Police attack ravers near Salt Lake City, Utah

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Police attack ravers near Salt Lake City, Utah (Page 1 of 3)

Posted: 8/22/2005 7:51:43 PM EDT

I did a search for "rave" set for 3 days and didn't see anything, so I'm hoping this isn't a duplicate.

UTAH RAVERS TREATED LIKE TERRORISTS!
by Apollo
Sun Aug 21st, 2005 at 22:30:30 PDT

Originally Posted by knick evl ntnt

Last night, I was booked to play an event about an hour outside of Salt Lake City, Utah. The hype behind this show was huge, they presold 700 tickets and they expected up to 3,000 people total. The promoters did an amazing job with the show.. they even made slipmats with the flyers on them to promote in local shops.

So, we got to the show around 11:15 or so and it was really cool. It was all outdoors, in a valley surrounded by huge mountains. They had an amazing light show flashing on to a mountain behind the site, the sound was booming, the crowd was about 1500 people thick and everything just seemed too good to be true really. Well...

At about 11:30 or so, I was standing behind the stage talking with someone when I noticed a helicopter pulling over one of the mountain tops. I jokingly said "Oh look, here comes big brother" to the person I was with. I wasn't far off.

Apollo's diary :: ::
The helicopter dipped lower and lower and started shining its lights on the crowd. I was kind of in awe and just sat and watched this thing circle us for a minute. As I looked back towards the crowd I saw a guy dressed in camoflauge walking by, toting an assault rifle. At this point, everyone was fully aware of what was going on . A few "troops" rushed the stage and cut the sound off and started yelling that everyone "get the fuck out of here or go to jail". This is where it got really sticky.

No one resisted. That's for sure. They had police dogs raiding the crowd of people and I saw a dog signal out a guy who obviously had some drugs on him. The soldiers attacked the guy (4 of them on 1), and kicked him a few times in the ribs and had their knees in his back and sides. As they were cuffing him, there was about 1000 kids trying to leave in the backdrop, peacefully. Next thing I know, A can of fucking TEAR GAS is launched into the crowd. People are running and screaming at this point. Girls are crying, guys are cussing... bad scene.

Now, this is all I saw with my own eyes, but I heard plenty of other accounts of the night. Now this isnt gossip I heard from some candy raver, these are instances cited straight out of the promoters mouth..

One of the promoters friends (a very small female) was attacked by one of the police dogs. As she struggled to get away from it, the police tackled her. 3 grown men proceeded to KICK HER IN THE STOMACH.

The police confiscated 3 video tapes in total. People were trying to document what was happening out there. The police saw one guy filming and ran after him, tackled him and his camera fell, and luckily.. his friend grabbed it and ran and got away. priceless footage. That's not all though. Out of 1,500 people, there's sure to be more footage.

The police were rounding up the staff of the party and the main promoter went up to them with the permit for the show and said "here, I have the permit." The police then said, "no you don't" and ripped the permit out of his hand. Then, they put an assault rifle to his forehead and said "get the fuck out of here right now."

Now.. let's get the facts straight here.

This event was 100% legal. They had every permit the city told them they needed. They had a 2 MILLION DOLLAR insurance policy for the event. They had liscenced security guards at the gates confiscating any alcohol or drugs found upon entry (yes, they searched every car on the way in). Oh, I suppose I should mention that they arrested all the security guards for possession.

Oh another interesting fact.. the police did not have a warrant. The owner of the land already has a lawsuit against the city for something similar. A few months ago, she rented her land for a party and the police raided that as well. And catch this, the police forced her to LEAVE HER OWN PERSONAL PROPERTY. That's right. They didnt arrest her, but made her leave her own property!!!

Don't get it twisted, this is all going down in probably THE most conservative state in the USA. And this is scary.. a gross violation of our civil liberties. The police wanted this party shut down, so they made it happen. Even though everything about this event was legal. The promoters spent over $ 20,000 on this show and did everything they had to to make it legit, only to have it taken away from them by a group of radical neo-con's with an agenda.

This was one of the scariest things I have ever witnessed in person. I can't even begin to describe how surreal it was. Helicopters, assault rifles, tear gas, camoflauge-wearing soldiers.... why? Was that really necessary?

This needs to be big news across the USofA. At least in our music scene (edm as a whole)... this could happen to any of us at any time. When we're losing the right to gather peacefully, we're also letting the police set a standard of what we can get away with. And I think that's BULLSHIT!

The system fucked up last night... They broke up a party that was 100% legal and they physically hurt a lot of people there at the same time. The promoters already have 6 lawsuits ready to file with their lawyers and the ACLU is already involved.

