Info re: scientology
link

Here's some of what the link says:

In a Nutshell

The Church of Scientology is a vicious and dangerous cult that masquerades as a religion. Its purpose is to make money. It practices a variety of mind-control techniques on people lured into its midst to gain control over their money and their lives. Its aim is to take from them every penny that they have and can ever borrow and to also enslave them to further its wicked ends.
It was started in the 1950s by a science fiction writer named L. Ron Hubbard in fulfilment to his declared aim to start a religion to make money. It is an offshoot to a method of psychotherapy he concocted from various sources which he named "Dianetics". Dianetics is a form of regression therapy. It was then further expanded to appear more like a religion in order to enjoy tax benefits. He called it "Scientology".

Scientology is a confused concoction of crackpot, dangerously applied psychotherapy, oversimplified, idiotic and inapplicable rules and ideas and science-fiction drivel that is presented to its members (at the "advanced" levels) as profound spiritual truth.


ETA: Don't just vote, please comment and discuss.  I'm hoping this thread takes off and rocks.

Yes it is.

Quoted: Yes it is.

shhhh  they will kill you.

I put "I don't know, but I don't like it" because I don't know much about it. Most of the answers say yes, which I don't undersatand because I've never heard of Scientology including UFOs.

I don't know... I've seen the "Xenu" stuff before, but I figured that was just a joke at their (or our ) expense.

NBot UFO....but a cult none the less.

Sgatr15

Hubbard talks about Mars: audio  DO NOT MISS THIS!!!



Lots and lots of videos here:  link

Quoted: I put "I don't know, but I don't like it" because I don't know much about it. Most of the answers say yes, which I don't undersatand because I've never heard of Scientology including UFOs.

They won't tell you about the UFOs until you have coughed up tens of thousands of dollars.

A weird cult populated by thousands of weird numbskulls wearing tinfoil hats.  Totally crazy bunch.  

Xenu is coming, I can feel it.

Cult.  All the way.  I don't give a crap if John Travolta and Kirstie Alley believe in that BS, it's still a freakish cult looking for a handout.

wonder if we have any scientologists here.

Not nice to call someone's religion a cult, might even be a COC violation...

I put no because  believing in psychic toxins isn't any more ludicrous than some of the other shit people believe as part of their religion.

Watch 'Battlefield Earth' and THEN try to argue that Scientology's founder wasn't a nutcase.

The IRS now recognizes scientology as a religion.

Quoted: wonder if we have any scientologists here. Not nice to call someone's religion a cult, might even be a COC violation... I put no because  believing in psychic toxins isn't any more ludicrous than some of the other shit people believe as part of their religion.

Well, none of the answers available to my question exclude the possibility of other religions being a cult.  Scientology being a cult and other religions being a cult are not mutually exclusive options so you don't have to say "no" just because of what you think about other religions.

Quoted: Watch 'Battlefield Earth' and THEN try to argue that Scientology's founder wasn't a nutcase.

trust me, the movie was better than the book ;p

They also have a lot of good lawyers to go after detractors.

     


GM

Quoted: They also have a lot of good lawyers to go after detractors.       GM

Look, I just want to hear what y'all think.

Here's something else I found:
XENU

"Much of the controversy between supporters and critics of the Church of Scientology has focused on the story of Xenu. The Church avoids making mention of Xenu in public statements and has gone to considerable effort to maintain the story's confidentiality, including legal action on the grounds of both copyright and trade secrecy. However, much material on Xenu has leaked to the public. "

Is Scientology a weird UFO cult?

Of course it is.

I used to have neighbors who were Scientologists.  They were my favorite neighbors in the entire community.  They were totally normal.  They did not proselytize in any manner.  They didn't try to impose their ideas on others or tsk-tsk about other people.  

They drank occasionally and had great senses of humor.  Loved to laugh and have fun.  Politically they were in the Libertarian/Conservative mold.  Believed in the constitution and all of the Bill of Rights - including the 2nd.

A lot of stuff I've read about Scientology makes me think the religion is a joke and its followers are a bunch of loonies - but my neighbors were great people.  I don't know if they were exceptions to the rule or not.  

Sounds like more bullshit to me.

I heard that by the time you reach the top stage of "nirvana" or whatever in scientology, it will have cost you $300k plus- sign me up!

