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Posted: 7/22/2001 6:58:15 PM EDT
[#1]
It is a great looking dog Ken.
One of our female members here who has a lot of respect from other members..(me included) pointed out the inconsistencies here when it came to what type of threads were locked and which ones weren't. A lot that involved derogatory,degrading or other types of remarks about women were not locked. She is right and that will change. I know you posted the pics to show off your puppy..but the comment below the pic was a green light to start a women bashing thread. So I ended it before it started. |
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Posted: 7/22/2001 7:03:23 PM EDT
[#2]
Your pup is terrific. I don't blame you for being proud.
As far as the locking of your thread--pretty soon everyone who manages to offend anyone will be banned. This will mean nearly everyone who lurks here. Then there will only be six or eight left--but no one will be offended, ever. Sheesh. [rolleyes] In other words, I didn't see any reason to nuke you, though I wholehearted agree with the current "cleaning up" of the board to get rid of the stuff that actually is offensive. |
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Posted: 7/22/2001 7:12:18 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted: Your pup is terrific. I don't blame you for being proud. As far as the locking of your thread--pretty soon everyone who manages to offend anyone will be banned. This will mean nearly everyone who lurks here. Then there will only be six or eight left--but no one will be offended, ever. Sheesh. [rolleyes] In other words, I didn't see any reason to nuke you, though I wholehearted agree with the current "cleaning up" of the board to get rid of the stuff that actually is offensive. I agree with beekeeper. Threads shouldn't be locked unless comments are out of hand. Before too much longer this site is going to look like a Liberal feel good board. For a site whos members pride themselves on personal resposibility and freedom, it sure is getting tight in here. |
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Posted: 7/22/2001 7:50:16 PM EDT
[#4]
[b]"Just like a female, lays on her back with her legs in the air"[/b]
I locked the thread because of this comment and the ones that where sure to follow. Lock it now..lock it later. It was a judgement call..like most of them are. And no I'm not going lock happy. Just more vigilant. |
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Posted: 7/22/2001 7:53:03 PM EDT
[#5]
[b]
I agree with beekeeper. Threads shouldn't be locked unless comments are out of hand. Before too much longer this site is going to look like a Liberal feel good board. For a site whos members pride themselves on personal resposibility and freedom, it sure is getting tight in here. In order to talk about the Second, you must give up some of the First. This is a result of the inconsistencies that were pointed out when dealing with bias, prejudice and overt racism. Up until a short while ago it was perfectly fine to slander women, asians and probably a couple of other groups but [b]DO NOT[/b] utter any negative or even factual words about blacks. That will get the thread locked, your account disabled and the general population in a lather. Now with the Zero Tolerance policy being invoked we will all be much safer, out of harms way and not have to think about such awful things as racism, bias or prejudice. We have been saved from ourselves, Don't it feel good? |
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Posted: 7/22/2001 8:01:07 PM EDT
[#6]
latetly i don't think the I gave up the first. More like it is bieng taken away. I'm sorry if someone is upset by a comment made on a forum. But you know what, That's life. Everyone will be offended by something sooner or later. As for the girls getting offended by certain comments, DON'T FREAKING READ THEM!! If i see a topic i don't like i don't open it. If i notice a thread head a way i don't like i stop reading it. I can understand locking a thread for decency reasons. Striker's comment about lock it now or lock it later, Ok lets ban your firearms one day you might think about using one in a crime. Same difference. You guys are pushing for memberships but have gone completely PC. Thats going to be a hard sell for some of us.
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Posted: 7/22/2001 8:01:37 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: And no I'm not going lock happy. Just more vigilant. You always seem to be a most reasoned man. As I said, I agree with the "more vigilant." It was a cute pup though! [:D] |
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Posted: 7/22/2001 8:02:37 PM EDT
[#8]
Some of you have missed the point though. It's not so much that a post is offensive, but that they are judged by the same standard. If Ken had posted the exact same picture, then made a comment about the color of his dog, rather than it's gender, people would be screaming for his blood. It's the double standard that should end.
Miss Magnum was not complaining about anti-woman posts [i]per se[/i]. Just about the way the rules are enforced for one group, but not for another regardless of what that group may be. It's not a femminist thing, it's a fairness thing. No one's calling for high-intensity moderation, just fairness. If the borad has rules, they should be followed. Not just for a certain group. Striker made the decision to lock the thread. That's his job and his call. An open warning may have sufficed, as it may have in many of the racial threads that went on too long before a mod stepped in. Still, I could see where it was going just as well as Striker did. He's not trying to be a "board Nazi", just applying the rules fairly. Ross |
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Posted: 7/22/2001 8:15:06 PM EDT
[#9]
Your gettin a little trigger happy there striker.
