User Panel
Posted: 9/23/2004 1:40:48 PM EDT
Just so you can understand where I'm coming from -
Evolution attacks the HEART of Christianity in two ways - 1. Evolution is always looking for the "next great advancement" of the species. In reality, the next great advancement of the species has already come - the salvation Jesus Christ purchased for man. In salvation, man is elevated higher than he ever has been in human history. Man will eventually realize his penultimate state when the universe ends and he is re-united in sinless perfection with his God. Evolution takes what Jesus Christ has already accomplished (for those who receive Him as Saviour) and make it something to come at a future date, and renders God's supernatural to be a relatively meaningless natural phenomenon. 2. In Creation, God provided man the visual, tactile, tangible evidence necessary for a man to accept in faith #1 above. Creation (intelligent design by a sovereign God) is God's proof text for salvation in Jesus Christ (as explained above) The Creation is evidence of an AMAZING God. In short, evolution is the PERFECT counter attack to attempt to negate God's free offer of salvation. It minimizes salvations proof text to "random mutation" and it renders God's supernatural redemptive work for man to be a natural process. These things convince me evolution is the VERY work of Satan intent on taking you to hell, and keeping you from achieving full joy in a personal relationship with the God of the universe. Just so you understand.... And I'm not really interested in arguing the points, but would be glad to clarify the above. |
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Amen, garandman.
It is simply a repeat of that ancient Greek misconception that 'Man is the measure of all things.' When we know that the opposite is true - 'What is man, that Thou art mindful of him?' Eric The(Believing)Hun |
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"So you can understand why I hate the lie of evolution... "
Actually, no, I can't. |
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Yes, they do. No sensible individual argues that. But they DO NOT MACRO evolve - from apes into humans. But again, the details of evoution aren't really the point. |
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Actually its a proven fact that there is a link between species, speciation has always been the weak point of the theory and were still looking for transitive forms.
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Evolution is just the name that we have given to the work that God does.
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And that's OK. I like to be able to explain it to you, and if you have any specific ???'s please ask. |
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+1 I still don't see why people have so much trouble roconciling faith and science. Must be an ego thing. |
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Explain to me why
a)evolution couldn't be God's work? I'm personally not going to run about telling the Almighty what he can and cannot do (nor am I going to accept basically heathen creation stories). b)since Christ himself was created specifically by god, without the whole normal people doin' the deed thing, why would he be assumed to be subject to any of the normal rules of evolution and nature? Evolution isn't an attack on Christianity. It's just slowly revealing how god does in fact work (Which is far stranger than most people think). God gave us brains to create science, and to discover such things. As my parents, both scientists, say, the more you really look at science, evolution, astronomy, etc. the more you both understand god and see the majesty of his creation. But I suppose we could all burn our books and smash our telescopes and miss out on how great god really is. |
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I've NEVER been able to understand why evolution and Christianity can't coexist happily.
There is simply too much evidence (proof really) that evolution exists and controls the development of species on earth. There is also no way that the biblical story of creation can be true as written. There is also no real explanation for any number phenomena on the earth and in the universe. There is no denying, to me anyway, that it took something of immense power to create and to put us herre. I belive that was God. That he set in motion a PROCESS for things to occur as they have since the begninning of time. The culmination of that process was man and his ability to reason and choose his own course. Intelligent design, or whatever you call it, is my belief. |
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[Steven Wright]If we evolved from apes, why are there still apes?[/Steven Wright]
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how do you feel about book burnings? |
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I'll accept evolutionary theiry to the degree it agrees with the written Word of God. Macro evolution over vast expanses of time is DIRECTLY contradictory to Scripture. ("The evening and the morning were the first day..." etc etc etc)
Christ was not created by God - He is very God of very God, as the thir4d person of the Trinity.
The more I look at science, creation, astronomy, anatomy, biology, psychology, etc, the more I see a sentient Creator God. |
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STRONGLY against them. Pollutes the environment |
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I wish I would have said that. Good one. |
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Very simply, MUCH of macro evolution theory disagrees DIRECTLY with the Word of God, the Bible. But again - the POINT here is to explain WHERE and WHY evolution ATTACKS SPECIFICALLY Christ's work of redemption. As such, Chritianity and macro evolution can NEVER co-exist. |
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Your not going to like this then..
