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Posted: 9/12/2004 7:44:54 AM EDT
[#1]
Like I said earlier.
A muslim can kill a bunch of school children and truly believe that it was the infidels that killed them since they attacked the muslims sometime in the past. Many believe that killing an infidel is accualy doing them a favor. That's why they believe they are so damn peaceful. SGatr15 |
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Posted: 9/12/2004 7:45:10 AM EDT
[#2]
Isn't your title an oxymoron.
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Posted: 9/12/2004 2:41:01 PM EDT
[#3]
you guys did not read the links did you.
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Posted: 9/12/2004 2:42:17 PM EDT
[#4]
LOL |
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Posted: 9/12/2004 2:45:08 PM EDT
[#5]
They arent Muslims then.
Read their Koran. The koran specifically says anyone who isnt of their faith is a traitor and must be made a martyr (killed). It also says that if you do not you are a traitor yourself. So they arent muslims if they say that they dont beleive in violence against non muslims. Thats not what Islam is about. I read the Koran and whatnot after Sept. 11th. This is propaganda. Also note the Koran says that you are supposed to gain the trust of them, and then perform an act of being a traitor against them. They want to win over the American Public while they plan their next murder. THis is fact. But take it how you want. But I would do a little background into their religion before you pass any positive judgement onto them. I did. And I totally support our war on terrorism. |
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Posted: 9/12/2004 2:56:12 PM EDT
[#6]
i am not posting this to PROMOTE islam and frankly would care if islam disappeared tomorrow. I just thought it was an interesting site given all the commotion going on here over the last week.
For the record this group HAS gone PUBLIC with FORMAL APOLOGIES and denouncement of all terrorist acts. Might be BS, i also wonder why it took 3 years+ to do. mike |
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Posted: 9/12/2004 3:01:16 PM EDT
[#7]
Since you're such an expert on the Koran, would you mind pointing that particular passage or verse out to me. (Don't bother to post the usual cut-and-paste bullshit from other sites - those are tiresome, and I've yet to see one that actually quotes a verse saying that all non-muslims must categorically be killed.) No, since YOU make such a big deal of YOUR expertise in the Koran, please cite the particular verses that says that ANYONE who is not a muslim MUST BE KILLED. |
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Posted: 9/12/2004 3:04:53 PM EDT
[#8]
Sure. Ill post it here. It was a helleva long read.
"9.2] So go about in the land for four months and know that you cannot weaken Allah and that Allah will bring disgrace to the unbelievers." "[9.3] And an announcement from Allah and His Apostle to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah and His Apostle are free from liability to the idolaters; therefore if you repent, it will be better for you, and if you turn back, then know that you will not weaken Allah; and announce painful punishment to those who disbelieve." "[9.5] So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful." "[9.9] They have taken a small price for the communications of Allah, so they turn away from His way; surely evil is it that they do." It goes on and on and on and on and on. About a thousand different passages about killing us, earning our trust and then backstabbing us, raping women etc. [9.12] And if they break their oaths after their agreement and (openly) revile your religion, then fight the leaders of unbelief-- surely their oaths are nothing-- so that they may desist." KORAN TRANSLATED INTO ENGLISH BASICALLY THE WHOLE THING IS ABOUT KILLING AND THE IMPORTANCE OF THEIR FAITH |
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Posted: 9/12/2004 3:12:02 PM EDT
[#9]
I doubt that you read it, because the Koran says no such thing. (edited to add - I just saw your posts, and it's the usual bullshit - NOTHING in there says to KILL ALL NON-MUSLIMS. Try again, because none of those passages even come close  )The Koran says LOTS of other creepy stuff, and it's all about subjugating and conquering other lands and converting people. And it's totally in favor of killing people for all sorts of reasons - like they "betrayed your" or they wronged you at some point in the past, or they are "infidels" (note - not Christans or Jews, who are not considered "infidel"). The Koran is a creepy book for a creepy and dangerous religion - but it does NOT say that all non-muslims should be killed. I agree that Islam is a huge threat - but we do not combat it with lies and half-truths. |
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Posted: 9/12/2004 3:17:18 PM EDT
[#10]
personal attacks removed
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Posted: 9/12/2004 3:17:34 PM EDT
[#11]
Oh what a surprise - quotes JUST LIKE the ones that everyone else posts. What a coincidence that the people who all claim to "have read the Koran" end up posting from this same section of the Koran. It's particularly idiotic, because that passage in the Koran refers to IDOLATORS - not ALL NON-MUSLIMS (you know who idolators are, right? those are the ones referred to in the 2nd COMMANDEMENT, in which God threatens people who worship idols.) Idolators are a VERY different category from Christians and Jews. A passage that refers to killing idolators is not anywhere near commanding muslims to "kill all non-muslims" In addition, that entire passage (not jsut your quotes) also specifically refers to idolators who do not have treaties with the muslims. Idolators who honor treaties with muslims and do not aid the enemies of the muslims also are not covered by what you quoted. So this quote - scary and psychotic as it seems when viewed out of context - provides NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that the Koran commands mulisms to "kill all non-muslims" |
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Posted: 9/12/2004 3:19:06 PM EDT
[#12]
personal attacks removed
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Posted: 9/12/2004 3:25:48 PM EDT
[#13]
I fucking gave you the link to the fucking koran. READ IT. I stopped fucking quoting passages in the very beginning of the koran becuase there are too many.
