6.8 Remington caliber, .... Opinions?



I haven't been around AR-15.com lately, so I hope this topic hasn't been beaten to death. But I just found out about the new 6.8 Remington caliber.

The U.S. special forces in Afghanistan requested a harder hitting, more lethal round to fight terrorists with.  (a round that can work in the M4)  And it is being used (and tested) there now.

It is possible that this round may be adopted by our armed forces.  They have been talking for years about replacing the .223 with something new.

I am very excited about this round. I think it may be what we have been wanting for years. A round that will allow high capacity in mags and the ability to carry a lot of it, and yet be very lethal.  I know it is what I have been waiting for.   (for years)  

Imagine, a round you can fire out of your AR that has the lethality of a 308 at ranges out to 300 yards with recoil not much more than the 223.

Barret is currently making AR uppers for it. (to expensive for now)  And Robinson Arms is making a new rifle (Xcr folder) in this cartridge as well.  (though untested in battle as yet I think)  

I bet a lot of new rifles will be coming out in this caliber.

I think we shall soon see all of the manufacturers making uppers in this round for AR lowers.  (DPMS, Bushmaster, etc)

To use this round all you need is a barreled upper receiver with the proper bolt, and magazines to fit it and you're there.

I think this is the most important thing to happen to the military rifle industry (including semi-auto rifles) in years.  

And with the AWB sunset, we will be able to get some real nice rifles for it. (imagine an M4, HK or FAL in this caliber)

I can't wait to get mine.

What do you guys think?



Zen




"This is my rifle, there are many like it, but this one is mine"  

skeptical. could be neat-o, though.

If you can afford ammo, definitely buy one, it performs a lot better.

I hear that guys in Iraq are running around with 15-20 mags strapped on, so the increased weight issue is not trivial.

If they do go to the XM-8 I think it would just about be required to use the 6.8 SPC. The most common variant has only a 12.5" barrel, which isn't enough to get the 5.56 up to speed.

6.8SPC is the shit. I'd love to have an M4 configured for it...

Old news.  It's been hashed out over in the AR-15 forums here extensively.  There is a thread tacked here with a link to the 6.8SPC/AR15 FAQ and reload data.

-z

Quoted: Old news.  It's been hashed out over in the AR-15 forums here extensively.  There is a thread tacked here with a link to the 6.8SPC/AR15 FAQ and reload data. -z

Thanks for the link Zak.  Very useful.  




Zen





"This is my rifle, there are many like it, but this one is mine"

BTW, I've been shooting mine since March.  Recoil is more than 5.56, but not even close to 308 (AR10) - WAY LESS.  A braked 6.8 is comparable to a plain muzzle 16" 5.56 shooting hot ammo.

[ link to larger image ]

boing!

Quoted: I haven't been around AR-15.com lately, so I hope this topic hasn't been beaten to death. But I just found out about the new 6.8 Remington caliber. Zen

yeah, been beaten to death:

just a small sample
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=189042
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=201070
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=199916
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=197356
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=197565
6.8 spc FAQ

Quoted: img.photobucket.com/albums/v133/macandy/68spc-1.jpg boing!

Cool photo.


Zen




"This is my rifle, there are many like it, but this one is mine"  

Quoted: img.photobucket.com/albums/v133/macandy/68spc-1.jpg boing!

Uh... bling!

Quoted: 6.8 Remington caliber, .... Opinions?

Vaporware.

Quoted: Quoted: 6.8 Remington caliber, .... Opinions? Vaporware.

I have invested heavily in this caliber and I have to agree.  Went out and build an upper, and it sits in my safe.  Basically I threw 300 bucks out the window on a boat anchor.  I couldn't GIVE that upper away now.

For all you guys above that are salivating over it:  Mine is for sale (upper only).  A3 flat top, Model 1 barrel and bolt, YHM free float forend, flip-up front sight on gas block, ARMS #40 in back.

C_M

Carbine_Man,

Why aren't you shoot it?

