No this isn't a pick up line, I know that your heart belongs to Imbrog|io.[:D]

After seeing this picture, I got to thinking...



That's a great pic by the way.  But I was wondering if I can hire you to teach my lovely girlfriend the love of firearms?  Hell, I'd be happy with tolerance of firearms!

Seriously though, how the hell do I warm the lady up to the idea of firearms, especially ones that go "brrrraaapt?"  The girl has been around guns when she was young, her father hunts, and some of her male friends have taken her shooting when she was younger.  I've successfully taught several females (and guys) to shoot, who previously had some sort of adversion to firearms, but no luck with her so far.  She's the one, so I don't want to rush her, or make her feel pressured, but I want her to warm up to the idea that guns WILL be in her life someday, if she wants to share a life with me.  

Any ideas???

I'd love to have a pic of her shooting my Benelli someday.

Not to answer for MM, but here's my thoughts:

You're right, don't rush or pressure her.  That will turn anybody off to anything.  Don't make it a big deal.  It may be something she'll never get into.  It may be she tries it out, and loves it.  It's also far less intimidating in a group setting, like a shoot or a bunch of people going out, because there's safety in numbers when you make a fool of yourself.  

The biggest thing is to make her feel comfortable about it.  Another plus to the group setting is that it can be intimidating for her if you're the one trying to teach her.  It's hard for people to show weakness to their loved ones, like lack of skill in something.  Also teaching someone you are involved with brings in all sorts of other personal things into play which can affect the training.  If you go as a group, or better yet to one of the shoots, she can learn from others without feeling awkward.  Also she can socialize easily with others, instead of just sitting at the shooting bench watching you blast away, bored out of her mind.  

Keep the first few outings short and simple.  Only one or two guns.  Only a couple hours max.  Don't make it seem like some whole expedition has to be carried out in order to go shoot.  Make it as easy as possible.

Don't keep pestering her about it either.  She has to be ready in her mind to try new things (that goes with anything, not just shooting).  I was married about a year when my then wife asked if she could go shooting.  We had a great time.  She never turned into a shooter, and never went again, but we still had a good time together and that's what it's all about.  I've had girlfriends since then ask to go shooting after I left the idea open to them.  If it's something you enjoy, she'll probably want to try it out if you make it clear you want to include her.  Just don't make it seem like some condition to being together.  

The biggest thing is to take it at her pace and make her feel comfortable.  NO PRESSURE!  

Ross

Not to speak for my good friend MM, but -

Start her out on .22 rimfire bolt action, or even get her a decent pellet gun.

Let her learn the thrill of accuracy without the fear of recoil or "danger" of autoloading.

And eventually she may get to learn to like "bbrrraaaaaaaappppppp."

But that is NOT the place to start.

Not to speak for MM but I think I just got two girls addicted to shooting guns over the weekend.  I've got several suggestions, one of which is make sure you take her to see Tomb Raider.  I haven't seen it yet but the fact that the main character is female and is shooting guns seems to help.

For one it took over a year and a half, so be patient.  She is my brother's girlfriend and has been around guns and tolerated them a year and a half ago but didn't want anything to do with them.  She just sat and watched.  At last year's 4th of July party she also sat and watch others shoot the guns, including several females, I think this helped.  This year for the 4th of July party she said that she wanted to shoot a cool gun.

Important points:
Females are scared of the recoil of firearms, so get small caliber guns, ported if possible and the weakest ammo you can find.  Re-assure them that it won't knock them on their ass.

Provide instant feedback.  Shooting at paper targets is ok but not very fun.  Setup a row of pop bottles or cans.  Their eyes will get really big when they knock one over and they will want to shoot more.  I have video proof of this.

Make sure they see Tomb Raider and that you have two manageable pistols available.  It was amazing to see two small females who 30 minutes ago were afraid to shoot one hand gun, ask if they could shoot two handguns at the same time just like Lora Croft!  I'm still in awe of a 5'4" 110lb 19 year old grabbing two Glocks end emptying the mags at the same time.

Now depending upon how receptive the girl is, you can try other guns.  I happend to have an M1 Garand which I somehow convinced the girls they could shoot without getting nocked down.  TRUST is a big factor here.  If you give the girl a .44 mag and say it won't kick much and they find out otherwise, THEY WILL NOT WANT TO SHOOT ANYMORE.  Be honest about the recoil and re-assure that they will handle it.  Shoot the firearm in front of them so they can see how it handles.

I was able to convince them to shoot the M1 Garand but they were scared.  When I handed they rifle over to them and they felt how heavy it was they got scared again.  I talked them through the proper stance for holding the gun as well as how to hold it.  An M1 kicks pretty good and will leave a bruise if you do not hold it properly.  I talked both girls into shooting one shot, when they did both had the expression "wow that really kicked hard" on their face.  But both were expecting it and both were holding the rifle properly so the kick was managed.  Both girls then proceeded to shoot another 5 rounds with a big smile on their face.

