I've been thinking I did more and more in recent years  for a lot of reasons.
A present for Christmas was a dvd about the appalachian trail that inspired me to say yeah for certain and consider planning it, God willing, for maybe '07 or '08, if I never get back in the army.

So I'm readin about it online and sign up at an active message board about it, and 1 of the 1st topics I read is an older topic about guns, and I quickly realize that a lot of these people are granola liberal types. Of course I should have known that.
It wasn't the most anti gun topic I've read by any means, a few pro gun comments, but the overall tone was granola type. Typical rhetoric by people who don't ever"need" to defend themselves. "Especially not in rural areas".
I posted a reasonable comment about the unlikely but potential dangers in the trail section that's close to here in south western va.,, where the trail and ridge shares the woods with those nice and safe "meth addicts and their meth labs", a simple respectful warning about expecting the unexpected, but I was quickly schooled that anyone with a gun would be reported to the "next available" law enforcement officer.

Question I have is legally do "no guns permitted on trail" laws if they are laws, or rules, on a trail such as the appalachian  trail overrule the right to carry in a designated wilderness area where the trail shares areas where guns are legal?

here was the topic and our brief exchange at the end. Doesn't seem I'll last long with that moderator.

www.trailplace.com/portal/thread.php?id=1316&ignore=0&page=1


Regardless friction with these types in a matter of a few hours isn't a good sign.

You have to register to see your post.  There is another forum that I have book marked (somewhere, I'll have to find it) called blue blazes or some such (named for the trail markers).  They sound more open than what you are describing but still not pro-gun.

It is against the law in certain areas to carry a firearm but I have heard of several people who did it (one I know personally).  They all said that given the number of killings on the trail (there have been a few, not many) and that the trail passes through some areas with an increasing number of meth labs they would probably do so again although they all said they would try to go lighter next time too.  None pulled their guns and never did they feel threatened by wildlife  

Concealed was the operating word.  Most hikers hike mostly by themselves so unless you tell someone no one will know.  The guy I know used a small camera pouch on his hip belt with 550 cord pulls on the zipper to make it easier to open, especially with gloves.  He carried a S&W .38 snub and one speedloader for two legged vermin.  He highly recommended a stainless gun as you aren't going to get much of a chance to clean it and it will get wet.  He said he had the gun partially wrapped in a silicon rag to help keep moisture off and so that he could wipe the gun down.      

My Father in Law has hiked it 3 or 4 times.  He never carries a gun or cellphone/radio.

He's going back again this Spring.

He said there's a lot of young hippie types who smoke dope at night, college students etc..

Someon on the Survival forum did like 95 miles of it with his brother (who was doing the whole thing) recently and posted an AAR. Look it up.

wow the guy that runs that place is rabid anti gun and hates he president with a passion, go figure the is no tolerance of opposing views.

Ive never personally Hiked it . . . Ive hiked many trails though (most are just multiday) - I would carry a gun for sure . . .

On a side note: A good book to read (or listen to on audio cd) is "a walk in the woods" By bill bryson -

Its a true story of two guys who hiked the trail - They run into some hairy situations . . .

Anyways

just my 2 cents . . . .

Quoted: Ive never personally Hiked it . . . Ive hiked many trails though (most are just multiday) - I would carry a gun for sure . . . On a side note: A good book to read (or listen to on audio cd) is "a walk in the woods" By bill bryson - Its a true story of two guys who hiked the trail - They run into some hairy situations . . . Anyways just my 2 cents . . . .

that is a great book....all of Bryson's are good.

many bears in areas.. for that alone, its not a bad idea..

Just go hike Montana and Idaho! Carry whatever you want! Be prepared to stop a grizzly bear though...they took em off the endangered list!

I guarantee the scenery is better!

Quoted: Quoted: Ive never personally Hiked it . . . Ive hiked many trails though (most are just multiday) - I would carry a gun for sure . . . On a side note: A good book to read (or listen to on audio cd) is "a walk in the woods" By bill bryson - Its a true story of two guys who hiked the trail - They run into some hairy situations . . . Anyways just my 2 cents . . . . that is a great book....all of Bryson's are good.

