Read from the bottom up. . .this guy is selling the Colt 6920HB on Sturmgewehr and other places.
He is a POS and a liar!




D-

I contacted my FFL and unfortunately your FFL is not in their system.  I told them of your dilemma and they advised me to have you seek another FFL to do this transaction for you.

I think that means we are at the end of our opportunity on this weapon.  
The price is now $1695.00


John


---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: M4-CQBR
Date:  Mon, 20 Sep 2004 17:02:35 -0400

John,

My FFL is P. ***** of PAC-N-ARMS and he is out of Sanford, Maine.


Regards,
db

________________________________________________________________________________

Hi D-

I'm sure we can work this out.  I am not sure why your FFL has a problem sending to me, I would be a bit concerned that I would not be able to match your funds to your singed FFL immediately, which would delay your order, if he sent to my FFL directly. My FFL will ship to your FFL.  Please let me know the name of your FFL so I can check with my FFL to see if he is already on record.  If so your FFL would not need to do anything except notify you when it arrives.  If not on record with my FFL I would need him to send me a signed copy of his FFL so that I could take it in to my FFL for transfer.  The reason I don't want him to send the FFL to my FFL is that my FFL is huge and I don't want them to have to look though all their mail for one item.  If your FFL refused to cooperate you may think of using someone else.  If you are comfortable sending funds and potentially being delayed in shipping then I will not stop you from doing that.  If you will give me the name of your FFL I can call my FFL to see if he is already on file.

Let me know what you want to do,


The price on these has gone up to $1695.00, but I will honor the $1449.00 price if you can work things out and you can deliver the funds in a timely manner.

Thanks,
John

_ _________________________________________________________________________
John,

My FFL will not ship his copy of his FFL to a non FFL.
Why won't you let him mail it to your FFL?
________________________________________________________________________


Hi D-

I am in Arizona my eBay name is -j- for you to check on.  I am not a FFL and the price does include shipping through UPS to your FFL.  Signed FFL needs to be sent to me, with payment using cashiers check or money order.   My FFL is not an individual but a very large distributor of weapons.  Let me your FFL name or company name and I will check to see if he is already on file with my FFL.  I ship out to you the day funds arrive and send a tracking # notification of shipment e-mail.

Thanks,
John

_________________________________________________________________________

John,

How do you take payment and are you an FFL? What is your contact info?
Is shipping included at this $1449 price?  How do you ship?
My FFL will only send a copy of his license to another FFL


_________________________________________________________________________
D-

I have pulled my add but have a few more available.  There will be a price increase for the remaining weapons after tomorrow.  I will honor the $1449.00 price for you if you are serious.
Thanks,
John

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: M4-CQBR
Date:  Fri, 17 Sep 2004 21:31:17 -0400

John,

Did you sell this weapon yet?
Let me know if you still have it, as I would like to discuss a possible sale with you.

Thanks for your time,

What a dick.

ETA -

1. You/he can ship a long gun to an FFL without having it come from another FFL. Also, he does not need a copy of the recieving FFL's license. Federal Law does not require the recieving FFL to give him a copy of the license. So, he is jerking you around with the process.

2. The fact that the FFL he wants to ship from (which is unnecessary) has never done business with the FFL that you want to recieve the firearm is no excuse for $150 price hike!

Run, don't walk away!

Are people seriously paying $1400 for a LEO 6920? Thats freakin NUTS.

Bait and switch... report his ass.

By the way, who exactly is this that we're avoiding?  We want names!

Honest source for brand new Colt 6920 for $659.25 less than this jackass wants!

Quoted: $1449.00

Yours are only what $350 less? BRAND NEW!

yeah I know Steyr has them cheaper. . .but not with a Heavy barrel & no ETA.
I decided I wanted the 6920HB and that is what this is... supposedly this John guy has them on hand.
Hi name is John /  email is [email protected]  and  it shows up as Assault Weapon

Uh, wouldn't a 6920 with a heavy barrel be a 6721? What are you paying the extra $300 for, M4 handguards?

EDIT: I see. It's 1 of 300. To each his own, I guess.

Quoted: Uh, wouldn't a 6920 with a heavy barrel be a 6721? What are you paying the extra $300 for, M4 handguards?

No the Heavy Barrel is exactly that, a HB.  Only 300 were made and it is the closet to an M4 you can get to the Military's M4 except not in full auto and it has a 16" barrel instead a 14.5" barrel.