If you guys are gonna lock every thread cuz someone is offended by its content, then pretty soon we can just have AR(be pc)15.com. I'm not saying that we shouldnt have any standard of ethics, cuz we should, however this is the GD forum and it should be treated accordingly. remember, I bet I could find something in just about every thread that could offend someone. so if your aim is to not have threads that might offend certain people, maybe we can have a GD forum and a GDPC forum, if you, for whatever reason think that you might be offended by something, then stay the hell out of the non PC, GD forum. AAWWWWW crap, I probably offended someone by saying hell, AAWWW I said crap too.... see what I mean.... lighten up people, lifes too short to get worked up over something some anonymous author writes on a internet forum. rant over, carry on... 51 out..[):)] |
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Posted: 7/22/2001 8:16:15 PM EDT
[#10]
It was the best looking wet and wild bitch I had ever seen.
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Posted: 7/22/2001 8:20:03 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: It was the best looking wet and wild bitch I had ever seen. Christ! Now you're gonna get this thread locked--Kens just can't win tonight! LOL |
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Posted: 7/22/2001 8:23:43 PM EDT
[#12]
More than a few times I've defended us to other people who call us [red]www.ar15.whiners.com[/red].
Why do we all have to be such a bunch of crybabies?[>(] |
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Posted: 7/22/2001 8:34:06 PM EDT
[#13]
Darn it you do, darn if you don't.
Can't win. Where are these peoples mothers anyway? [:)] (PS: Nice 81tch Ken) |
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Posted: 7/22/2001 8:34:54 PM EDT
[#14]
You people are so damn uptight, you'd swear he was trying to sell stem cells or something. Is it an insult to give a female dog a female name? this is a witch hunt and is blatantly stupid.
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Posted: 7/22/2001 8:36:00 PM EDT
[#15]
Striker you described it as a "boys night out attitude".
What's wrong with that? If I can't have a good time here what is the point? I like to bullshit with other people(men and women) without having to worry about the PC patrol on my ass. I'm not trying to flame you. I realize your job is not easy. Just saying. |
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Posted: 7/22/2001 8:49:37 PM EDT
[#16]
OK, while the pc cops are at it, why not do something about these clearly insensitive icons...
some of those that might be offensive are... [:D] to those without teeth [8D] to the blind [:E] the dumb [:X] the womenz [xx(] the formerly living [):)] our hispanic brethren [@:D] our african american brethren and so on and so on...... 51 out... [x] |
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Posted: 7/22/2001 8:55:58 PM EDT
[#17]
and don't forget [X]the insane.....
sorry, couldn't pass it up[:D] sgb [img]http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/FIREdevil.gif[/img] |
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Posted: 7/22/2001 8:59:44 PM EDT
[#18]
Kens,
As far as i am concerned you have nothing to apologize for. Your post was not in bad taste or offensive. mike |
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Posted: 7/22/2001 9:03:21 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: and don't forget [X]the insane..... sorry, couldn't pass it up[:D] sgb [img]http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/FIREdevil.gif[/img] You also forgot the Devil [img]http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/FIREdevil.gif[/img] |
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Posted: 7/22/2001 9:13:33 PM EDT
[#20]
"Just like a female, lays on her back with her legs in the air" I was not really offended by this but don't you think one of the few ladies who do grace this forum may be? Do you guys really have this much of a lack of respect for woman? That is the point nothing more.... |
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Posted: 7/22/2001 9:22:45 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: "Just like a female, lays on her back with her legs in the air" I was not really offended by this but don't you think one of the few ladies who do grace this forum may be? Do you guys really have this much of a lack of respect for woman? That is the point nothing more.... Yes they might have been. So let them defend themselves. If it gets ugly thats the time for moderation. I am sick of the PC SH*T. If it's not a personal attack and not just an obvious troll let it go. No one there said just like MEMBERX on her back. This may not be right but this is a male dominated GUN board. Testoterone will flow, some folks will spout idiotic statements. So what!! Take them for what they are and who they come from. [%(] |
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Posted: 7/22/2001 9:39:55 PM EDT
[#22]
Yeah, but if he used the color of his dog rather than the gender, Kens would have been burned at the stake and probably booted from the board. It's not a question of whether this is a male dominated board. It's a white dominated board as well. That doesn't mean that minorities should have to "defend themselves". The difference in the past is that if it was a comment about race it would have been pounced on by the mods. If it was gender derogetory it was ignored.