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I'm OK with that - to the degree evolutionary theory agrees with Scripture. I believe in micro evolution. But again - the POINT here is to explain WHERE and WHY evolution ATTACKS SPECIFICALLY Christ's work of redemption. As such, Chritianity and macro evolution can NEVER co-exist. |
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There is no evidence. It's the same as discovering a whole slew of computers and theorizing that Pentiums evolved from 8086 machines when it's obvious that someone designed and created them. |
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There's a shocker - evolutionists AGAIN move the goal posts. |
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I'll respect their rights to their own beliefs, practice of their Judeo-Christian beliefs, but I have zero interest in them myself or in their beliefs being mandated by law. I am a Moral and Ethical person, withOUT obeisance to a Religion. And that's all I'll say on it. I have no intent / desire to insult True Believers, or argue the points. |
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That's true of me also. My faith in God is IMMENSELY personal.
Cool. Be good. |
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I love it when you guys compare mechanical creations to biological systems. Wait a minute, my car didn't replace its own water pump, but I just had a cut heal. I'm so confused now... |
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1)It contradicts an old testiment story that has been shown to have been adapted from earlier polytheistic stories from the Mesopatamina era. Somebody took a heathen story and dressed it up. 2)Oops, my mistake. *slaps forhead* Anyway, since Christs is god, and god isn't human, Christ can't be subject to evolution at all because he's god. |
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Where is this proof of a link? IF we evolved from apes how come we still have apes that are fully apes and humans that are fully humans but no half ape half humans running around? Edited to say: It's not that I don't believe in and support evolution, things do change to fit the environment etc, BUT, I know man did not evolve from apes and nothing will change my mind. |
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I am also not going to bother to debate it, because experience has demonstrated to me that logic and reason cannot overcome willful ignorance.
Not WANTING to believe in something does not make it a lie - no matter how feverently someone might want it to be. If someone has really compelling personal reasons for not wanting to believe in something (whether it is evolution, the moon-landing, or an airliner hitting the pentagon) that's fine. They can BELIEVE whatever they want. As Socrates (supposedly) said: "The only good is knowledge, and the only evil is ignorance" |
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When creationist deny natural selection they lose all credibility. |
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Why would we? What niche would they serve? Depending on how hairy you think they were H. Neanderthals could of fit the bill you are looking for, but we killed them off. We have almost killed off all the other apes too. They occupied territory and forests we want, and they couldn't compete with us and our weapons. |
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Hoppy8420 |
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Someday all the bible thumpers will die and then find out they were lied to.
When you die that's it - Game Over. Religion was a means to control the masses at a time when a control was needed. It's just never stopped and now bad things happen in the name of religion. |
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1: Evolution of animals CAN exist in the context of the Bible IMHO. They weren't scientists way back then... so they did the best they could.
2: Humans are made in God's image. That's it. Kaput. There is no "missing link" * The Australiopithecus bones and Cro Magnon man and Lucy... They're essentially monkeys. Not us. I've read a lot of science magazines and journals... Not a one of them has convinced me that we are descendants of apes/chimps/mud puppies or whatever they say crawled out of the primordial ooze. 3: I like how smug some non believers become when we discuss Bible issues. There are some very intelligent people that believe in God. Einstein believed in God (read that in the new Discover issue on him). Hawking believes in God ("A Brief History of Time"). 4: There are so many unanswered questions... Giants... The Flood... There's more, I just can't think of it right now. 5: God said it, I believe it, that about does it for me God bless. * Personal theory time. I think that there is a possibility that the reason there is no missing link... is that it was preempted by the Fall of Lucifer. Possible? I have no idea. I need to research that. |
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Creationists and evolutionist all agree this universe began with a blinding flash of light.
