Just food for thought

Statistics Suggest Race Not a Factor in Katrina Deaths
By Nathan Burchfiel
CNSNews.com Correspondent
December 14, 2005

(CNSNews.com) - Statistics released by the Louisiana Department of Health and Hospitals suggest that fewer than half of the victims of Hurricane Katrina were black, and that whites died at the highest rate of all races in New Orleans.

Liberals in the aftermath of the storm were quick to allege that the Bush administration delayed its response to the catastrophe because most of the victims were black.

Damu Smith, founder of the National Black Environmental Justice Network, in September said that the federal government "ignored us, they forgot about us ... because we look like we look."

Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan in October said that the Federal Emergency Management Agency wasn't fit to help the storm's victims because "there are not enough blacks high up in FEMA" and added that, "certainly the Red Cross is the same."

Rapper Kanye West used his time on NBC's telethon for the hurricane victims to charge that, "George Bush doesn't care about black people."

But the state's demographic information suggests that whites in New Orleans died at a higher rate than minorities. According to the 2000 census, whites make up 28 percent of the city's population, but the Louisiana Department of Health and Hospitals indicates that whites constitute 36.6 percent of the storm's fatalities in the city.

African-Americans make up 67.25 percent of the population and 59.1 percent of the deceased. Other minorities constitute approximately 5 percent of the population and represented 4.3 percent of the storm's fatalities.

Overall for the state, 658 bodies have been identified. Forty-seven percent were African-American and 42 percent were Caucasian. The remaining bodies were either non-black minorities or undetermined.

An additional 247 victims have not been identified, so their demographic information has not been released.

The data showed that the majority of Katrina's victims lived in the Orleans parish. The nearby St. Bernard and Jefferson parishes had 91 and 25 victims, respectively.

The storm also did not discriminate based on gender. Fifty percent of the victims were male and 49 percent were female, with 1 percent being undetermined.

Calls requesting comment from Damu Smith and the Nation of Islam were not returned Wednesday.

No surprise to me.

"Overall for the state, 658 bodies have been identified. Forty-seven percent were African-American and 42 percent were Caucasian. The remaining bodies were either non-black minorities or undetermined."

i.e. most of the people killed were black

therefore Bush hates black people and killed them with the halliburton hurricane machine.

White people went in and painted all the dead black people so you would THINK more whites died.

It's all Bush's fault.

Go figure.

I wonder how many of those dead whites were murdered in the ensuing lawlessness and violence.

Bush hates everybody!  Including Children!!!

Quoted: Bush hates everybody!  Including Children!!!

Who doesnt hate children

Quoted: (CNSNews.com) - Statistics released by the Louisiana Department of Health and Hospitals suggest that fewer than half of the victims of Hurricane Katrina were black, and that whites died at the highest rate of all races in New Orleans.

Fair enough.

But the state's demographic information suggests that whites in New Orleans died at a higher rate than minorities. According to the 2000 census, whites make up 28 percent of the city's population, but the Louisiana Department of Health and Hospitals indicates that whites constitute 36.6 percent of the storm's fatalities in the city.

African-Americans make up 67.25 percent of the population and 59.1 percent of the deceased. Other minorities constitute approximately 5 percent of the population and represented 4.3 percent of the storm's fatalities.

Uh....

Overall for the state, 658 bodies have been identified. Forty-seven percent were African-American and 42 percent were Caucasian. The remaining bodies were either non-black minorities or undetermined.

Why is that I find myself confused by the title of the thread?

Maybe he means population to death ratio.

Wait a second this shit maks no sence they say whites made up a higher p[recentage of the deaths from the storm in NO, but then show these stats

36.6 percent of the storm's fatalities in the city were white
59.1 percent of the deceased were black.

So if over 50% of the dead in the city were BLACK, then the entire premis of the artical is flawed is it not.

I understand that whites are a smaller percentage of the over all population in NO, but when you count the bodies if more people whoidie are black then you can't say regardless of the overall population make up that more whites died then blacks.

The over all percentage of the population has nothing to do with it. More whites did not die then blacks.