[ link to larger image ]

What else do you need?

-z

Quoted: 6.8 Remington caliber, .... Opinions? I haven't been around AR-15.com lately, so I hope this topic hasn't been beaten to death. But I just found out about the new 6.8 Remington caliber. The U.S. special forces in Afghanistan requested a harder hitting, more lethal round to fight terrorists with.  (a round that can work in the M4)  And it is being used (and tested) there now. It is possible that this round may be adopted by our armed forces.  They have been talking for years about replacing the .223 with something new. Due to NATO supply issues, it is for-sure NOT going to be adopted en-masse by the US military. The round is referred to as 6.8 SPC, or 'special purpose cartridge', and it will stay that way for the same reason that .45ACP is no longer a mass issue cartridge - no one else in the world uses it as such (and hence it is only employed by SOCOM units here. 6.8 will end up the same way). I am very excited about this round. I think it may be what we have been wanting for years. A round that will allow high capacity in mags and the ability to carry a lot of it, and yet be very lethal.  I know it is what I have been waiting for.   (for years)  77gr OTM 5.56mm does that as well, and you can carry MORE of it, and fire it in guns that will also fire M855 if that's all that's available Imagine, a round you can fire out of your AR that has the lethality of a 308 at ranges out to 300 yards with recoil not much more than the 223. 77gr OTM Barret is currently making AR uppers for it. (to expensive for now)  And Robinson Arms is making a new rifle (Xcr folder) in this cartridge as well.  (though untested in battle as yet I think) All RobArms products are 'untested', except the AK variants by nature of being AKs. They are strictly a civillian manufacturer I bet a lot of new rifles will be coming out in this caliber. I think we shall soon see all of the manufacturers making uppers in this round for AR lowers.  (DPMS, Bushmaster, etc) Possible, I'd bank on Bushmaster & Olympic (since Oly makes an upper in about every caliber that will fit in an AR magwell. The only problem is that since it will not be adopted by the military, it will see limited ammo production & availability To use this round all you need is a barreled upper receiver with the proper bolt, and magazines to fit it and you're there. I think this is the most important thing to happen to the military rifle industry (including semi-auto rifles) in years.   And with the AWB sunset, we will be able to get some real nice rifles for it. (imagine an M4, HK or FAL in this caliber) The AWB sunset does not affect HK or FN products. 89 Import Ban is still in effect... I can't wait to get mine. What do you guys think? Zen "This is my rifle, there are many like it, but this one is mine"

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: 6.8 Remington caliber, .... Opinions? Vaporware. I have invested heavily in this caliber and I have to agree.  Went out and build an upper, and it sits in my safe.  Basically I threw 300 bucks out the window on a boat anchor.  I couldn't GIVE that upper away now. For all you guys above that are salivating over it:  Mine is for sale (upper only).  A3 flat top, Model 1 barrel and bolt, YHM free float forend, flip-up front sight on gas block, ARMS #40 in back. C_M

Okay, tell me how much?

ETA: The 6.5 Grendal spanks the 6.8 across the board...

Zen,

If you want to talk to the someone who knows the 6.8 call www.compasslake.com/

Quoted: Carbine_Man, Why aren't you shoot it? www.demigod.org/~zak/DigiCam/6.8SPC/small/136_3606_img.jpg [ link to larger image ] What else do you need? -z

Hi Zak, I've been following your reloading progress for a while.

I made a decision a long time ago to drop reloading.  I don't want to spend my time doing that, I'd rather be shooting.

There is NO loaded ammo for it unless you have some kind of connections.

It is vaporware, and Remington does nothing to help.  I have had it with waiting for ammo that may never arrive.

Here are some ballistics for 5.56, .308, 6.8SPC and 6.5 Grendel:
www.65grendel.com/graphics/grendelballistics.pdf
The SPC has ballistics virtually identical to the 5.56 OTM.  As far as wounding potential, it has done very well in gelatin.  The Grendel has great ballistics, but so far has not done as well in gelatin.  At this point, the Grendel is a proprietary round so there will not be as much competition between suppliers.