YUP - Gotta love his sidekick "Katz" hah -

Go to whiteblaze.com, it's about hiking the AT. Also a good site is thebackpacker.com, there is a part with links to personal pages and someone named Al I think, has a really good site documenting his hike.

I laugh when I read posts from guys that need a camp tramp (that's a knife) for hiking, double bladed ax, and other accouterments. Nobody carries that stuff in the real hiking/backpacking world, it's just too dang heavy.

I've thought about doing a through hike myself. I don't think it would be practical to carry a gun, remember, you are hiking over 2000 miles. You aren't alone, there are a lot of other hikers, mostly granola types, doing the same thing. You are in more danger from wierd locals than eastern bears so you don't have to worry about that either.

Anyhoo, check those sites out. Good readin' if nothing else. If you decide to carry a gun maybe one of those titanium snubbies wouldn't be too heavy.

appreciate the sites posted, they might be better than this 1.
I've been back and forth with these anti gun people there the last 2 days and readin more there, they're as anti bush and anti war as anyone could be.
I'm thinkin I'd enjoy hiking the trail, but wouldn't enjoy much of the ignorant liberal granola company.

I would never take a long hike in the wilderness any more (Did as a scout many years ago...) without cell phone, GPS, AND a firearm with extra ammo.  Furthermore, my firearm would be a large caliber full sized auto.

My friend just completed a Northbound hike on the trail this summer (he tried a Southbound one back in '03, got caught in that bad blizzard only 104 miles from the end in GA and had to quit).  IIRC, he had his Taurus .38special in his pack the whole way wth just the 6 rounds in the cylinder.

Kharn

sweet.  this guy actually spelled it right!

The Wife and I hiked a section of the trail back in '98. The only defensive weapon I carried other than my pocket folder was my 5 D cell mag light. WAY too heavy to carry as illumanation on a long trail hike but it was VERY comforting to hold that heavy aluminum stick when we heard the a bear ambling around our campsite while we were in the tent. He may of still ate us, but at least I'd of given him one hell of a headache

I hope to hike the whole trail one day, and if I ever do get the chance to do a thru hike of the whole trail, I'll be carrying my G20.

echo6

The AT is a government operated/funded trail if I am not mistaken.

There are other trails that are operated and maintained by private groups like the Buckeye trail. I doubt they will be as anti gun as some of state/government operated trails because if they take a strong political side they risk pissing off the private landowners that have given them permission to run the trail through there property.

I live 20 miles as the crow flies from a section of the trail, as it goes through southwest va., and we're over in the beartown wilderness area the trail goes through a lot. I was telling those people on that at site who think the trail is so safe about all the meth that is made and dealt down in there but it doesn't register to them.
I was also in jr. high back in the early '80s when those thru hikers, a guy and that gal were hacked up at their camp site on a mountain top about 30 miles east of here. The guy who did got 20 years and is out now and back in pearisburg. I'm certain he's reformed.
I'd have a knife and a firearm.

Id hike the trail if I could do it with my M1A and a full combat load, all my gear in a large alice ruck and sleep undera shelter half every night.  That would be fun.

Quoted: I've thought about doing a through hike myself. I don't think it would be practical to carry a gun, remember, you are hiking over 2000 miles. You aren't alone, there are a lot of other hikers, mostly granola types, doing the same thing. You are in more danger from wierd locals than eastern bears so you don't have to worry about that either.

That's exactly why you should carry, do think any of those granola type hikers would come to your aid if Bubba and Junior decided to play "squeel like a pig" with you?

i hiked a lot of it in college.  there was a rape/murder on the Elk Park to Roan Mtn leg back in the late 70's -0 early 80's i believe.

there have been a few problems along the AT over the years - not like downtown or anything, but they happen.   we took some side routes off onto private areas we knew we could hike on w/o tresspassing.

if you choose to carry for your own reasons, conceal, keep quiet, blend in and don't start any trouble.  the trail comes with no guarantees.

