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Posted: 8/9/2005 5:30:49 PM EDT
[#1]
Of every $1 collected in federal gas taxes $.90 comes back. States like Alaska get back more than $5 for every dollar collected. The little states in the senate rob the hell out of us.
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Posted: 8/9/2005 5:30:56 PM EDT
[#2]
Governments do a lot of silly things.
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Posted: 8/10/2005 12:41:02 AM EDT
[#3]
at least they're not putting in roundabouts, they're stating that here. what a goat rope.
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Posted: 8/10/2005 12:42:41 AM EDT
[#4]
WTF? Have none of these planners been to France? |
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Posted: 8/10/2005 12:43:03 AM EDT
[#5]
Bridges are the ultimate traffic solution only stop lights on turn lanes.
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Posted: 8/10/2005 1:00:43 AM EDT
[#6]
I believe you answered the "why" with your first words. Time to pack up the dolls and head for America. |
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Posted: 8/10/2005 1:50:44 AM EDT
[#7]
Where, oh where did common sense go? Where, oh where can it be?
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Posted: 8/10/2005 4:34:22 AM EDT
[#8]
a subject i know too well.
1st item is called ramp metering..been around for ages..go to DC and see it work. Specifics of how and why they work are too long to go into here...lets just say they do have their appropriate places of application On HOV lanes...I used to ride a vanpool in DC and carpool lanes are great..there are lots of funny stories of what people tried to get away with as well. The carpool lanes created a phenomena called slug lines in DC....people line up at certain known places around the outlying area (like a mall or shopping center) and then other poeple who would normally drive into work alone...can stop by these lines and pick up a stranger or two. Benefits both ways...driver gets to work faster by using carpool lanes (and they are faster) and slugs get a free ride to work (hence what i considered a derogatory name for these people..slugs for not paying in some way). Some people espouse having ridden in a slug line for 20 years or more and never having paid to get to work. Finally, roundabouts....roundabouts do work..again...given the right application. The idea being that it creates a more free flow traffic because if you approach it and see no one in it, you don't stop and you go thru. You do go thru slower than if free-flow existed but faster than if having to come to a stop situation. We have used them here and not in the best application so they are used sparingly now. Again, virginia has used them in some good areas with great results. Its a way to reduce people running signals and stop signs and getting T-boned. However, I think the key to Sarge's message is that the first two are attempting to be used in CA where nothing ever seems rational  . Essayons |
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Posted: 8/10/2005 4:41:52 AM EDT
[#9]
Florida is just as F'd up.
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Posted: 8/10/2005 4:42:02 AM EDT
[#10]
roundabouts work great unless you're a driver that doesn't grasp the concept.
carpool lanes are full here.... |
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Posted: 8/10/2005 5:27:27 AM EDT
[#11]
Shuddap. SGat1r5 |
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Posted: 8/10/2005 5:33:22 AM EDT
[#12]
I'll take a roundabout over a 4 way stop any day. |
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Posted: 8/10/2005 6:46:48 AM EDT
[#13]
Take the train.
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Posted: 8/10/2005 6:54:47 AM EDT
[#14]
I experienced those while driving in L.A. damn the traffic in that city, even at 4AM it was busy !!!
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Posted: 8/10/2005 6:56:00 AM EDT
[#15]
It's just desserts for all your stupid gun laws that spread. |
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Posted: 8/10/2005 6:59:29 AM EDT
[#16]
metering works, keeps people from trying to cut each other off, people jumping in front of the line, etc.
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Posted: 8/10/2005 7:00:15 AM EDT
[#17]
Too many drivers and cars for the existing roads.
Need a plague or famine. 
