I just got my electric bill for last month.

THREEHUNDRED FUCKING DOLLARS!!

I just about shit myself.  

I had my heating and AC upgraded about three years ago because the 3 ton we had wasn't keeping up with the new room we had added on.  It ran constantly during the day, didn't ever get the house below 85 degrees.  The house would stay that hot until about 11:00PM.

The 4 ton (and 150,000 btu furnace) seemed to be doing better, but I'm still running the AC a lot more than I think it should run during the day.  Thus the large electric bills in the summer (it's 105 here right now).

I'm thinking I need to check and make sure that my house is insulated well enough.  I've always been suspect of the job that they did in the attic.  The blow in insulation isn't very thick up there.  YOu can see about two inches of the rafters (2X6's).  My thinking is, if they half assed the insulation in the attic, they probably did it in the walls too.  

Question is, how do I check the insulation in the walls?  And if I do need to add insulation, how the hell do I get more into the walls without tearing the hell out of them?  

You don't have enough in the attic. I prefer bat insulation to the blow in kind.

If your walls have the blow in kind it has probably settled. If you cut it open the insulation would probably be down to 60-75%

Quoted: I just got my electric bill for last month. THREEHUNDRED FUCKING DOLLARS!! I just about shit myself.   I had my heating and AC upgraded about three years ago because the 3 ton we had wasn't keeping up with the new room we had added on.  It ran constantly during the day, didn't ever get the house below 85 degrees.  The house would stay that hot until about 11:00PM. The 4 ton (and 150,000 btu furnace) seemed to be doing better, but I'm still running the AC a lot more than I think it should run during the day.  Thus the large electric bills in the summer (it's 105 here right now). I'm thinking I need to check and make sure that my house is insulated well enough.  I've always been suspect of the job that they did in the attic.  The blow in insulation isn't very thick up there.  YOu can see about two inches of the rafters (2X6's).  My thinking is, if they half assed the insulation in the attic, they probably did it in the walls too.   Question is, how do I check the insulation in the walls?  And if I do need to add insulation, how the hell do I get more into the walls without tearing the hell out of them?

You can get a HVAC company to test the house, they seal the doors and close the windows and the blow air in to the house and check the pressure. From this they can tell the amount of air leaking and then trace the point of the leaks.

While you're up there, check to see where you are going to put your attic fan, or two.

That 140 degree hotbox 18" above your head is a big reason the AC keeps coming on over and over.

My dad and stepmom turn down my AC when I leave and I always come home to it on and doors open, along with lots of lights on.  I'll probaly pay as much this month as I do the rest of the year combined.  Im thinking of getting power disconnected until they leave.

I gave up using the HVAC here in SoCal last year for that very reason.

After a couple of $300+ bills I decided that I'd just get used to the heat and the cold.

Only turned on the AC the other day to make sure it worked in the process of selling the place (in Escrow now, waiting for the buyer to call letting me know when they'll be doing the inspection).

It's an old house (1956) with insulation in the attic and roof turbines, but nothing in the walls (plaster/stucco).

Quoted: My dad and stepmom turn down my AC when I leave and I always come home to it on and doors open, along with lots of lights on.  I'll probaly pay as much this month as I do the rest of the year combined.  Im thinking of getting power disconnected until they leave.

Good idea, get a thermostat with timers if you don’t have one.

If you can see 2" of rafters 2x6 ? you ain't got enough. I had blown in rock wool in the house I'm in so I got bats of unfaced fiberglass and ran them perpendicular to the joists, being sure not to block the soffit vents. I even insulated out attached unheated garage, on the theory the radiant heat from the attic wouldn't migrate down, heating the closed garage and getting into the house- probably not the most efficient use, but I had some left over.

Walls are tougher. There are some devices that measure radiant heat- firms use them to map heat loss in homes. Don't know where you can get one, probably a little pricy.

Just got my electric bill today for 2 Carrier units 12 seer, and a W/H. 55.00! Now that the children are no longer at home...............

Quoted: Quoted: My dad and stepmom turn down my AC when I leave and I always come home to it on and doors open, along with lots of lights on.  I'll probaly pay as much this month as I do the rest of the year combined.  Im thinking of getting power disconnected until they leave. Good idea, get a thermostat with timers if you don’t have one.

Im only home 12 hours a day, I can live without power, just charge phone in car, and dont eat at home or just eat dry food.

Quoted: While you're up there, check to see where you are going to put your attic fan, or two. That 140 degree hotbox 18" above your head is a big reason the AC keeps coming on over and over.

