XTerra, from what you mention.

Built good, true truck frame, nicely laid out and not super-expensive.

Quoted: XTerra, from what you mention. Built good, true truck frame, nicely laid out and not super-expensive.

So far I haven't heard or ready any major negatives about Xterra from any online reviews or comparisons.

My brother had an escape, and my sister has the mazda escape clone.

Neither of them have had problems, and both seem enthusiastic about them.

I'm tempted to get one myself, when my sport trac wears out.

The Liberty and the Xterra are the only small SUV's with offroad capability. Suzuki makes a small SUV but it can seat up to 7 and is closer to a mid size SUV. I don't know anything about the new H3, "Chevy Colorado"? platform, but the H2 has a really poor reliability rating so I am not expecting good numbers for the H3 either.

All of the other small-UTEs don't have any skid protection and are built off of either sedan or mini van platforms so they have all kinds of critical engine/drive train parts hanging low. Escape/Tribute = Mazda 626, Highlander = Camry, CRV = Civic, and Pilot = Odyssey. These don't have 4 low either.

The 4 Runner a great rig but is larger and more of a mid size 4 door "Explorer" sized SUV.

Quoted: The Liberty and the Xterra are the only small SUV's with offroad capability. Suzuki makes a small SUV but it can seat up to 7 and is closer to a mid size SUV. I don't know anything about the new H3, "Chevy Colorado"? platform, but the H2 has a really poor reliability rating so I am not expecting good numbers for the H3 either. All of the other small-UTEs don't have any skid protection and are built off of either sedan or mini van platforms so they have all kinds of critical engine/drive train parts hanging low. Escape/Tribute = Mazda 626, Highlander = Camry, CRV = Civic, and Pilot = Odyssey. These don't have 4 low either. The 4 Runner a great rig but is larger and more of a mid size 4 door "Explorer" sized SUV.

That's kind of what I've been finding out from comparison researching them.

Good points and well taken.

I would also toss in the Subaru Forrester...great car, inexpensive, rock solid tranny and engine, very low number of defects per 1000 units sold, etc.

I've had a Legacy, Forester, 2003 Pathfinder.  Forester was the most practical and all around good driver.  Pathfinder had monster torque with the VQ and you won't be dissapointed (except at the pump).

With 3.00 per gallon gas looming on the horizon......Forester, Honda CRV, Element, Vibe, Matrix.  All wheel drive and over 20mpg for each.

Sorry...american manufacturers are going to be biting the big one as they continue to push high profit, high dollar full size SUVs and gasoline hits 3.00 per gallon.

Mac, I saw your TCO thing.  Interesting, and it will probably hold true... as long as gas prices don't continue to climb.  

If they do, then the gap will narrow until it closes, and then go the other way.  


I do dig the Xterra.  It's a pretty nice smaller SUV, and if I were to get an SUV, I'd get a smaller one, but as I mentioned before, I have no use for 4wd, so I'd get the 2wd Escape, which might have a smaller  difference in the 'TCO'.  For what I'd use it for, the Escape Hybrid 2wd would be just fine.   And the savings on gas would be nice to boot.   If I wanted a 4x4, and NEEDED 4x4, the Xterra with the nice big powerful V6 would win out.  

Just traded in the Siverado for an 02 Liberty. I already get better mileage than the ol' Chevy,I just didn't need a truck to haul a bag or two of garbage.Still,I already miss the ol' truck!

Quoted: Ford Escape XLT Mazda Tribute s

Sister vehicles.   I bought the Mazda - more for the money, better warranty.


I put 50,000 on it and traded for a bigger vehicle.   I liked it, felt it could use a bit more power, but adequate.

Took it offroading a couple times, surprised everyone along with how well it did.


Buddy has the Ford, and a few times of towing (properly setup) and he's had a lot of issues that appear to be related to the nature of the vehicle - car based.   He also didn't like how it handled towing.

I never towed, can't comment.

The Mazda drives pretty nice - good for folks used to how cars drive.


I've rented a Liberty - pretty small, a bit smaller than the Mazda/Ford.   Bit jittery on the ride, but much more capable.

To do over, I would get the Liberty over the Mazda/Ford - mainly for the true off-road ability (yes, it's not a wrangler)

WAaaahhhhhhh........toyota is the best value @ 5yrs old w/100k and ready for another 100k.Think Taxes and insurance,USED W/All its Toyota w/service records.

My father has a 2002 Liberty; he bought it the same day I bought my 2002 Wrangler. (He spent less money, and came out ahead. He still has it; I dumped the Wrangler last year.)

Comfort-wise: It beat the snot out of the Wrangler. Comfortable seats, steering-wheel mounted radio controls (no more moving hands when you want to change stations, scan, seek, change volume settings, etc), great visibility, damn good gas mileage from a V6 that's more geared for torque than high end, 20+mpg.