And there is no 2nd commandment in the goddamn Koran. Idolaters to them are specifically defined as non beleivers. Also note. That America is defined as an idolater becuase we support Israel (The jews). So fucking come again. Traitors. GO live in the sand then. |
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Posted: 9/12/2004 3:27:48 PM EDT
[#14]
DK_Prof deserves an PWNED pic of his own. Talk about a smack down!
 It is very apparent you know what you're talking about. |
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Posted: 9/12/2004 3:27:56 PM EDT
[#15]
You guys do realize that not all members of all religeons adhere to their holy book as strictly as others...
How many Christians on this board have ever had sex with someone who wasn't your spouse at the time of the act? How many Jews practice animal sacrifice, or punish disobedient sons with stoning? The fact is, weather you like it or not, most Muslims ARE non-violent. Makes it a little harder to villify the entire religeon for the actions of a few lunatics... While they're rather misguided as to who to worship, that is as far as it goes... God will judge them foir that, as it is an offense against Him, not us. As for the ones who are TERRORISTS or LEADERS WHO SUPPORT TERROR, well, those guys need to die - but only them, not the rest... |
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Posted: 9/12/2004 3:28:02 PM EDT
[#16]
persoanl attacks removed
And your an immigrated American. Your point? I have read the entire Koran. Every single line. And it gets more grim the farther you read. And I just quoted something from the very beginning of it and did not even go into depth. Nor have I time to entertain everyone's little concern in this thread. The koran is not that big. You can read it an an hour. Im here waiting for your apology when you finish it. Until you read the Koran please SHUT THE FUCK UP. |
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Posted: 9/12/2004 3:30:37 PM EDT
[#17]
Also note that the bible does say that you would be forgiven if you do not follow every little hting in the bible. The koran does not. And any idiot who knows anything about the koran and the middle east, is that your likely to get throwin in prison or raped or shot if you break one of their holy traditions. Again another know nothing american. |
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Posted: 9/12/2004 3:31:19 PM EDT
[#18]
Nice try 23... A word of advice: Don't argue with the professors & lawyers on this board, a guy like you wil LOSE... Go troll somewhere else, 
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Posted: 9/12/2004 3:31:19 PM EDT
[#19]
No, you have not read the Koran, and everyone here knows it because you illustrated it yourself, genius! You did so by quoting a completely unrelated verse, that says NOTHING of the things that you claimed it did. ... and which just HAPPENS to be the same verses that everyone else who hasn't read the Koran cuts and pastes from the internet. Unlike you, I HAVE in fact read the Koran, so none of your bullshit impresses me. But if you want to keep acting like the petulant child, knock yourself out. Everyone is already laughing at you. 
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Posted: 9/12/2004 3:34:51 PM EDT
[#20]
Hey look everyone - the predictable personal attack of the person who has been proven wrong and has no argument. Nice 
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Posted: 9/12/2004 3:35:23 PM EDT
[#21]
enough with the personal attacks.
