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Posted: 1/18/2006 7:29:23 PM EDT
Tonight on PBS...Liberia "an uncivil war"
They had a group of kids that killed another kid. Then they ATE his heart!  And these people think we should have sent troops in? What a messed up place. Morons on one side and totally bought into the "democrats" will be there to take care of you syndrome on the other. Bush really screwed up on this one.  Just like Clinton did in Rwanda. That is one messed up country and to think, that country started out as a productive part of our economic trading partnership...to end up like it has.  |
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Posted: 1/18/2006 7:31:30 PM EDT
[#1]
Look at how the fight.
Damn we could take it over and make The ARCOM Republic. Who is up for a vacation |
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Posted: 1/18/2006 7:32:27 PM EDT
[#2]
Would the ARFCOM Republic have any kind of Arms laws?
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Posted: 1/18/2006 7:33:35 PM EDT
[#3]
can we call it the Confederate state of Africa? 
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Posted: 1/18/2006 7:33:42 PM EDT
[#4]
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Posted: 1/18/2006 7:35:44 PM EDT
[#5]
What was your thread about? Besides saying that you were watching it? |
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Posted: 1/18/2006 7:36:32 PM EDT
[#6]
Hard to be a confederacy with only one state. |
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Posted: 1/18/2006 7:38:33 PM EDT
[#7]
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Posted: 1/18/2006 7:40:54 PM EDT
[#8]
It was about 8 replies long, IIRC. G |
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Posted: 1/18/2006 8:14:48 PM EDT
[#9]
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Posted: 1/18/2006 8:17:27 PM EDT
[#10]
I think this will become the calling card for Iran. |
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Posted: 1/18/2006 8:18:58 PM EDT
[#11]
touche 
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Posted: 1/19/2006 3:49:35 AM EDT
[#12]
we have no business being in africa. let it burn then see what we can do with whatever is left.
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Posted: 1/19/2006 7:47:27 AM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 1/19/2006 12:38:14 PM EDT
[#14]
I am sure they would see it as a beachhead and drive in-land. |
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Posted: 1/19/2006 12:48:00 PM EDT
[#15]
 tell that to the Iroquois |
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Posted: 1/19/2006 2:10:59 PM EDT
[#16]
Liberia voted with the Americans almost every time when it came to UN votes. So in the UN, they were on our side. |
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Posted: 1/19/2006 2:13:30 PM EDT
[#17]
Minimum of three per person, plus half-off all guns and ammo on Independence Day. |
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Posted: 1/19/2006 2:14:16 PM EDT
[#18]
How was it that Bush screwed this up? |
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Posted: 1/19/2006 2:14:43 PM EDT
[#19]
Yep! That all adult males MUST bear and posess arms. What kind you have is up to you
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Posted: 1/19/2006 2:20:21 PM EDT
[#20]
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Posted: 1/19/2006 2:23:04 PM EDT
[#21]
... Come on now. Are you telling us that as a kid, you never ate another kid's heart? |
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Posted: 1/19/2006 2:36:53 PM EDT
[#22]
Yes. "All citizens shall be required to posses arms, and be properly skilled in the safe handeling and appropriate use of said arms". -K |
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Posted: 1/19/2006 2:54:10 PM EDT
[#23]
Come on, get with the program, everything is Bush's fault. Some non-functional country in Africa spins further into chaos, it must be the US President's fault, not their own, right?!? |
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Posted: 1/19/2006 2:58:27 PM EDT
[#24]
The History of Liberia....
