One of my partners found a very drunk Marine Lt last night pissing in the bar parking lot, less then 30' from the front door of the bar. He was standing next to the open door of his SUV, vehicle running. Pretty clear he got sloppy drunk in the bar and was planning to drive home after making the parking lot smell like tijuana.

My partner ticketed him for public urination.  He could have taken him to jail on the charge but cut him a break...He could have cited him for drunk in public but cut him a break...He could have handed him over to the MP's but cut him a break...He could have listed his rank and unit addres on the ticket but cut him a break and listed his off base apartment so his Bn XO wouldnt find out.

The Lt was a beligerant little prick and threatened the arresting officer when he realized he was getting a ticket.  Thats the kind of off duty conduct I expect from a Lcpl, not an officer of Marines. He was more drunken frat boy than officer & gentleman....

WTF is the USMC comming too when a guy like that is qualified to be a platoon commander?

Honestly you should have taken him in and had him call his OOD, that conduct is not tolerated.  A couple of years ago, my BN kept a 2ndLt from making 1stLt for the same reasons.  

Quoted: Honestly you should have taken him in and had him call his OOD, that conduct is not tolerated.  A couple of years ago, my BN kept a 2ndLt from making 1stLt for the same reasons.

+1

Take his ass to jail.  He's no different from anyone else.

I am surprised that a Lt. in the Marines acted this way. Virtually every Marine I've ever known was a stand-up guy.

Drunk?  Anything it takes to keep him off the road.  Surprising conduct from an officer.

Depends? Did he just get back from a war zone? Did his old lady dump him becasue she won't deal with what he does for a living? or is he a prick LT?

Should have hauled his ass in.  There is no excuse for this type of conduct, no matter what rank they are.
Also five answer polls do not work right, #4 and #5 always have the same number of votes.

Quoted: Take his ass to jail.  He's no different from anyone else.

I disagree to a certain extent. Knowing that they are risking their ass in Iraq and afganistan a couple times in a four year enlistment, we have been very reluctant to cite or arrest Marines for disorderly conduct type crimes. We expect young enlisted Marines to blow off steam in sometime inappropriate ways, but officers should set a higher standard.

Quoted: One of my partners found a very drunk Marine Lt last night pissing in the bar parking lot My partner ticketed him for public urination.

I do your job.

That being said, your partner is a dick. An active duty Marine, serving his country, and your partner ticketed him for taking a piss outside a bar? I'm speechless. You should be ashamed for allowing your partner to ticket an active duty serviceman for something so trivial.

Quoted: Quoted: One of my partners found a very drunk Marine Lt last night pissing in the bar parking lot My partner ticketed him for public urination.   I do your job. That being said, your partner is a dick. An active duty Marine, serving his country, and your partner ticketed him? I'm speechless. You should be ashamed for allowing your partner to ticket an active duty serviceman for something so trivial.

Call the MP's and the instant he gave your partner shit he should have arrested him.
Cut the guy a break?  WTF?
This is someone you are supposed to be able to hold to a much higher standard.
I don't give a crap if he was a LT or a LCPL the behavior was unbecoming regardless.
He still is required to report the offense to his chain of command but probably won't
since he has already displayed a lack of character.  Your partner may want to go ahead
and do the USMC and the American Taxpayer a favor by reporting the incident anyways.

WTF is the USMC comming too when a guy like that is qualified to be a platoon commander?
Thanks to your partner he may remain one...  or not.

Quoted: Quoted: One of my partners found a very drunk Marine Lt last night pissing in the bar parking lot My partner ticketed him for public urination.   I do your job.

Then you should understand the importance of reveiwing to totality of the circumstances is such situations.

FWIW the arresting officer just returned from an Iraq deployment and is an 06 in the USMC/R.

Quoted: Quoted: One of my partners found a very drunk Marine Lt last night pissing in the bar parking lot My partner ticketed him for public urination.   I do your job. That being said, your partner is a dick. An active duty Marine, serving his country, and your partner ticketed him for taking a piss outside a bar? I'm speechless. You should be ashamed for allowing your partner to ticket an active duty serviceman for something so trivial.