To believe it happened 10,000 years ago you have to believe God intentionally left overwhelming evidence to the contrary to deceive humanity. What came before the flash is an interesting question, since there is no way to know. I believe there was a big crunch prior to the big bang, making creation eternal. I just like the symmetry, but if any overwhelming evidence to the contrary were presented my belief would be subject to it. The notion of an omnipresent creator sitting on his hands so to speak for eternity, then creating the universe in six days, then sitting on his hands again fascinates me. Is He the creator? or was creation just a whim? The genetic difference between a human and a chimpanzee is less than 2%, we are mammals. We are not the culmination of evolution, in all likelyhood we're an evolutionary deadend like the sabre-tooth, too successful to survive for long. Genesis 1 is a remarkably accurate representation of the big bang and evolution, so much so that I do not believe it was written from ignorance, but rather it is likely the remnant of a technologically advanced society. Call it a parable inspired by God if you wish, it's as good a guess as any. The belief that the universe was created 10,000 years ago for our benefit, that we are different than the other inhabitants of creation, that humanity is the centerpiece of creation made in the image of God himself and all creation exists as a background to provide us with a choice, that the choice is which religion is true, and that you made the right choice, is vanity. Ego is right, it's pride unmatched, except maybe by the followers of the other branches of western religious tradition. |
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Nobody I know of believes the universe was created 10,000 years ago. That is lunacy.
Also, there is nothing in the Bible stating there are not other inhabited planets. They could be having the same exact conversation on "laser15.com". |
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It's a belief fostered by fundamentalism, and creationists. Honestly, I don't have any idea what anybody I know thinks of how old the universe is, but I don't think any of them would object to the thought of the Earth being in the neighborhood of 4 billion years old. Of course, now we'll find out who objects on this board. |
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I'm not very religious but evolution is not even logical.
Now I know micro-evolution exists, that is where one species changes some over time due to influences in environment etc... (For example people are taller now than in the past because of improved diets) But I'm talking about one species evolving from another. The odds against DNA assembling by chance are 10 to the 40,000 power to one (Fred Hoyle, 1981). That's the odds for one DNA strand to assemble. Now factor in the odds of it growing into a living organism, survivng, and spawning a whole planet of organisms that survive. All by chance? "Natural Selection" cannot produce cross-species changes. And, without such changes, there can be no evolution. All the offspring produced in the plant and animal kingdom remain in the same species. Evolutionary theory requires change by random action alone. Yet, if even half those random changes were positive, the other half would have to be damaging. How can total randomness select only that which is better and move only in advantageous directions? |
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I don't believe that there is evolution of the human species, although I do believe in the evolution of civilization and culture. Also, I do recognize the tendency for animals to adjust to their surroundings to more effectly co-exist. I find it highly improbable that through sequential epiphanies or the competition derived from co-existance, man has elevated himself from the state of a single celled organism to that of an intelligent being. I do, however, believe that man has developed his way of thinking through the acquisition of knowledge passed down throug the years. Man has evolved his way of thinking about science in such a way to create identifiable divisions between eras. And, although this progression of the intellect has changed mans outlook on life, I do not believe that it has created new or original theories about eternal values, principles, or morals. The ideas of Aristotle, Socrates, and Plato are still just as widely contemplated today as they were a 1500 years ago. Science will not define God nor will it define the scope of the meaning of life, this is why science, although pragmatic and the precursor of convenient technology, will never replace philosophy.
GRH - God's Right Hand - "Hold No Quarter. Feel No Remorse." |
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Exactly right. It's a self-defeating tactic. |
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I am a fundamentalist and a creationist. I have no idea whatsoever how old the earth or the universe is. The Bible doesn't say, therefore it must not matter regarding my salvation. I could take a guess, but it would be just like yours. A guess. |
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The disadvantaged don't survive.
Is there so much more difference between a chimpanzee and a human than say a chihuahua and a doberman? The canines have common ancestry, why not the hominids? |
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Apes don't evolve into humans. You really don't understand evolution, do you? |
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If a human being just became, like creationism says happened why does a human share 95%+ of its genes with apes?
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I hate the lie of evolution because there is ZERO basis for it in fact, and MUCH evidence that directly contradicts it.
As for it's effect of Christianity, I'll leave that to others to argue, simply because I believe that Christianity deals with issues infinitely greater than what our own limited and oftentimes idiotic understanding of the physical universe is. |
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If we evolved from apes, Why are there still apes?? |
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Really? Please provide the proof, and an explanation why even avowed Darwinists admit the theory, THEORY, mind you, is rapidly falling apart around their ears.... |
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