Not only is my stomach upset at that price, but my head now hurts from reading that bumbleystrapedlefuck.

www.dpmsinc.com/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=BL-11-AP4  $189

I'm just trying to help but it seems you could get this gun built for less.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Uh, wouldn't a 6920 with a heavy barrel be a 6721? What are you paying the extra $300 for, M4 handguards? No the Heavy Barrel is exactly that, a HB.  Only 300 were made and it is the closet to an M4 you can get to the Military's M4 except not in full auto and it has a 16" barrel instead a 14.5" barrel. Ummm I think the 6920 is the closest you can get to a military M4. It is the LE equivalent of the M4. I have never seen a 6920HB in ANY LE catalog, are you positive this guys isn't yanking your leg?

That's what I'm thinking.

I'm far from an expert on Colt model numbers and variations but the M-4's my unit just carried around for 14 months didn't have heavy bbls and looked like the 6920 (With 14.5 bbls).

when  I posted this, I had already decided that it was something to stay away from. . .  good lookin out guys

Lucky you didn't send him any money- it's a ripoff.  

Quoted: Ummm I think the 6920 is the closest you can get to a military M4. It is the LE equivalent of the M4. I have never seen a 6920HB in ANY LE catalog, are you positive this guys isn't yanking your leg?

Here is his add -- www.sturmgewehr.com/webBBS/semi4sale.cgi?read=97021

Colt LE6920HB, new/unfired and unopened in the factory blue label box, .223 16in 1/7 M4 HEAVY BARREL (very rare factory configuration in full heavy barrel 1/300 made) FLAT TOP M4 STYLE LAW ENFORCEMENT CARBINE SEMI W/ REMOVABLE CARRY HANDLE, SLIDING STOCK. The heavy barrel retains the step down for the M203 grenade launcher, but does not narrow under the hand guards like the LE6920 does. This is a special production weapon, which places the M4 heavy barrel used by the military, in a 16-inch length, onto a law enforcement weapon at the factory. There has only been one production of 300 units of the LE6920HB. Again, the box has not been opened and includes 2 X 20 round magazines, cleaning kit, sling and manual.

The upper receiver is marked M4 and all of the other M4 qualities are present. There is a block that would prevent a RDIAS from being used, but it is not pinned like the old ones.
The block can be milled out with no impact to the cosmetics of the weapon.

The price of the LE6920HB is certainly higher than you will pay for a LE6920, but remember this is 1/300 that has been manufactured, not one of ?????? LE6920’s that exist. The production cost for a LE6920HB is higher than that of the LE6920. Colt says that they have to shut down the normal line of production to run a special production piece. (I don’t think they do, but they charge for it anyway.) The LE6920HB is the most desirable configuration available to civilians since the sunset of the AWB and there are only 300 of them in existence. Less than ½ of them will be available to civilaians because they are already in the hands of law enforcement agencies. I am ready to ship as soon as funds and signed copy of FFL arrives.

This offering is tailored for the collector, or serious enthusiast, who recognizes and appreciates the unique opportunity of owning a low production weapon.
SERIOUS INQUIRIES ONLY! Price is $1695.00 shipped to your FFL.

This guy looks like a middleman and doesn't really have the rifles in his possession.  It sounds like he had some kind of deal with a distributor.  You send your money and FFL copy to him and he forwards payment and FFL to the distributor, less his cut.

Well, his prices are ridiculous, BUT if I were him, I would not deal with YOU, no offense.

If I got this straight, your dealer will not send his FFL to an individual???  You need to find a new dealer.  

I've sold several guns over the net, and each time, the buyer has their dealer send me a copy of the license, and I ship it to the dealer.  Buyer gets the gun transferred through their FFL and everyone is happy.  There is no need for me to contact MY local FFL, that's just one more person I'd have to pay when it isn't needed.  It wouldn't be worth the hassle for me (unless I really needed the money), so I'd find a new buyer.

Unless I am confused here, it sounds like your FFL is causing the trouble.

Your buying a very common gun.  Go somewhere else...

Quoted: Well, his prices are ridiculous, BUT if I were him, I would not deal with YOU, no offense. If I got this straight, your dealer will not send his FFL to an individual???  You need to find a new dealer.   I've sold several guns over the net, and each time, the buyer has their dealer send me a copy of the license, and I ship it to the dealer.  Buyer gets the gun transferred through their FFL and everyone is happy.  There is no need for me to contact MY local FFL, that's just one more person I'd have to pay when it isn't needed.  It wouldn't be worth the hassle for me (unless I really needed the money), so I'd find a new buyer. Unless I am confused here, it sounds like your FFL is causing the trouble.