Settlers from America The history of Liberia as a political entity begins with the arrival of the black American settlers — the Americo-Liberians, as they were to be known — who established a colony of “free men of color” on its shore in 1822 under the auspices of the American Colonization Society. The historical roots from which a majority of present-day Liberians derive their identity, however, are found in the varied traditions of the several tribal groups of indigenous Africans whom the settlers confronted in their struggle to gain a foothold in Africa and, later, extend their control into the interior. On July 26, 1847, the Americo-Liberians declared the independence of the Republic of Liberia. The settlers regarded the continent from which their forefathers had been taken as slaves as a "Promised Land", but they did not become reintegrated into an African society. Once in Africa, they referred to themselves as "Americans" and were recognized as such by tribal Africans and by British colonial authorities in neighboring Sierra Leone. The symbols of their state — its flag, motto, and seal — and the form of government that they chose reflected their American background and diaspora experience. President Edwin Barclay of Liberia (right), 1943 The religious practices, social customs and cultural standards of the Americo-Liberians had their roots in the antebellum American South. These ideals strongly coloured the attitudes of the settlers toward the indigenous African people. The new nation, as they perceived it, was coextensive with the settler community and with those Africans who were assimilated into it. Because of mutual mistrust and hostility between the "Americans" along the coast and the "Natives" of the interior, a recurrent theme in the country's subsequent history, therefore, was the usually successful attempt of the Americo-Liberian minority to dominate people whom they considered uncivilized and inferior. They named the land "Liberia," which in European languages and Latin means "Land of the Free". Stephen Allen Benson, President of Liberia 1856-1864 The founding of Liberia was privately sponsored by American religious and philanthropic groups, but the colony enjoyed the support and unofficial cooperation of the United States government. Liberia’s government, modeled after that of the United States, was democratic in structure, if not always in substance. After 1877 the True Whig Party monopolized political power in the country, and competition for office was usually contained within the party, whose nomination virtually ensured election. Two problems confronting successive administrations were pressure from neighboring colonial powers, Britain and France, and the threat of financial insolvency, both of which challenged the country’s sovereignty. Liberia retained its independence during the Scramble for Africa, but lost its claim to extensive territories that were annexed by Britain and France. Economic development was retarded by the decline of markets for Liberian goods in the late nineteenth century and by indebtedness on a series of loans, payments on which drained the economy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberia |
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Posted: 1/19/2006 6:00:51 PM EDT
[#25]
Come on...don't be daft. Bush could have sent in our forces to stop it when most of the population was begging for our intervention. There were two factions that were going at it, killing EVERYTHING they could hit. And most of the time, it was unaimed shots that were killing civilians. Even the dic...tator said he'd leave and stop the blood shed if Bush had some in to stablize the place. You koolaid drinking Bush robots should open your eyes. Clinton screwed up and allowed innocent life to be taken. Bush did the same thing with Liberia when he could have stopped it with a stroke of the pen and an order to our troops. Liberia WAS on our side and WAS a productive part of our history....we owed it to the innocent people to step in and do something. A lot of you don't have a CLUE what the Liberia people did for us, but you are willing to JUMP right in and attack anyone that knows a little more than you do. "Most" of the Liberian people needed our help and we let them down. With Taylor in power and Bush not doing anything about it, when most of the Liberians feel like they are cousins to the US, Bush allowed Alqueda to operate there. Get some brains guys! |
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Posted: 1/19/2006 6:09:41 PM EDT
[#26]
I'm talking before Taylor got into power. Liberia voted almost overwhelmingly in support of the US in UN votes. Liberia even voted for the US position during the Vietnam war. When most were against us. |
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Posted: 1/20/2006 10:57:43 AM EDT
[#27]
You think you know more than I do, but that's about it. This has been going on for decades, so get off your "blame Bush" crap. Your little koolaid remark says all that needs to be said about you. It's an old worn-out saying used by those who have no real facts. I didn't attack you, I asked you a question, to which you went on the defensive because you have no facts. Go ahead, tell us what the Liberian people have done for us. You really don't care, you are just using it as an excuse to bash Bush. If you think our troops could just go in there and stop it, you need an education on how things are done in Africa. Again, just exactly WHAT have the Liberian people done for us? You are the one who made the statement, so enlighten me. Oh, I got your koolaid dripping. |
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Posted: 1/20/2006 11:05:56 AM EDT
[#28]
Why the hell should we get involved in a civil war? The same ass wipes that bitch about us going to Afghanistan and Iraq in order to defend ourselves from the terror mongers are the ones bitching that we didn't get involved in some one elses civil war. Just like VN, we should stay out of this one.