There was a thread saying that the SPC has been canned by the military, but others contradicted this.

Carbine-Man,

At the price of new 6.8SPC ammo, or match 308 (for my AR10), I wouldn't be shooting either very much.  I can load both  for about $200-300/case instead of $600/case.

-z

Carbine_Man... yes I am serious, let me know

I looked at the 6.8 with a great deal of interest. A few guys have jumped in an been at the leading edge with reloading ammo. That's great and they have something new and different. I salute their determination and ingenuity. To me unless the 6.8 becomes adopted as a standard by the military it will be just a curiosity.

Quoted: Quoted: 6.8 Remington caliber, .... Opinions? I haven't been around AR-15.com lately, so I hope this topic hasn't been beaten to death. But I just found out about the new 6.8 Remington caliber. The U.S. special forces in Afghanistan requested a harder hitting, more lethal round to fight terrorists with.  (a round that can work in the M4)  And it is being used (and tested) there now. It is possible that this round may be adopted by our armed forces.  They have been talking for years about replacing the .223 with something new. Due to NATO supply issues, it is for-sure NOT going to be adopted en-masse by the US military. The round is referred to as 6.8 SPC, or 'special purpose cartridge', and it will stay that way for the same reason that .45ACP is no longer a mass issue cartridge - no one else in the world uses it as such (and hence it is only employed by SOCOM units here. 6.8 will end up the same way).  Quite the contrary, everything I have read is that the military is still up in the air about adopting it. They do have long term plans to change calibers at some point. And the "special purpose cartridge" designtion was probably not the militarys idea I am very excited about this round. I think it may be what we have been wanting for years. A round that will allow high capacity in mags and the ability to carry a lot of it, and yet be very lethal.  I know it is what I have been waiting for.   (for years)  77gr OTM 5.56mm does that as well, and you can carry MORE of it, and fire it in guns that will also fire M855 if that's all that's availableIt is well known by soldiers that use it that this round does not have the stopping power or penitration to do the job.  Read accounts from "Black hawk down" how the guys trapped in that adobe building had AK rounds passing thru the walls to them, but their 223 rounds would not penitrate the enemys cover. The 223 has lacked power, knock down and killing power since its introduction.  And has beena failure and a sad joke on the troops who have had to use it Imagine, a round you can fire out of your AR that has the lethality of a 308 at ranges out to 300 yards with recoil not much more than the 223. 77gr OTM Barret is currently making AR uppers for it. (to expensive for now)  And Robinson Arms is making a new rifle (Xcr folder) in this cartridge as well.  (though untested in battle as yet I think) All RobArms products are 'untested', except the AK variants by nature of being AKs. They are strictly a civillian manufacturerThey are not strickly civilian manufacturers. The are making full auto models they are offering to military. And I have read that they are being used by some units of our military. I bet a lot of new rifles will be coming out in this caliber. I think we shall soon see all of the manufacturers making uppers in this round for AR lowers.  (DPMS, Bushmaster, etc) Possible, I'd bank on Bushmaster & Olympic (since Oly makes an upper in about every caliber that will fit in an AR magwell. The only problem is that since it will not be adopted by the military, it will see limited ammo production & availabilityAgain, the military has not decieded not to adopt this round.  They are testing it in afganastan right now.  Bushmaster is set up to produce the uppers in this caliber.  I think the awb being gone and allowing the large cap 6.8 mags to be sold is what will push this caliber. And even if the military does not switch to it, I don't care, because as long as the ammo got to a level that was affordable, I would switch to it. Our military has proven it's inability to do the right thing for 40 years, I won't follow their lead. To use this round all you need is a barreled upper receiver with the proper bolt, and magazines to fit it and you're there. I think this is the most important thing to happen to the military rifle industry (including semi-auto rifles) in years.   And with the AWB sunset, we will be able to get some real nice rifles for it. (imagine an M4, HK or FAL in this caliber) The AWB sunset does not affect HK or FN products. 89 Import Ban is still in effect...Hk and Fal type rifles are being made in the states in right now. Check out DS arms or the other makers who clone HK.  This has nothing to do with the 89 ban.  Furthermore HK is building a huge factory in the US.  They may begin building rifles in this caliber to be sold to the public.  HK has a great record for trying to sell post ban rifles to us, and I think they will continue that policy. Also, if the ban remains dead, you will see a golden age of semi auto military type rifles being brought to market. It has already begun by several companies.   I can't wait to get mine. What do you guys think? Zen "This is my rifle, there are many like it, but this one is mine"