Oh hell, that's another thing.  I had my roof redone last year (hail storm).  I asked the roofer to put in some electric attic fans.  He did.  But when I went up and looked around the other day, I noticed that the wires for the fans were just hanging there.  I called him up and asked him what the hell?  He said he's not a licensed electrition so he couldn't hook them up.  That's fine.....but LET ME KNOW THAT THEY'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING UP THERE RIGHT NOW SO I CAN GET THEM HOOKED UP ASSHOLE!!

I prefer bat insulation to the blow in kind.

What's the difference between bat and blow in?

just curious......what is the KwH used for that month?

bat insulation is roll insulation, blow in is where there take shreaded up insulation, usually shreaded up paper that's treated against vermon and inscets and like the name implies, they blow it in wall cavaties, after they drill holes in your sheathing, and blow it in between the joist....I believe you can rent those hoppers and hoses, and buy bags of them and DIY, or have a contractor do it.

Quoted: I WOULD LOVE  A $300 electric bill....but I have two stories, live Houston AND have a pool.

Mine is under $40 every month

my bill is $250 this month and my highest bill to date

Quoted: Quoted: I WOULD LOVE  A $300 electric bill....but I have two stories, live Houston AND have a pool. Mine is under $40 every month

fuckyou

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I WOULD LOVE  A $300 electric bill....but I have two stories, live Houston AND have a pool. Mine is under $40 every month fuckyou

I normally go without much light, I hate the light

Also no heat in winter and little or no AC in summer.

It was 100F here nearly everyday last month and my electric bill for 2600 sq ft. was $180. I have a gas water heater, electric oven and gas stove (i never cook). My house has about 2 ft thick of blown insulation in the attic (R50 value). It's a single story house w/ a single 5 ton AC unit. I keep my house at 71F degrees at night and 73F in the day.

Call a insulation company and have them blow at least R50 in your attic. They run run a hose into the attic from a truck and blow it everywhere. It will take less than an hour and will cost only about $300. It will go a long way towards fixing your problem and likely pay for itself in just a few months. Plus your house will have a much more even temp from room to room and you'll be able to cool it down to a lower temp.

damn guys..........I went all electric 10 years ago, and I pay a average of about $110 per month.......with average KwH of 2200 KwH in the summer and 4,000 in the winter. for 1500 sq ft.

Our bill is bi-monthly, and generally in the $180 range, but that includes water, trash, and electricity. So realistically the electricity is probably in the $80 a month range.

I expect the bill that's coming to be in the $250 range. Still not too terrible considering the house has NO insulation, leaks like a son of a bitch, and the A/C runs non stop any time we turn it on (usually 3-5 hours a day).

Quoted: It was 100F here nearly everyday last month and my electric bill for 2600 sq ft. was $180. I have a gas water heater, electric oven and gas stove (i never cook). My house has about 2 ft thick of blown insulation in the attic (R50 value). It's a single story house w/ a single 5 ton AC unit. I keep my house at 71F degrees at night and 73F in the day. Call a insulation company and have them blow at least R50 in your attic. They run run a hose into the attic from a truck and blow it everywhere. It will take less than an hour and will cost only about $300. It will go a long way towards fixing your problem and likely pay for itself in just a few months. Plus your house will have a much more even temp from room to room and you'll be able to cool it down to a lower temp.

R-50 is overkill, and it might damage ceilings. R-38 was the standard two years ago, now the minimum required is up around R-44. If the ceiling was not designed to hold that much weight from above, the sheetrock will start to move closer to the Earth's core.

Blowing in insulation takes a little more work than "less than an hour", and it will cost more than a couple hundred bucks. Adding more insulation over existing is actually harder than new construction, and it will take even longer and cost more to do it properly.

You need a total thickness of about fifteen inches.

My last months bill was 285.00 for 2700sqft., one level house. I have the batt insulation, it's thick enough to just past the 2X6 insulation, but I have no idea whats in the walls, if anything.


ETA: We keep our thermostat at 77.

I used to pay very little until I got married. Wife has to keep the damn thing down to 75 degrees. I used to never use the AC at all and just opened windows and turned on fans.

Meh, $260 last month. I worship the Gods of air conditioning. One of man's top inventions in my book.

It ran constantly during the day, didn't ever get the house below 85 degrees...the AC a lot more than I think it should run during the day

HVAC guys love to intentionally sale undersized units so they'll be back soon to charge you more money.

Definitely buy more bags of insulation and dump them in the ceiling.  That helps.  After you do that, you can buy the rolls of insulation and lay them down perpendicular to the joists.

Also, hows the ventilation in the attic?  My house dropped a good 5 degrees after I added two exhaust fans in the attic.

how the hell do I get more into the walls without tearing the hell out of them?