No flame, but doesn't this part bother you:

He was standing next to the open door of his SUV, vehicle running.

I read it as the cop was completely cutting this officer some slack.  

AR15fan,

How did the officer get home?

There usually isn't much difference in age between a Lt and a LCPL. You really shouldn't be too surprised that they act the same.

Thanks for cutting him some slack though. Perhaps when he sobers up, he'll realize how much of an ass he really was and appreciate what you did for him.

Quoted:   AR15fan, How did the officer get home?

Another butter bar, who was sober, drove him home in the drunk Lt's SUV.

Quoted: There usually isn't much difference in age between a Lt and a LCPL.

Lcpls are 18/19.

Lts are 22-25.

Thanks for cutting him some slack though.

dont thank me, it wasnt my call.  I felt bad for him for getting the ticket but wanted to put my boot in his ass whn i heard him threaten the arresting officer.

Quoted: No flame, but doesn't this part bother you: He was standing next to the open door of his SUV, vehicle running.

I agree completely about stopping him from driving. I hate drunk drivers. There is something called discretion however that could have been applied to this situation. We're not talking about some POS gangbanger or street dealer. We're talking about an active duty serviceman serving his country in time of war. God knows what this man has seen/done on our behalf overseas. We're talking about somebody taking a piss outside a bar here, not a violent felony.

Maybe I work in too busy an area and see this as trivial. I apologize to anyone I've offended, but my feelings are stong on this one.

Quoted: Honestly you should have taken him in and had him call his OOD, that conduct is not tolerated.  A couple of years ago, my BN kept a 2ndLt from making 1stLt for the same reasons.

+1
Unlike the philosophy behind thin blue line the officer corps wants to weed out those who are unfit for the job.

Quoted: Call the MP's and the instant he gave your partner shit he should have arrested him. Cut the guy a break?  WTF? This is someone you are supposed to be able to hold to a much higher standard. I don't give a crap if he was a LT or a LCPL the behavior was unbecoming regardless. He still is required to report the offense to his chain of command but probably won't since he has already displayed a lack of character.  Your partner may want to go ahead and do the USMC and the American Taxpayer a favor by reporting the incident anyways. WTF is the USMC comming too when a guy like that is qualified to be a platoon commander? Thanks to your partner he may remain one...  or not.

+1

Quoted: Quoted: Honestly you should have taken him in and had him call his OOD, that conduct is not tolerated.  A couple of years ago, my BN kept a 2ndLt from making 1stLt for the same reasons.   +1 Unlike the philosophy behind thin blue line the officer corps wants to weed out those who are unfit for the job.

+1000.  Officers are held to a higher standard.  Threatening a police officer is conduct unbecoming, whether he was drunk at the time does not matter.  

i

If I'd been the officer, I'd have not cut him slack. The guy was planning to drive home sloppy ass drunk, then when he threatened the police officer, that would have iced the cake. So now there is a LT walking around thinking "I show my little bars and I get off with the police", so instead of a lesson learned from him, it will probably happen again.

I can see the headlines "Intoxicated Marine Lieutenant Kills Family of Four Returning from Six Flags in Accident".

Quoted: My partner ticketed him for public urination.

HE let a known drunk person who he KNEW WAS GOING TO BE DRIVING go?

WTF is the USMC comming too when a guy like that is qualified to be a platoon commander?

Shouldn't you be asking that of your cop buddy the same question?  Why is he NOT enforcing the law?

SGat1r5

Quoted: Quoted: Take his ass to jail.  He's no different from anyone else. I disagree to a certain extent.

So you are saying it's okay for some of the people to break some of the laws some of the time?

Is that what you are saying?

Sgat1r5

Quoted: Quoted: Take his ass to jail.  He's no different from anyone else. I disagree to a certain extent. Knowing that they are risking their ass in Iraq and afganistan a couple times in a four year enlistment, we have been very reluctant to cite or arrest Marines for disorderly conduct type crimes. We expect young enlisted Marines to blow off steam in sometime inappropriate ways, but officers should set a higher standard.

But it's okay for them to drive drunk or impaired. If I say I'm a vet, does that get me a pass?

Should have hauled his ass to the cross bar hotel. Conduct Unbecoming comes to mind.