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Posted: 8/10/2005 7:01:40 AM EDT
[#18]
What train? And why would I want the .gov to spend billions of dollars on a Monrail that no-one will use? We have car, we have roads...but we also have government that is too stupid to realize when somethingf doesn't work! SGat1r5 |
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Posted: 8/10/2005 7:02:46 AM EDT
[#19]
Metering works for the freeway, but it backs up traffic on the oncoming strrets! I t just moves the problem elsewhere. Sgat1r5 |
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Posted: 8/10/2005 7:14:36 AM EDT
[#20]
Sarge, are these at the end of the ramps? IIRC Interstate 57 near Chicago has the little lights at the end of the ramps. It's just going to create a bigger backlog on the expressway because instead of people entering the expressway at 50-60 MPH they are entering at slower speeds because you can't accelarate to 50-60 MPH from a dead stop, unless you had a Ferrari or a McLaren F1 or something
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Posted: 8/10/2005 7:16:48 AM EDT
[#21]
How do you know no one will use the trains? People that don't drive, people that commute...so on and so forth. Do they even have a train in your part of California, what part do you even live in? |
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Posted: 8/10/2005 7:17:05 AM EDT
[#22]
In IL, the lights are at the END of the ramp, but IIRC, the lights in CA are at the beginning. Hard to believe that something in CA makes more sense than in IL. |
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Posted: 8/10/2005 7:18:39 AM EDT
[#23]
They are on the entrance rams of the freeway. Usually on streets that already have severely heavy traffic. Sgatr15 |
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Posted: 8/10/2005 7:21:21 AM EDT
[#24]
We have light rail, usually it is half full and still it requires LARGE amounts of yearly funding. It usually is uesed by those that don't own a car so it does nothing to reduse traffic, actually it made it worse in some areas because they took a lane away that used to be used for cars. I live in Sacramento, people like to drive here, not take trains. The money spent on trains could have been used for roads and it would solve more traffic problem, but no....that would make sense. Sgat1r5 |
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Posted: 8/10/2005 7:29:11 AM EDT
[#25]
+1. When are you guys going to learn??? 
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Posted: 8/10/2005 7:30:58 AM EDT
[#26]
Antburning on the East Coast must be a VERY common.
Sgatr15 |
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Posted: 8/10/2005 7:42:06 AM EDT
[#27]
Well that explains it...Sacramento seems to be a little different from the rest of CA...at least it looked like a reasonable city when I was there in 2000...but then I was only there for one day.
not sure why the lights would be at the entrance ramp to the interstate for metering...course all our ramps here seem to have a light right before the ramp. Essayons |
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Posted: 8/10/2005 7:43:24 AM EDT
[#28]
that's all i needed to read. |
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Posted: 8/10/2005 7:47:54 AM EDT
[#29]
Lights are at the end of the ramp here (ie, the part closest to traffic) There's no need for super fast acceleration b/c they lights are only active during times when the traffic is moving slowly. I think they work pretty well |
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Posted: 8/10/2005 7:50:51 AM EDT
[#30]
Yeah, until you get behind the people that stop for the yield sign when entering the roundabout, and then stop at every feeder road once they are on it. |
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Posted: 8/10/2005 7:53:57 AM EDT
[#31]
ANother ant bruner! Tell me all you damn southern patriots.... What do YOU do when you have a problem with a law or situation? You all keeping ragging on Cali and claiming you live in a free state yet you STILL HAVE GUN LAWS AND OTHER LAWS DOWN THERE! So when is the south gonna rise again and do something about it? Are are you guys just all talk and no action like you have been for the last 160+ years? Because YOU HAVE LAWS ALSO! You have a 4473 form, you submite your FINGER PRINTS to but a M16! I can go on and on and on but you guys probably won't hear it because you still believe you are free. Well, you are not. Sgat1r5 |
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Posted: 8/10/2005 7:54:32 AM EDT
[#32]
Roundabouts are also under consideration here. and are an exceptionally stupid idea as they want to put them on one of the busiest roads in the county. One that starts ot the Canadian Border and is shared by 18 wheelers. |
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Posted: 8/10/2005 7:58:39 AM EDT
[#33]
IIRC there are a few streets in Chicago that have "traffic circles". They also have these damn cul-de-sacs but they're mainly in one section that I grew up in, not all over. Also they have barriers laid across the intersection that force vehicles to turn right (or left IIRC) onto a particular street. |
