. We used HEAT or MPAT during ODS, same as now. Basic Loads were adjusted according to the threat, and so we downloaded a lot of DU for HEAT when we considered MOUT/CQB support missions. What you smelt is the nitrites of explosives expanding in the atmosphere. A DU round into a house would merely whiz through. They did wizz right through, they were using sabots because they said heats wont arm at the ranges they were shooting into the houses at, think 30 feet. Picture of the holes: img72.imageshack.us/img72/6572/opspear708an.jpg

Is it just me, or do you see the pitted areas on the wall behind those holes?
On a side note, if nuclear glow is blue, what makes the green glow in night sites? Does it come from phosphorus?

Quoted: The over pressure made peoples brains come out of the top of their heads and thier skull peel up. really freaky looking stuff. People looked unhurt, well ecxept that thier brain was out.

Holy shit.

Quoted: On a side note, if nuclear glow is blue, what makes the green glow in night sites? Does it come from phosphorus?

Pretty sure the color comes from the glass, hence why they have night sights of other colors.

Although I'm really not the one to know. My dad ain't here, or I'd ask. I'm just a history major.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Tungsten: Density @ 293 K: 19.3 g/cm3 Lead: Density @ 293 K: 11.34 g/cm3 Uranium: Density @ 293 K: 18.95 g/cm3 Someone please explain? Why not just use Tungsten? The extra density of DU allows it to be more high speed and less low drag. Tungsten (except when really pure) is very brittle.  Uranium isn't so brittle. This means that the tungsten projectile would shatter into dust on impact; the DU projectile will only flatten out.

Not really.  W is not brittle if processed correctly.  WC IS brittle because it is a cermet, bonded by another metal.  This is why it is very hard and brittle, it is more like a ceramic than a metal.

The main problem with W is the processing.  It cannot be melted in any useable process because there are few things to make a mold with...and the quality would stink.  Instead, it is sintered, HIPed or MIMed to make the normal things that use relatively pure W, like lightbulb filaments, GTAW welding electrodes and the like.  In such application, it is no harder than a good medium carbon steel, Q&T.  Not exactly hard in my book.

I'm not so sure that DU would be a good bullet for 5.56.  Come on, what are we trying to shoot here?  5.56 already goes through most vests (not rated for rifle rounds), and car doors do nothing to impede it.  On a soft target, your frag/expansion would most likely drop to nill.  I don't expect to be shooting armored stuff with a 5.56, and if I was, it would most likely be a time to be running instead of gunning.  Might make a good tank buster round in a heavy enough caliber, but again...I don't think that 5.56 was ment to be a tank busting round.  Just a thought.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Ive breathed in alot of DU dust, I assume I am gonna get cancer? I got it from running into houses right after tanks shot DU rounds into them. Tank rounds/dust from house/smell from blown up people is definitly the WORST smell ever. DU rounds smell so bad hitting houses, can anyone explain that??? I'd opine (as a former tank Company Commander) that tanks did not routinely fire DU into anything but hard targets. We used HEAT or MPAT during ODS, same as now. Basic Loads were adjusted according to the threat, and so we downloaded a lot of DU for HEAT when we considered MOUT/CQB support missions. What you smelt is the nitrites of explosives expanding in the atmosphere. A DU round into a house would merely whiz through. They did wizz right through, they were using sabots because they said heats wont arm at the ranges they were shooting into the houses at, think 30 feet. Picture of the holes: img72.imageshack.us/img72/6572/opspear708an.jpg Is it just me, or do you see the pitted areas on the wall behind those holes? On a side note, if nuclear glow is blue, what makes the green glow in night sites? Does it come from phosphorus?

My understanding on the night sights and other glow in the dark products that don't require electricity or light charging is that there is tritium gas trapped inside, and its radiation causes the phosphorous to glow.  The phosphorous is available in various colors.

Is that a HUGE powder burn around them holes in the wall??  If so, that tank must have been preety close to the wall when firing them shots.  I wonder if the hole size had more to do with the muzzle blast as opposed to the sabot itself....same with the damage to the "targets".  

Okay, I asked my dad, since he's got the PhD and has worked with this stuff.


The famous "blue glow" is from Plutonium. When it ionizes the air, that's just the wavelength given off.

Tritium, used in night sites, glows green. So kc8ard, apparently you were right there for your basic night sites.

Most radioactive sources don't give off any light.

Hopefully I've remembered that right.