Rather than having a PC board that's sensitive to only a certain group, we probably need a board that's sensitive to all groups without being "PC" in attitude. Really less moderation in a fair way is what I would prefer. I really don't envy the mods as they'll be trying to balance everything. Have patience. In the end it will all work itself out. Ross |
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Posted: 7/22/2001 9:44:57 PM EDT
[#23]
I think most of the Mods still have a Boner left over from the Captain Obvious thing, it will probably become flaccid in time.
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Posted: 7/22/2001 9:50:52 PM EDT
[#24]
"we probably need a board that's sensitive to all groups"
Give me a freakin Break! That is the very definition of PC. No one is saying that a discussion about the merits of the KKK or skin heads should be allowed. But even a reasonable discussion of race here is banned or locked based on a MOD thinking it might get bad. If a statement is made by a member that someone disagrees with let them defend it. I personally don't care if you or anyone is offended by my posts. I have never had a thread locked or edited mostly because i have respect for the members here. But that does not mean i want to see censorship of "Sensitive" topics. There are definantly times for moderation. But it should be reserved for real problems and those offending members should be dealt with. Once again if you don't like the damn topic DON'T READ IT! mike [%(] |
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Posted: 7/22/2001 9:53:25 PM EDT
[#25]
As Striker mentioned:
One of our female members here who has a lot of respect from other members..(me included) pointed out the inconsistencies here when it came to what type of threads were locked and which ones weren't. A lot that involved derogatory,degrading or other types of remarks about women were not locked. She is right and that will change. He was just trying to do what he thought was right and I agree with it. I also don't think a woman should have to come in here and defend herself from that type of statement. Maybe something like "I think woman buy way to many pairs of shoes." NOT "Just like a female, lays on her back with her legs in the air" |
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Posted: 7/22/2001 10:02:57 PM EDT
[#26]
yet jokes about sex with females is ok? The women who come here are strong enough to take care of themselves. Ms Magnum could certanly rip most of us apart and have us begging for more. If a name was mentioned then fine deal with the offender. I have serious doubts that statement was anything other than a failed attempt at humor. I have no problems with female member starting a male bashing or girls only thread. We are all adults. If you can't deal with it then the GD forum is not the place for you. Go get your info and enjoy that area.
mike [%(] |
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Posted: 7/22/2001 10:13:02 PM EDT
[#27]
the beer slayer-
Damn, we seem to be saying the same thing again. Maybe the term I used("sensitvie") wasn't macho enough for you[;)]. Oh well, how about this... Yeah, but if he used the color of his dog rather than the gender, Kens would have been burned at the stake and probably booted from the board. compared to this... But even a reasonable discussion of race here is banned or locked based on a MOD thinking it might get bad. again, we're saying the same thing. You left off the last portion of my sentence: Rather than having a PC board that's sensitive to only a certain group, we probably need a board that's sensitive to all groups without being "PC" in attitude. Ross |
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Posted: 7/22/2001 10:17:08 PM EDT
[#28]
God forgive me but this is a steaming pile of
bullshit! MM whines that woman bashing deserves the same status as race bashing. That is akin to the homos equating their right to anal intercourse with the blacks civil rights struggle. If the mods and MM supporters have their way we will have to refrain from calling women like Finestein, Clinton, Boxer, Brady, Lewinsky, O'Donnell, MMM, Ex-wives, Krack Ho's, and a host of others NAMES! WTH! Pretend they aren't what they are? So MM gets to play on both sides of the fence. Here we make nice. There she gets to "let her hair down" and discuss the merits of anal sex and other titillating perversions. Does the term BIPOLAR ring anyones bell? |
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Posted: 7/22/2001 10:19:04 PM EDT
[#29]
my point is this. someone can make a joke such as this
A Highway patrol pulled a blonde over for speeding. Walking up to her window, he failed to notice that his fly was open. When he got to her window, the blonde looked at the open fly and said dejectedly, "OH NO!!! Not another breathelizer test" Yet a the topic that was locked had comments far less offesive thatn this. This is not "even handed" moderation. Once again this is a male dominated board. By definition men are insensitive idiots. Don't believe me? Go ask any of our wives. I don't go to marthastewart.com and expect them to be sensitive to me. If it's not a personal attack who cares. This board is run by men. The majority of the members are men. Men have no taste. Some one is gonna get there feelings hurt. I won't intetionally flame anyone or any group that doesn't attack me first. But i'm a nice guy. Some of us are jerks. Does that mean they are not entitled to thier opinions? mike [%(] |
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Posted: 7/22/2001 10:31:37 PM EDT
[#30]
Good Lord, If I'd known this was going to progress into what it has, I wouldn't have started another thread and apologized!!