I'm sure some pictures (and hopefully some video) will surface soon. I'll make sure to post them up here on 404, so you can see the Police State of America at work.

p.s. - there are more stories of police brutality that i'll post up later. gotta hit the airport soon. can't wait to get the fuck out of this shit hole state.

www.buzzlife.com/forums/showthread.php

SHERIFF'S STATEMENT: http://www.utahcountyonline.org/News/DeptNewsDetails.asp?ID=17759&WN_System=SHERIFF

VIDEO: http://homepage.mac.com/apexgrin/FileSharing2.html

Posted: 8/22/2005 7:59:14 PM EDT

[#1]

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a Raver?

Posted: 8/22/2005 8:01:07 PM EDT

[#2]

Should have billed it as a "Tribute to Donnie and Marie"

Posted: 8/22/2005 8:03:04 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
Pardon my ignorance, but what is a Raver?

a ecstasy drugged teenager

Posted: 8/22/2005 8:03:40 PM EDT

[#4]

Did the cop at the end say "Put the camera down or your under arrest"? How does holding a camera justify arrest.

Posted: 8/22/2005 8:03:41 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
Pardon my ignorance, but what is a Raver?

Play techno, hit up on Ecstacy, dance like a fool an watch the pretty lights.

Posted: 8/22/2005 8:03:44 PM EDT

[#6]

Take that ya dirty hippies!

Posted: 8/22/2005 8:04:51 PM EDT

[#7]

stupid ravers.

Posted: 8/22/2005 8:06:01 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Pardon my ignorance, but what is a Raver?

druggie having a party

Posted: 8/22/2005 8:07:44 PM EDT

[#9]

Curiously, the Sheriff's statement is not available (the site doesn't respond)

I'm going to hold judgement on this one, but suggest that some things were probably exaggerated, the party people were not as peaceful as suggested, and not forget that the whole story is being told by a main participant in the event (no way there could be a bias there).

Posted: 8/22/2005 8:11:02 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Take that ya dirty~~hippies~~ gunowners!

Just wait...

Posted: 8/22/2005 8:13:59 PM EDT

[#11]

Thanks for the definitions.

I grew up in the sixties but it sure seems like there are more drug problems now.

Posted: 8/22/2005 8:16:01 PM EDT

[#12]

I don't mean to make light, but I couldn't help but think of this:

CARTMAN: I'm talking about the end of all life as we know it. For the past several days I've been... noticing a steep rise in the number of hippies coming to town. At first I thought maybe it was just a coincidence. Then I saw this... Three new drum circles have sprouted up here, here, and here. They're all growing in diameter, at a rate of two hippies per hour. What this means... is that the hippies are conglomerating. They'er thriving, if you will. I think that they're setting up for a.... hippie music festival.

I'm reserving judgment, but we'll have to see...

Posted: 8/22/2005 8:17:30 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
stupid ravers.

I guess it would be kind of funny if they just said "stupid gun owners" when they confiscate all our guns someday.

Having been to a rave party more than once I can say that not everyone does drugs. Hell you can go to a Bruce Springsteen concert and find people using drugs. I wouldn't call Bruce Springsteen fans druggies.

Posted: 8/22/2005 8:19:08 PM EDT

[#14]

The Sheriff's statement:

Utah County Sheriff's Office shuts down Rave Party in Spanish Fork Canyon.
During the summer of 2005 the Utah County Sheriff's Office has seen an increase in the number of large Rave parties that have occurred within Utah County. Approximately four weeks ago the Sheriff's Office became aware of another possible Rave party that was to occur somewhere in Utah County on August 20, 2005.

Tickets were sold through a Salt Lake vendor, Uprock, for $20.00. Tickets could be bought in advance and directions to the exact location of the Rave would be provided on the day of the event.

Utah County mass gathering ordinance prohibits the gathering of two hundred and fifty or more persons without a permit, bond, and Utah County Commission approval.

Research was conducted and no mass gathering permit had been obtained for this incident. However, a health department permit had been obtained and EMS personnel were contracted to be on scene for first aide.

From several previous experiences with Rave parties of this size, a large amount of drug use and underage consumption of alcohol occur. In addition reports of sexual assaults, overdoses, firearm violations, vehicle burglaries, and numerous individuals drive from the party under the influence of alcohol and or drugs.

Utah County Sheriff's Office Detectives interviewed several females that had attended a prior rave party in the Utah county area in the past month that had been sexual assaulted. These females stated that the combination of drugs and alcohol made them fear for their safety due to the groping and sexual assaults that occurred during the Rave party. In the last year alone one near fatal shooting was investigated by Utah County Sheriff's Office at a similar party.

Around noon on Saturday, August 20th, the Sheriff's office learned that the Rave Party was to take place in the Diamond Fork area located in Spanish Fork canyon at the Child's ranch. At that point it was again verified that the Utah County Commissioner's office had no knowledge of this nor had a permit been obtained.