There is nothing wrong with my FFL. I've been doing business with him for more than 10 years and he in fact does ALL of my firearms transfers for free.
There is no need for an "individual" to have a copy of my FFL's license. What would they do with it?
Many FFL's will not send their license to a non FFL . . . how many here can vouch for this?
I have seen posts here about this, and some have even had problems with "individuals" using the FFL license to obtain weapons illegally.
So tell me why my FFL is the problem? I don't see it.

None of my FFl here in NY will recieve from an individual, one actually got mad at me for asking  him (this happend TODAY), also 3 diferent ffl's  flatly refused to recieve any AR15 lower recievers unless assembled as rifles. in a "NY leagle configuration" regardless wether or not they were pre-ban recievers or not.

Quoted: None of my FFl here in NY will recieve from an individual, one actually got mad at me for asking  him (this happend TODAY), also 3 diferent ffl's  flatly refused to recieve any AR15 lower recievers unless assembled as rifles. in a "NY leagle configuration" regardless wether or not they were pre-ban recievers or not.

whta dos taht have ta do wiht tish tpoic ? ? ?

YOU:There is no need for an "individual" to have a copy of my FFL's license. What would they do with it?
.Many FFL's will not send their license to a non FFL . .  how many here can vouch for this?



ME:None of my FFl's here in NY will recieve from an individual



I'm vouchig for this-    Pretty fuckin straight foward to me.

Maybe everybody is right about you.

Quoted: There is nothing wrong with my FFL. I've been doing business with him for more than 10 years and he in fact does ALL of my firearms transfers for free.

Well, maybe he treats you good, but his policy stinks IMHO.

There is no need for an "individual" to have a copy of my FFL's license. What would they do with it?

Where did you get that idea?  AFAIK The seller needs to have a ink signed copy of the recipient's FFL, otherwise how can he prove that he did in fact ship the gun out of state to a licensed dealer?  I still hold on to some licenses years after the sale, just in case someone from BATFE wants to know where the gun went.

Many FFL's will not send their license to a non FFL . . . how many here can vouch for this? I have seen posts here about this, and some have even had problems with "individuals" using the FFL license to obtain weapons illegally. So tell me why my FFL is the problem? I don't see it.

Well, I've never heard of a dealer who wouldn't send a license to a not FFL.  I guess an 'individual' could hypothetically use the license for evil, but that seems like a stretch.  Maybe I'm wrong.  

BTW, I once had a local dealer send his FFL to an out of state seller, but when the dealer got the gun, he claimed the seller did not have an FFL (the seller did not have a license, nor was he required to have one) and tried to hold the gun (which I had paid good money for).  Needless to say, I settled this by having him call BATF, and the gun was transferred to its rightful owner (me), and I never dealt with the dealer again.

Quoted: Are people seriously paying $1400 for a LEO 6920? Thats freakin NUTS.

There have been dozens sold for $1250.00 that I personally know of.

BigDozer66

Quoted: Only a fool would send a signed copy of his FFL to some stranger who is NOT an FFL holder...all you need is that signed copy of the FFL and money and you can walk away with a gun from any dealer anyplace in the USA...They will log out the gun to the FFL provided and will not do any multi-gun purchase forms (as they would for a private party)...the potential for disaster and liability is huge...

Oh well, I guess every gun dealer that ever did a transfer for me is a fool.  

I am not a dealer.

I have sold guns to people in other states and have always asked for and received a signed in ink copy of their FFL.  If not I don't sell.

If their dealer would have insisted that the FFL go to a dealer or the gun come from a dealer then I would have expected buyer to pick up any costs on my end.  You want the gun to cost you more that would be fine with me.  Maybe that is why the price now is $246 higher.  Maybe that is what the mans FFL is going to charge him to handle it.

Sounds to me like you need to find another dealer or quit whining, suck it up and pay the mans price.

Quoted: yes they are, but I can understand why they did it...you're a silver tounged devil

Uh, thanks, I guess...

Quoted: Many FFL's will not send their license to a non FFL . . . how many here can vouch for this? I have seen posts here about this, and some have even had problems with "individuals" using the FFL license to obtain weapons illegally. So tell me why my FFL is the problem? I don't see it.