Time, patients, trust, proper training, managable firearms, instant feedack, re-assurance, seeing other females shoot.  All these things will help get a girl to want to shoot.

Well, hell.
Since she and I are going to one day be married, and have giant Norwegian babies with 140 IQ's, I guess i'll answer for her.

I agree. Start her off with a .22, but not a rifle.
Rifles can be a bit more intimidating to the "Tyro" shooter, since the recoil is directed into the body. Even the anemic recoil of the .22 Rimfire, couples with the "crack" could be enough to dissuade a shooter who has an aversion to guns in the first place.
I say start her off with a .22 Pistol.
I personally have taken a lot of women shooting for the first time, and I have learned that the .22 pistol is not nearly as intimidating as any rifle.
They can hold it away from them, and plug away. As they get more comfortable with it, you see intentionial aim begin to develop.

I say Rimfire pistol.
Everyone should own one, and it's the best firearm to start on.
My .02. [:)]

McUZI

Or you could take a sincere interest in one of their hobbies, or go to a movie they want to see. It only seems fair.
Of course you may regret it, my current is  always bitching about my ammo comsumption.
[uzi]

Had a "GUN DOG" that was gun shy. Took her to the range and leashed her up in the shade. She spent the next 4 Saturdays at the range. She came around. You can try all the "new age-feel
good" krap and waste your time and hers or you
can go behavioral and get it over with.

I agree with HANGFIRE.

Tie her up to a pole.

I can vouch for much of what SWIRE said.

My wife was neutral to supportive of my purchase and shooting and teaching our kids to shoot but she was not a shooter. Took her to the range a few times and she had fun shooting paper targets but got board quickly and she was afraid to shoot my Sime-auto hand guns because she was afraid of recoil and the rearward motion of the slide. She also had an unusually hard time learning to use iron sights; but that a different issue.

Purchased her two revolvers .38SPL and .22 and searched for the lightest target loads I could find and took her to a place where the kids and I had been going to shoot cans and other types of reactive targets.
She loves her revolvers and the AR’s and our kids .22 rifles now. In the last month she has gone from never saying “can we go shooting” to taking our kids out shooting by herself to our own private range where she can shoot cans and computer monitors and TV sets.

THISISME

Wearing sandals at a shoot with over 100+ people at it, with lots of full auto?   Man, you have some set of stones to do that.  
c-rock

Sorry about the delay in response... I was at a party all yesterday that I am [i]still[/i] trying to recover from... [:D]

Two things first:

1) _McUzi... 2 carat, princess cut, highest quality, platinum setting [:D]

2) Regarding the sandals, it was hot.  I have a high tolerance for pain.

Back to the topic at hand... a few things I'd need to know.  Is this woman already comfortable handling handguns but you want to step her up to semi and full auto?  Or is she completely uneasy around guns?

If it's the latter, here's my best advice.  Invite her over one night for dinner.  When you two are done with dinner, move into the living room, settle down and start talking.  About five minutes into the conversation, act like you just remembered you have to clean your .22 handgun (say you went shooting) and ask her if she would mind if you did it while you two are talking.  Most women will not turn down an opportunity to keep a man talking. [:D]  

Bring out the .22 and disassemble it.  Most people are afraid that a gun is going to suddenly "go off."  If it is in pieces, she'll realize that is an impossibility.  While you are cleaning it, point out different parts.  Do so in a way that she has to handle the pieces i.e. "See that?  No?  Here, hold it up to the light."  This will get her over her fear of touching a firearm.  If she is really interested, by the time you reassemble the gun, she'll be comfortable enough to hold it.  

At this point, should her a few things.. how to insert and drop a mag.  How to operate the slidelock.  If it's okay, ask her if she'd like to dry fire it.  AFTER she is comfortable with all of this, ask her if she'd like to go shoot THAT WEAPON some time.  This is why it is important it is a .22 that you use in this routine.  Almost no recoil.

If she says no, tell her the offer stands if she'd ever like to go.  Don't bring it up again.  Do clean weapons every third time she comes over.  Familiarity breeds comfort.  

If she says yes, explain everything she'll need to know when you go to the range.  Show her how to properly secure a weapon and have her practice.  This way she won't be embarrassed that she looks like a complete novice when you get there... plus safety is key.  

From .22 to full auto is just a waiting game.  I am a recoil junkie so I think I went from the .22 to the .41 magnum the first day.  [}:D]

When she's shooting the .22, you shoot a .380 (stepping up, get the idea?).  Tell her it's got a little more recoil and ask her if she'd like to try it.  Never push the issue.  Never make a huge leap.. like from a .22 to a shotgun with deer slugs.  You'll sour her for life.  