KenS |
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Posted: 7/22/2001 10:31:55 PM EDT
[#31]
ross,
my point is that your statement: Rather than having a PC board that's sensitive to only a certain group, we probably need a board that's sensitive to all groups without being "PC" in attitude. can not happen with out bieng "PC". My understanding of the term is the eradication of anything that will or may offend anyone or any group. I know we are arguing symantics but words count. Check out every other gun site on the net. We are refered to as the Touchy Feely board. The Board thats scared to bring up a controversy. Our core members are not that way. Everyone has a STRONG opinion on something. Mention a topic on religion or LEO's and see what happens. It seems we can bash LEO's till the cows come home. Why? because they can take care of themselves. Thats the way it should be. I'm sorry but i feel if you don't like the conversation here this place is not for you. We shouldn't have to wonder if every post is ok or to harsh for someone to read. mike [%(] OH lord i'm almost agreeing with hangfire..... THE END IS NEAR!! |
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Posted: 7/22/2001 10:33:50 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: Good Lord, If I'd known this was going to progress into what it has, I wouldn't have started another thread and apologized!! KenS ROFLMAO No sweat dude i like getting in a heated thread once and awhile. We just took over your thread. If it wasn't here i'd have started one anyway. [:)] mike |
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Posted: 7/22/2001 10:39:33 PM EDT
[#33]
The Beer Slayer-
Yes, it is funny. Yet a the topic that was locked had comments far less offesive thatn this. This is not "even handed" moderation. Yup, and that's the danger. People are entitled to their opinions, and as long as they aren't trying to hurt others there should be no problem. The mods simply have to stop things that cross the line. KenS certainly wasn't trying to hurt anyone, and it's doubtful anyone else was either. If someone found it offensive, then they could simply ask people to refrain. If people cross the line, then the mods should take over. I bet MM doesn't expect mods to defend her. I don't expect mods to defend me. I prefer to do that myself, and would be insulted if a mod tried to "rescue me." Ross |
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Posted: 7/22/2001 10:43:22 PM EDT
[#34]
exactly!!
Can i go to sleep now. My brain hurts. [:)]I know i'm gettin riled up over a stinkin internet site but damn. This used to be the best board going. Now it's starting to look like GlockTalk around here. Mike Molan Labe |
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Posted: 7/22/2001 10:52:37 PM EDT
[#35]
The Beer Slayer-
Yeah, we are arguing symantics and words do count. In the end we are saying the same thing. I'm on several other boards as well. Sure, AR15.com has "earned" a reputation as the Touchy Feely Board. The only people that can control that are the ones running it. If this board changes to where I no longer enjoy it, I'll leave to others. If I can change it for the better (as we are both doing by this thread) then that's even better. My point is that we should not be pushing the protection of one group over another. People should be able to post what they think. One group should not have to "defend themsleves" when another goup is super protected to the point that the mention of "race" will result in my banishment. ALL groups should have to "defend themselves" (or not have to) equally. There's nothing wrong with treating all groups the same. Ross (edited for spelling, again) |
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Posted: 7/22/2001 11:01:28 PM EDT
[#36]
could not have said it better.
mike Molon Labe |
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Posted: 7/23/2001 6:31:46 AM EDT
[#37]
Quoted: If this board changes to where I no longer enjoy it, I'll leave to others. If I can change it for the better (as we are both doing by this thread) then that's even better. This puts a smile on my face. Guys, this place is not for the staff or moderators its for all of you. Sure we draw the final line of where not to go, but in the end we're only trying to live up to being fair across the board. I FINALLY checked the post in question and some of the comments in there, such as the line, [b]"Just like a female, lays on her back with her legs in the air"[/b] are offensive. There was no problem calling the dog a bitch, so get your facts straight. Ross said it best, replace the sexist comment with a racist one and perhaps you will understand WHY Striker acted. If the post said, "Just like a black dog to be eating fried chicken." THEN it would have made sense to more of you and you would side with him on it. I dont think the post was put up with ANY bad intentions, but some of us run our mouths without thinking about others and so be it, we're all human. In the end though this was the right action for the comments in there. The point we need to make as the staff is simply regulating things fairly across the board and ONLY when they go past offensive. Look at it this way 95% of the posts in here (ok maybe 75%) are going to offend someone somewhere, BUT if its not meant to hurt anyone and doesn't have derogitory comments in it, then it's going to remain open. The sexist comment, playful or not was the reason why the thread was locked. Understand that and lets move on. -- GB PS - Cute dog KenS and thanks to Striker for doing his job. |
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Posted: 7/23/2001 7:43:32 AM EDT
[#38]
NOT A FLAME!!!