This is my thread. if you want to argue take it to email. If it continues i will ask staff to get involved and solve this. I highly suggest ALL attacks be edited out of this thread. mike |
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Posted: 9/12/2004 3:37:17 PM EDT
[#22]
ETA - sorry about the threadjack, but depsite my personal dislike for the institution of Islam, I have this thing about "facts" |
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Posted: 9/12/2004 3:46:15 PM EDT
[#23]
"104.1] Woe to every slanderer, defamer,
[104.2] Who amasses wealth and considers it a provision (against mishap); [104.3] He thinks that his wealth will make him immortal. [104.4] Nay! he shall most certainly be hurled into the crushing disaster, [104.5] And what will make you realize what the crushing disaster is? [104.6] It is the fire kindled by Allah, [104.7] Which rises above the hearts. [104.8] Surely it shall be closed over upon them, [104.9] In extended columns." "98.6] Surely those who disbelieve from among the followers of the Book and the polytheists shall be in the fire of hell, abiding therein; they are the worst of men." "[1.1] All praise is due to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds. [1.2] The Beneficent, the Merciful. [1.3] Master of the Day of Judgment. [1.4] Thee do we serve and Thee do we beseech for help. [1.5] Keep us on the right path. [1.6] The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray." "[2.6] Surely those who disbelieve, it being alike to them whether you warn them, or do not warn them, will not believe. [2.7] Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing and there is a covering over their eyes, and there is a great punishment for them." "[2.9] They desire to deceive Allah and those who believe, and they deceive only themselves and they do not perceive." "[2.10] There is a disease in their hearts, so Allah added to their disease and they shall have a painful chastisement because they lied." "[2.13] And when it is said to them: Believe as the people believe they say: Shall we believe as the fools believe? Now surely they themselves are the fools, but they do not know. [2.14] And when they meet those who believe, they say: We believe; and when they are alone with their Shaitans, they say: Surely we are with you, we were only mocking. [2.15] Allah shall pay them back their mockery, and He leaves them alone in their inordinacy, blindly wandering on." goes on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on. fucking read it you fucking terrorist. |
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Posted: 9/12/2004 3:46:42 PM EDT
[#24]
MUST...NOT...SAY...IT...WILL...GET...BANNED...
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Posted: 9/12/2004 3:48:24 PM EDT
[#25]
SOMETHING YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT. YOU CANT EVEN READ A 24 page document, in which most of the pages only have a few passages on them. And once you do read it, you cant ocmprehend it. I would bet your an arab anyways. |
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Posted: 9/12/2004 3:48:52 PM EDT
[#26]
HAAAHAHAHAHA! What an oxymoron!
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Posted: 9/12/2004 3:50:43 PM EDT
[#27]
RITUAL,
check your IM ASAP. this is the LAST warning. Next offense i am asking for an account lock. mike |
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Posted: 9/12/2004 3:52:59 PM EDT
[#28]
BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAA! Staff is likely to ignore you, then lock your own thread! 
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Posted: 9/12/2004 3:54:12 PM EDT
[#29]
I'll ignore the personal attack and ASK YOU AGAIN where it says that muslims must kill all non-muslims??I don't see that anywhere in any of the stuff you've posted. Religions saying that non-believers go to hell is NOT really the same as commanding its followers to kill all non-believers, mmkay. |
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Posted: 9/12/2004 3:55:59 PM EDT
[#30]
If need be i will lock it myself. This was put up to foster discussion NOT a pissfest. Discuss rationally all you want. Calling others a terrorist and traitor is not going to be tolerated from either side. mike |
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Posted: 9/12/2004 3:56:38 PM EDT
[#31]
I'm missing something here. Are you saying that the Koran is 24 pages long??? That's very strange, because my copy has over 400 pages. Or are you talking about some other document. Maybe this is the source of our disagreement. Perhaps you read something you THOUGHT was the Koran, but it really wasnt? |
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Posted: 9/12/2004 3:57:51 PM EDT
[#32]
O M G.
Read the passages I first posted. Then put it together with my latest passages. It makes one big terrorist supporting fanatical religious cult. But then again, why dont you post your education. What you do for a dayjob. And then maybe we can all tell you to stfu and leave it to people who have a clue. If the Koran didnt say all of these things, you would not have AL Quada and everyone fighting on behalf of Allah now would you? They would be fighting for their country not their religion. Your so blind. And your silently obfuscating people into beleiving in a murdering religion and terrorists. |
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Posted: 9/12/2004 3:59:15 PM EDT
[#33]
It has 114 sections. So 114 pages in internet form. You can read the KOran here Koran |
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Posted: 9/12/2004 4:01:34 PM EDT
[#34]
I not only read the passages you first quoted, but PROVED that they didn't say anything like you claimed they said.
Who is "we"? Do you have a mouse in your pocket? It would seem that in THIS discussion, the people with a "clue" are the ones who have ACTUALLY read the Koran - and you do not appear to be one of them.
All religions have the potential to foster extremism, and Islam more than most. The 9/11 attacks CLEARLY violated central tenets of the Koran, including the killing of innocent Muslims.