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Posted: 8/10/2005 8:19:24 AM EDT
[#34]
I grew up in Mass. where "roundabouts" are called "rotaries". They are on the west end of Cape Cod, and in Middleboro where like 6 highways meet. They work fine. Recently one village near me took out stop lights and put in a rotary, seems to work fine. There are 2 on a pair of intersections by my house. Previously the 2 way and 4 way stops, as well as lowered speed limits had been totally overcome by the traffic. Rotaries are handling them fine. The problem is, each driver has to be smarter than a dull stick for the rotaries to really work........... We have more than a few blunt sticks driving. |
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Posted: 8/10/2005 10:10:25 AM EDT
[#35]
And yes, we in SC, NC, Fl, Ga, Tx, Tn, etc...etc... are a lot more free than you. If you don't like that fact, quit trying to make excuses and VOTE WITH YOUR FEET. |
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Posted: 8/10/2005 10:16:40 AM EDT
[#36]
You first. There are no free states and you are just kidding yourself. And what's this "vote with your feet BS?" Is that what the south teaches? To run away from a fight? You guys shoulkd now better than that but you do not. SGatr15 |
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Posted: 8/10/2005 10:32:53 AM EDT
[#37]
Yes but small ones with lots of exits turn to shit when more the 10 people are in them. Then commut time arrives and its like trying to go through a meat grinder and not get hit by the blades. I do admit that big ones seem to make a huge difference, but also require intelligent drivers, which are rare in this state. So, how much better is WI compared to MA? Though I think NH is more my style. I got to get out of here. |
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Posted: 8/10/2005 10:37:58 AM EDT
[#38]
They put a roundabout in our little town where there used to be a light. It works so much better than before. In fact, it's so much more efficient that they are planning on putting in a few more. I like them a lot. At first I didn't, but now that I'm used to it it's a lot better. The only time it's annoying are when you get the idiots who don't grasp the concept that the people ALREADY IN the roundabout have the right of way. Somehow, they think that a YIELD sign means that THEY have the right of way  , so they pull right out in front of you and you have to slam on the breaks and lay on the horn. Then they give YOU a dirty look as if to say, "hey, I had the right of way buddy! I just had a yield sign". Either that, or you get the people who come to a complete stop when NOBODY is in the round about and then they stop at each exit to the round about. That doesn't happen as often, but at first is was quite annoying. I have yet to actually see an accident in the round about though. |
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Posted: 8/10/2005 10:40:26 AM EDT
[#39]
HOV in DC area fined you $1000, and it's usually going as slow as the regular travel lanes.
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Posted: 8/10/2005 10:49:17 AM EDT
[#40]
The smallish one of the 2 is where a stop sign used to control an off ramp onto a 2 way street. It works FAR better than the stop sign, especially for those trying to make a left turn. The larger one controls a county highway, city street, and highway on-ramp. Used to be controlled by all way stop signs, flashing lights etc. Mutliple crashes, including fatals there before the rotary. Since the rotary went in, not only does traffic flow better, but I generally don't have to stop, due to traffic in the rotary, to get on. The bigger problem is the dopes that don't plan ahead. They pull up to the yield signs, stop, then look left.................... even when there is no traffic near them. Look at traffic BEFORE you get to the yield signs.............. Most good sized intersections can support a multi-lane rotary, and it works better, sometimes even better than traffic lights would've, or have. I like WI a lot better than MA, for most things. |
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Posted: 8/10/2005 10:52:55 AM EDT
[#41]
San Diego County:
All the metered ramps are at in the middle of the ramp. Does give enough time to come up to what should be a reasonable merge speed of 50mph, but you have all those jackasses who use the slow lane to barrel past other traffic at 90mph so it doesn't quite work out right. Metering only works because it causes people to leave work earlier or later to avoid the meter created street level traffic. Carpool lanes are a decent idea if they didn't get rid of a perfectly good normal lane to make the HOV lane. In my area they make a 5 mile stretch of 5 lane highway into a 4 lane +1 HOV lane 5 mile stretch. Guess were the traffic gets bad.  The "it's California, move" assholes can fuck off and die. That tripe is getting old. You're not clever. |
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Posted: 8/10/2005 10:56:16 AM EDT
[#42]
Yeah, until you get behind the people that stop for the yield sign when entering the roundabout, and then stop at every feeder road once they are on it.