Utah County Major Crimes was contacted to assist with undercover surveillance. Both local and state SWAT teams were called in to control the crowds ( Utah County Metro SWAT, Utah Department of Corrections out of Salt Lake and Gunnison, Department of Public Safety and their helicopter and Provo SWAT) approximately 90 law enforcement personnel combined.

At 9 pm the Rave party began and by 10 pm Major Crimes observed numerous illegal activities. Which included illegal use of drugs, distribution of drugs, and underage consumption of alcohol.

It was verified that more than 250 individuals were at the party, in violation or county statutes and by 11:30 pm law enforcement personnel moved in to curtail and disburse the party. During this process at least 60 arrests were made for weapons offenses, DUI, illegal underage consumption of alcohol, possession of marijuana, possession of cocaine, possession of methamphetamine, possession of ecstasy, distribution of ecstasy, resisting arrest, assault on a police officer, and disorderly conduct.

A safety sweep was conducted after the crowd was ordered to disburse and numerous narcotic items were located scattered on the ground which included: cocaine, ecstasy, marijuana, mushrooms, alcohol and large amounts of drug paraphernalia.

A 17 year old female from West Jordan, found by officers, had overdosed on ecstasy. She was treated and released to her parents.

Several local teenagers from Spanish Fork, Springville, Provo, and Payson were identified at the party by officers. As well as, numerous individuals out of the Salt Lake and Davis County area.

Parents need to be aware of the type of illegal activities that occurs at these type of gathering. Sexual assaults, rapes, overdoses, drugs, alcohol abuse, thefts, and firearms violations. The sale of drugs at these parties is so prevalent that at this particular Rave party drugs were offered to a local off duty emergency medical service personnel who were contracted to be there. In addition two security personnel hired by the promoter were arrested for possession of cocaine and ecstasy

Posted: 8/22/2005 8:25:33 PM EDT

[#15]

yeah that was an opinionated article......I say good for the cops and good for the druggies.

Posted: 8/22/2005 8:27:33 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Pardon my ignorance, but what is a Raver?

a ecstasy drugged teenager

A trespassing dancing queen wacked out on exstacy, methamphetamine, or GHB.

Posted: 8/22/2005 8:30:44 PM EDT

[#17]

I think that was just the JBT arm of the local Sierra Club. They really hate it when people mess up the natural beauty of their world.

Posted: 8/22/2005 8:31:05 PM EDT

[#18]

"Utah County mass gathering ordinance prohibits the gathering of two hundred and fifty or more persons without a permit, bond, and Utah County Commission approval.

Research was conducted and no mass gathering permit had been obtained for this incident."

Posted: 8/22/2005 8:31:29 PM EDT

[#19]

So a permit and county aproval is needed to assemble on private property.

Who else sees the basic problem here.

Posted: 8/22/2005 8:37:13 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
"Utah County mass gathering ordinance prohibits the gathering of two hundred and fifty or more persons without a permit, bond, and Utah County Commission approval.

Research was conducted and no mass gathering permit had been obtained for this incident."

So we will show up with fully automatic weapons, K9's, a helicopter and kick any ones ass who dares to ask what we are doing on PRIVATE PROPERTY.

Typical.

ETA: In these parts we get fines for not having the proper permits.

Posted: 8/22/2005 8:37:58 PM EDT

[#21]

The article from the Sheriff seems much, much more believable to me. Good for the cops.

Posted: 8/22/2005 8:43:48 PM EDT

[#22]

I wasn't there but this is up a place called Diamond Fork canyon which is up highway 6 in Spanish Fork Canyon. It's got great coverage on google earth if you are curious.

it's very mountainous and pretty, lots of deer elk and turkeys up there. Now imagine 2000 drugged kids and huge music and laser show. Perfect for elk and all the wildlife up there.

I'm not against this kind of party per se but if you want to screw yourself up do it in the city, not out where people are trying to bowhunt and camp with their familes and such.

It's like my dad said when I was little; you probably won't get arrested or in trouble if you are home on time and in bed. If you're not, you'll eventualy get your ass kicked.

he was right.

Posted: 8/22/2005 8:45:59 PM EDT

[#23]

Found this on the Salt Lake Health Dept site

Mass Gathering Permit

All persons conducting outdoor activities or events attracting large numbers of people are required to comply with Salt Lake Valley Health Department (SLVHD) Regulations. If your event lasts more than 2 hours or attracts over 500 people you must obtain a Mass Gathering Permit. Proper liquid and solid waste removal, sanitary facilities, drinking water, first aid, noise and liability insurance coverage is required and will be reviewed by the SLVHD.