Quoted: Quoted: One of my partners found a very drunk Marine Lt last night pissing in the bar parking lot My partner ticketed him for public urination.   I do your job. That being said, your partner is a dick. An active duty Marine, serving his country, and your partner ticketed him for taking a piss outside a bar? I'm speechless. You should be ashamed for allowing your partner to ticket an active duty serviceman for something so trivial.

Are you saying you're a cop?  So you'd let someone piss all over the place, threaten you, drive, and treat you like shit?  Then you must be one great cop.  

It doesn't matter if is a soldier, cop, etc.  He acts like a dumb dildo then accept the consequences.  

I guess you guys missed the bit about the sober Marine driving his drunk ass home.

Quoted: I guess you guys missed the bit about the sober Marine driving his drunk ass home.

So?

You think this was the first time this guy got drunk and then tried to drive?  By letting him go the cop was basically telling this Marine that it is okay to drink and try to drive as long as you don't get caught.

And if you do get caught then the law doesn't apply to you.

That is BS.  If you are drunk and they keys are in the igintion you are considered drinking and driving...PERIOD.

This Marine was given a free pass fpr GROSSLY violating the law and next time he may kill someone.

Then what will you say?

Sgat1r5

Quoted: Quoted: I guess you guys missed the bit about the sober Marine driving his drunk ass home. So? You think this was the first time this guy got drunk and then tried to drive?  By letting him go the cop was basically telling this Marine that it is okay to drink and try to drive as long as you don't get caught. And if you do get caught then the law doesn't apply to you. That is BS.  If you are drunk and they keys are in the igintion you are considered drinking and driving...PERIOD. This Marine was given a free pass fpr GROSSLY violating the law and next time he may kill someone. Then what will you say? Sgat1r5

That's going to depend alot on the jurisdiction and DA's office.  If he's not in control of a vehicle at the immediate momen the cop sees him alot of DA's office won't take DWI charges.  Hell it's sometimes hard to get DWI charges here on people that are passed out drunk in a car in a parking lot with it running.  

Quoted: Quoted: My partner ticketed him for public urination. HE let a known drunk person who he KNEW WAS GOING TO BE DRIVING go? WTF is the USMC comming too when a guy like that is qualified to be a platoon commander? Shouldn't you be asking that of your cop buddy the same question?  Why is he NOT enforcing the law? SGat1r5

Quoted: Quoted: AR15fan, How did the officer get home? Another butter bar, who was sober, drove him home in the drunk Lt's SUV.

To jail he'd go.  I don't give a rat's ass about his rank,  I put a AF full Colonel in jail for punching his Girlfriend.  I'll certainly bust a LT, and I'd be SURE his command knew.'

"Filth of the service"  is how a SGM once described people like this to me.

Officers are the worst.  That corporal, even drunk, is usually more professional.  

Quoted: I guess you guys missed the bit about the sober Marine driving his drunk ass home.

His original intent obviously was to drive himself home or off a cliff, if we were lucky.

There obviously was an all around lack of good judgement in this case:
by the Marine, by the Police Officer on the scene and by the Marine's buddy who was supposedly
sober.  Why wasn't the sober Marine looking out for his comrade to begin with?  Probably tired of
taking care of his dumb ass to begin with, but nothing a sucker-punch wouldn't take care of.

Quoted: One of my partners found a very drunk Marine Lt last night pissing in the bar parking lot, less then 30' from the front door of the bar. He was standing next to the open door of his SUV, vehicle running. Pretty clear he got sloppy drunk in the bar and was planning to drive home after making the parking lot smell like tijuana. My partner ticketed him for public urination.  He could have taken him to jail on the charge but cut him a break...He could have cited him for drunk in public but cut him a break...He could have handed him over to the MP's but cut him a break...He could have listed his rank and unit addres on the ticket but cut him a break and listed his off base apartment so his Bn XO wouldnt find out. The Lt was a beligerant little prick and threatened the arresting officer when he realized he was getting a ticket.  Thats the kind of off duty conduct I expect from a Lcpl, not an officer of Marines. He was more drunken frat boy than officer & gentleman.... WTF is the USMC comming too when a guy like that is qualified to be a platoon commander?