I've drilled 1" holes in the 2x4's at the top of the walls then stuffed insulation into a large funnel to fill the walls.  It's tedious, but it works.  If I have to do it again, I'll try to rig-up something with a leaf blower or a shop-vac to make the job easier.z

Last time I had to blow in insulation into a wall that had settled I did it in two ways, I drilled a hole in between each stud at the bottom (under the trim) and put air hoses in with nozzles (to keep them from getting clogged before I turned on the air)    I then pumped air in to "fluff" out the insulation. remove the hoses one at a time and stuff a little bit of newspaper to cork the hole, cover with drywall mud, trim will cover it (I primed over top the mud to give it a bit of water/moisture proofing)    then I drilled a hole in the top of the wall between each stud, and pumped at a slow rate insulation in (not really pumped, carried by air, but I checked to make sure it was getting full, a better way if you can is to go into the attic and drill down to fillit, that way it is easier to top up the insulation, not an option on this job I did).    That way the isulation is fluffed out (important to get proper insulating capacity) and topped up. We also pumped it into the ceiling with holes close to the edge of the ceiling, the holes on the top of the wall and the ceiling were covered the same as the bottm ones, but with crown moulding that was designed to sit at a 45 degree angle


This was all done on a reno job.


That is the easy way


the other way I have done it (old house, plaster and lathe walls) was to rip the walls down, rip the lathe down (I doubt you have lathe walls, but you never know) clean that all up, put in good old fashioned insulation (had to shim the studs out to take a thicker insulation, walls were not even up to spec for 2"x4") then redrywalled everything, mud, sand, prime, paint....    Messier job, but I think it was a better job



my experineces, if you can take anything from them feel free, oh and definately put in some roof vents and more insulation in the attic if you can without impacting on the soffits



have fun

"R-50 is overkill, and it might damage ceilings. R-38 was the standard two years ago, now the minimum required is up around R-44. If the ceiling was not designed to hold that much weight from above, the sheetrock will start to move closer to the Earth's core.

Blowing in insulation takes a little more work than "less than an hour", and it will cost more than a couple hundred bucks. Adding more insulation over existing is actually harder than new construction, and it will take even longer and cost more to do it properly.

You need a total thickness of about fifteen inches."  Quote from Ar-10





First Off, my father owned an insulation company for about 15 years, and your recommendations of thickness are B.S.


It is illegal to sell insulaton by inches, it must be sold by "R" Value.   10 inches of Fiberglass is not equal to 10 inches of rock wool .  It's also a different R factor for the same thickness of Cellulose........

It takes NO more effort to blow in insulaton over an existing area than it does a new area. ZERO.

Dad no longer owns an insulatoin company, but we DO BUILD HOMES for a living now.  There is A national Energy code that states what you need to have in your attic for your particular area of the country.   In my area, anything over an R-38 is OVERKILL.....It just depends where you are at.

Call a local Insulatoin contractor that you TRUST and ask what is required in your area.  Be sure to get one that you trust as It is easy to rip a person off when blowing insulation.   When blowing insulation it is possible to manipulate the machine to "PUFF" the material and make it stand up. Thus you can get many inches of height out of less material. The "R" factor will not be there adn teh material will rapidly settle. this is why it is ILLEGAL To sell inches, the contractor must guarentee an "R" value.

When someone comes to blow in the mateial look at the bags that the product comes in. It will state a "Minimum Settled Density" and how many bags must go into how many square feet in order to figure proper"R" factor.  Figure how many square feet you have and Count the bags that are installed, this is the only sure way not to get ripped off.

Batt insulaton is good, But it is ABSOLUTLEY not as good as "Blown in" insulaton when applied properly." Blown in" insulation seals up all the cracks left around the sides and ends of batt insulation.

If you go with Batts and have a tight area where the material must be squeezed in or compressed, you will loose "R"factor.  

"R" factor is a resistance to heat/cold, temperature change.  

All insulaton does is trap Air, it heat/cools nothing.  

Another thing,  If you have walls that are not insulated, or if the stuff was blown in and settled.......

There is a way to fix it.


Cellulose insulatoin can be pumped into the wall cavities....... most large contractors have the equipment to do it.

With my father's machine, all you did was drill a 1 inch hole into the wall cavity, from inside/or outside of the hoem depending on which way way wanted(cant go through brick). The machine pumped the walls with cellulose using 5lbs of pressure as to not cause damage or bowing of the sheet rock. Using This method, only cellulose should be used and Fiblerglass or mineral wool (rock wool) will hang on nails and such and cuse empty bubbles in teh cavity.