Funny I should find this thread. I just ordered a custom 16" upper directly from Bushmaster yesterday.When asked if I could have them make me an upper in 6.8, I was told that as soon as ammo becomes plentiful enough, they will develope a 6.8 upper. I asked them how many rounds would they need and if I could purchase it for them to get their asses in gear. No, that wont be needed. I asked to be put on a waiting list and was told there isn't one yet. So we wait.

This round SHOULD replace the 556 NATO round as it gets the job done. The idea was to give a rifleman more ammo to carry with less weight than the 7.62 NATO. Well, this does weight slightly more but it pays it back in spades !!!

SCREW NATO, GET THE 6.8 & BRING BACK THE 45!!!

If you knew the answers already, why ask the question?
BTW, your information is old. The stuff in the red is the most up to date.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: 6.8 Remington caliber, .... Opinions? I haven't been around AR-15.com lately, so I hope this topic hasn't been beaten to death. But I just found out about the new 6.8 Remington caliber. The U.S. special forces in Afghanistan requested a harder hitting, more lethal round to fight terrorists with.  (a round that can work in the M4)  And it is being used (and tested) there now. It is possible that this round may be adopted by our armed forces.  They have been talking for years about replacing the .223 with something new. Due to NATO supply issues, it is for-sure NOT going to be adopted en-masse by the US military. The round is referred to as 6.8 SPC, or 'special purpose cartridge', and it will stay that way for the same reason that .45ACP is no longer a mass issue cartridge - no one else in the world uses it as such (and hence it is only employed by SOCOM units here. 6.8 will end up the same way).  Quite the contrary, everything I have read is that the military is still up in the air about adopting it. They do have long term plans to change calibers at some point. And the "special purpose cartridge" designtion was probably not the militarys idea I am very excited about this round. I think it may be what we have been wanting for years. A round that will allow high capacity in mags and the ability to carry a lot of it, and yet be very lethal.  I know it is what I have been waiting for.   (for years)  77gr OTM 5.56mm does that as well, and you can carry MORE of it, and fire it in guns that will also fire M855 if that's all that's availableIt is well known by soldiers that use it that this round does not have the stopping power or penitration to do the job.  Read accounts from "Black hawk down" how the guys trapped in that adobe building had AK rounds passing thru the walls to them, but their 223 rounds would not penitrate the enemys cover. The 223 has lacked power, knock down and killing power since its introduction.  And has beena failure and a sad joke on the troops who have had to use it Imagine, a round you can fire out of your AR that has the lethality of a 308 at ranges out to 300 yards with recoil not much more than the 223. 77gr OTM Barret is currently making AR uppers for it. (to expensive for now)  And Robinson Arms is making a new rifle (Xcr folder) in this cartridge as well.  (though untested in battle as yet I think) All RobArms products are 'untested', except the AK variants by nature of being AKs. They are strictly a civillian manufacturerThey are not strickly civilian manufacturers. The are making full auto models they are offering to military. And I have read that they are being used by some units of our military. I bet a lot of new rifles will be coming out in this caliber. I think we shall soon see all of the manufacturers making uppers in this round for AR lowers.  (DPMS, Bushmaster, etc) Possible, I'd bank on Bushmaster & Olympic (since Oly makes an upper in about every caliber that will fit in an AR magwell. The only problem is that since it will not be adopted by the military, it will see limited ammo production & availabilityAgain, the military has not decieded not to adopt this round.  They are testing it in afganastan right now.  Bushmaster is set up to produce the uppers in this caliber.  I think the awb being gone and allowing the large cap 6.8 mags to be sold is what will push this caliber. And even if the military does not switch to it, I don't care, because as long as the ammo got to a level that was affordable, I would switch to it. Our military has proven it's inability to do the right thing for 40 years, I won't follow their lead. To use this round all you need is a barreled upper receiver with the proper bolt, and magazines to fit it and you're there. I think this is the most important thing to happen to the military rifle industry (including semi-auto rifles) in years.   And with the AWB sunset, we will be able to get some real nice rifles for it. (imagine an M4, HK or FAL in this caliber) The AWB sunset does not affect HK or FN products. 89 Import Ban is still in effect...Hk and Fal type rifles are being made in the states in right now. Check out DS arms or the other makers who clone HK.  This has nothing to do with the 89 ban.  Furthermore HK is building a huge factory in the US.  They may begin building rifles in this caliber to be sold to the public.  HK has a great record for trying to sell post ban rifles to us, and I think they will continue that policy. Also, if the ban remains dead, you will see a golden age of semi auto military type rifles being brought to market. It has already begun by several companies.   I can't wait to get mine. What do you guys think? Zen "This is my rifle, there are many like it, but this one is mine"