Quoted: But the state's demographic information suggests that whites in New Orleans died at a higher rate than minorities. whites make up 28 percent of the city's population, whites constitute 36.6 percent of the storm's fatalities in the city. African-Americans make up 67.25 percent of the population and 59.1 percent of the deceased. Other minorities constitute approximately 5 percent of the population and represented 4.3 percent of the storm's fatalities. Uh.... Overall for the state, 658 bodies have been identified. Forty-seven percent were African-American and 42 percent were Caucasian. The remaining bodies were either non-black minorities or undetermined. Why is that I find myself confused by the title of the thread?

Do you understand percentages?

Those stats don't represent anything other than who was on high ground and who was on low ground when the flooding started....and who decided to stick it out without packing heat.

Quoted: Why is that I find myself confused by the title of the thread?

Whites died in much higher proportions in relation to there proportion of the racial mix of the city. Pretty much destroying the claim the government discriminated against blacks in any way during hurricane relief.

Quoted: The over all percentage of the population has nothing to do with it.

Malarkey

Sure it does you cannot get any meaningful measure of true impacts on demographic groups without taking in to account the initial mix.

With 247 bodies unidentifed the number could change enough to alter the results.  

I tried to do the math on this but they mix state and city numbers in the report so I couldn't get anything meaningful.

Quoted: "Overall for the state, 658 bodies have been identified. Forty-seven percent were African-American and 42 percent were Caucasian. The remaining bodies were either non-black minorities or undetermined." i.e. most of the people killed were black therefore Bush hates black people and killed them with the halliburton hurricane machine.

New Orleans Census Data

Take a look at that and the figures take a new turn.  Whites died at a MUCH HIGHER rate than blacks.  Totals are misleading and the news will report them however they want dumb Americans to hear it.  

Whites dies at a rate 1.5 times what they seemingly should have.  Blacks died at a rate just 70% of what would be expected.  I'm sure we'll hear precious little about this accurate view of the information.

Quoted: Wait a second this shit maks no sence they say whites made up a higher p[recentage of the deaths from the storm in NO, but then show these stats 36.6 percent of the storm's fatalities in the city were white 59.1 percent of the deceased were black. So if over 50% of the dead in the city were BLACK, then the entire premis of the artical is flawed is it not. I understand that whites are a smaller percentage of the over all population in NO, but when you count the bodies if more people whoidie are black then you can't say regardless of the overall population make up that more whites died then blacks. The over all percentage of the population has nothing to do with it. More whites did not die then blacks.

You are confusing percentages and total numbers.

They are saying that "whites" died at a higher perctange than they represent in the overall population. Meaning African-Amercian death, though more numerous, were actually at a lower percentage than their representation in the overall population.

They are dealing with the death rate by race vs total poulation by race, not simply the percentage of deaths by race.

Quoted: Quoted: But the state's demographic information suggests that whites in New Orleans died at a higher rate than minorities. whites make up 28 percent of the city's population, whites constitute 36.6 percent of the storm's fatalities in the city. African-Americans make up 67.25 percent of the population and 59.1 percent of the deceased. Other minorities constitute approximately 5 percent of the population and represented 4.3 percent of the storm's fatalities. Uh.... Overall for the state, 658 bodies have been identified. Forty-seven percent were African-American and 42 percent were Caucasian. The remaining bodies were either non-black minorities or undetermined. Why is that I find myself confused by the title of the thread? Due you understand percentages?

It's not a question of understanding the percentages, which I do. It's question of the wording.

Statistics released by the Louisiana Department of Health and Hospitals suggest that fewer than half of the victims of Hurricane Katrina were black, and that whites died at the highest rate of all races in New Orleans

The lead implies that less blacks died in Katrina then any other group and that whites died at a higher rate compared to their overall percentage of the total population. It's looking at the issue with two different positions.

Overall more blacks died then any other race not taking into account the percentage of the cities population that blacks make up.  Thats a hard fact.

The only way to say that more wites died was to look at the number that died compared to the percentage that whites make up of the total population of the city.

But that doesn't change the fact that the hard numbers show that more blacks died then whites regardless of the percent that each group makes up of the total population.

Ok, I get it now. And OLY-M4gery: I understand percentages just fine. It's statistics that I have an apparent problem with.

Quoted: Quoted: Why is that I find myself confused by the title of the thread? Whites died in much higher proportions in relation to there proportion of the racial mix of the city. Pretty much destroying the claim the government discriminated against blacks in any way during hurricane relief.