Fiberglass or rock wool can be blown into wall cavaties with a glue mixture before sheet rock is installed or behind netting.

If you have any questions, feel free to IM me. I grew up installing that shit



Edited to add: pumping insulation into walls only works if they are hollow, very old homes around here have solid wood walls and you cant do a damn thing with them.


Old windows will loose as much heat/cool as uninsulated walls/ceiling

AAAAHHHHH!    You should just move to Hawaii.... 65 degrees at night, 85 degrees during the day. year around.  Always cool in the shade.  Always warm in the sun.  No furnace, no A/C......then why the @#$#@#&*%#%$%!!!! is my light bill here in Hawaii higher here than my gas (heating) and electric bills combined were in Alaska!  Hawaii electricity is really expensive.....solar electric anyone?

Quoted: AAAAHHHHH!    You should just move to Hawaii.... 65 degrees at night, 85 degrees during the day. year around.  Always cool in the shade.  Always warm in the sun.  No furnace, no A/C......then why the @#$#@#&*%#%$%!!!! is my light bill here in Hawaii higher here than my gas (heating) and electric bills combined were in Alaska!  Hawaii electricity is really expensive.....solar electric anyone?

but you pay more for everything else. except SPAM

$104 here.

New 12 seer Armstrong condensing unit and new storm doors have helped a bunch, my bill is $80 less than it was last year at this time.

Quoted: First Off, my father owned an insulation company for about 15 years, and your recommendations of thickness are B.S. Fifteen inches of cellulose is about an R-38. It is illegal to sell insulaton by inches, it must be sold by "R" Value.   10 inches of Fiberglass is not equal to 10 inches of rock wool .  It's also a different R factor for the same thickness of Cellulose........We are discussing insulation with a guy who thinks six inches may be about right. Generally speaking, about fifteen inches of cellulose or fibreglass would be closer to what he, or anyone reading this, would need. It takes NO more effort to blow in insulaton over an existing area than it does a new area. ZERO. When I add insulation to an existing structure, which I do half a dozen times a year, I have to look at several things other than how many Rs I am adding. I haver to find all the light fixtures and junction boxes hiding undert the existing insulation, make sure they are protected from the insulation. That takes a bit longer than if it was new construction. Just moving about  in the attic takes a bit longer than if there was no insulation there. Thus, the job takes more time.     Dad no longer owns an insulatoin company, but we DO BUILD HOMES for a living now.  There is A national Energy code that states what you need to have in your attic for your particular area of the country.   In my area, anything over an R-38 is OVERKILL.....It just depends where you are at.   the spread in recomended values from the southern states to the far north is what, around fifteen Rs? that would make my half-assed fifteen inches right about in the middle, yes?

Wlscott lives in Oklahoma. What is the recomended R value for a home there?

Quoted: Quoted: First Off, my father owned an insulation company for about 15 years, and your recommendations of thickness are B.S. Fifteen inches of cellulose is about an R-38. It is illegal to sell insulaton by inches, it must be sold by "R" Value.   10 inches of Fiberglass is not equal to 10 inches of rock wool .  It's also a different R factor for the same thickness of Cellulose........We are discussing insulation with a guy who thinks six inches may be about right. Generally speaking, about fifteen inches of cellulose or fibreglass would be closer to what he, or anyone reading this, would need. It takes NO more effort to blow in insulaton over an existing area than it does a new area. ZERO. When I add insulation to an existing structure, which I do half a dozen times a year, I have to look at several things other than how many Rs I am adding. I haver to find all the light fixtures and junction boxes hiding undert the existing insulation, make sure they are protected from the insulation. That takes a bit longer than if it was new construction. Just moving about  in the attic takes a bit longer than if there was no insulation there. Thus, the job takes more time.     Dad no longer owns an insulatoin company, but we DO BUILD HOMES for a living now.  There is A national Energy code that states what you need to have in your attic for your particular area of the country.   In my area, anything over an R-38 is OVERKILL.....It just depends where you are at.   the spread in recomended values from the southern states to the far north is what, around fifteen Rs? that would make my half-assed fifteen inches right about in the middle, yes? Wlscott lives in Oklahoma. What is the recomended R value for a home there?

It all depends on what the man already has in the atttic.

I dont know what it is is Oklahoma. I build in Central Texas.  I would guess around an R-38, but he would need to consult a professional from his area

I've never not blown over the top of a junction box or a light fixture with one exception .

The only light fixtures that I have ever  concerned myself with were the old style "Can" lights that were not supposed to be insulated over.  They have thermometers in them that cut them off when too hot, when the thermometer fails, they catch on fire. They shouldn't be blown over in the first place. Same effort to not blow over them again.