I would not "expect" that kind of behavior from ANY service member, let alone a Marine officer.

Unfortunatly, your friend may not give the next guy a break, because of this "jarhead".

Too bad your partner couldn't tear up the ticket, and write another, with the "asshole" charge being taken into consideration.............

I once put an Army Captain in jail for DWI when he was involved in a wreck.  He got belligerent and actually fought us as we were booking him in.  We were (maybe) a little rough on him as we put him in jail.

The next evening I got a call from my Shift Captain that I had a visitor at the station.  It was the Captain, who wanted to apologise for his rude behavior and to thank us for our kind treatment of him.

I guess he was so drunk he forgot about the butt kicking he got.

Quoted: One of my partners found a very drunk Marine Lt last night pissing in the bar parking lot, less then 30' from the front door of the bar. He was standing next to the open door of his SUV, vehicle running. Pretty clear he got sloppy drunk in the bar and was planning to drive home after making the parking lot smell like tijuana. My partner ticketed him for public urination.  He could have taken him to jail on the charge but cut him a break...He could have cited him for drunk in public but cut him a break...He could have handed him over to the MP's but cut him a break...He could have listed his rank and unit addres on the ticket but cut him a break and listed his off base apartment so his Bn XO wouldnt find out. The Lt was a beligerant little prick and threatened the arresting officer when he realized he was getting a ticket. Thats the kind of off duty conduct I expect from a Lcpl, not an officer of Marines. He was more drunken frat boy than officer & gentleman.... WTF is the USMC comming too when a guy like that is qualified to be a platoon commander?

Hey, piss off. That kind of shit isn't acceptable from an E-3, either.

Should have waited for the drunk to get behind the wheel of his vehicle then zapped him for DUI and public urination.

YOU two failed to do your job, and you have the balls to whinge about what the Marine Officer was doing.

The Law is the Law - apply it EQUALLY or Not At All.

Good on your partner,  while the job our boys in uniform do is extremely noble and important, it doesn't exempt them from the law or common sense!  They fuck up, they deserve to be punished, and your partner quite possibly saved this Marine officer's career the way he handled it!

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: One of my partners found a very drunk Marine Lt last night pissing in the bar parking lot My partner ticketed him for public urination.   I do your job. Then you should understand the importance of reveiwing to totality of the circumstances is such situations. FWIW the arresting officer just returned from an Iraq deployment and is an 06 in the USMC/R.

I see you said "arresting officer".

Your partner made the hard choice, but the right one.

He made the right choice as a Police officer, as a Marine Corps Officer, (in high tradition IMHO), and as a Man.

Methinks that drunk officer flipped shit to the wrong cop, at the wrong time.......

(Tell him thanks for his service.........(BOTH of them!!!  )

Errr....ferget my post above.

His command AT LEAST should have been notified.

A high percentage of returnees suffer from PTSD, and don't even know it.

His command should know of this incident, the guy could be in treatment now, and they need to know.

Just like everybody else you can encounter out there, you don't really know this guy.

He may need different/more help than you all gave him.

Notify command..........please.

Quoted: Why wasn't the sober Marine looking out for his comrade to begin with?  Probably tired of taking care of his dumb ass to begin with, but nothing a sucker-punch wouldn't take care of.

Excellent point. You go out with friends, in part, to keep you from doing something stupid. That's where the loyalty lies, not in some misguided sense of loyalty that covers up misconduct. That's not being loyal. That's putting your friend and yourself above your shipmates, your service, and your nation.

There's no excuse for being a drunken idiot.

And no one in the service should ever play the "I'm in the service, let me off with only a warning" (for any kind of infraction).  It makes the rest of us look like asses.  Be a man, own up to your mistakes.  Professional courtesy is just that, a courtesy.  If I was an LEO, and the person was "yeah, you got me, I apologize.  And it'll never happen again" then maybe, I'd consider letting them walk, but only after a stern lecture.  Now if they come off with the holier than thou attitude, all bets are off.

Granted, pissing in a parking lot is not the crime of the century, but if you're stupid enough to do it in the presence of a LEO, well then, nice job.  You earned yourself that citation.  Use the pisser in the bar BEFORE you leave.  Don't tie the LEOs hands by being a dickhead.