No because regardless of the number based on percentage of the make up of the group with in the total population more blacks still died compared to whites.

Actually, who cares how you do the math?  There was no conspiracy.  Bush wasn't hoping blacks would die in huge numbers.  There were no bombs planted on the levees.  Those are the real stories, that there are people selling that crap, news peole distributing it eagerly, and dumbasses buying it.

Quoted: Quoted: Wait a second this shit maks no sence they say whites made up a higher p[recentage of the deaths from the storm in NO, but then show these stats 36.6 percent of the storm's fatalities in the city were white 59.1 percent of the deceased were black. So if over 50% of the dead in the city were BLACK, then the entire premis of the artical is flawed is it not. I understand that whites are a smaller percentage of the over all population in NO, but when you count the bodies if more people whoidie are black then you can't say regardless of the overall population make up that more whites died then blacks. The over all percentage of the population has nothing to do with it. More whites did not die then blacks. You are confusing percentages and total numbers. They are saying that "whites" died at a higher perctange than they represent in the overall population. Meaning African-Amercian death, though more numerous, were actually at a lower percentage than their representation in the overall population. They are dealing with the death rate by race vs total poulation by race, not simply the percentage of deaths by race.

I get ya, but it was the wording of the lead that made me go WTF? The whole "Statistics released by the Louisiana Department of Health and Hospitals suggest that fewer than half of the victims of Hurricane Katrina were black" but then give a state that sayd of the total deaths that 59.1 of the deaths were black. So thats where my WTF came from. Piss poor writing IMO.

Quoted: Quoted: Why is that I find myself confused by the title of the thread? Whites died in much higher proportions in relation to there proportion of the racial mix of the city. Pretty much destroying the claim the government discriminated against blacks in any way during hurricane relief.

Not yet it doesn't.  The artical leaves out important info.  How many died in NOLA? How many of the unidentified bodies were from NOLA?

If most of the unidentified bodies are from NOLA and are black the percentage of dead blacks could be disproportionate.

We won't know until all the data is in.

Quoted: Quoted: Wait a second this shit maks no sence they say whites made up a higher p[recentage of the deaths from the storm in NO, but then show these stats 36.6 percent of the storm's fatalities in the city were white 59.1 percent of the deceased were black. So if over 50% of the dead in the city were BLACK, then the entire premis of the artical is flawed is it not. I understand that whites are a smaller percentage of the over all population in NO, but when you count the bodies if more people whoidie are black then you can't say regardless of the overall population make up that more whites died then blacks. The over all percentage of the population has nothing to do with it. More whites did not die then blacks. You are confusing percentages and total numbers. They are saying that "whites" died at a higher perctange than they represent in the overall population. Meaning African-Amercian death, though more numerous, were actually at a lower percentage than their representation in the overall population. They are dealing with the death rate by race vs total poulation by race, not simply the percentage of deaths by race.

Yes exactly, the death rate for whites was demonstrably higher than for blacks. Exploding the myth there was discrimination against blacks in any way during hurricane reliefor the Government was out to kill blacks or did care about blacks, ect….

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why is that I find myself confused by the title of the thread? Whites died in much higher proportions in relation to there proportion of the racial mix of the city. Pretty much destroying the claim the government discriminated against blacks in any way during hurricane relief. No because regardless of the number based on percentage of the make up of the group with in the total population more blacks still died compared to whites.

NO… it is undeniable whites had a higher death rates. You CANNOT ignore the initial mix when looking at final numbers IF you want to come to meaningful conclusions.

Proving that Kanye West doesn't give a fuck about White People.

Bush hates white people?!?!

"Lies,damned lies and statistics!"  If you have already reached your conclusions, it isn't hard to obtain numbers to back them up.

Wonder what percentage of looters were black?

French Quarter + Katrina = Lots of Dead Blacks & a Few Unknowns

Louisianna + Katrina = Lots of Dead Blacks & Whites

Quoted: "Lies,damned lies and statistics!"  If you have already reached your conclusions, it isn't hard to obtain numbers to back them up.