I did go into a house once that had bare wires run between porcelean insulators. This is an OLD way of doing things and they were still using it that way. I refused the job and left

What "R" value?

The more you spend on insulation, the less you'll spend on heating or cooling.

Would you rather spend a little more on insulation ONCE, or a little more every day/night, to heat and cool the area?

My understanding with HVAC systems, is they generally cost very little to run. The big cost is the amount of energy needed to start them from a stop.

Well, the first thing I'm going to do is get the attic fan working.  Then I'm going to get some more insulation in the attic, probably blown in since that's what's there.

I just went up there and looked at it again, and in some places it covers the rafters and in others it doesn't.  Probably half and half.  But nowhere does it have anywhere near 15 inches.  

My bill was $520 for 3900 sq ft.

Quoted: Your not the only one with these high bills . Same thing up here , my bill was $73 dollars higher then last month.  Its the price you pay for keepin cool the old lady from bitching about the heat.

Fixed it for ya!

$300? Your electricity-fu is weak young grasshopper. My electric bill last month for a 5,500+sq ft., single floor home, was over $600. We have 2 HVAC units for the main house and another one for the 700sq.ft. guest house, but that unit is off most of the time. We have a pool, and 2 refridgerators. The house is about 5yrs old, but since it faces south, it gets sun for 12hrs a day on one side, that also has the big double pane picture windows, as that is where the view of the valley is.

I have a couple of neighbors who swear by the radiant barrier for the attics. I may give that a whirl at a cost of about $600.00.

Quoted: $300? Your electricity-fu is weak young grasshopper. My electric bill last month for a 5,500+sq ft., single floor home, was over $600. We have 2 HVAC units for the main house and another one for the 700sq.ft. guest house, but that unit is off most of the time. We have a pool, and 2 refridgerators. The house is about 5yrs old, but since it faces south, it gets sun for 12hrs a day on one side, that also has the big double pane picture windows, as that is where the view of the valley is.

You are right about that.  I tend to start fires when I'm working with electricity....Or shock the hell out of myself

But that doesn't have anything to do with my bill.  My gripe is that it shouldn't be that high for the reasons that you mention.  It's a 2700 sq ft house, four bedroom with none of the (cool) stuff that you have.  Comparable houses in my area are running about $150.00 and less for their bill.

$210 at 74 degrees.  100^ May, June, and July heat. Little rain

2100 kwh per July use.  Avg down in the $130 /mo range.  It's hot!

Worst yet in a 1750 sf house.  I can live with warmer AC temps, 76 degrees next month to reduce the cost.

Close to $300 a month is typical for me, for summer months, for a 1600 ft. house in the MD suburbs.  I used to pay this much for a smaller house which was cooled with window units.  Cold winter months can result in a gas bill close to $300 too.

Power is pretty expensive around here (so is water/sewer).  I also keep the house at 74 daytime and 72 nightime.

GunLvr

$180 this months
we run at 78 degrees
Alot of computer equipment though

I'd call my electric utility and see what energy saving services they offer or could recommend.  My utility did an audit and told me what should be corrected and what my payback would be.  I thought I needed more insulation in the attic.  Seems the windows (thermopane) were the highest loss.  They have IR devices that can 'see' the temperature and locate the problem.  I'd much rather have this info in my hand before I start tearing into walls, etc.

For example, they thought they needed more a/c in the office area where I work.  Long story short, and a local contractor install the 3M film on the windows.  No more complaints from the staff.

Man mine was $20.45 this month damn its useally about $9
1 bedroom  below ground level apt
good thing i do not pay for  heat as this is a cold mofo in the winter

$280 for 2 HVAC units; that is probably about 25% higher because of the hot weather we are having.

You might try a couple of air turbines for attic ventilation. I just added one. About 25 bucks each if you install them. 105 degrees here also today. Hell the wind about always blows here so they work good.

  Before you go blowing in insulation. You may want to have your duct work re-done and sealed. About 90 percent of homes in the US are undersized on duct work. Most all of  it,  isn't sealed either. Have this taken care of before attic insulation. Also a good thing to have is motorized attic exhaust vents.

 Another thing. What SEER rating is your new A/C. I hope it's at least 13.5 SEER. If not you screwed yourself. They even go up to 18 SEER, being the highest. If you want A/C advice shoot me a IM-Mail!

Quoted: While you're up there, check to see where you are going to put your attic fan, or two. That 140 degree hotbox 18" above your head is a big reason the AC keeps coming on over and over.

+1
I'm about to throw 10" R30 batts in our attics, and if that doesn't get the problem under control, the fans are my next move.