Witness earlier comment about people who don't understand the concept. Roundabouts have two great advantages. 1) You don't need to stop. You don't even need to look both ways. Approach roundabout, look left. If no traffic, hit gas. If a lot of traffic, stop. If one car, then a sufficient gap for you, aim for the tail-lights of the car, and hit gas. No problem. 2) You can have multiple roads intersect at one roundabout, not just four-way, and the interface system is just as simple. Less time spent waiting for your green light. They have two great disadvantages. 1) If the roundabout is on an intersection between a major, busy artery, and a small side-road or two, the lads on the side-roads could be waiting a very long time before getting on. Some roundabouts have traffic lights for rush hour use to prevent this. 2) I'm told that in New Jersey, traffic entering the roundabout has priority over traffic already in it. This makes absolutely no bloody sense at all. NTM |
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Posted: 8/10/2005 11:11:56 AM EDT
[#43]
When they installed some of these carpool lanes, they removed the shoulders on the sides of the freeway. This is far worse than the new lanes that were added to free up traffic, if someone breaks down or gets into an accident there no where for them to go. They just sit there in the middle of the road blocking one or two lanes of traffic forcing everyone to go around them further blocking the rest of the freeway.
Another FUBAR is the haphazard design of the on ramps on most freeways. When these busy on-ramps/cross traffic lanes go from two to one lanes then try to merge you into a freeway = bottleneck. Removing these cluster F's should be priority one. No on ramp should go from two or three lanes then into one that then quickly forces you merge into yet another lane just to get onto the freeway. That is not free flowing. Cal-trans is only recently starting to fix some of these early "hack" on ramps. They removed one giant cluster F on the 405 N to the 10 E by getting rid of that stupid single lane exit that suddenly opens to two lanes, then in about 1/4 mile abruptly closes back to one and then merges with a lane from the southbound 405. It doesn't clog with speeders trying to get that all so important extra two cars in front of you while everyone behind them has to stop to let them back in.  |
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Posted: 8/10/2005 11:19:28 AM EDT
[#44]
One more thing...once inside the roundabout, move to the INSIDE lane and shift to the outside lane just before your exit. That is what would get them going REALLY smoothly but I see very few people who get the concept. How to use a traffic circle |
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Posted: 8/10/2005 11:52:50 AM EDT
[#45]
You do ??? Is this another tax form I have to fill out at the end of the year...dangit?? ok, I have actually filled out a 4473...ok...a couple times..but its not the norm, purchases from individuals don't require it. And I love to bumpfire!! ESSAYONS |
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Posted: 8/10/2005 12:01:56 PM EDT
[#46]
Metering ramps improve safety by keeping traffic from entering the freeway in one large group. This can be dangerous when you drive a truck as I do, and there is no way to merge left away from entering traffic.
Especially in California, which restricts trucks to the right lane when there are fewer than 4 lanes. |
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Posted: 8/10/2005 12:06:41 PM EDT
[#47]
What do you mean by light rail? Chicago has the "El" and part of the "El" is subway(IIRC for the Blue Line and the Red Line in the Loop). Is it something like that, or is it like a commuter train that shares the track with freight trains and all that? The thing is, if you don't have a car, and/or commute, wouldn't that reduce traffic? My sister takes the commuter train downtown, and her, and all the other "business people" are tying up less of the roads. And IIRC the trains are pretty full coming downtown and coming back, but I think it depends. ETA-after a google for "light rail in Sacramento CA, it is just a tram powered by overhead cables, but if your city had something like a elevated train, or a train that runs along side the expressway, it would probably cut down on traffic. |
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