It is also easy to ignore the truth when it smacks you in the face… these are simple numbers with a clear meaning… that there was NO Government discrimination against blacks where the hurricane was concerned.

Quoted: French Quarter + Katrina = Lots of Dead Blacks Louisianna + Katrina = Lots of Dead Blacks & Whites

East Texas + Western Louisiana + Rita = Lots of destroyed shit and a lot of people who go tthe fuck out of the way.

Quoted: French Quarter + Katrina = Lots of Dead Blacks Louisianna + Katrina = Lots of Dead Blacks & Whites

Uh No.

The French Quarter did not flood to any great extent and virtually no one died there.

I guess Halliburton better recalibrate the machine then.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Wait a second this shit maks no sence they say whites made up a higher p[recentage of the deaths from the storm in NO, but then show these stats 36.6 percent of the storm's fatalities in the city were white 59.1 percent of the deceased were black. So if over 50% of the dead in the city were BLACK, then the entire premis of the artical is flawed is it not. I understand that whites are a smaller percentage of the over all population in NO, but when you count the bodies if more people whoidie are black then you can't say regardless of the overall population make up that more whites died then blacks. The over all percentage of the population has nothing to do with it. More whites did not die then blacks. You are confusing percentages and total numbers. They are saying that "whites" died at a higher perctange than they represent in the overall population. Meaning African-Amercian death, though more numerous, were actually at a lower percentage than their representation in the overall population. They are dealing with the death rate by race vs total poulation by race, not simply the percentage of deaths by race. Yes exactly, the death rate for whites was demonstrably higher than for blacks. Exploding the myth there was discrimination against blacks in any way during hurricane reliefor the Government was out to kill blacks or did care about blacks, ect….

I'm confusing nothing, lets look at how the artical starts out shall we.

Statistics released by the Louisiana Department of Health and Hospitals suggest that fewer than half of the victims of Hurricane Katrina were black,

Ok here this reads that blacks made up less then half of the total body count.

and that whites died at the highest rate of all races in New Orleans.

This takes into account not the total population of the city, but only the population of the city that is white.

So we have an over all decleration that of all deaths, blacks made up less then half, yet the stats show that that is not true, that of all deaths, more blacks died then any other group.

So whites dieing at a higher rate then blacks based on the percentage of each groups representation in the total population of the city is true.

But in actual numbers more blacks still died then whites when looking at the total number of deaths and not including the perecentage of the total population that each group makes up.

new math strikes again and they shouldn't say shit until 99% of the bodies are ID

Quoted: Quoted: French Quarter + Katrina = Lots of Dead Blacks Louisianna + Katrina = Lots of Dead Blacks & Whites Uh No. The French Quarter did not flood to any great extent and virtually no one died there.

noted...and acknowledged.  

I've never been sober down there....I get confused.  It all looks the same.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Wait a second this shit maks no sence they say whites made up a higher p[recentage of the deaths from the storm in NO, but then show these stats 36.6 percent of the storm's fatalities in the city were white 59.1 percent of the deceased were black. So if over 50% of the dead in the city were BLACK, then the entire premis of the artical is flawed is it not. I understand that whites are a smaller percentage of the over all population in NO, but when you count the bodies if more people whoidie are black then you can't say regardless of the overall population make up that more whites died then blacks. The over all percentage of the population has nothing to do with it. More whites did not die then blacks. You are confusing percentages and total numbers. They are saying that "whites" died at a higher perctange than they represent in the overall population. Meaning African-Amercian death, though more numerous, were actually at a lower percentage than their representation in the overall population. They are dealing with the death rate by race vs total poulation by race, not simply the percentage of deaths by race. Yes exactly, the death rate for whites was demonstrably higher than for blacks. Exploding the myth there was discrimination against blacks in any way during hurricane reliefor the Government was out to kill blacks or did care about blacks, ect…. I'm confusing nothing, lets look at how the artical starts out shall we. Statistics released by the Louisiana Department of Health and Hospitals suggest that fewer than half of the victims of Hurricane Katrina were black, Ok here this reads that blacks made up less then half of the total body count. and that whites died at the highest rate of all races in New Orleans. This takes into account not the total population of the city, but only the population of the city that is white. So we have an over all decleration that of all deaths, blacks made up less then half, yet the stats show that that is not true, that of all deaths, more blacks died then any other group. So whites dieing at a higher rate then blacks based on the percentage of each groups representation in the total population of the city is true. But in actual numbers more blacks still died then whites when looking at the total number of deaths and not including the perecentage of the total population that each group makes up.