Yes, I've heard this before and my opinion is that whatever an FFL wants to do with their license is their business.  I think the best way to do it is for your FFL to supply his license number and address.  That's all that's needed as there is a website (don't really have it right now) you can plug the number into and verify the dealer and address.

I still think this guy is a middleman doing business through some kind of small distributor.  Where ever he's getting these rifles from doesn't want to go through the hassle of verifying an FFL.  They probably *are* an FFL and are accustomed to FFL's they deal with sending a copy of their license that they then put on file for future business.  The guy you were dealing with was worried that if you send your FFL's license copy directly to his distributor they will do business directly with your FFL and cut him out of the loop.  

Quoted: Quoted: Where did you get that idea?  AFAIK The seller needs to have a ink signed copy of the recipient's FFL, otherwise how can he prove that he did in fact ship the gun out of state to a licensed dealer? A non FFL has no legal requirement to keep FFLs on file. He need only verify that he is shipping to a current FFL. SOmething as simply as a ATF EZ Check is all that is needed. FFLs on the other hand are more regulated and required to obtain a original signature copy for their files.

Well, I've always been told to have a signed copy.  That could be wrong, I am often mistaken, and I'm sure you know better since you have an FFL.  However, I still like the paper trail so I can cover my butt.  That way if Agent Smith ever comes knocking on my door asking how Joe Public in TN ended up with my rifle, I can show him the paperwork for Bill's Gun Shack in Memphis.

But like I've said, I've done many person to person sales across states, and the transfers (to or from depending on whether I'm buying or selling) were done through reputable dealers (some are big names in the gun world) and NEVER has a dealer asked for the SELLER'S FFL.  And I've never had to trick or force the dealer into this arrangement (as Garryowen implied), it was simply THEIR policy.

If I was selling, I would pass on the buyer if they had this requirement.  Again, nothing personal, but I don't like going through needless hassles.  There are enough gun laws and regulations, I don't really appreciate it when dealers invent additional hurdles for individual sellers.  

BUT I guess I can see where the dealers are coming from.  If they want to cover their own ass, I can understand that, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.  There are plenty of dealers in the world, so if mine asked for seller's license (knowing it is not required), I would find someone else to do the transfer.  Nothing personal, it's just not worth my time.

On a side note, I don't really see what harm someone could do with an out of state FFL.  I live in MO, what good would a Colorado or Texas license do me?  Surely I couldn't get guns shipped to me in MO using this license, unless I forged it to give it a MO address.  And if I was forging paperwork, why not just fake the entire license?  If someone is willing to go through that much trouble, I'm sure they will find a way to get the guns.  Someone please educate me if I'm being ignorant.

Hey, if a dealer wants to cover their ass because it's not worth the measely $25 transfer on the deal, that's their business.  Afterall, I guess I'm covering my ass by keeping the signed FFL which I now see may not be required.  On the other hand, I don't like additional obstacles added to a perfectly legal person to person (with the necessary FFL to accept the rifle) sale.

Wow, Colt fever is getting rediculous!

Quoted: Only a fool would send a signed copy of his FFL to some stranger who is NOT an FFL holder...all you need is that signed copy of the FFL and money and you can walk away with a gun from any dealer anyplace in the USA...They will log out the gun to the FFL provided and will not do any multi-gun purchase forms (as they would for a private party)...the potential for disaster and liability is huge...

Thats wrong. If you are buying on an FFL, first you have to show ID that matches the FFL, and second, you have to ship to the address on the FFL. You just can't walk into a gun store with a signed copy of an FFL and buy a gun and walk out with it. I've never been refused by a dealer for not providing a return FFL, or refused when I ask for a signed copy of a local FFL when buying a gun. They hand it over, I mail it and then my gun is delivered.

Every transfer I've ever done was this way, and I've bought and sold alot of guns.

Quoted: Quoted: Only a fool would send a signed copy of his FFL to some stranger who is NOT an FFL holder...all you need is that signed copy of the FFL and money and you can walk away with a gun from any dealer anyplace in the USA...They will log out the gun to the FFL provided and will not do any multi-gun purchase forms (as they would for a private party)...the potential for disaster and liability is huge... Thats wrong. If you are buying on an FFL, first you have to show ID that matches the FFL, and second, you have to ship to the address on the FFL. You just can't walk into a gun store with a signed copy of an FFL and buy a gun and walk out with it. I've never been refused by a dealer for not providing a return FFL, or refused when I ask for a signed copy of a local FFL when buying a gun. They hand it over, I mail it and then my gun is delivered. Every transfer I've ever done was this way, and I've bought and sold alot of guns.