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Posted: 1/21/2006 12:58:14 PM EDT
[#29]
Who gets to define "properly skilled"? 
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Posted: 1/21/2006 1:35:39 PM EDT
[#30]
Yes. If you want to own a gun, you have to have arms. Otherwise, you have to learn to shoot with your feet. Sheep |
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Posted: 1/21/2006 2:18:28 PM EDT
[#31]
 I didn't like Clinton either. Nixon screwed up, Ford screwed up, Carter screwed up, Reagan screwed up, Bush Sr. screwed up, Clinton screwed up and Bush put the final touches on something that you did get right....this took decades for this to end up the way it did. And it didn't take a blind man to see what was coming.  If you believe all you hear from our politicians, no matter who they are and support them with blind loyalty, you are a koolaid drinker. You got all defensive, because you are ignorant of facts. Open mouth insert foot. Ok smart ass... 1. During World War I, Liberia declared war on Germany, previously a major trading partner, in order to appease the U.S. As a consequence, Monrovia was shelled by a German U-boat, and the Liberian economy was crippled as a result of cessation of trade with Germany. 2. In the 1920s, the United States seized on this vulnerability to initiate the exploitation of one of Liberia's natural resources: rubber. (however, I believe with all the foreign aid we gave them, this was only an exploitation by a corporation, not our government.) The rapidly growing automobile industry was creating a massive world demand for rubber, the main component of tires, and the U.S. wanted to compete with Britain's near monopoly of the industry. The Firestone Tire and Rubber Company of Ohio, therefore, began negotiations to acquire a rubber plantation in Liberia. The result was an agreement, supported by the U.S. government, that clearly disadvantaged Liberia: Firestone would lease one million acres for 99 years at the annual rate of six cents per acre; any gold, diamonds, or other minerals discovered on the land would belong to Firestone; and Liberia would accept a $5 million loan from Firestone for a 40-year period with which to settle all outstanding foreign loans, in effect taking on new debt to pay off old debt. The company made huge profits and enriched some of the Liberian elite, thus ensuring their support for the venture. 3. The United States also saw in Liberia an opportunity to promote its military interests. During World War II, the U.S. built a base near Monrovia for refueling and maintaining U.S. military aircraft active in North Africa and Europe. At the height of the war, in 1943, U.S. president Franklin D. Roosevelt stopped in Liberia on his North African tour to visit U.S. troops. Liberia viewed his visit as a symbol of the strong relationship between the United States and Liberia, and as a confirmation that the U.S. would be a source of support and aid to Liberia. 4. The United States did, in fact, support Liberia with foreign aid -- because it had a specific interest in doing so. As World War II gave way to the Cold War, the U.S. viewed Liberia as an ideal post from which to fight the spread of communism through Africa. The U.S. signed a mutual defense pact with Liberia and built communications facilities in Liberia to handle diplomatic and intelligence traffic to and from Africa, to monitor broadcasts in the region, and to relay a Voice of America signal throughout the continent. Under President Kennedy, the U.S. also established Peace Corps and economic and military assistance programs. From 1962 to 1980, Liberia received $280 million in aid from the U.S., the greatest level of U.S. aid to any African country on a per capita basis at the time. In exchange for this aid, Liberia offered its land free of rent for U.S. facilities. Under Liberian president William V.S. Tubman, Liberia voted with the U.S. on most Cold War matters at the United Nations, supporting, for example, the U.S. in its position on Vietnam. This relationship enabled the U.S. to maintain a strong foothold in a region otherwise struggling to rid itself of colonial domination, as countries such as Guinea and Ghana fought for their independence from France and Britain. 5. The seemingly cozy relationship between the United States and Liberia began to falter under William R. Tolbert, who became president in 1971 when Tubman died. Promoting Liberia's political independence, Tolbert welcomed the Soviet, Chinese, and Cuban ambassadors to Liberia. He severed Liberia's ties with Israel during the Yom Kippur War in October 1973 that pitted Egypt and Syria against Israel, and he spoke out for recognition for national rights of the Palestinian people. He also renegotiated a better deal with Firestone and encouraged political and economic freedom. In 1978, U.S. president Jimmy Carter visited Liberia, after initially planning to fly over Liberia on his way to Nigeria. The fact that this was the first official visit by an American president to Liberia (FDR had made his stop simply to visit U.S. troops) may have been a sign that the U.S.