Ya wanna hear the funny part? The women didn't seem to mind, just the men were offended, in fact Maewestcoast had a good comeback for me. Things that make you go hmmmmm KenS |
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Posted: 7/23/2001 8:30:33 AM EDT
[#39]
Ken, that may be so, but we don't always hear from everyone out there who reads the forums.
The key is to curb the insulting comments equally, regardless of who is offended. I'm sure there are many hispanics here who can laugh off a good joke or ignore a comment, but the point is if it's insulting, they shouldn't have to. -- GB |
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Posted: 7/23/2001 8:44:42 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: The key is to curb the insulting comments equally, regardless of who is offended. I'm sure there are many hispanics here who can laugh off a good joke or ignore a comment, but the point is if it's insulting, they shouldn't have to. -- GB GoatBoy, It probably is not my place to say this, but I will anyway. As long as what is written is meant to be humorous, people should take it as a joke. One of my favorite comedians is Dennis Miller, who in one of his rants said: "There are two worlds, the real world and the joke world. The joke world can get tough, wear a cup." When I read the referenced postings, I thought that it was somewhat humorous, but also a rather childish play on words. But I took it as a joke. I wonder when we (as a people) lost our thick skins. It is coming to a time where no-one will be able to make any jokes, for the fear of insulting someone who does not understand the purpose of humor. If we continue to go down this path of political correctiveness, where does it end? Instead of purchasing 'white' bread, will it be called 'blanched flour baked product'? Instead of ordering my coffee 'black', does this mean I must order it 'without added dairy/non-dairy products and no sucrose'? Again, just my 2 cents. |
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Posted: 7/23/2001 8:55:18 AM EDT
[#41]
Not everyone shares that view though, and although we may not agree with it, we do have to respect it.
I can laugh about anything and I can joke about anything. I've pissed my wife off many a time with a few jokes I love. Does that make her any less of a person than I? We're all different, a joke to you may not be funny to someone else. Haven't you ever wondered why black comedians can say certain things that would get white comedian, with the same audience, killed? It's a double standard in many ways, it's racism in many ways, but its the truth about who we are. One of my best friends is Japanese. We call each other racist terms at times out of love and respect. We both joke about everything and I would take a bullet for him and would hope he feels the same way towards me. The fact that we're so close nullifies any anger or hostility in mere words. I am the same way with a few black friends. In college we would hang around and say things which made passing people turn pale. We did it out of respect for each other, the words held positive connotations not negative one. Now ask me if I would do the same with a random Japanese or Black person on the street or in these forums. We're all different and only when relationships are formed and bonds strong can we realize that words are only words. And to some, those words can never be anything more than wrong or evil... -- GB |
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Posted: 7/23/2001 9:01:58 AM EDT
[#42]
I was gonna post a reply but my wife hates me now for what i said so i cancled it. now i have to stand in the corner. [:(]
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Posted: 7/23/2001 9:25:33 AM EDT
[#43]
This is getting out of hand. I complained the other day as to why some topics like race were treated with such PC and topics like bashing Cops were allowed to run wild, If you all remember it was even suggested that we E mail GPSS and complain about the flags because Cav vet didn't like them.I guess the powers that be have decided to go full bore PC across the board. IMHO that is a mistake.
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Posted: 7/23/2001 9:39:04 AM EDT
[#44]
We're not going PC on here, just going to moderate more evenly with the offensive crap.
It's a growth process, so help us out, kick us when we screw up (dont just bitch and name call), and help things along. |
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Posted: 7/23/2001 9:47:47 AM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: We're not going PC on here, just going to moderate more evenly with the offensive crap. It's a growth process, so help us out, kick us when we screw up (dont just bitch and name call), and help things along. |
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Posted: 7/23/2001 9:53:27 AM EDT
[#46]
Seems to always happen after a small explosion like we had last week... we all feel like we've screwed up and try to do too much in the process to correct it.
]=) Take it as a good sign, not a bad one. Things will be back to normal. |
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Posted: 7/23/2001 10:02:35 AM EDT
[#47]
Quoted: Seems to always happen after a small explosion like we had last week... we all feel like we've screwed up and try to do too much in the process to correct it. ]=) Take it as a good sign, not a bad one. Things will be back to normal. |
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