As for rifles, I find .22lr's and the AR to be very comfortable with little recoil.  The AK is not as comfortable in my opinion.  I love the FAL but it kicks.. best to wait on that one.  When you really want to get her stepping up into full auto, take her to one of the organized shoots.  I've found everyone is so friendly and encouraging... great environment to try new stuff. [:D]

The biggest thing is don't hide the guns.  Show her how to check the chamber and verify it isn't loaded (her peace of mind) and then just do what you normally would do... dry fire while you're watching t.v. or whatever.  She'll get used to their presence.  The rest is just a matter of time.

Well said, MM - tho I could have said it in less words [:D], namely -

KNOWLEDGE DISPELLS FEAR.

I think you made a point I have often made - DISASSEMBLE the gun right in front of people.

They will see that no evil spirit leaps from the gun [:D] and they will see that is just a mechanical device, like  a clock or a can opener.

Must you [i]always[/i] insist on having the last word?  [rolleyes]

I'm sorry. No disresect intended. I even put a smiley face in. In computer parlance, that means I was joking. Again, apologies.

Actually, my point was more to emphasize something we agree on (re: disassembly). I'm sorry for whatever I did to cause you to miss that point.

You could try reverse psychology - Telling somebody they CAN'T do something is usually a good way to get them to try!  [i](This might work well if your girlfriend is very opinionated.)[/i]

Last word... [}:D]

OR after making her your sex slave....simply order her to become proficient with firearms.

Just an idea.

Disassemble a Mk II in front of her, then try to put it back together, you'll show her just how much tolerance for %@%&*@#&%%& Rugers you have!

heh.

D.

I thought I was the only one who thought Ruger was trying to make a Chinese puzzle box when they made the Mk I and Mk II!

MM, gimee some shugga!

Sorry, Imbroglio, but I traded my soul to McUzi for a custom .45 and some smoked oysters... [;)]

I like that idea, is that how you did it with SteyrGirl?  I'll work on that one.

Thanks for comparing my future wife with your dog.  I think I'll leave this one with no further commment...

Dude...  You married her after all that, right?

No problem, I've been away from the computer also, besides everyone gave excellent comments,
Thanks to Swire, Ross, Garandman, McUzi, etc.

To answer your question, she isn't comfortable with guns at all.  I'm saving the C3 thing with her for MUCH later on in the relationship.

So I have to tackle that fact that she doesn't want anything to do with guns.  I have been letting her in on safety issues slowly for quite some time.  I even talk about guns in front of her, (I'm sure she is ignoring me the whole time!) so I am working on it slowly.  She's gone from saying she'll never have guns in her house, to accepting that I am a safe and responsible individual, and that guns aren't intrinsically dangerous.

I think that once she actually goes shooting with me, then she might get into it.  So the biggest thing right now, is getting her to actually want to go to the range to shoot with me.  Once that happens, I will start her of small, as you suggested, and work my way up.

I had a break through a couple months ago.  I had beeen shooting, and I had my HK91 disassembled in it's case.  She actually was curious, and I put it together for her and she actually held the damn thing!  To bad I didn't have the camera.

BTW, I wasn't planning to let her shoot any MGs anytime soon, but she has been brainwashed by society that full-auto is bad.  I want her to eventually accept C3 as a legitimate legal way for civies to own MGs, despite the BATF BS one has to go through.  I have the C3 bug big time, so that needs to happen if I'm ever going to be 'allowed' to buy $8K+ MGs AFTER we are married!

Hkocher, If getting her to go with you to the range is a problem I have an answer.

Next time going to the range comes up in conversation you could mention that you are a good teacher. And that the other ladies at the range are always asking for help and that they have become much better shots.

THISISME

Ha ha, that's a GREAT idea!

I was thinking about that today.  I'm planning on taking a buddy shooting this weekend.  He has a beautiful wife, I might ask him to see if she wants to come along.  If she doesn't, maybe I'll tell a little white lie about how much the wife loved shooting, and how she wants to go again, etc.  Jealousy is powerful stuff![:D]

You're absolutely right... and please realize if this is your tactic you're playing with fire.  

What you're saying is you want to intentionally make your girlfriend feel insecure about your relationship to try to pressure her into going shooting with you... does that [i]really[/i] sound like a good idea?? [>:/]

Yeah, you are right MM, I consider myself admonished.

It was a thought, of course the idea didn't last long.  I'm not going to do it, but it might help her to see that other women are out there shooting happily.

HKOCKER
Why does a man at arms choose a frail that
dislikes arms?
Why does a man ask a woman for advice?
Why don't you listen to THISISME?
The keyword is behavioral. Stimulus/response.
You gonna end up like MS Magnums X.

Very curious, Hangfire, what YOU know about my ex and that whole situation?  

Did you know that when all was said and done, his collection of firearms was doubled, possibly tripled, in the four years we were together??  And that the last two major purchases, [i]I[/i] went down to the gun store and bought for him???