Ask any Scientologist follower what is a thetan.

That will give you the answer you seek.

Yes, they believe in the mother ship, but only at significantly higher levels.

Quoted: Ask any Scientologist follower what is a thetan. That will give you the answer you seek. Yes, they believe in the mother ship, but only at significantly higher levels.

Like an "OT"?

The story is that Robert Heilein and L. Ron Hubbard were talking and Heinlein noted that you could get rich if you could found a church and not have to pay taxes. So Hubbard went off and did it.

I've talked to a number of people who knew Heinlein and all swore it was true.

Being from one of Scientology's central bases of operations (Clearwater, FL), I have dealt with some of the "church's" members.  They are a business, plain and simple. They are about making money, and have several businesses that are used to support the church using members as the managers.  They run a hotel called the Ft. Harrison in downtown Clearwater, where other members come to have meetings, therapy, readings, monitoring etc.  John Travolta has been there numerous times.  The church staff’s their businesses with people who have devoted themselves (more like have been brainwashed) to the church.  They are provided with a place to live, uniforms and meals in return.  The church runs private bus and van transportation services for all the workers under the name of “FLAG”.  They use to look like they were in the Navy, and they were know as the Sea Service for a long time.  This was from a time when L. Ron Hubbard lived on a private sea going yacht.  Their uniforms were a summer whites like naval officers for supervisors or managers, and a two tone blue (light over dark) for lower ranking employees / members.  A few years ago they switched to a more corporate uniform look and now look like flight attendants.  For people who run their more off site businesses, they were standard business attire.  The church or its members own much of downtown Clearwater.

As for their actual religious teachings and the UFO thing; in a nutshell they believe that the inhabitants of the Earth are here as punishment for transgressions in another part of the universe.  Until we as humans can correct our transgressions and reach a point of “clarity” we keep getting sent back to the Earth after we die, to try again. Once you reach the point of clarity and you are released from this earthly purgatory, your soul is free to roam the universe and I have heard you get your own utopian planet to spend eternity on.  (from what I have been told) It’s true that the religion was born out of the Dianetics therapy books, and they play a major role in the churches teachings.  Mr. Travolta credits them and the church with saving his life from a downward spiral he experienced after his Welcome Back Kotter and Saturday Night Fever days.  

The Church of Scientology is a very aggressive group that will attack critics they see as a threat.  They run counter surveillance around their buildings and facilities.  Their security officers patrol their facilities and photograph those they do not recognize.  They do not like the media.  At one time they were cited by the City of Clearwater for dressing their security in uniforms so close to the Police departments, that both church and non church members had trouble telling them apart.  This was so they could also control people who tried to leave the churches buildings without permission and seek help from the police.  (Clearwater PD is walking distance from the Ft. Harrison Hotel).  The church has been known to harass and break into former member’s homes, businesses and offices who have become outspoken.  Several years ago they became the center of a murder/manslaughter investigation when they refused to get medical help for Lisa McPherson in 1995. (link to one story  here, Google the case by names if you want more details).   My personal opinion is they are a cult.

Quoted: Cult.  All the way.  I don't give a crap if John Travolta and Kirstie Alley believe in that BS, it's still a freakish cult looking for a handout.

Kirstie just showed up because they had a free buffet after Sunday services.