Do you have any concept of what rates mean.

Public schools…

That is absurd analysis.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: French Quarter + Katrina = Lots of Dead Blacks Louisianna + Katrina = Lots of Dead Blacks & Whites Uh No. The French Quarter did not flood to any great extent and virtually no one died there. noted...and acknowledged.   I've never been sober down there....I get confused.  It all looks the same.

Well that is understandable... spent plenty of time there myself under the influence.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: French Quarter + Katrina = Lots of Dead Blacks Louisianna + Katrina = Lots of Dead Blacks & Whites Uh No. The French Quarter did not flood to any great extent and virtually no one died there. noted...and acknowledged.   I've never been sober down there....I get confused.  It all looks the same. Well that is understandable... spent plenty of time there myself under the influence.

I'll tip my plastic cup to that!

Next time I have a hurricane down there I'll respect the drink a little more.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Wait a second this shit maks no sence they say whites made up a higher p[recentage of the deaths from the storm in NO, but then show these stats 36.6 percent of the storm's fatalities in the city were white 59.1 percent of the deceased were black. So if over 50% of the dead in the city were BLACK, then the entire premis of the artical is flawed is it not. I understand that whites are a smaller percentage of the over all population in NO, but when you count the bodies if more people whoidie are black then you can't say regardless of the overall population make up that more whites died then blacks. The over all percentage of the population has nothing to do with it. More whites did not die then blacks. You are confusing percentages and total numbers. They are saying that "whites" died at a higher perctange than they represent in the overall population. Meaning African-Amercian death, though more numerous, were actually at a lower percentage than their representation in the overall population. They are dealing with the death rate by race vs total poulation by race, not simply the percentage of deaths by race. Yes exactly, the death rate for whites was demonstrably higher than for blacks. Exploding the myth there was discrimination against blacks in any way during hurricane reliefor the Government was out to kill blacks or did care about blacks, ect…. I'm confusing nothing, lets look at how the artical starts out shall we. Statistics released by the Louisiana Department of Health and Hospitals suggest that fewer than half of the victims of Hurricane Katrina were black, Ok here this reads that blacks made up less then half of the total body count. and that whites died at the highest rate of all races in New Orleans. This takes into account not the total population of the city, but only the population of the city that is white. So we have an over all decleration that of all deaths, blacks made up less then half, yet the stats show that that is not true, that of all deaths, more blacks died then any other group. So whites dieing at a higher rate then blacks based on the percentage of each groups representation in the total population of the city is true. But in actual numbers more blacks still died then whites when looking at the total number of deaths and not including the perecentage of the total population that each group makes up. Do you have any concept of what rates mean. Public schools… That is absurd analysis.

Can you fucking read, I'm not saying that the rate at which whites died was less then blacks, I'm saying that the artical is claiming a couple different things.

Reread the damn lead for the artical and tell me the artical makes sence. The statistics make sence but they are talking about how less then half the deaths were blacks in the lead when in fact that is not true. The fucking lead of the story claims that less then half the total deaths in NO were black and that is patently FALSE. It then goes on after that to talk about the rates based on the brake down of race in the cities population. That whites died at higher rates  does not change the FACT that BLACKS still made up OVER HALF of all deaths.

It's a poorly worded lead and as I said thats where my initial confusion came in.

Originally Posted By photoman and that whites died at the highest rate of all races in New Orleans. This takes into account not the total population of the city, but only the population of the city that is white.

You need to reread what you post... That is absurd.

Those rates cannot be determined without taking into account the total population of the city.

Quoted: Damu Smith, founder of the National Black Environmental Justice Network, in September said that the federal government "ignored us, they forgot about us ... because we look like we look." Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan in October said that the Federal Emergency Management Agency wasn't fit to help the storm's victims because "there are not enough blacks high up in FEMA" and added that, "certainly the Red Cross is the same."

I guess the black mayor and the black chief of police had no power.  And what about the white, but democrat, governer?  No power?

it's so much easier to blame Bush

I didn't see the government ignoring anyone.