-Liberia relationship was not quite as tight as the Liberians had thought. Cold War politics Whatever might have happened to the U.S. relationship with Tolbert became moot in April of 1980 when indigenous master sergeant Samuel K. Doe led 17 young soldiers in a coup in which they assassinated Tolbert, executed many of the Cabinet members, and imprisoned dozens of other government officials. Despite the violent way in which Doe came to power, the U.S. supported him, accepting him as many people in Liberia initially accepted him, as a leader of indigenous origin who could finally open up the democratic process in Liberia to the entire population, and who would put an end to the political dominance by the descendants of settlers. Doe quickly became an important Cold War ally, and Liberia served to protect important U.S. facilities and investments and to prevent the spread of so-called Soviet influences. In the first five years of Doe's rule, the U.S. poured $500 million into Liberia through direct and indirect assistance. In exchange, Doe did close to everything the U.S. wanted him to do. He granted the U.S. use of Liberia's ports to deploy a force trained to respond to security threats around the world. He closed the Libyan mission in Monrovia and reduced the staff of the Soviet Embassy. He also reestablished diplomatic relations with Israel. Supporting a bully In the meantime, however, Doe's government grew increasingly corrupt and repressive, banning political opposition and shutting down newspapers. Human rights violations were frequent. A portion of U.S. aid was suspected of landing in Doe's own pocket. Eventually the U.S. government, politically embarrassed to be supporting such a regime, convinced Doe to hold an election in 1985, and then accepted the clearly rigged results which made Doe the president of Liberia. U.S. Assistant Secretary of State for Africa Chester Crocker testified before Congress that the election was imperfect but that at least it was a movement toward democracy. He further justified his statement with the claim that, in any case, all African elections were known to be rigged at that time. (He's probably right!) Many Liberians and Americans alike in Liberia were outraged by the U.S. government's continued support for Doe. The U.S. House and Senate passed resolutions calling for an end to U.S. assistance, but the Reagan administration, still motivated by Cold War concerns, continued to supply aid. Liberians continued to hope that the U.S. government would step in and remove Doe, or at least force him to end his government's mistreatment of certain ethnic groups, mismanagement of funds, and political repression. But the U.S., despite its displeasure about Doe's behavior, hardly interfered, even when attacks on the opposition and on the Gio and Mano people intensified after a failed coup attempt by Doe's exiled former second-in-command Thomas Quiwonkpa. Liberians believed that the U.S. would save them from themselves. The U.S. looks away In 1989, the Cold War came to an end, and U.S. political interests in Liberia faded. That same year, Charles Taylor and his rebel forces invaded from the Ivory Coast and set off a bloody and destructive seven-year-long civil war in Liberia. As fighting between the rebels and the Liberian army intensified, Liberians kept hoping that the United States would step in, remove Doe, and broker a peace agreement. The U.S. did not remove Doe, but nor did it support him. Instead, it limited its involvement to merely evacuating U.S. citizens from Liberia in 1990. The U.S. encouraged mediation and peacekeeping by the Economic Community of West African States (ECOWAS), which ultimately worked with the United Nations and Charles Taylor to bring about a peace agreement, finally ending the war in 1997. A relationship unravels Today the U.S. provides some assistance to Liberia, not in direct aid to the Liberian government but rather in the form of humanitarian services (health care, education, social services) through the United Nations and non-governmental organizations for the Liberian people, who are beginning the long struggle to rebuild their lives and their war-ravaged country. But the amount of U.S. aid has fallen drastically since it peaked in the 1980s. The Peace Corps program no longer operates in Liberia for political and safety reasons. (And probably for good reasons. "They'll eat your heart out!") Taylor