What? Is that even English? |
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Posted: 9/12/2004 4:02:45 PM EDT
[#35]
So why did you say it had 24 pages? Sheesh, get your story straight, why don't you. Again - unlike you - I've already read the Koran. And I don't need an on-line copy, because I have a copy at my house. |
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Posted: 9/12/2004 4:07:14 PM EDT
[#36]
No you did not prove what I said was wrong in the first passages. "We" being the smart people. Wrong. The koran makes them as martyr's. The innocent Muslims that is. Yes it is American English. Americans dont speak "english" we speak a dialect of it. BUt your right I should of said terrorism instead of terrorists. |
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Posted: 9/12/2004 4:09:17 PM EDT
[#37]
You obviosly havent read it. The 24 pages was sarcasm in being that the koran is not that long. It was an exaggeration. Comapre it to the christian holy bible which is over 500 pages. The koran is quite small comapred to most holy books. |
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Posted: 9/12/2004 4:12:34 PM EDT
[#38]
Look - it's obvious that you don't know what the hell you are talking bout, and I don't have time to school you. I pointed out how your original quotes do not in any way refer to muslims being required to "kill all non-musllims" which was the original nonsense that you claimed. Nothing you've posted so far has provided ANY evidence that the Koran commands muslims to kill all non-muslims. It's a waste of my time to argue with someone who has no argument, and just keeps making ridiculous and unsubstantiated claims. If you HAD read the Koran, we could perhaps have a meaningful discussion about some of these passages, but your quotes make it obvious that you have NO IDEA of the context of the passages you are quoting from. All that said, I really don't see any value in continuing this conversation with you. If you ever actually decide to inform yourself about the things your prattling about - then perhaps we can have a useful discussion. plus - my chinese food just arrived, and that's really much more important than trying to educate the uneducated 
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Posted: 9/12/2004 4:13:43 PM EDT
[#39]
Man, this thread is seriously in need of some intelligence.
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Posted: 9/12/2004 4:15:11 PM EDT
[#40]
Hey DK, if you have another set of quotes...post them, or shut the fuck up! Here's another cut and paste job for you. Like I said, if you have an alternative Koran, by all means post it. And tell us how enlightened you are now that you are a student of Islam. "Slay them wherever you find them...Idolatry is worse than carnage...Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme." (Surah 2:190-) "Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it." (Surah 2:216) "Men are tempted [in this life] by the lure of women...far better is the return of God. Say: 'Shall I tell you of better things than these, with which the righteous shall be rewarded by their Lord? Theirs shall be gardens watered by running streams, where they shall dwell for ever: wives of perfect chastity..." (Surah 3:14, 15) "The only true faith in God's sight is Islam." (Surah 3:19) "Believers, do not make friends with any but your own people...They desire nothing but your ruin....You believe in the entire Book...When they meet you they say: 'We, too, are believers.' But when alone, they bite their finger-tips with rage." (Surah 3:118, 119) "If you should die or be slain in the cause of God, His forgiveness and His mercy would surely be better than all the riches..." (Surah 3:156-) "To those that declare: 'God has commanded us to believe no apostle unless he brings down fire to consume an offering,' say: 'Other apostles before me [Muhammad] have come to you with veritable signs and worked the miracle you asked for...If they reject you [Muhammad], other apostles have been rejected before you..." (Surah 3:183-) "If you wish to replace a wife with another, do not take from her the dowry you have given her..." (Surah 4:20) "Forbidden to you are...married women, except those you own as slaves." (Surah 4:20-, 24-) "Believers, do not approach your prayers when you are drunk, but wait till you can grasp the meaning of your words..." (Surah 4:43) "Seek out your enemies relentlessly." (Surah 4:103-) "Try as you may, you cannot treat all your wives impartially." (Surah 4:126-) "The Jews and Christians say: 'We are the children of God and His loved ones.' Say: 'Why then does He punish you for your sins?" (Surah 5:18) "Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51) "The God will say: 'Jesus, son of Mary, did you ever say to mankind 'Worship me and my mother as gods besides God?' 'Glory to You, 'he will answer, 'how could I ever say that to which I have no right?" (Surah 5:114-) "Believers, when you encounter the infidels on the march, do not turn your backs to them in flight. If anyone on that day turns his back to them, except it be for tactical reasons...he shall incur the wrath of God and Hell shall be his home..." (Surah 8:12-) "Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme." (Surah 8:36-) "If you fear treachery from any of your allies, you may fairly retaliate by breaking off your treaty with them." (Surah 8:51-) "...make war on the leaders of unbelief...Make war on them: God will chastise them at your hands and humble them. He will grant you victory over them..." (Surah 9:12-) "It ill becomes the idolaters [non-Muslims] to visit the mosques of God..." (Surah 9:17) "Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." (Surah 9:27-) "It is He who has sent forth His apostle with guidance and the true Faith [Islam] to make it triumphant over all religions, however much the idolaters [non-Muslims] may dislike it." (Surah 9:31-) "If you do not fight, He will punish you sternly, and replace you by other men." (Surah 9:37-) "Prophet make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home." (Surah 9:73) "Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-) "Say: 'Praise be to God who has never begotten a son; who has no partner in His Kingdom..." (Surah 17:111) "'How shall I bear a child,' she [Mary] answered, 'when I am a virgin...?' 