Quoted: Being from one of Scientology's central bases of operations (Clearwater, FL), I have dealt with some of the "church's" members.  They are a business, plain and simple. They are about making money, and have several businesses that are used to support the church using members as the managers.  They run a hotel called the Ft. Harrison in downtown Clearwater, where other members come to have meetings, therapy, readings, monitoring etc.  John Travolta has been there numerous times.  The church staff’s their businesses with people who have devoted themselves (more like have been brainwashed) to the church.  They are provided with a place to live, uniforms and meals in return.  The church runs private bus and van transportation services for all the workers under the name of “FLAG”.  They use to look like they were in the Navy, and they were know as the Sea Service for a long time.  This was from a time when L. Ron Hubbard lived on a private sea going yacht.  Their uniforms were a summer whites like naval officers for supervisors or managers, and a two tone blue (light over dark) for lower ranking employees / members.  A few years ago they switched to a more corporate uniform look and now look like flight attendants.  For people who run their more off site businesses, they were standard business attire.  The church or its members own much of downtown Clearwater. As for their actual religious teachings and the UFO thing; in a nutshell they believe that the inhabitants of the Earth are here as punishment for transgressions in another part of the universe.  Until we as humans can correct our transgressions and reach a point of “clarity” we keep getting sent back to the Earth after we die, to try again. Once you reach the point of clarity and you are released from this earthly purgatory, your soul is free to roam the universe and I have heard you get your own utopian planet to spend eternity on.  (from what I have been told) It’s true that the religion was born out of the Dianetics therapy books, and they play a major role in the churches teachings.  Mr. Travolta credits them and the church with saving his life from a downward spiral he experienced after his Welcome Back Kotter and Saturday Night Fever days.   The Church of Scientology is a very aggressive group that will attack critics they see as a threat.  They run counter surveillance around their buildings and facilities.  Their security officers patrol their facilities and photograph those they do not recognize.  They do not like the media.  At one time they were cited by the City of Clearwater for dressing their security in uniforms so close to the Police departments, that both church and non church members had trouble telling them apart.  This was so they could also control people who tried to leave the churches buildings without permission and seek help from the police.  (Clearwater PD is walking distance from the Ft. Harrison Hotel).  The church has been known to harass and break into former member’s homes, businesses and offices who have become outspoken.  Several years ago they became the center of a murder/manslaughter investigation when they refused to get medical help for Lisa McPherson in 1995. (link to one story  here, Google the case by names if you want more details).   My personal opinion is they are a cult.

These are all true statements. Furthermore, they sued Cult Awareness Network in civil court and won the assets, thus shutting down the original anti-cult organization and removing anything they felt was defamatory towards the organization.

Sadly, this conversation on AR15.com would likely be targeted by the 'church' if they were to find out about it.

Don't be surprised if this topic ends up missing at some point.

Quoted: Quoted: Being from one of Scientology's central bases of operations (Clearwater, FL), I have dealt with some of the "church's" members.  They are a business, plain and simple. They are about making money, and have several businesses that are used to support the church using members as the managers.  They run a hotel called the Ft. Harrison in downtown Clearwater, where other members come to have meetings, therapy, readings, monitoring etc.  John Travolta has been there numerous times.  The church staff’s their businesses with people who have devoted themselves (more like have been brainwashed) to the church.  They are provided with a place to live, uniforms and meals in return.  The church runs private bus and van transportation services for all the workers under the name of “FLAG”.  They use to look like they were in the Navy, and they were know as the Sea Service for a long time.  This was from a time when L. Ron Hubbard lived on a private sea going yacht.  Their uniforms were a summer whites like naval officers for supervisors or managers, and a two tone blue (light over dark) for lower ranking employees / members.  A few years ago they switched to a more corporate uniform look and now look like flight attendants.  For people who run their more off site businesses, they were standard business attire.  The church or its members own much of downtown Clearwater. As for their actual religious teachings and the UFO thing; in a nutshell they believe that the inhabitants of the Earth are here as punishment for transgressions in another part of the universe.  Until we as humans can correct our transgressions and reach a point of “clarity” we keep getting sent back to the Earth after we die, to try again. Once you reach the point of clarity and you are released from this earthly purgatory, your soul is free to roam the universe and I have heard you get your own utopian planet to spend eternity on.  (from what I have been told) It’s true that the religion was born out of the Dianetics therapy books, and they play a major role in the churches teachings.  Mr. Travolta credits them and the church with saving his life from a downward spiral he experienced after his Welcome Back Kotter and Saturday Night Fever days.   The Church of Scientology is a very aggressive group that will attack critics they see as a threat.  They run counter surveillance around their buildings and facilities.  Their security officers patrol their facilities and photograph those they do not recognize.  They do not like the media.  At one time they were cited by the City of Clearwater for dressing their security in uniforms so close to the Police departments, that both church and non church members had trouble telling them apart.  This was so they could also control people who tried to leave the churches buildings without permission and seek help from the police.  (Clearwater PD is walking distance from the Ft. Harrison Hotel).  The church has been known to harass and break into former member’s homes, businesses and offices who have become outspoken.  Several years ago they became the center of a murder/manslaughter investigation when they refused to get medical help for Lisa McPherson in 1995. (link to one story  here, Google the case by names if you want more details).   My personal opinion is they are a cult. These are all true statements. Furthermore, they sued Cult Awareness Network in civil court and won the assets, thus shutting down the original anti-cult organization and removing anything they felt was defamatory towards the organization. Sadly, this conversation on AR15.com would likely be targeted by the 'church' if they were to find out about it. Don't be surprised if this topic ends up missing at some point.