Quoted: Okay, I asked my dad, since he's got the PhD and has worked with this stuff. The famous "blue glow" is from Plutonium. When it ionizes the air, that's just the wavelength given off. Tritium, used in night sites, glows green. So kc8ard, apparently you were right there for your basic night sites. Most radioactive sources don't give off any light. Hopefully I've remembered that right.

If you are seeing a blue glow and it's not from a fission reaction under several meters of water.  You are being exposed to a HUGE dose of radiation likely from a criticality event.  Check this link out of Dr. Louis Slotin .  When I went through Nukes at EOD school, we saw film clips of him as he literally fell apart from a huge dose of radiation.

Quoted: Okay, I asked my dad, since he's got the PhD and has worked with this stuff. The famous "blue glow" is from Plutonium. When it ionizes the air, that's just the wavelength given off. Tritium, used in night sites, glows green. So kc8ard, apparently you were right there for your basic night sites. Most radioactive sources don't give off any light. Hopefully I've remembered that right.

Ah, I understand now. So it's just the tritium, not the tritium exciting anything else.

Quoted: Quoted: Okay, I asked my dad, since he's got the PhD and has worked with this stuff. The famous "blue glow" is from Plutonium. When it ionizes the air, that's just the wavelength given off. Tritium, used in night sites, glows green. So kc8ard, apparently you were right there for your basic night sites. Most radioactive sources don't give off any light. Hopefully I've remembered that right. Ah, I understand now. So it's just the tritium, not the tritium exciting anything else.

Wrong-O!  If you read the previous two posts about the blue glow, you would not have posted that.  Plutonium does NOT glow.  It is merely copper colored and warm to the touch.

Tritium does not glow either!  It is an isotope of hydrogen, and as such is a colorless, odorless gas that is lighter than air.  When it decays, it emits an electron (beta particle) that makes a colored phosphor painted on the inside of the sight glow by exciting it.  This is exactly the same way a TV set works, except the TV has an electron "gun" that produces the electrons.

Radioactive material does not glow in any way, shape, or form.  The blue light is emitted by the WATER due to the radiation.  Then that poor doctor mentioned above got dosed, he saw the blue light which actually CAME from the fluid IN his eyes.  The only other way for radioactive material to glow would be if the decay heat was enough to make it hot enough to glow, like an iron fireplace poker.

Once again:  Radioactive material does not glow solely due to radioactivity.

In reference to fla556guy (who I hope is no relation to tc556guy ), that is by far the best reason I have heard as to why DU is dumb for normal rifle rounds.  It simply doesn't fit the purpose, and would probably be more expensive than it is worth.  I doubt DU is useful for anything under 20mm since any target which needs DU probably won't be affected much by anything less than 20mm anyway.

And lastly, for tc556guy:  Target shooting is a "sporting purpose", DU is NOT for sporting purposes (neither is the RKBA).  It is intended for shooting man-made things with the intent of breaking them and killing the operators of them.  In addition to being a shitload of fun, target shooting is simply practice for doing the above.  Due to the obvious cost of DU ammo, I seriously doubt the use of it would be a big deal in the grand scheme of things.  Regulations aside, It would probably cost at least $5.00 per round for average calibers, so it ain't plinking ammo.  

Ball ammo is for pleasure, DU ammo is for business.

Availablility of DU ammo would not cause plagues, raining frogs, or falling skys.

ETA another one-liner about DU:  DU ammo is like a dirty bomb:  not really any more effective than the normal type, except for scaring the shit out of ignorant people.

Quoted: Quoted: Okay, I asked my dad, since he's got the PhD and has worked with this stuff. The famous "blue glow" is from Plutonium. When it ionizes the air, that's just the wavelength given off. Tritium, used in night sites, glows green. So kc8ard, apparently you were right there for your basic night sites. Most radioactive sources don't give off any light. Hopefully I've remembered that right. If you are seeing a blue glow and it's not from a fission reaction under several meters of water.  You are being exposed to a HUGE dose of radiation likely from a criticality event.  Check this link out of Dr. Louis Slotin .  When I went through Nukes at EOD school, we saw film clips of him as he literally fell apart from a huge dose of radiation.