Quoted: I live 20 miles as the crow flies from a section of the trail, as it goes through southwest va., and we're over in the beartown wilderness area the trail goes through a lot. I was telling those people on that at site who think the trail is so safe about all the meth that is made and dealt down in there but it doesn't register to them. I was also in jr. high back in the early '80s when those thru hikers, a guy and that gal were hacked up at their camp site on a mountain top about 30 miles east of here. The guy who did got 20 years and is out now and back in pearisburg. I'm certain he's reformed. I'd have a knife and a firearm.

Hey neighbor, I remember that. Do you remember about the same time another guy in VA killed two lesbian hikers? He hit on them, not knowing their sexual preferences, and they told him to get lost. He was a loser and a weirdo so he followed them. The next day he caught them having sex and he freaked out and shot them both.

It would be foolish to hike such a long trail and not be armed in some way.

Having said that, it would also be foolish to carry it in the open. If nobody knows they can't raise a fuss.

Quoted: I guarantee the scenery is better!

You would be wrong.

I got in on some of that action at that site.

That Wingfoot guy is certainly very Democrat.  He ruthlessly quashes any pro-republican views, yet smashes the hell out of Dubya at every opportunity.  What a tard.

I only registered there to make a couple points, and I'm gone.

Quoted: Quoted: I guarantee the scenery is better! You would be wrong.

You have glaciers and snow capped peaks in the Smokey Mountains? The Smokeys are pretty in the places that haven't been affected by acid rain the killing the trees and the acid rain causatory smog, but they ain't Idaho or Montana!

Ever been to Montana or Idaho?

Quoted: Id hike the trail if I could do it with my M1A and a full combat load, all my gear in a large alice ruck and sleep undera shelter half every night.  That would be fun.

A "full combat load" is not fun on a 20 mile road march.
Light Infantry is an oxymoron.

yeah I think that happened about 5 years ago, although I think he slashed their throats. It was classified as a hate crime because they were lesbians.

And yeah that wingfoot guy and his rants about bush in that "gw on the at trail" topic are hard for me to read, he claims to be a combat veteren also in that topic. Maybe he is though I don't know, his politics seem quite backwards for a veteren. I'll say this about him though, surprisingly he hasn't banned me yet. But I've just started on the politics.

If I'm heading somewhere more than a couple of hours from a road I take a gun; usually discreetly but available.   My feeling is that the social fabric keeps a lot of goofy behaviors inhibited.  Police might not be able to actually prevent crime but I do think they are keeping criminals sneaky at a minimum.  I couldn't imagine doing the AT unarmed.  It's very comforting to know you can deal with a wackjob if it comes to that.  The problem with the wilderness is that  there is nowhere to run to and no one to call.  You care completely on your own so I consider taking responsibility for my own safety to be a part of that.   I would recommend a mini-Glock since they don't rust and don't have to be clean to work.  Even a G29 is pretty light and small and has a lot of firepower.

Quoted: I would never take a long hike in the wilderness any more (Did as a scout many years ago...) without cell phone, GPS, AND a firearm with extra ammo.  Furthermore, my firearm would be a large caliber full sized auto.

 Cell phones are a waste of time in many areas yet today. They don't work in the areas that I normally hike in, so it stays in the truck. A GPS can be problematic if you're under tree canopy or in steep valleys.

I normally backpack alone in remote areas, so I carry a SIG 220 and one extra mag. If the dog is along I might throw a third mag in his pack.


As far as carrying on the AT, I'd just STFU, keep it in a handy pocket in the pack and do it anyway.


I'd have to add that I've read some pretty interesting gun threads on backpacker.com. I was actually quite surprised by the number of people over there that admit to hiking armed.

hey we have the "whites' in the east, the east's best answer to the west's mountains.

I agree about montana and idaho, I haven't been in the pacific northwest states of idaho, montana, oregon or washington, but I've been in the others. I've done some 14'ers in colorado and run and hiked in the wasatch range in utah, and climbed whitney in ca. it really is beautiful out west.
God willing I'd love to hike in idaho eventually, the frank church wilderness interests me a lot.