Are you serious?

"Excuse me sir, would you like to take an intelligence test?"
"Its free!"

Quoted: Are you serious?

Very. They are not a group to be played with. You don't want to be on thier shit list.

Quoted: Quoted: Are you serious? Very. They are not a group to be played with. You don't want to be on thier shit list.

Would some of the comments/criticisms posted here get someone on their shit list?
Or do you have to be someone influential/outspoken?

Quoted: The story is that Robert Heilein and L. Ron Hubbard were talking and Heinlein noted that you could get rich if you could found a church and not have to pay taxes. So Hubbard went off and did it. I've talked to a number of people who knew Heinlein and all swore it was true.

Supposedly they had a bet who could make a better religion.  Heinlen's "Stranger in a Strange Land" was his much less successful attempt.

I think it would have been a better religion though :)

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Are you serious? Very. They are not a group to be played with. You don't want to be on thier shit list. Would some of the comments/criticisms posted here get someone on their shit list?

In short, yes.

I run a small community website for my local community. We had a discussion about 2 years ago about Scientology that turned rather derogatory.

I was contacted about 6 months ago because this thread on my site turned up in some Google search that they pay church employees to sit and do. It was forwarded to the church's counsel and I got a nastygram.

I sent them a response that per my terms of service, I am not responsible for the statements made by members, and they don't represent the opinion of the site owner. I got another response back stating that it was defamatory and that if I didn't want to face the same civil actions they filed against CAN, I should remove the topic.

I did just because I didn't want to deal with the hassle. I've got more to deal with in my day than a bunch of pissed off cult freaks.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Are you serious? Very. They are not a group to be played with. You don't want to be on thier shit list. Would some of the comments/criticisms posted here get someone on their shit list? In short, yes. I run a small community website for my local community. We had a discussion about 2 years ago about Scientology that turned rather derogatory. I was contacted about 6 months ago because this thread on my site turned up in some Google search that they pay church employees to sit and do. It was forwarded to the church's counsel and I got a nastygram. I sent them a response that per my terms of service, I am not responsible for the statements made by members, and they don't represent the opinion of the site owner. I got another response back stating that it was defamatory and that if I didn't want to face the same civil actions they filed against CAN, I should remove the topic. I did just because I didn't want to deal with the hassle. I've got more to deal with in my day than a bunch of pissed off cult freaks.

Wow.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Are you serious? Very. They are not a group to be played with. You don't want to be on thier shit list. Would some of the comments/criticisms posted here get someone on their shit list? Or do you have to be someone influential/outspoken?

Us discussing it is probably not a big deal to them.  More than likely, if there was a church member here, they would deny what we have said as inacurate and misinformed.  Try to pursuade us to look at it differently.  It's when people try to make them look really bad in the media or protest them, that it starts to stir the hornets nest.  If you try to take money, converts, or insider information away they get upset.  They are a very powerful group. Like someone pointed out, they have lots of attorneys, very good attorney's.    

ETA: if the above mentioned stuff by Ben Dover started to make them uncomfortable, then I could see that happening.  

It is a profoundly evil organization. As for CoC violations, Hubbard himself repeatedly insisted that $cientology was not a religion - until the FDA busted their asses over the scientific health claims made for the E-meter. Then it became a religion. They still make the same claims, but the E-meter (like the rest of the scam) carries a disclaimer to the effect that it is a religious artifact.

the lawyers will be in touch with you soon

Quoted:They are a very powerful group. Like someone pointed out, they have lots of attorneys, very good attorney's.

We are a powerful group, with lots of guns, very good guns.

Especially for capping dangerous space-alien cult members.


ETA - Where's the BATF when you need them?