So, tell me again how ending up like my ex would be such a bad thing... [rolleyes]

Maybe HKocher should just be honest with his gal and explain why he believes that she (or anyone) should enjoy shooting?





......oh, never mind...that's too old-fashioned.

Not confused... just can't remember the exact count.  My ex and I have been split up for almost 3 years now.  

And is that your [i]best[/i] retort?  Hmmmm?

A) YOU- Don't dignify this fat (He looks like "Grimace" of McDonalds mascot fame)piece of Central Florida trailer trash with an answer.

B) Hangfire. You have exhibited a bitterness towards women since day one. Having heard what you look like from people who know you from NoFlo show circut, I can understand why. You are one ghastly looking motherfucker.
Also, I personally know who you are. Not only do I know that you are "John King", I know EXACTLY who you are from a show. And you know that I have your home address. Do I need to prove myself again?
For reasons I can't really say, you can take any flames you have towards her and aim them at me.
But be aware....
I will be at the Next Orlando show...
And maybe the nest Lakeland show...
Defnitley the next Daytona show...

We will bump into each other one day soon. You can bet your ass. And when we do, keep in mind I have absolutley no respect or regard for you, and I will gladly put a boot upside your old white trash head.


No fucking doubt.

HANGFIRE, my guess is it has been a long time since you had a committed relationship with a woman.  Over and over on this board you have shown a serious animosity, or at the very least intolerance, for the female of the species.  



I did not "choose" her, at the risk of sounding cheesy, love just happens.  This is something you might not have experienced.  When you care about someone, you try to work out the 'little things'.  If you don't understand this yet, I pity you.  We all deserve someone to love us and to make our lives more meaningful.

Yes, I just called gun ownership a 'little thing'!  String me up and throw rocks at my testicles, I've been converted by the "frails"!!!  But it's true, some things are more important in life than even (GASP!!!) guns!

My girlfriend isn't going to take away my guns like the UN or the JBTs, so I'm not to worried about her having her own independent opinions.  I WOULD like her to feel the same way about the important things, but I'm not so insecure as to seek out a woman with identical beliefs and opinions (I have a dog for that), nor am I so egotistical as to try to change her to be more like myself.  Maybe we should ask ourselves why does a woman with a love of the arts 'choose' a brute like myself with a love of guns.  That's the real mystery.

Will I ever give up my guns for her???  Hell no, but I won't give up on her either, that is the purpose of this thread.  If she realizes guns aren't evil, my job is done.  If she learns to love guns, better yet.



Jeezus man!  Again, realize it is the 21st century.  I understand that you are an older fellow, but this view of women as ignorant and dependant objects is more disturbing than McUZI's race issues that you like to attack so often.  At least he has a bit of respect for the women of this board

Who better to ask about teaching my lady the finer points of firearms than a woman with a love and respect of firearms???

I feel sorry for you for not understanding my predicament...

Hangfire is just pissed off because of the ATF incident.   I guess one of the agents that paid him a visit was a female....    From what I hear, they will be paying you another visit. (re:  the AK that you sold at the June show)

What a piece of trailer park trash.  


Miss Magnum has more class in her trigger finger than you have in your XXXXXXXX.  




[edited by HANGNAIL on 7-5-2001]

Video of HANGFIRE's Trailer shown on local news !


[url]www.wsvn.com/news/local/box3/video.ram[/url]


(warning -- do NOT watch if you have recently eaten)

OOOOZZZZYYYYY BBBBBAAAAABBBBBYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!
You prove nothing by knowing my name, address,
and telephone number.
You and your friends have used it in many of
your posts as well as my email address. You and
your friends have used my personal information to sign me up for subscriptions I didn't want.
You messed with my Ar15.com password. 20 times!
You get bent out of shape because I post an address I received from an LEO that is proported to be yours, you say it is an ex-girlfriends. You open a racist/porn website
and plaster my name all over it as if I am doing the posting.
"FOR REASONS I REALLY CAN'T SAY" If I feel like saying something to MS. MAGNUM I will say it!
She seems quite capable of taking care of herself.
As to the gunshows you will be at; SO WHAT!
As to the boot; YOU AIN'T GOT THE BALLS PRETENDER!

ATF incident? What are you talking about?
"(re: the AK that you sold at the June show)"
June of what year?
What gunshow?
What AK?
Since I wasn't at the "visit" you are referring to I can't comment about the female ATF.
If the same voices that told you about the first visit are telling you about the next visit
I suggest you make a visit to a SHRINK!!

I noticed that, too. I tried to look the other way....Hope that guy doesn't shoot his foot often...

Locked, by request of 2 members' e-mails to me.

The personal attacks have gone beyond annoying.
I like all you guys, and I'm not going to take sides, but I'm locking this since I can't just reach back and smack you.