That said, the eastern appalachians are still very beautiful and the thing is to me it's a different type of scenery, equally beautiful in their way. I enjoy geography and mountains and that's 1 big reason I'd love to attempt the at, to tour the different ranges of the appalachians on foot.

Also the whites of new hampshire, while no higher than the smokies, are a lot more rugged and bigger, because the base of them is closer to sea level. Also mount washington in new hampshire has some of the most dangerous and coldest weather on "earth" literally.
I recall last winter when the east had a few really cold days it was - 100 some on the summit of mount washington.

my opinion a lot of people from out west, or the east for that matter, who don't know much about the whites underestimate them some. If you appreciate mountains and enjoy geography, the whites are an interesting range.
The adirondaks are no cakewalk either. Although the at doesn't go through them.

the whites in the photos, the at goes right over mount washington, don'tknow if it goes over all the presidential range though.

 





check out this site for a lot of awesome photos of the whites.
mountwashington.org/photojournal/index.php

now that guy banned me, my account isn't banned, it just doesn't access the forums. i hadn't posted anything different. What a puswad.  All I did was write I supported bush.
Those tolerant liberals.

on his resume it says he's also with the aclu, what a surprise

www.trailplace.com/portal/display.php?page=tour3

An email about being banned

quote

"No favorable coments about Bush are allowed. That is stated in the forum rules.

Admin"

so I read the rules, read green comments below

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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I guarantee the scenery is better! You would be wrong. You have glaciers and snow capped peaks in the Smokey Mountains? The Smokeys are pretty in the places that haven't been affected by acid rain the killing the trees and the acid rain causatory smog, but they ain't Idaho or Montana! Ever been to Montana or Idaho?

Yes... Born in Denver been all over the West the mountains are majestic but IMO not near as as beautiful Appalachians. I don't know why Westerners seem to think everyone should like what they like.

I don’t think you have seen much of the eastern mountains. You ever looked on the Shenandoah Valley from Skyline Drive, or Mount Rogers from the Highlands, Or Tellico from the Skyway, ect... The west ain’t got anything on that.

Acid rain has had little to no effect on the mountains that was wacko nonsense, notice how it has disappeared from news… there is insect damage that for years was blamed on acid rain. And that is not nearly as bad as the damage that routinely occurs due to fires in the West.

It is subjective… to each his own but the Western Mountains don’t do much for me, young and harsh… they vary from beautiful to hideous. I will take the Appalachians any day.

tag for later

Quoted: Quoted: Id hike the trail if I could do it with my M1A and a full combat load, all my gear in a large alice ruck and sleep undera shelter half every night.  That would be fun. A "full combat load" is not fun on a 20 mile road march. Light Infantry is an oxymoron.

Its really not fun when you end up with a tripod for a 240 and a bunch of ammo anong other things, when your ruck creaks every step you take and at the end of the day your rivets are popping out of the frame.  Mech is for pussies.

I hiked 1500 miles of the Appalachian trail in 1990 with my Dad (and have hiked another 4-500 miles of the trail since then).  We were southbound and two thru-hikers a few days ahead of us were murdered near Duncannon, PA.  The killer thought he could hide-out on the AT and stole their gear.  A bad idea since the trail is more like a very small town, just very narrow and long.  Many hikers know each other and recognize each others gear.  The guy was apprehended in a couple of days with the help of other hikers.

I was also charged by a black bear in MA.  This is VERY rare and when I made aggressive gestures the bear broke off its charge and fled into the woods.  Translation:  aggressive gestures = throwing my hands in the air and screaming "oh $#!t"  very loudly.

That said, in spite of my experiences I did not carry and probably would not carry a fire-arm on a thru-hike.  My reasons.

1.  It's ILLEGAL.  I carried in Indiana because I had a permit.  I do not carry now because I have not got a Missouri permit yet.  When I do I will carry again.  Many of the areas the AT passess through prohibit all firearms.  Many of the areas that allow firearms allow them only during certain seasons.  Carrying outside of hunting season is  a violation of game laws.  I understand it is better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6.  But in this case, I believe the risk is greater carrying than not.