The SLVHD requires two types of permits for events. A Mass Gathering Permit, and/or a Temporary Food Establishment Permit. Both permits are administered through the Bureau of Food Protection. Permits obtained from other cities or agencies will not take the place of the Mass Gathering Permit. Activities that offer food to the public must comply with all appropriate regulations for providing safe and wholesome food to the public. Additionally, if your event includes food service, a Temporary Event Permit may be required.

There is no waiver for non-profit organizations, schools, parks departments or government entities. Mass Gathering Regulations are not designed to restrict public or private events, but are intended to protect and ensure the needs of those attending the event. The sponsoring organization is responsible for all site clean-up and damage charges.

Posted: 8/22/2005 8:52:44 PM EDT

[#24]

More info:

http://forums.utrave.org/forumdisplay.php?f=9

These guys are saying that the permit WAS obtained, but it was confiscated when shown to officers.

Posted: 8/22/2005 8:55:25 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
Quoted:
"Utah County mass gathering ordinance prohibits the gathering of two hundred and fifty or more persons without a permit, bond, and Utah County Commission approval.

Research was conducted and no mass gathering permit had been obtained for this incident."

So we will show up with fully automatic weapons, K9's, a helicopter and kick any ones ass who dares to ask what we are doing on PRIVATE PROPERTY.

Typical.

ETA: In these parts we get fines for not having the proper permits.

Now come on.

The autorities had notice of the event and of the lack of the required permit for health/sanitation stuff. The tickets were being sold through a broker. Do you not think that the authorities had numerous undercovers in attendance, and that those undercovers did not make reports of pervasive illegal conduct occuring in plain sight as grounds for the gestapo to move in?

I have no doubt that, as frequently occurs, the police got overzealous. Its too frequent and it needs to be challenged.

But you're suggesting they charged in there because of the permit. Truth is, the permit problem is what gave them an excuse to be there and observe all that other illegal conduct referenced in the sheriff's report.

And +1 to the notion that big hippie gatherings like this fuck up the land and natural areas.

Posted: 8/22/2005 9:01:40 PM EDT

[#26]

I'm currious why you posted this here? I mean, I love trance, but....

Posted: 8/22/2005 9:02:19 PM EDT

[#27]

ok, so maybe the not having a permit is kind of BS
but undercover cops still witnessed drug use and under aged drinking

Posted: 8/22/2005 9:02:57 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
I wasn't there but this is up a place called Diamond Fork canyon which is up highway 6 in Spanish Fork Canyon. It's got great coverage on google earth if you are curious.

it's very mountainous and pretty, lots of deer elk and turkeys up there. Now imagine 2000 drugged kids and huge music and laser show. Perfect for elk and all the wildlife up there.

I'm not against this kind of party per se but if you want to screw yourself up do it in the city, not out where people are trying to bowhunt and camp with their familes and such.

It's like my dad said when I was little; you probably won't get arrested or in trouble if you are home on time and in bed. If you're not, you'll eventualy get your ass kicked.

he was right.

It's private fucking property. We seem to lose sight of the concept of freedom when it doesn't involve out little black rifles around here don't we.

Posted: 8/22/2005 9:05:07 PM EDT

[#29]

Apollo's diary :: ::
The helicopter dipped lower and lower and started shining its lights on the crowd. I was kind of in awe and just sat and watched this thing circle us for a minute.

Just say no to drugs.

Fuck em. All of em.

Posted: 8/22/2005 9:06:16 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Take that ya dirty~~hippies~~ gunowners!

Just wait...

You have nothing to fear from a pissed off hippie except an awful stench, but a pissed off gunowner, however...

Posted: 8/22/2005 9:06:51 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
Quoted:
stupid ravers.

I guess it would be kind of funny if they just said "stupid gun owners" when they confiscate all our guns someday.

Having been to a rave party more than once I can say that not everyone does drugs. Hell you can go to a Bruce Springsteen concert and find people using drugs. I wouldn't call Bruce Springsteen fans druggies.

no even close pal. sorry.

Posted: 8/22/2005 9:12:35 PM EDT

[#32]

Forgive me if I dont show pity but as far as im concerned the officers can sick dogs and beat anyone that supplies drugs to children in my book. Thats all these parties are is teens and very young adults doing drugs and zoning out on the music.

For the people showing pity, how would you feel if your child went to a friends house and you didnt know they went to the concert and your child OD'ed , was sexually assulted, or many of other endings. If you give some stupis ass answer like well its a part of growing up ,please say it now so I can advise you to fix yourself.

Parties like this is just as bad as the other teen fad of the ghetto culture. I work in the prisons in a drug rehab program building and let me tell you these type parties lead many middle and upper class kids to hard core drug problems.