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: 6.8 Remington caliber, .... Opinions? I haven't been around AR-15.com lately, so I hope this topic hasn't been beaten to death. But I just found out about the new 6.8 Remington caliber. The U.S. special forces in Afghanistan requested a harder hitting, more lethal round to fight terrorists with.  (a round that can work in the M4)  And it is being used (and tested) there now. It is possible that this round may be adopted by our armed forces.  They have been talking for years about replacing the .223 with something new. Due to NATO supply issues, it is for-sure NOT going to be adopted en-masse by the US military. The round is referred to as 6.8 SPC, or 'special purpose cartridge', and it will stay that way for the same reason that .45ACP is no longer a mass issue cartridge - no one else in the world uses it as such (and hence it is only employed by SOCOM units here. 6.8 will end up the same way).  Quite the contrary, everything I have read is that the military is still up in the air about adopting it. They do have long term plans to change calibers at some point. And the "special purpose cartridge" designtion was probably not the militarys idea I am very excited about this round. I think it may be what we have been wanting for years. A round that will allow high capacity in mags and the ability to carry a lot of it, and yet be very lethal.  I know it is what I have been waiting for.   (for years)  77gr OTM 5.56mm does that as well, and you can carry MORE of it, and fire it in guns that will also fire M855 if that's all that's availableIt is well known by soldiers that use it that this round does not have the stopping power or penitration to do the job.  Read accounts from "Black hawk down" how the guys trapped in that adobe building had AK rounds passing thru the walls to them, but their 223 rounds would not penitrate the enemys cover. The 223 has lacked power, knock down and killing power since its introduction.  And has beena failure and a sad joke on the troops who have had to use it Imagine, a round you can fire out of your AR that has the lethality of a 308 at ranges out to 300 yards with recoil not much more than the 223. 77gr OTM Barret is currently making AR uppers for it. (to expensive for now)  And Robinson Arms is making a new rifle (Xcr folder) in this cartridge as well.  (though untested in battle as yet I think) All RobArms products are 'untested', except the AK variants by nature of being AKs. They are strictly a civillian manufacturerThey are not strickly civilian manufacturers. The are making full auto models they are offering to military. And I have read that they are being used by some units of our military. I bet a lot of new rifles will be coming out in this caliber. I think we shall soon see all of the manufacturers making uppers in this round for AR lowers.  (DPMS, Bushmaster, etc) Possible, I'd bank on Bushmaster & Olympic (since Oly makes an upper in about every caliber that will fit in an AR magwell. The only problem is that since it will not be adopted by the military, it will see limited ammo production & availabilityAgain, the military has not decieded not to adopt this round.  They are testing it in afganastan right now.  Bushmaster is set up to produce the uppers in this caliber.  I think the awb being gone and allowing the large cap 6.8 mags to be sold is what will push this caliber. And even if the military does not switch to it, I don't care, because as long as the ammo got to a level that was affordable, I would switch to it. Our military has proven it's inability to do the right thing for 40 years, I won't follow their lead. To use this round all you need is a barreled upper receiver with the proper bolt, and magazines to fit it and you're there. I think this is the most important thing to happen to the military rifle industry (including semi-auto rifles) in years.   And with the AWB sunset, we will be able to get some real nice rifles for it. (imagine an M4, HK or FAL in this caliber) The AWB sunset does not affect HK or FN products. 89 Import Ban is still in effect...Hk and Fal type rifles are being made in the states in right now. Check out DS arms or the other makers who clone HK.  This has nothing to do with the 89 ban.  Furthermore HK is building a huge factory in the US.  They may begin building rifles in this caliber to be sold to the public.  HK has a great record for trying to sell post ban rifles to us, and I think they will continue that policy. Also, if the ban remains dead, you will see a golden age of semi auto military type rifles being brought to market. It has already begun by several companies.   I can't wait to get mine. What do you guys think? Zen "This is my rifle, there are many like it, but this one is mine"

