User Panel
Posted: 12/18/2005 1:29:24 PM EDT
This blows, how come Ebay users in the Philippines can buy highly restricted SS190 armor piercing rounds but here in the US, we cant even post a stupid ar15 upper for sale. I"m not pissed that its legal in the Philippenes, thats fine...I just can believe that in the US, the asswipe Ebay police will delete any firearm related sale, even for stuff like stocks, barrels and other stuff.
WHISKEY TANGO FOXTROT!!! http://www.ebay.ph/viItem?ItemId=5839824082 |
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Um...think again : High stopping power: The Five-seveN® fires the 5.7x28mm SS190 Ball round which reliably penetrates Kevlar helmets and vests as well as CRISAT protection. http://www.impactguns.com/store/10700000.html |
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The term 'Armor Piercing' has absolutly NOTHING do to with a rounds a ability to penetrate soft body armor...NOTHING. It has to do with the materials the bullet is made of which enhance its ability to penetrate METAL armor. The SS190 has very similar construction to the SS109 (M855) bullet which the ATF has declared non-AP And in case anyone is interested the winning bid was $167 for 100 rounds |
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Ok, so let me get this straight, the SS190 ammo, which FN created specifically to penetrate body armor, Kevlar helmet @ 200yards as well as CRISAT armor & the ATF restrict ONLY to law enformement agencies...according to you:
...ok then |
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Nearly anything shot out of the end of an AR will blow chunks through IIIa soft body armor, which of course can stop pistol ammo. Rifles are not pistols, rounds that penetrate soft body armor are not armor piercing dispite their ability to pierce soft body armor.
Is the box-o-truths and ammo oracle news to you? |
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The SS190 has a steel penetrator and an aluminum core. AFAIK, it has been classified as AP by the ATF because it can be used in a handgun, ie the IOM/USG FiveseveN.
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Exactly, a 30-06 round will fuck up your day pretty much no matter what your wearing |
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Then please tell us why the ATF bans this ammo for civilian use? Maybe the ATF needs to go to the ammo-oracle too. |
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www.nraila.org/issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=172 |
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There seems to be some confusion here. The SS-190 is a steel penetrator with an aluminum core round designed to penetrate armor. The SS-192 is a lead core hollowpoint, which wasn't designed to penetrate armor, but can penetrate some soft armor. IIRC the -190 was banned simply because of its construction and its ability to be used in a handgun, ie the IOM/USG. The -192 was voluntarily restricted by FN after some drunk was arrested with an IOM loaded with -192s was arrested in CT. The -195LF(lead free) duplicates the ballistics of the -192, is not restricted in anyway. However, it will only be produced in Belgium. The -196, -197 will be produced by Fiocchi USA in the near future. |
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Did you read your own link?
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Do you read what you quote? Let me get you a snippet of what you posted" "FN`s website makes that statement only with regard to "Five-seveN pistols and SS190 round"4 (Emphases in the original.) In boldface type, FN clearly specifies that its statement applies to only the SS190 variety of 5.7mm ammunition, which under federal law is not legal to manufacture or import for sale to the public. You're confusing the SS192, SS195LF SS196 & SS197 rounds which NO ONE has ever claimed to be amour piercing....BUT the SS190 ammo is under federal law is not legal to manufacture or import for sale to the public. |
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The 5.7 x 28 mm ammunition family
The SS190 Standard Ball Round The L191 Tracer Round : visible trace from 20 m to over 200 m. Trajectory matches Ball Round. The Sb 193 Subsonic Round : for use with sound suppressor. The SS192 Soft Round : reduces backstop damage. http://www.fnherstal.com/html/Index.htm |
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Yep, that's the standard round, but it is not ball ammo as you and I would think of it. It is a steel penetrator with an Al core. It has been classified as AP by the BATF. |
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Back on topic, I think this is proof that Ebay might be motivated by their fear of lawsuits more than their hatred of guns and gun-related items.
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BAH! I dont see what the big deal is, I know how to make AP ammo at home. All you need is a few web sites that sell Metals like Tungsten and What-not in rod form. Ya see then what you do is you take ^NNZ $NVVVe% 6^J#@D And then You &ut ir Th3 %(dji Then with your Dermel you Tha4u3 43n%3 11nweebn awMrek 3$% mnCMdj Boxer cartridge and then you EN#%h5 39 nffWEmn3 35nasnn35la; TH3n there yo* have it instant AP! It's so easy a 5 year old could do it!!
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I think the combination of lawsuits and various state laws is the main problem. |
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... thanks, I was just getting to type this |
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Oh boy here we go again . Ok, if you dont believe me, then maybe you'll believe the ATF. Look at the bottom, you'll see that THEY refer to SS190 as [AP] or armor-piercing and therefore restricted to Law Enforcement. OK? They, no me, not FN, they label it like this: SS190 - Armor piercing (AP) All other ammo used is NOT ; such as SS192, SS196, SS195LF etc..etc. BUT SS190 IS restricted to Law Enforcement since its AP. www.atf.gov/firearms/firearmstech/fabriquen.htm Now can we please put this behind us? |
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I am going to sell a picture of my ar15 and include all of the terms that anti gunners piss their pants when they hear. I am going to list it in the firearms parts category. If this gets banned, it will be an example to other arfcommers to stop using ebay until they get their shit together and take away these unnecesesary rules. Maybe ill make a thread and place bets on how fast it gets taken off.
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Thats the document I pulled the definition of AP from. Does the round meet either of the 2 criteria: 1. a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or 2. a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile. Doesnt seem to. I'd be interested to know if the ATF has ever made a ruling on SS190 specifically (That doc was about the SS196 |
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Let me know how that works out. |
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If the core is steel and Al, the bulk being Al, it stands to reason this definition is met. |
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Wow...I didnt know that the ATF doesnt consider 30-06 AP to be 'armor piercing.'
www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/legal/armor.htm
I dont see the SS190 mentioned on this list |
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