Holy shit!  Here, hold my beer while I play with these huge MF chunks of Plutonium.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Okay, I asked my dad, since he's got the PhD and has worked with this stuff. The famous "blue glow" is from Plutonium. When it ionizes the air, that's just the wavelength given off. Tritium, used in night sites, glows green. So kc8ard, apparently you were right there for your basic night sites. Most radioactive sources don't give off any light. Hopefully I've remembered that right. If you are seeing a blue glow and it's not from a fission reaction under several meters of water.  You are being exposed to a HUGE dose of radiation likely from a criticality event.  Check this link out of Dr. Louis Slotin .  When I went through Nukes at EOD school, we saw film clips of him as he literally fell apart from a huge dose of radiation. Holy shit!  Here, hold my beer while I play with these huge MF chunks of Plutonium.

Oooh missed that one!  Criticality = fission!  PromptCritical = uncontrollable fission (but not detonation)

Quoted: And lastly, for tc556guy:  Target shooting is a "sporting purpose", DU is NOT for sporting purposes (neither is the RKBA).  It is intended for shooting man-made things with the intent of breaking them and killing the operators of them.  In addition to being a shitload of fun, target shooting is simply practice for doing the above.  Due to the obvious cost of DU ammo, I seriously doubt the use of it would be a big deal in the grand scheme of things.  Regulations aside, It would probably cost at least $5.00 per round for average calibers, so it ain't plinking ammo.   Ball ammo is for pleasure, DU ammo is for business. Availablility of DU ammo would not cause plagues, raining frogs, or falling skys. ETA another one-liner about DU:  DU ammo is like a dirty bomb:  not really any more effective than the normal type, except for scaring the shit out of ignorant people.

You more or less agreed with my poiint: there is no non-military applications for DU. I am well aware that it is for "business", and there isn't a need for that "business" outside of military applications.

There is a whole slew of health issues for DU ammo that are just becoming known. Considering that there is no purpose for DU outside of a military application, what is the point of introducing those health  and welfare issues into the general public arena because some brilliant  backwoods yokel  might want to go shoot up some old junker at the gravel pit. The "lets make DU generally accessible" argument makes as much sense as "lets make Agent Orange readily available to the public" would have made back in the 70s. Its bad enough that eventually we ( or our kids ) will       ( without a doubt ) have to go back to the Middle East and clean up all of the DU we've left there. Why spread the stuff far and wide here on our own soil?

Depleted uranium HAS use as counterweights for aircraft.  Being it is dense, it makes a much more efficient weight than even lead.

Counterweighting of control surfaces is important to achieve static balance, preventing control surface flutter.

Quoted: Quoted: And lastly, for tc556guy:  Target shooting is a "sporting purpose", DU is NOT for sporting purposes (neither is the RKBA).  It is intended for shooting man-made things with the intent of breaking them and killing the operators of them.  In addition to being a shitload of fun, target shooting is simply practice for doing the above.  Due to the obvious cost of DU ammo, I seriously doubt the use of it would be a big deal in the grand scheme of things.  Regulations aside, It would probably cost at least $5.00 per round for average calibers, so it ain't plinking ammo.   Ball ammo is for pleasure, DU ammo is for business. Availablility of DU ammo would not cause plagues, raining frogs, or falling skys. ETA another one-liner about DU:  DU ammo is like a dirty bomb:  not really any more effective than the normal type, except for scaring the shit out of ignorant people. You more or less agreed with my poiint: there is no non-military applications for DU. I am well aware that it is for "business", and there isn't a need for that "business" outside of military applications. There is a whole slew of health issues for DU ammo that are just becoming known. Considering that there is no purpose for DU outside of a military application, what is the point of introducing those health  and welfare issues into the general public arena because some brilliant  backwoods yokel  might want to go shoot up some old junker at the gravel pit. The "lets make DU generally accessible" argument makes as much sense as "lets make Agent Orange readily available to the public" would have made back in the 70s. Its bad enough that eventually we ( or our kids ) will       ( without a doubt ) have to go back to the Middle East and clean up all of the DU we've left there. Why spread the stuff far and wide here on our own soil?

Some folks would say the same thing about all guns and the fact that lead is also a toxic substance.  It is all a matter of degrees.

Also does "only suitable for military applications" mean that only the military should be allowed to have it?  Hummers?  Camo clothing not designed for hunters?  FMJ ammo?  Fighter jets?  .50 Cal rifles?  Armor piercing ammo?  Tracers?  Ammo cans?  Heavy body armor?  

Once again, DU ammo, even if readily available would be so expensive to produce, that it would not be sold or used in high enough quantities to make any significant impact.