First, all a private seller is required to do is ship to an FFL when the gun crosses state lines. No FFL is required when selling & shipping a gun in the same state unless your state law requires it.

Second, a out of state private seller only needs to verify that the address he is shipping the gun to is a valid FFL holder. That's what the ATF EZchek is for. The Receiving dealer provides the first 3 numbers and the last 5 numbers of his FFL to the private seller, seller types them into the EZcheck and ships to the address indicated.

Third, true, you cannot walk into a gun store/show with someone's out of  state FFL and buy a gun. By law the selling FFL is required to ship that gun to the address on the FFL if it is out of state. That's the catch. All someone has to do is scan the FFL edit to add their address, and viol'a, they have their own forged FFL. And that is what is happening in the industry.

In summation, if you are a seller and you are not happy using the ATF EZcheck, then take your gun to another FFL dealer and pay him to ship it to the buyers FFL because a private seller will not get a signed copy from me. That's my policy and I'm sticking to it.

Quoted: If it's the same state, they hand them over... Here in AZ I have 3 good size distributors to pick from. Also, in the case of Cav Arms, it's a real business not some kitchen table outfit, so the address on the FFL and the name aren't going to match anyone’s drivers license. Also, very rarely do I (the signer of the FFL) actually do any of the "fetching" for our FFL, but I have sent one of the boys up to Davidson’s or Joken to pick up things and, as was stated, it’s very easy to edit and FFL….

So a AZ license wouldn't do me much good unless I moved to AZ (or went on a trip) or if I did some major editing.  BUT if I was willing to go that far, what would stop me from creating a Cav Arms FFL from scratch?

I would also be willing to bet you $100 cash I’ve transferred out more guns then you. You guys don’t seem to understand how much of a responsibility an FFL is…Do you guys must also give out your social security number to anyone who asks for it?  How about your bank account number?

I'm sure it is a huge responsibility, but that part of the job.  My job stinks, I have some huge responsibilities, BUT I don't get to play with cool guns all day.  Personally, I'm jealous.    

Actually yes, my SS# goes out to lots of folks, INCLUDING every dealer I ever buy a gun from.  I doubt they would do anything evil with the info, but they could.  I don't like giving out my personal info, but that's the way it works.  Bank account?  Well anyone I have ever written a check to now has my bank account number.

I respect your desire to cover your butt, but you guys are making it sound like you're giving out launch codes for your nuclear arsenal or nudie pics of your wife...

Quoted: The point is, it’s the FFL ass in the breeze, he can do whatever he wishes with his license, but a prudent FFL will only give copies of his FFL to other FFL holders.

Fair enough.  If you go through the trouble of getting an FFL, you should be able to choose how you use it.

Before this thread, I didn't realize that the private seller did NOT need a copy of the license in order to ship out of state.  This whole new fangled EZ Check thing is too high tech for simple ol' me...  

Quoted: Quoted: Only a fool would send a signed copy of his FFL to some stranger who is NOT an FFL holder...all you need is that signed copy of the FFL and money and you can walk away with a gun from any dealer anyplace in the USA...They will log out the gun to the FFL provided and will not do any multi-gun purchase forms (as they would for a private party)...the potential for disaster and liability is huge... Thats wrong. If you are buying on an FFL, first you have to show ID that matches the FFL, and second, you have to ship to the address on the FFL. You just can't walk into a gun store with a signed copy of an FFL and buy a gun and walk out with it. I've never been refused by a dealer for not providing a return FFL, or refused when I ask for a signed copy of a local FFL when buying a gun. They hand it over, I mail it and then my gun is delivered. Every transfer I've ever done was this way, and I've bought and sold alot of guns.

No offense intended BB but I'd bet Cav Arms has bought and sold way more  than you have ever seen

Quoted: www.dpmsinc.com/Products/bl-m4.jpg www.dpmsinc.com/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=BL-11-AP4  $189 I'm just trying to help but it seems you could get this gun built for less.

I bought one of three LE6920HB's that prideboss offered up for sale last Sunday. Mine came today.

I just pulled the lower handguard off and my barrel looks nothing like the heavy barrel pictured above. Mine is the same thickness all the way from the ending of the taper at the barrel nut to the front sight.  

It does not step down, so I'd say Colt really did offer a HB version.

FWIW, the label on the end of the box is marked LE6920, but "HB" was written in by hand. I don't think Colt went through the effort of printing up a new label for the HB.

Scott