Lots of cabin room, especially compared to the Wrangler. Rear seats are ok...but name one vehicle that has great rear seats that costs less than $50k. Always a tradeoff.

Cargo room is good. We could load up for a small range trip without folding down the rear seat (i.e. only 7 or so rifles, maybe 2-3k of ammo)...fold down the rear seat, and things are much more roomy for cargo.

4wd...well, it's a Jeep. IFS not withstanding, it'll go anywhere, do anything that any normal person could ever expect to encounter. Ground clearance isn't exactily up to the size of a HUMMVW, but hey...you get what you pay for

On-road ride is very comfortable.

I haven't tried off-road in it.

The 3.7L is pretty responsive with the auto. If I had to estimate, it hustled to 60 in 7 or so seconds. Might be off, though.

I hear good things about the new diesel offering. Hell, it's a Benz diesel. You could lube it with water and feed it wax-infested diesel to run on. It'd still run longer than Communism ever will.

Also...it should be noted that my father likes changing vehicles every other year or so. He hasen't even thought about ditching the Liberty.

Reliability wise, he hasen't had any problems that weren't covered under warantee and/or took the vehicle out of action for longer than a couple hours at the local wrench.


Admittidly, he's got less than 75k on the clock. I can't speak for long-term yet.

Cabin wind noise is practically non-existant for a vehicle like that.


Hm, what else...

Oh, the only oddity on his:

His driver's door said Cherokee. The passenger door said Liberty. Apparently those crazy canucks stuck a Canadian/export door on the drivers side, and the American market door on the passengers side...dealer stripped the decal and re-applied the proper one.

Oh, a word about controls: For those of us used to window controls on the doors...bzzt. All window/door controls are on the center arm console. Takes a bit to get used to, but aparently it works pretty well.

Just my $0.02..


ETChange: Changed mph to mpg...typo.

Quoted: WAaaahhhhhhh........toyota is the best value @ 5yrs old w/100k and ready for another 100k.Think Taxes and insurance,USED W/All its Toyota w/service records.

I already have a Toyota 4Runner - and so I want something a bit smaller size.

But I agree, Toyotas (and Hondas) are well-built bumper-to-bumper.

Quoted: Is that a diesel?

It is a 3.7 V-6.  That engine is Unleaded Fuel Only.

I don't know what the displacement for the new diesel model will be, but I would choose it over the V-6.  The old 4.0 was a much better engine than the 3.7, which is basically the same as the 4.7L V-8 from the Grand Cherokee line, minus 2 cylinders of course.

My sister has the Front wheel drive Pontiac Vibe.  You can get a Vibe in AWD.  It's not suited to off-roading but more to bad weather.  Good storage space and good engine. You could go with the Subaru Forester. Good little car as well!

Quoted: Quoted: You're completely leaving out the additional horsepower and torque provided by the electrical system in the hybrid Escape, man.    The 155hp listed above is for the engine alone, no electical assist.   So is the torque.   It should total peak around 200hp, and I think torque would be around the same.   Sure, it's less than the Xterra, but it's also a bit less $$, and gets about 2x the fuel economy.   Is that really the way the hybrid works - the gas & electric engines work at the same time and power is simply additive? And the Hybird Escape runs about $5K more than the V6 Xterra and about $8K more than the Jeep Liberty. And then there's repair costs... how are Hybrid's repair costs compared to traditional engines?

Yes and No.  You can't merely add the top output for the HSD system licensed from Toyota, but they BOTH WORK TOGETHER and at the same time.  There is Power Split Device which serves as a Continuously Variable Transmission, but in reality it is taking the changing engine RPMs and applying electrical motor power to make the car perform as the driver is asking it.

One major drawback of the HSD system.  Reverse is electrical ONLY, since there is no transmission, the engine can't run in reverse.  Also, the Anti-wheel spin fault protections prevent the spinning of the wheels on slippery surfaces.  Icy hill traction may be limited, and the car will only  ascend until it runs out of traction.  Then it will stop.

Torf,

Is that just the Prius that uses electric for reverse, or does the Escape do it to?  That would be interesting to find out.  

Quoted: Torf, Is that just the Prius that uses electric for reverse, or does the Escape do it to?  That would be interesting to find out.

Since Escape contains licensed technology from Toyota, and the heart of the HSD is the Power Split device, I am extrapolating of course, since I don't have firsthand experience.  IF the Escape has a power split device at the heart of it's licensed system, then I would almost guarantee that the Escape has an electric only reverse.

Side note.  Even if the reverse is electrical only, that doesn't mean the engine can't run.  It can and does, but it doesn't provide the power to the wheels.  Understanding the Power Split Device is the key.