Posted: 8/22/2005 9:13:14 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I wasn't there but this is up a place called Diamond Fork canyon which is up highway 6 in Spanish Fork Canyon. It's got great coverage on google earth if you are curious.

it's very mountainous and pretty, lots of deer elk and turkeys up there. Now imagine 2000 drugged kids and huge music and laser show. Perfect for elk and all the wildlife up there.

I'm not against this kind of party per se but if you want to screw yourself up do it in the city, not out where people are trying to bowhunt and camp with their familes and such.

It's like my dad said when I was little; you probably won't get arrested or in trouble if you are home on time and in bed. If you're not, you'll eventualy get your ass kicked.

he was right.

It's private fucking property. We seem to lose sight of the concept of freedom when it doesn't involve out little black rifles around here don't we.

Why don't you come over to my private property? I'll invite my friend hanibal the canibal and we'll enjoy your liver with fava beans and a nice chianti. Point being: Some conduct, you know like canibalism and hard core drug dealing, has been made illegal even if on private property. I don't make the laws, but there is a process for changing them.

Private property is not the be all end all of legal analysis.

To me, the lynchpin of the fact that the organizers KNEW this was going to be a MAJOR drug party is the fact that the location was not announced until the morning of. Why the secrecy? Gunstock and other major GUN events are planned in advance and the location disclosed prior. Why? Because gun owners are scrupulously legal.

Would you attend a gun event advertized but not announed in terms of location until the mornign of? Wouldn't that give you just a little bit of pause about what sort of crowd the organizers were trying to draw?

Posted: 8/22/2005 9:13:50 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
So a permit and county aproval is needed to assemble on private property.

Who else sees the basic problem here.

NO FAMILY REUNIONS ON PRIVATE PROPERTY...in Utah??????

ETA probably the law refers to ticketed events.

Posted: 8/22/2005 9:33:55 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
I'm currious why you posted this here? I mean, I love trance, but....

I post this here because it makes me concerned for our rights as citizens of The United States of America.

I absolutely have no doubt that there were drugs at this concert or "rave". I also think that many, if not the majority of these people were sober, law abiding citizens who were there to listen to music.

Let's look at a few things here:

People were there with tents, intending to camp overnight. Is there a law that prohibits becoming intoxicated while camping? These people that were there for the night were forced to get into their cars and drive away. THEN, they were arrested for DUI.

These same people that were there for the night, had to leave their tents and personal posessions, even if they had done nothing illegal, were of age, and not intoxicated.

This bust was well planned, and the "rave" could have been prevented, instead of being stopped in the middle of the night. What a waste of people's time. More tax revenue though, eh?

Why should people that believe that they are participating in a legal activity be subjected to police brutality and be treated as criminals for asking questions?

I feel the same way about gun owners. Once you turn your back to unethical treatment of law abiding citizens, we are all screwed. Some of you may feel that these kids are scumbag druggies that got what they deserved, but how will you feel when your rights as a gun owner are trampled on in a similar manner and people turn their backs on you because they feel that your are some sort of tinfoil hat wearing vigilante that wants to overthrow the government?

The security guards that were confiscating drugs from concert goers were arrested for posession of the drugs that were confiscated from concert goers. Wouldn't that be like arresting the police that confiscated drugs from the concert goers for posession of drugs? WTF?

Anyways, those are some of my thoughts on the matter, take them as you will.

Posted: 8/22/2005 9:48:38 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm currious why you posted this here? I mean, I love trance, but....

I post this here because it makes me concerned for our rights as citizens of The United States of America.

I absolutely have no doubt that there were drugs at this concert or "rave". I also think that many, if not the majority of these people were sober, law abiding citizens who were there to listen to music.

Let's look at a few things here:

People were there with tents, intending to camp overnight. Is there a law that prohibits becoming intoxicated while camping? These people that were there for the night were forced to get into their cars and drive away. THEN, they were arrested for DUI.

These same people that were there for the night, had to leave their tents and personal posessions, even if they had done nothing illegal, were of age, and not intoxicated.

This bust was well planned, and the "rave" could have been prevented, instead of being stopped in the middle of the night. What a waste of people's time. More tax revenue though, eh?

Why should people that believe that they are participating in a legal activity be subjected to police brutality and be treated as criminals for asking questions?

I feel the same way about gun owners. Once you turn your back to unethical treatment of law abiding citizens, we are all screwed. Some of you may feel that these kids are scumbag druggies that got what they deserved, but how will you feel when your rights as a gun owner are trampled on in a similar manner and people turn their backs on you because they feel that your are some sort of tinfoil hat wearing vigilante that wants to overthrow the government?