'Such is the will of the Lord,' he replied. 'That is no difficult thing for Him...God forbid that He [God[ Himself should beget a son!...Those who say: 'The Lord of Mercy has begotten a son,' preach a monstrous falsehood..." (Surah 19:12-, 29-, 88) "Fight for the cause of God with the devotion due to Him...He has given you the name of Muslims..." (Surah 22:78-) "Blessed are the believers...who restrain their carnal desires (except with their wives and slave-girls, for these are lawful to them)...These are the heirs of Paradise..." (Surah 23:1-5-) "You shall not force your slave-girls into prostitution in order that you make money, if they wish to preserve their chastity." (Surah 24:33-) "As for the faithful who do good works and believe what is revealed to Muhammad...He will forgive them their sins..." (Surah 47:1) "Muhammad is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." (Surah 48:29) "Shall the reward of goodness be anything but good?...Dark-eyed virgins sheltered in their tents...They shall recline on green cushions and fine carpets...Blessed be the name of your Lord..." (Surah 55:52-66-) |
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Posted: 9/12/2004 4:16:44 PM EDT
[#41]
Owned.
Just ignore prof. He is proven incompetent. |
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Posted: 9/12/2004 5:09:23 PM EDT
[#42]
What the fuck are you talking about "if I have another set of quotes...poste them"???? I'm not claiming that the Koran SAYS something particular, I am pointing out what it DOES NOT say. How the hell can I provide quotes from the Koran to prove what is NOT in there??? That's logically impossible. Let me be clear again - THE KORAN DOES NOT COMMAND MUSLIMS TO KILL ALL NON-MUSLIMS That is ALL I am saying !!!! Why do people have such a fucking hard time understanding that??? None of the things that you posted show that the Koran commands Muslims to kill all non-muslims. Jesus Christ - I am making a very simple claim. I am saying that the Koran DOES NOT command muslims to kill all non-muslims. I get called names - but NOBODY actually provides any quotes from the Koran that illustrate how muslims are commanded to kill all non-muslims. Does anyone even fucking speak English any longer. I am NOT saying there's anything GOOD about Islam. I am NOT saying Islam is NOT a threat. I am NOT saying that ISLAM isn't despicable in many things it represents. I am saying that the Koran does NOT command muslims to kill all non-muslims. Did ANY of your quotes show where the Koran commands that? No. So why did you post them? We can AGREE all fucking day about all the things wrong with Islam. You and I - even even that halfwit, Ritual - probably agree on a lot of thing. But is is FACTUALLY INACCURATE to say that the Koran commands all muslims to kill all non-muslims. It's fucking amazing to me that - after watching Feinstein and all the other assholes try to convince people to believe their viewpoint on the AWB by LYING TO PEOPLE about what the AWB really says - to see people who have no problem doing the exact same thing when it serves their purposes. There's enough WRONG and despicable about the Koran without needing to LIE about what it says. Sheesh - do ya'll really think that we HELP our fight against Islam by LYING to people???
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Posted: 9/12/2004 5:12:15 PM EDT
[#43]
I'll argue with people like ilikelegs, whom I respect - but you've shown yourself to have no clue what you're talking about. Only person here who got owned was you - and you did it all by yourself by demonstrating your ignorance to everyone. |
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Posted: 9/12/2004 5:24:48 PM EDT
[#44]
 |
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Posted: 9/12/2004 5:29:40 PM EDT
[#45]
i should probably stay out of this,but....as far as dkprof's claim about a command to kill all non-muslims,i have read nothing in this thread that compels me to believe he is wrong.i have never read the koran,so if its in there someone post it.otherwise you will continue to lose this debate.as far as i can tell,dkprof is right.just my 2 cents.
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Posted: 9/12/2004 5:30:56 PM EDT
[#46]
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Posted: 9/12/2004 5:37:25 PM EDT
[#47]
Watch what you say. That crossed the line. |
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Posted: 9/12/2004 5:38:01 PM EDT
[#48]
You read Arabic? |
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Posted: 9/12/2004 5:39:44 PM EDT
[#49]
Read the first two links within your posted link, and the statements contradict each other to the view of a Westerner. The other link unfortunately are in Arabic - I don't read Arabic. |
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Posted: 9/12/2004 5:43:17 PM EDT
[#50]
...but it is Human Nature... |
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Nice try. Prof =