Whatever happened to the buddy system?  You know, the designated thinker.  The one who makes sure everyone gets home in one piece.  The AF is so anal now, we carry "wingman" cards.

Edit: typo...

A few thoughts, having worn the uniform myself; both Navy and Marine, Officer and Enlisted.
I think that is appropriate and common for the civilian authorities to give servicemen a pass on minor issues especialy during time of war.
The Marine's problem was being s-faced in public and becoming belligerant when caught. Had he been polite and courteous to the civilian police officer, I think it would have been OK (although NOT expected) for the LEO to cut him some slack after ascertaining that he could get home safely (cab or buddy). I've even had LEO's drop off a few of my boys drunk at the gate rather than cite them.  Even though HE didn't charge them, I had those that were being jerks in town doing the article 15 dance and those that were just drunk but otherwise not a problem just sleep it off.
The moment the Marine became hostile with a civilian authority, they should have simply gone by the book...hell, I'd help 'em drag him off....just for embarassing MY MARINE CORPS!
Officers are human, and do need at times to blow off steam and have some fun....just with a wee bit more disgression. As a young 0-1/0-2, I've been carried out of an OClub or two...that's just part of being in a very dangerous profession.
I'm not sure I'd agree with a DWI charge...he was not in control of the vehicle. Sure it could be argued that he could have had intent to commit a crime, but how many of you would like to be arrested and spend thousands of dollars to defend yourself from someone else's dertemination of your intent (Hey, he owned an AR15 so he must have intended to knock over the local bank)
It could also be argued that his intent was to have his buddy drive him home. I can see a defense that his buddy started the car to warm up then went back in to get his wallet, some chick's phone number, etc.
Now urinating in a parking lot......not the end of the world, but would earn him a rather unpleasant  time in front of my desk.
Another pet peeve of mine...if you've never worn the uniform (STGAR), please try not to tell us what is appropriate behavior for an officer or a Marine, or whatever. You can say that you thought the behavior was rude, boorish, etc. but please don't talk about something being "unbecoming" as you, yourself have never become...you tracking?
With that said, I think that the public urination and belligerance to a civilian LEO were unbecoming and an embaressment and I'd tear him a new one!

Quoted: Officers are human, and do need at times to blow off steam and have some fun....just with a wee bit more disgression. As a young 0-1/0-2, I've been carried out of an OClub or two...that's just part of being in a very dangerous profession.

Too bad, in the Navy at least, the O-clubs are a dying breed.

You know who your friends are when they are carrying your ass out of a bar so as to keep you out of trouble.

Quoted: Quoted: Officers are human, and do need at times to blow off steam and have some fun....just with a wee bit more disgression. As a young 0-1/0-2, I've been carried out of an OClub or two...that's just part of being in a very dangerous profession. Too bad, in the Navy at least, the O-clubs are a dying breed. You know who your friends are when they are carrying your ass out of a bar so as to keep you out of trouble.

Ans that is part of the whole "brothers in arms" concept. Good troops will watch out for each other so that everyone can have fun without getting into trouble.

sounds about right to me, Marines are not known for their people skills

Quoted: Quoted: There usually isn't much difference in age between a Lt and a LCPL. Lcpls are 18/19. Lts are 22-25. Thanks for cutting him some slack though. dont thank me, it wasnt my call.  I felt bad for him for getting the ticket but wanted to put my boot in his ass whn i heard him threaten the arresting officer.

Like he said, not much in age difference. 25 year olds still act and behave like 18/19 year olds. Just FYI a 2nd LT can be as young as 21-22 depending on how fast they get their 4-year degree.

If you cannot master yourself, you should not be put in a position where you have power over others.


Going out and drinking, blowing off steam - even getting totally blitzed, is completely acceptable for someone in the service right now.  No matter how drunk, I don't care - they deserve it, and nobody has the right to question or judge.

But, intending to drive drunk, public indecency, threatening the police - shows a complete lack of judgment and self-discipline.  I would NOT want to serve under a man like that.

Well put.

No one is above the law.

I think the guy got off easy. He should be grateful.