The security guards that were confiscating drugs from concert goers were arrested for posession of the drugs that were confiscated from concert goers. Wouldn't that be like arresting the police that confiscated drugs from the concert goers for posession of drugs? WTF?

Anyways, those are some of my thoughts on the matter, take them as you will.

Well, I went to your rave site and spent an hour reviewing the posts.

I see a lot of claims that there were proper permits, but no records or documentation supporting those claims so far.

I'll keep an eye on it, but frankly, the ravers will lose this battle in the court of public opinion based on the "morning of" announcemnt of the location, as well as the reports of rampant drug use in terms of "really hard shit."

The American public is pretty open minded, for all pratical purposes, when it comes to drinking and marijuana.

But the stuff referenced in the news reports will turn off the general public as will the number of very young minors in attendance.

Posted: 8/22/2005 9:49:54 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm currious why you posted this here? I mean, I love trance, but....

I post this here because it makes me concerned for our rights as citizens of The United States of America.

I absolutely have no doubt that there were drugs at this concert or "rave". I also think that many, if not the majority of these people were sober, law abiding citizens who were there to listen to music.

Let's look at a few things here:

People were there with tents, intending to camp overnight. Is there a law that prohibits becoming intoxicated while camping? These people that were there for the night were forced to get into their cars and drive away. THEN, they were arrested for DUI.

These same people that were there for the night, had to leave their tents and personal posessions, even if they had done nothing illegal, were of age, and not intoxicated.

This bust was well planned, and the "rave" could have been prevented, instead of being stopped in the middle of the night. What a waste of people's time. More tax revenue though, eh?

Why should people that believe that they are participating in a legal activity be subjected to police brutality and be treated as criminals for asking questions?

I feel the same way about gun owners. Once you turn your back to unethical treatment of law abiding citizens, we are all screwed. Some of you may feel that these kids are scumbag druggies that got what they deserved, but how will you feel when your rights as a gun owner are trampled on in a similar manner and people turn their backs on you because they feel that your are some sort of tinfoil hat wearing vigilante that wants to overthrow the government?

The security guards that were confiscating drugs from concert goers were arrested for posession of the drugs that were confiscated from concert goers. Wouldn't that be like arresting the police that confiscated drugs from the concert goers for posession of drugs? WTF?

Anyways, those are some of my thoughts on the matter, take them as you will.

Why even waste your time trying to explain it to some of these folks, they will never get it, one guy up above tried to equate my private property statement by inviting me to an even to have my liver eaten ( no thanks BTW, I have the freedom to choose, fuck there is that F word again, don't let it get around )

This is the biggest problem I see with trying to keep freedoms like RKBA shouldn't it be just as important as the right to assemble for whatever reason, say perhaps your monthly militia meeting.

We've gotten so used to having things taken away from us for our own good that we just can't see the underlying evil in these restrictions. Heven forbid people are responsable for themselves ( if it's your kid there then maybe YOU fucked up raising them ).

Posted: 8/22/2005 9:51:23 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
stupid ravers.

I guess it would be kind of funny if they just said "stupid gun owners" when they confiscate all our guns someday.

Having been to a rave party more than once I can say that not everyone does drugs. Hell you can go to a Bruce Springsteen concert and find people using drugs. I wouldn't call Bruce Springsteen fans druggies.

no even close pal. sorry.

Do you care to break that down for me or is that all you can come up with?

Have you ever been to a rave? How would you know?

Posted: 8/22/2005 9:53:36 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Take that ya dirty~~hippies~~ gunowners!

Just wait...

You have nothing to fear from a pissed off hippie except an awful stench, but a pissed off gunowner, however...

they have an equal vote which is what I fear.

Posted: 8/22/2005 9:59:16 PM EDT

[#40]

Well, the one video they seem to have does show a cop kicking someone pretty hard on the ground, but I can't acertain whether they were resisting or not, since I can't see what led up to the arrest. I do think it was silly to show up with more gear than our military wears in Iraq though. LOL I'm fairly certain the military gear wasn't needed.

Either way, without more video or proof of what happened, it's one side versus the other, and even when the cops abuse their power and step way over the line, the law and status quo are always behind their back. Hard to really comment on no info, IMO however.

Posted: 8/22/2005 10:14:58 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
The Sheriff's statement:

.....
Utah County mass gathering ordinance prohibits the gathering of two hundred and fifty or more persons without a permit, bond, and Utah County Commission approval.

All persons conducting outdoor activities or events attracting large numbers of people are required to comply with Salt Lake Valley Health Department (SLVHD) Regulations. If your event lasts more than 2 hours or attracts over 500 people you must obtain a Mass Gathering Permit. Proper liquid and solid waste removal, sanitary facilities, drinking water, first aid, noise and liability insurance coverage is required and will be reviewed by the SLVHD.