2.  It is difficult to conceal.  While the suggestion about a camera case with a quick pull is the best I've heard.  Remember that this is not the solitary experience you imagine.  While during the day when you are hiking you will often be alone, you will probably be sharing shelters (unless you tent the whole way) with other hikers sometimes as many as 30-40 if you happen to meet a church or scout group.  If you are Northbound and leave during the most popular time, there may be over 100 people leaving Springer Mountain the same day as you.  Because of the extreme lack of privacy under such circumstances, it is difficult to keep your underwear concealed at all times.  People will know you are carrying.

3.  Firearms are typically heavy.  To successfully thru-hike you need to average about 20 miles a day.  Hikers burn 6 - 7,000 calories a day.  You begin to examine candy bars to see which ones have the highest calorie to weight ratio.  I knew guys who cut the handles off their toothbrushes to save weight.  

4.  The AT is one of the safest places in the country.  The last time I bothered to check, there had been less than 10 murders on the AT since the trail was opened.  If you look at the number of people who travel on the AT in a given year that is in an incredibly safe place.  Your most dangerous places are not in the deep woods, they are when you go into town and near roads on Friday nights.  Shelters and campsites near town attract some wackos.  If you simply move deeper into the woods you can avoid a great deal of problems.

5.  A final note.  If you choose to thru-hike you will find yourself in the best shape of your life and more attunded to your surroundings than you have ever been.  All of your senses adapt to the sounds and smells of the forest.  During the time Dad and I were hiking and the murderer had not been caught, Dad and I became VERY cautious.  I learned that I would ALWAYS hear, smell or see day-hikers and city folk before they were aware of me.  When we heard someone coming we simply disappeared into the brush off the trail until we were certain it was safe.  Obviously, this is more difficult if you are wearing the bright neon Gore-tex that is popular in some shops.  

Now, this advice does NOT apply to any other backpacking than thru-hiking.  I have also led groups of teenagers from church camps on hikes and rock-climbing trips.  On those trips I ALWAYS carried.  My reasons

1.  I was not just responsible for my safety but for  the safety of a bunch of other people's children.  These groups usually included 14-18 year old girls who as a breed seem to be a magnet for jerks & idiots.

2.  Since it was for a shorter time and I was staying in a tent, instead of shelters as on the AT, it was easier to conceal.  

3.  Kids these days are in such terrible shape that the weight of MY pack was not an issue.  I could carry 100lbs and still lead the way.

4.  Most of the places I traveled with the kids involved a considerable drive often through some questionable areas.

5.  I am no longer in as good a shape or as aware of my surroundings as I was on the AT.  Also, it is infinitely more diffcult for a bunch of teenagers to hide in the bushes than it is for two experienced woodsmen.   This greatly increases my chances of having to deal with a situation rather than avoiding it.

My two cents.

I've done the GA section, and I wish I had time to complete the whole thing.  

As for guns.  I didn't carry anything, but that was mostly because every ounce of weight counts, and I didn't need an extra pound or so for a pistol!

Do not, I repeat, do not bother with Trailplace.  Dan Bruce (Aka Wingfoot) is a friend of mine, but his political ideas are on the extreme side of left wing these days...he is also pretty distant from the Trail itself, not having done a thru-hike in about 12 or 13 years.  His site is dictatorial and strident...unfortunately, Dan's just gone off a bit in the past 7 years or so.

I thru-hiked in 1995 BTW.    My screen-name here was my trailname on the AT.  

There are two good forums I use to keep in touch, Sgt. Rock's Hiking HQ (Rock is a first sargeant in an Armored Cav regiment and is currently scheduled to rotate back to Iraq. )  The site is mostly populated with current and former servicepeople who also happen to like long-distance hiking.  

hikinghq.net/

Whiteblaze.net is the other site.  There are plenty of left wing weirdos there but there are a number of gun-toting conservatives as well.

GBoth sites are dedicated more toward a lightweight approach, lots of homemade alcohol stoves, homemade gear, lightweight tarps and hammock types there.  