What is the usefull life of the batteries in a hybrid, and what is the cost to replace them?

Only experience I have with an Escape is installing a new transmission due to a broken trans mount (truck was in an accident). The biggest fault I found with the mechanicls, is that you have to remove and split the front transaxle to change the trans fluid filter.

If it were my choice, I would choose the Liberty with the turbo diesel. You get decent 4x4 ability, great fuel milage, and more then likely, the diesel engine will hold its resale valuse much more then the gas engined truck would. Plus the aftermarket world will soon have performance parts for them to increase milage and power. There are already chips availible for the diesel jeeps in Europe, so they will be here before long.

If you do not want a disel engine, then the X Terra looks like a slick rig, and have heard good things about them. Plus you can get a supercharger. Anay type of forced induction is always good.

Quoted: What is the usefull life of the batteries in a hybrid, and what is the cost to replace them? Only experience I have with an Escape is installing a new transmission due to a broken trans mount (truck was in an accident). The biggest fault I found with the mechanicls, is that you have to remove and split the front transaxle to change the trans fluid filter. If it were my choice, I would choose the Liberty with the turbo diesel. You get decent 4x4 ability, great fuel milage, and more then likely, the diesel engine will hold its resale valuse much more then the gas engined truck would. Plus the aftermarket world will soon have performance parts for them to increase milage and power. There are already chips availible for the diesel jeeps in Europe, so they will be here before long. If you do not want a disel engine, then the X Terra looks like a slick rig, and have heard good things about them. Plus you can get a supercharger. Anay type of forced induction is always good.

Batteries are warretied for 100,000 miles, but are rated for 150,000+ miles IIRC.

There are NiMH batteries used in hybrid cars that have logged more than 200.000 miles.  Replacement costs right now run about $3400, and the costs on these has been cut in half over the last 3 years.

NiMH is proven technology, is fully recyclable, and are far less dangerous than NiCad, and lead acid batteries.  Li-ion maybe the next step for hybrid batteries, but the cost is still high.

Just for clarity's sake, I am not recommending the Escape Hybrid.  Questions have been posed about it and I have attempted to clarify a few things about them.

My 99 Jeep Cherokee was problematic.

one recall in the first year.  Drivers side power window motor failed at about 30K. Engine started missing at about 35K.  Maybe the liberty is more reliable though.

My wife just bought a Ford Escape. It drives nice enough. I am 6' and it does not feel cramped to me. The Escape is a good all around compact SUV and good for bad weather driving but it is not an off-road SUV.

I have a 2004 Jeep Liberty Sport. 4wd, 3.7V6, and factory skids. I have had it for over a year now and really like it. The only issue I had was the vacuum valve thingy for the A/C fan control failed causing air to randomly blow out of the defrost vent, floor vent, and dash vent. It was a quick fix.

Gas mileage is a solid 17-18 mpg with a split of 70/30 hwy/city driving. I drove from AZ to PA last April and got a high of 22 hwy. I got that in states that had a 75 mph speed limit. In states where speed limit was 65, I got 20-21 mpg (speed limit was not actual speed I drove, I was 5 to 10 over).

The Libby is very comfortable for me, more so then the Escape. Ride is good but just a tad on the stiff side, which I prefer. Plenty of headroom and leg room even in the back seat.

The only thing I changed on the Libby is the tires. It came from the factory with 215/75/16. Which are basically bicycle tires. I put on 245/70/16, which is the largest you can go without a lift. That was money well spent. I had these tires on when I drove cross-country. My mileage would have been even better with the stock tires.

I have not done any hard wheeling but I do take out into the desert. It just walks over all the ruts that are dug out from running water, which can be rather deep.

The only complaint I have is the gas mileage. I am a little disappointed that I get the same mileage as some full sized pickup trucks. Other than that it is a keeper.

When the warranty is up I plan on lifting it like CavVet's Libby

I had an Escape that I got rid of last year. They get good mileage (I averaged 25mpg), are comfortable (I'm around 6'4"), and have enough cargo capacity for my dog. The 4wd system is good enough for "2 trackin" and light off road work.  I don't know if the new models have user switchable 4wd.

We have a Jeep Liberty as a g-ride at work. It's too small for me, cargo capacity is lacking and it rides a bit rough. It is a capable off roader though.  Mileage is crappy in my experience.

I currently have a Buick Rainier. Nice SUV, air suspension and plenty of gadgets.  The bad side is the high cost, mileage is horrible (15.2 average over 20K miles) and the 4wd system absolutely sucks.  The system turns itself off at every stop sign and kicks back in when the vehicle starts to slip.  I hate the sound and the feel.

If I had a choice right now, I'd go back to my Escape.