was elected president of Liberia in 1997 in an election monitored by the Economic Commission of West African States (ECOWAS) and by Jimmy Carter and former U.S. senator Paul Simon. Under Taylor, the violence and human rights violations have continued. The U.S has accused the Liberian government of contributing to a regional refugee crisis, creating instability in the region, and fueling the civil war in neighboring Sierra Leone by providing arms in exchange for diamonds mined under terrible conditions. Liberia, therefore, currently faces a UN-imposed ban on diamond exports, as well as a travel ban on senior Liberian officials and an arms embargo. To help or not to help In the span of 180 years, the relationship of the United States to Liberia has gone from one of parental nurturing to one of self-interested assistance to one of increasing disengagement. There are many views on whether the U.S. should have become more involved in the Liberian civil war, and how much assistance the U.S. should be providing to Liberia now. Some feel that the U.S. had a moral responsibility to prevent the massive destruction that took place in a country to whose creation it had been so instrumental. In this view, the U.S. should have intervened at the beginning of the war and, having not done so, should now at least be providing greater assistance to help promote a democratic system and stop the human rights abuses. (And I have to agree) Haiti, Bosnia, and Kosovo are examples of places in which the U.S. had minimal ties and yet offered significant postwar reconstruction assistance. Others feel that U.S. interests in Liberia are peripheral, and that Liberia's destiny is best left in its own citizens' hands, whatever the cultural ties and affinities between the two nations. They point to the disastrous 1993 U.S. mission in Somalia which led to unnecessary U.S. casualties. They point to the economic and social problems at home which require political attention and funds. In this globalized world in which countries, economies, and people are so connected, the question of the proper role of the United States in Liberia's past, present, and future is an increasingly complex one. - This is from just one article, I've read many. The Liberian people, except for those kids that ate the other kids heart, deserved better from us. And all you can do is get pissed because Bush and the others had a moral responsibility to do something and I brought it up. You didn't like it, because you support someone that you don't know, don't have a CLUE what they are doing behind your back and want to worship a person with your blinders on, because he makes you "feel" all warm and fuzzy. These elected officals of ours, have WAY more access to information than we do, and they sure do make some stupid, immoral decisions based on their own greed for power and for money. We don't elect statesmen anymore, most of the people we elect are more in it for themselves than for our country and our citizens. Am I jaded? Probably, but I have seen enough corruption in our political system and judicial system that it makes me sick. We have the best governmental system in the world, but it has been over-run with corruption and most Americans are willing to turn a blind eye to it, because they can still sit down and watch the tv, drink a beer and fall asleep in their lazy boy. And if you are in that category, then you just are.
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Posted: 1/21/2006 2:31:44 PM EDT
[#32]
You can't stop the "BUCK NAKED BRIGADE" !!!!!
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Posted: 1/21/2006 3:52:41 PM EDT
[#33]
Place severed head on table
 Place rifle butt on head for a make-shift butt rest Periodically spray head with raid to keep flys away
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Posted: 1/22/2006 3:14:13 PM EDT
[#34]
 Bring up the facts and they run like cockroaches hit by the light.
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Posted: 1/22/2006 3:21:21 PM EDT
[#35]
i saw this the other night. buck nakid brigade, some dress up in dresses, many wear wigs and special costumes, canibalism, general micky mouse, using large intestines as a rope to set up a roadblock.. if i hadna seen this i would have sworn it was something a crazy person had dreamed up... heart of darkness.. in spades... |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 4:57:25 PM EDT
[#36]
For the Hollywood version of why Liberia's all fucked up go rent/buy/borrow Lord of War
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Posted: 1/22/2006 5:01:04 PM EDT
[#37]
can't they just hire some mercenaries like those executive outcomes guys who did such a good job in sierra leone?
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