Ok:

1) the SPC designation is the military's idea

2) 6.8 has been limited to SOCOM use by NATO standardization and an adverse JAG ruling....

3) Your 7.62x39 comments show a typical 'bigger is better' bias:

7.62x39 is by far the worst combat round in use today. It was abandoned by it's creators back in 1974 for a .219 caliber round (5.45x39), in an effort to produce a cartridge with performance close to the 5.56. The only countries that use 30cal assault weapons en-masse are 3rd-world bananna republics that make do with Russian or European leftovers... The one exception is China, which 'issues' everything and anything ever made (heck, they even 'modernized' the SKS with AK mag capability)...

The fact is, 5.56 outperforms 7.62x39 in EVERYTHING BUT cover penetration.

Also, the troops in Somolia were using 62gr ball, NOT 77gr OTM (Mk262). HUGE difference.

4) Mk262 provides almost IDENTICAL ballistics to 6.8SPC, and does so without the need to re-tool weapons. All you do is add a little extra elevation on the sights...

Yeah, 6.8 has more Kenetic Energy, but Mk262 has more VELOCITY, which is the critical component in fragmentation. And frag is what matters, not KE.

The big difference is that a rifle using 6.8 can't fire any other cartridge. A rifle using 77gr OTM can easily use 62 or 55gr if it's all that's available.

All of the 'problems' with .223, 99% of which are related to the mass-isue of M4s (62gr performance is far more impressive out of a M16A2), are solved by using 77gr OTM instead of 55 or 62gr...

5) If 5.56 was such a 'mistake' than how come every major power in the world scrapped their 30cal assault weapons and switched to SCHV .21 or .22 caliber designs? And how come it happened soon after Vietnam? SCHV works, we were the first to field it, and everyone of import (including the commies, who were able to see 'first hand' experience with .223 effectiveness) switched soon after...

Mk262 provides almost IDENTICAL ballistics to 6.8SPC,

Yeah, 6.8 has more Kenetic Energy, but Mk262 has more VELOCITY,

Eh, What?     If their ballistics are almost identical, their muzzle velocity is going to be almost identical.  

Mk262's muzzle velocity is somewhere between 2650 and 2850fps, depending on barrel length and lot.

6.8SPC's muzzle velocity is somewhere between 2650 and 2800fps, depending on barrel length.

The MV's are in the same range, and the BC's are in the same range.

I don't see me getting into the 6.8mm fray anytime soon. I've got too much invested in 5.56mm.

I love the idea, though.