Well, without reviewing any more of the evidence there's at least one example of where the cops were full of shit from the get-go. But I'm also pretty sure of several other things:

-The rave kid's statement is undoubtably an exaggeration of want went down.

-The Sheriff's statement likewise inaccurately overstates his case.

-Here we have another probable violation of the Constitution, increased evidence of the dangerous and unneccesary militarization of the police and abuses of police power in pursuit of this goddamn stupid war on drugs.

-This place reeks of hypocrisy. The drug war has been used as an excuse to erode our Constitutional rights for decades, primarily our 2nd and 4th Amendment rights. When the fuck are people going to wake up and see that it could be gun owners tomorrow just as easily as it's rave goers today? Maybe when it's your kid getting kicked in the stomach after going to an event that the local sheriff decides he doesn't want occurring in his county. Yeah, and I read how many arrests were made. If they're arresting folks for video-taping, I'm not surprised. If you want to make the argument that this was actually a dangerous group of people, let's come back to this subject in a couple months and see how many convictions come out of this incident.

Posted: 8/22/2005 10:16:30 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
Well, the one video they seem to have does show a cop kicking someone pretty hard on the ground, but I can't acertain whether they were resisting or not, since I can't see what led up to the arrest. I do think it was silly to show up with more gear than our military wears in Iraq though. LOL I'm fairly certain the military gear wasn't needed.

Either way, without more video or proof of what happened, it's one side versus the other, and even when the cops abuse their power and step way over the line, the law and status quo are always behind their back. Hard to really comment on no info, IMO however.

I agree. It is difficult to form an opinion without all of the details/videos. However the complaint about the confiscation of cameras does raise ire.

Posted: 8/22/2005 10:32:04 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
Quoted:
The Sheriff's statement:

.....
Utah County mass gathering ordinance prohibits the gathering of two hundred and fifty or more persons without a permit, bond, and Utah County Commission approval.

All persons conducting outdoor activities or events attracting large numbers of people are required to comply with Salt Lake Valley Health Department (SLVHD) Regulations. If your event lasts more than 2 hours or attracts over 500 people you must obtain a Mass Gathering Permit. Proper liquid and solid waste removal, sanitary facilities, drinking water, first aid, noise and liability insurance coverage is required and will be reviewed by the SLVHD.

Well, without reviewing any more of the evidence there's at least one example of where the cops were full of shit from the get-go.

You thing so?

I take it as a bunch of ARFCOMMER's talking out of their asses.

The RAVE event was in UTAH county.

The regs referencing 500 people are those of the general Utah state administrative code.

Utah county has, as is their right, adopted more strict requirements which a cursory search of their site reveals to be here: www.utahcountyonline.com/apps/WebLink/Dept/ATTY/Chap13.pdf

(tell acrobat to search for "large public assembly").

I'll quote for you:

13-4-2-1. Required.
No person shall permit, maintain, promote, conduct,
advertise, act as entrepreneur, undertake, organize,
manage, or sell or give tickets to an actual or
reasonably anticipated assembly of two hundred fifty
(250) or more people which continues or can
reasonably be expected to continue for twelve (12) or
more consecutive hours, whether on public or private
property unless a license to hold the assembly has
first been issued by the County Commissioners. (Ord.
No. 1971-4, Section 2, 7-7-71)
13-4-2-2. Application.
Application for a license to hold an actual or
anticipated assembly of two hundred fifty (250) or
more persons shall be made in writing to the County
Commission at least thirty (30) days in advance of
such assembly.

So, sounds like if these guys went and got a state permit and did not look into the county's more exacting requirements, they're probably fucked.

Posted: 8/22/2005 10:34:14 PM EDT

[#44]

Why even waste your time trying to explain it to some of these folks, they will never get it, one guy up above tried to equate my private property statement by inviting me to an even to have my liver eaten ( no thanks BTW, I have the freedom to choose, fuck there is that F word again, don't let it get around )

I do not believe that for one second. I have been reading this boad for months, and I know that there are a few dumbasses, but many of the people here are able to see through the bullshit.

This is the biggest problem I see with trying to keep freedoms like RKBA shouldn't it be just as important as the right to assemble for whatever reason, say perhaps your monthly militia meeting.

Absolutely. Constitutional rights are Constitutional rights. We should support them, even if they don't pertain to our particular cause at the moment. Freedom of speech, right to bear arms, all of it.

We've gotten so used to having things taken away from us for our own good that we just can't see the underlying evil in these restrictions. Heven forbid people are responsable for themselves ( if it's your kid there then maybe YOU fucked up raising them ).

That is what happened to Germany in the 1930's, and that is what concerns me.