At Whiteblaze pay especial attention to Baltimore Jack Tarlin, he's been on the trail every year for the past 10 years and his knowledge of the trail is extremely current...he is also libertarian minded and a buddy of mine.

Guns on the trail:

Speaking as a thru-hiker and as a gun owner....you don't need them. Its an awful lot of extra weight and extra care for something that you have virtually no chance of needing.  THe AT also passes through 14 different states and hundreds of different jurisdictions, acquiring legal authorization to carry a gun in all of those states would be frighteningly expensive at the least to impossible (New York and Massachusetts are almost guaranteed to refuse you.)  Plus there are two National Parks and a number of State Parks with absolute no-way, no-how regulations.

In the entire history of the trail there have been only a handful of murders, pretty much always carried out while the victims were asleep or otherwise helpless/unaware.  The incidence of violent crimes of all types on teh AT are WAAAAY below those found in your average small suburban or rural town.   Animal attacks are almost unheard of anymore.

Some other thoughts.  Any firearm you chose to carry would have to be small and concealable.  You would have to protect it from casual observation while also maintaining absolute control of it at all times, meaning it goes with you EVERYWHERE. That creates a pattern of suspicious behaviors that will invite further and closer observation, which means the things need sto be better concealed.  At that point it will be packed away som well that it will not be available when you need it.  The AT is also a salty, moist, sweaty environment, so regular maintenance will be critical to keeping down rust, even on a stainless steel firearm...that requires additional equipment to be carried or sent ahead and creates an additional challenge to keeping the gun covert.

From a strictly practical perspective, it's just not worth it.

Most of the hiker's defenseive needs are taken care of by the time they reach Virginia and take the form of superior awareness of surroundings (you can smell someone who doesn't belong well before you see them), superior footspeed, and numbers (few of us hike alone).  Over the course of my 6 month hike I never felt threatened by another person on the trail or in towns along the way, its just not part of the experience for 99.999% of hikers.  

If you want to talk about it though, drop me an e-mail I love to talk trail.

Quoted: Ive never personally Hiked it . . . Ive hiked many trails though (most are just multiday) - I would carry a gun for sure . . . On a side note: A good book to read (or listen to on audio cd) is "a walk in the woods" By bill bryson - Its a true story of two guys who hiked the trail - They run into some hairy situations . . . Anyways just my 2 cents . . . .

I beg to differ about the "true story" bit.  While Bryson was out there he was skipping around a lot and kept himself pretty seperate, and arrogantly so, from the community.  Its entertaining, but wildly exagerrated.

Quoted: many bears in areas.. for that alone, its not a bad idea..

Most hikers on the AT will never even SEE a bear let alone encounter one (except at the Bear Mountain State Park Zoo, where there are two or three bears in the cage. )

If you practice good food storage practices you'll never have a problem with a bear.

Quoted: yeah I think that happened about 5 years ago, although I think he slashed their throats. It was classified as a hate crime because they were lesbians. And yeah that wingfoot guy and his rants about bush in that "gw on the at trail" topic are hard for me to read, he claims to be a combat veteren also in that topic. Maybe he is though I don't know, his politics seem quite backwards for a veteren. I'll say this about him though, surprisingly he hasn't banned me yet. But I've just started on the politics.

Wingfoot served as a signalman in the first Haitian thing back in the early 1960's.  He later went on to become a civil engineer before checking out and spending several years of his life hiking the Appalachian Trail and writing guides about it.  He still writes the guides, but doesn't hike much anymore, relying instead on hikers and trail service providers to provide his information.   He was a great guy in 1995, but something went sideways on him between then and now.   I still call him up and talk to him maybe once a year or so, but that's it.

Part of the trail in Virginia passes through Shenendoah National Park, in Tennessee it passes through Smokey Mountains National Park which has a total ban on guns.  That aside I have hiked something around 250-300 miles and always had a gun on me.  It isn't that hard to hide a handgun.  Do what you are comfortable with.  If you want to take your chances and carry through anti-RKBA states and through national parks make sure you have your gun well concealed.

Honestly I think it is stupid to not carry a gun with you and I can't believe some people think it is wrong to carry a cell phone while on the trail.