Quoted: Quoted:They are a very powerful group. Like someone pointed out, they have lots of attorneys, very good attorney's.     We are a powerful group, with lots of guns, very good guns. Especially for capping dangerous space-alien cult members. ETA - Where's the BATF when you need them?

Rumor has it they have lots of guns too.

Quoted: Hubbard talks about Mars: audio  DO NOT MISS THIS!!! Lots and lots of videos here:  link

Thanks, you made my day better.

scientologists prey on the weak minded.
They use intimidation to get their way.
Intimidate them back.

Quoted: We are a powerful group, with lots of guns, very good guns. Especially for capping dangerous space-alien cult members.

Best round for space-alien cult members?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted:They are a very powerful group. Like someone pointed out, they have lots of attorneys, very good attorney's.     We are a powerful group, with lots of guns, very good guns. Especially for capping dangerous space-alien cult members. ETA - Where's the BATF when you need them? Rumor has it they have lots of guns too.

Laser guns or the real thing?


Just wondering, actually, does anybody walk around in alien costumes protesting these people?

And more importantly, are they smart enough for be carrying and protest in groups when they do it?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Are you serious? Very. They are not a group to be played with. You don't want to be on thier shit list. Would some of the comments/criticisms posted here get someone on their shit list? In short, yes. I run a small community website for my local community. We had a discussion about 2 years ago about Scientology that turned rather derogatory. I was contacted about 6 months ago because this thread on my site turned up in some Google search that they pay church employees to sit and do. It was forwarded to the church's counsel and I got a nastygram. I sent them a response that per my terms of service, I am not responsible for the statements made by members, and they don't represent the opinion of the site owner. I got another response back stating that it was defamatory and that if I didn't want to face the same civil actions they filed against CAN, I should remove the topic. I did just because I didn't want to deal with the hassle. I've got more to deal with in my day than a bunch of pissed off cult freaks. Wow.

Yeah see it makes us Catholics look like... well Saints.

Just to make it clear, I respect people that claim their "religion" as "Jedi" from Star Wars more than I do Scientologists.






At least Star Wars is good science fiction.

The Hubologists from Fallout 2 are a spoof of the scientologists.

Quoted: Quoted: wonder if we have any scientologists here. Not nice to call someone's religion a cult, might even be a COC violation... I put no because  believing in psychic toxins isn't any more ludicrous than some of the other shit people believe as part of their religion. Well, none of the answers available to my question exclude the possibility of other religions being a cult.  Scientology being a cult and other religions being a cult are not mutually exclusive options so you don't have to say "no" just because of what you think about other religions.

I would go the other extreme: no religion is a cult.  

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: wonder if we have any scientologists here. Not nice to call someone's religion a cult, might even be a COC violation... I put no because  believing in psychic toxins isn't any more ludicrous than some of the other shit people believe as part of their religion. Well, none of the answers available to my question exclude the possibility of other religions being a cult.  Scientology being a cult and other religions being a cult are not mutually exclusive options so you don't have to say "no" just because of what you think about other religions. I would go the other extreme: no religion is a cult.

I totally understand.  I didn't mean you had to see it according to that possibility I described.  I was just saying you could have those two at the same time.  I didn't know if you had considered it that way or not.
But I understand where you're coming from.  You're saying that you grant it as much recognition as a religion as any other religion (I think).

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: wonder if we have any scientologists here. Not nice to call someone's religion a cult, might even be a COC violation... I put no because  believing in psychic toxins isn't any more ludicrous than some of the other shit people believe as part of their religion. Well, none of the answers available to my question exclude the possibility of other religions being a cult.  Scientology being a cult and other religions being a cult are not mutually exclusive options so you don't have to say "no" just because of what you think about other religions. I would go the other extreme: no religion is a cult.   I totally understand.  I didn't mean you had to see it according to that possibility I described.  I was just saying you could have those two at the same time.  I didn't know if you had considered it that way or not. But I understand where you're coming from.  You're saying that you grant it as much recognition as a religion as any other religion (I think).

yup

Actually scientologists remind me a lot of Mormons.  Some pretty strange beliefs compared to mainstream religion, but the people are some of the nicest on the earth.

note: I'm not saying Mormonism = Scientology, I'm simply commenting on how happy and well adjusted the Mormons and Scientologists I know are.