In fact, I saw the government helping black people in the city. The ones who consumed the largest percentage of public resources prior to the hurricane as well.

The white communities that I saw were digging themselves out.

Quoted: Originally Posted By photoman and that whites died at the highest rate of all races in New Orleans. This takes into account not the total population of the city, but only the population of the city that is white. You need to reread what you post... That is absurd. Those rates cannot be determined without taking into account the total population of the city.

Yah it's off I left out a word or two there so it don't sound right. I don't feel like changing it either.

All I was getting at was the way they first started out talking about how blacks made up less then half of all deaths, which is  false blacks made up over half of the total deaths. (59.1% of all deaths)

That whites died at a higher rate doesn't change the fact that of all deaths, blacks made up over half of all deaths total.

The fact that whites died at higher rates should not be at all suprising considering they make up a smaller percentage of the overall population of the damn city. But to say blacks made up less then half the victims, in the first sentance and then go on to say that blacks accounted for 59.1% of the deaths total shows that the first sentance of the artical was false.

Whites on ly accounted for 36.6% of the total dead. Thats less then half. So while the rate at which wites died was higher, the number of whites who died is not more then the number of blacks killed by katrina.

Do you get what I'm pointing out now?

Because the blacks killed them all during all the chaos. j/k

Guess Bush doesn' care about white people either. Just Illegal Mexicans.

photoman, the article is consistent with the statistics it cites.  You're just confusing the percentages relating to deaths that occurred in the city of New Orleans and the percentages relating to deaths that occurred statewide.

See the portions of the article that I highlighted and my comments below.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Wait a second this shit maks no sence they say whites made up a higher p[recentage of the deaths from the storm in NO, but then show these stats 36.6 percent of the storm's fatalities in the city were white 59.1 percent of the deceased were black. So if over 50% of the dead in the city were BLACK, then the entire premis of the artical is flawed is it not. I understand that whites are a smaller percentage of the over all population in NO, but when you count the bodies if more people whoidie are black then you can't say regardless of the overall population make up that more whites died then blacks. The over all percentage of the population has nothing to do with it. More whites did not die then blacks. You are confusing percentages and total numbers. They are saying that "whites" died at a higher perctange than they represent in the overall population. Meaning African-Amercian death, though more numerous, were actually at a lower percentage than their representation in the overall population. They are dealing with the death rate by race vs total poulation by race, not simply the percentage of deaths by race. Yes exactly, the death rate for whites was demonstrably higher than for blacks. Exploding the myth there was discrimination against blacks in any way during hurricane reliefor the Government was out to kill blacks or did care about blacks, ect…. I'm confusing nothing, lets look at how the artical starts out shall we. Statistics released by the Louisiana Department of Health and Hospitals suggest that fewer than half of the victims of Hurricane Katrina were black, Ok here this reads that blacks made up less then half of the total body count. You are correct.  But this is where you're getting confused.  Here, the article is referring to the total number of Katrina victims in the entire State of Louisiana.  Nothing in the statement limits it to the city of New Orleans.  Look at the statistics.  In the entire State of Louisiana, 47% of the victims were black.  In other words, blacks made up less than half of the total body count, just like the article says. and that whites died at the highest rate of all races in New Orleans. This takes into account not the total population of the city, but only the population of the city that is white. This statement is focused specifically on deaths occurring in the city of New Orleans, not those occuring statewide.  Based on the statistics cited, this is a correct statement.  You have to recognize that the biggest pile of bodies and highest death rate are two different things.  Black victims made up the biggest pile, but white victims had the highest death rate.  In other words, a larger percentage of the white population of New Orleans died as a result of Katrina. So we have an over all decleration that of all deaths, blacks made up less then half, yet the stats show that that is not true, that of all deaths, more blacks died then any other group. Wrong.  The statistics show that blacks made up only 47% of the total Katrina-related deaths in the State of Louisiana.  More blacks than whites died in the city of New Orleans, but more non-blacks died overall throughout the State. So whites dieing at a higher rate then blacks based on the percentage of each groups representation in the total population of the city is true. But in actual numbers more blacks still died then whites when looking at the total number of deaths and not including the perecentage of the total population that each group makes up.