I am a patriotic American, tax paying citizen, but I do not believe that innocent citizens deserve to be treated as criminals.

Posted: 8/22/2005 10:40:39 PM EDT

[#45]

So, sounds like if these guys went and got a state permit and did not look into the county's more exacting requirements, they're probably fucked.

Sorry, you're right, my misread. The obvious solution is to punish this oversight by deploying SWAT, helicopters, and K-9, and having them beat young people and arrest them for operating a video camera.

Posted: 8/22/2005 10:46:02 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:
So, sounds like if these guys went and got a state permit and did not look into the county's more exacting requirements, they're probably fucked.

Sorry, you're right, my misread. The obvious solution is to punish this oversight by deploying SWAT, helicopters, and K-9, and having them beat young people and arrest them for operating a video camera.

Don't misunderstand me. You didn't fuck up. The guy who posted Salt Lake County regs without seeing that this event was in Utah county misled everyone, inadvertantly I am sure.

Relative to the tenor of the LEO's resposne, please check my post above: I'm positive that the JBT's probably got over exhuberant, and they need to be called to account for it.

But these Raver's fucked up.

If I were to show up at the million mom march and fire an illegal Uzi into the air, you all would lament the unjust laws in improper infringement on the 2nd amendment that would land me in federal pound me in the ass prison, but you would not be surprised, no?

My own stupidity would have something to do with my situation, don't you think?

I've been to very large events of this sort and it can be done right.

But the sheeple don't like these things (guns and raves), and if you give the authorities the excuse and the probable cause (druge use and sales in open site, including to undercover agents) they you're begging to get fucked over by "the man."

Posted: 8/22/2005 10:52:03 PM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:
Quoted:
So, sounds like if these guys went and got a state permit and did not look into the county's more exacting requirements, they're probably fucked.

Sorry, you're right, my misread. The obvious solution is to punish this oversight by deploying SWAT, helicopters, and K-9, and having them beat young people and arrest them for operating a video camera.

Don't misunderstand me. You didn't fuck up. The guy who posted Salt Lake County regs without seeing that this event was in Utah county misled everyone, inadvertantly I am sure.

Relative to the tenor of the LEO's resposne, please check my post above: I'm positive that the JBT's probably got over exhuberant, and they need to be called to account for it.

But these Raver's fucked up.

If I were to show up at the million mom march and fire an illegal Uzi into the air, you all would lament the unjust laws in improper infringement on the 2nd amendment that would land me in federal pound me in the ass prison, but you would not be surprised, no?

My own stupidity would have something to do with my situation, don't you think?

I've been to very large events of this sort and it can be done right.

But the sheeple don't like these things (guns and raves), and if you give the authorities the excuse and the probable cause (druge use and sales in open site, including to undercover agents) they you're begging to get fucked over by "the man."

OK, yeah, granted. Sorry, it's late and my reading comprehension is not what it should be.

My only comment would be that, given the way these big busts have run in the past, I would be surprised if more than a handful of actual convictions come out of this thing.

Posted: 8/22/2005 11:05:16 PM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:

We've gotten so used to having things taken away from us for our own good that we just can't see the underlying evil in these restrictions. Heven forbid people are responsable for themselves ( if it's your kid there then maybe YOU fucked up raising them ).

That is what happened to Germany in the 1930's, and that is what concerns me.

I am a patriotic American, tax paying citizen, but I do not believe that innocent citizens deserve to be treated as criminals.

I think you're being a little hysterical. This is just a heavy-handed version of Footloose. Youth dance culture is finally making inroads into the squarest, most conservative state in the US. The sheriff like a lot of arfkommers asks "What is this rave business?", does a little research from other law-enforcement sources and of course, only reads about instances of how these parties came afoul of the law. "Drugs? Sexual assault? Not in this county! I have to protect the moral fiber of my community and of course, the children!" Mounting airborne raids with paramilitary officers seems a leetle excessive for busting up a dance party, and a fairly responsible and well-organized one at that.

But it's Utah. A guy I know was driving through Utah, was stopped by the cops for something like speeding. The cop saw a lighter, asked if he smoked, to which he said "No." That counted as probable cause, ordered him out of the car and was searched. When a little bag of pot was found, he was jailed. Utah is a very uptight state.

Posted: 8/22/2005 11:06:52 PM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
I think you're being a little hysterical. This is just a heavy-handed version of Footloose. Youth dance culture is finally making inroads into the squarest, most conservative state in the US.

Posted: 8/22/2005 11:09:21 PM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:
So a permit and county aproval is needed to assemble on private property.

Who else sees the basic problem here.

+1

[edit]Bleh....Mormons.[/edit]

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Police attack ravers near Salt Lake City, Utah (Page 1 of 3)

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