Graduated a while back, and despite getting booted out of ROTC due to having a lot of little things that would require waivers I still want to serve my country.

Im pretty sure the CIA is right up my alley, but  I'm also considering the FBI, and Secret SErvice.

Just wanna try and get some perspective from ARFCOM as I'm not really sure how to proceed.

I have a BS in Business Management (Which is something they look for Im told), 3 years of ROTC experience (Was an ok Cadet in the classroom but my physical scores are kinda low, I had 2 back surgeries while I was in and was recovering as I was in).

I don't think I should even list my previous work experience, as its only pushing carts at the local food store and hocing liqour at the local liqour store.

I'm currently waiting on a letter of recommendation from a Lt. Col who was real great to me while I was in ROTC, I think thats the only real advantage I have going in.

I'd like to do field work, the kind of stuff they're talking about when you hear the news say "The Marines and CIA are on the ground pursuing such and such." I'm a little ashamed to admit that I'm drawn to the excitement afforded by being on the ground with the military working to help make the country safer. Maybe I wanna be a cowboy, I don't know if thats the type of attitude the CIA tolerates or not... Overall I just wanna serve.

I've been a straight shooter for my entire life, I'm not concerned about passing the background check myself... but  my parents are naturalized citizens from a former eastern block country (Poland).

Aside from the occassional warez site in my browser history, I've got nothing interesting to disqaulify me. I am concerned about my parents though, I've heard that they disqaulify you if your not at least 4th or 5th generation. On the upside I speak a smattering of Polish, but I don't think being conversant in an allied countries tongue is something theyre looking for.

How are your grades?  They look for at least a 3.0 average in college.

Please refer to it as "The Agency" or "The Company"....

You shouldn't have  a problem, from what I understand, most of the CIA folks spend a lot of time reading, newspapers etc, and they don't do all that much black bag stuff. Can you understand and speak a little Polish, I bet that would be a plus. I bet if they need it they will send you to language school. Good luck.

I know a guy who was a CIA employee (for real). He was a superstud math whiz and became a statistician for them. He was able to travel, play with all kinds of cool toys, brief the President and various members of Congress. No spying, no games of intrigue, and definitely not James Bond (who would have been the WORST CIA case officer EVER).

They invented Ebola and AIDS to kill all the gays and blacks. Responsible for thousands of deaths in order to protect American interests and set up puppet dictators.. Um... Have their hands up Bush's ass..

Hang on while I try to remember the other nonsense that my Michael Moore-loving asshat history teacher claimed...

Don't think these guys do to much newspaper reading.  

Quoted: Graduated a while back, and despite getting booted out of ROTC due to having a lot of little things that would require waivers I still want to serve my country. Im pretty sure the CIA is right up my alley, but  I'm also considering the FBI, and Secret SErvice. Just wanna try and get some perspective from ARFCOM as I'm not really sure how to proceed. I have a BS in Business Management (Which is something they look for Im told), 3 years of ROTC experience (Was an ok Cadet in the classroom but my physical scores are kinda low, I had 2 back surgeries while I was in and was recovering as I was in). I don't think I should even list my previous work experience, as its only pushing carts at the local food store and hocing liqour at the local liqour store. I'm currently waiting on a letter of recommendation from a Lt. Col who was real great to me while I was in ROTC, I think thats the only real advantage I have going in. I'd like to do field work, the kind of stuff they're talking about when you hear the news say "The Marines and CIA are on the ground pursuing such and such." I'm a little ashamed to admit that I'm drawn to the excitement afforded by being on the ground with the military working to help make the country safer. Maybe I wanna be a cowboy, I don't know if thats the type of attitude the CIA tolerates or not... Overall I just wanna serve. I've been a straight shooter for my entire life, I'm not concerned about passing the background check myself... but  my parents are naturalized citizens from a former eastern block country (Poland). Aside from the occassional warez site in my browser history, I've got nothing interesting to disqaulify me. I am concerned about my parents though, I've heard that they disqaulify you if your not at least 4th or 5th generation. On the upside I speak a smattering of Polish, but I don't think being conversant in an allied countries tongue is something theyre looking for.

So tell us what sets you apart from every other smart young kid?  speak arabic?  you an operator?  You have to work in the trenches first.  Everyone wants to be rambo, but nobody wants to fight a war.

They tried recruiting my brother in law when he was in school. Joined the Marines instead as a interrogator. His dad was OSS.

I'm actually looking at  the Professional Trainee program, it looks like a good way to get the skills I would need to move into operations.

My Grades are pretty good, I graduated with a 3.0 Overall and a 3.5 or so in my Major. I'm conversant in Polish, I could probably be fluent in 3 months if I studied it.

One thing they say they look for is the constantly searching for information bit, Im always online here at Freerepublic, at DU and a lot of other politically charged sites just reading the articles.

Ultimately I dont wanna be an analyst I wanna actually hit the ground with the big boys and do the dangerous work like whats doing in Iraq and Afghanistan right now, searching for physical trails and the like. I understand that I'm probably not going to be doing that right away, If I gotta work a desk to get to that point thats Ok with me.

If I can get them to consider me I think I'll do fine,  Its just not getting dismissed out of hand thats the tricky part.

I'm debating whether to apply for the Professional Trainee Program or the Operations Officer Position.

As far as what sets me apart...

I am genuinely grateful for what this country has given me, my dad came here with a suitcase and he did real well... the American dream is a real and tangible thing to me. I believe in it and I believe in my country,  I think that its worth protecting. Like all good things it needs to be defended, I don't want to twiddle my thumbs while better men then me are sacrificing and bleeding  for it. Ultimately all I wanna do is my fair share.

good luck!

news say "The Marines and CIA are on the ground pursuing such and such."

i wouldn't get my hopes up too much about the high speed, hunting terrorists stuff.  my understanding is that most of those guys are former SF guys who have been recruited in.  i'm sure their are always exceptions though.

Heh I'm perfectly willing to pay my dues.

nvm wrong branch

I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of positions in the CIA are ungodly boring and only the top 1%, at best, of their recruits get to do the "fun" stuff you think you are interested in.

You're best bet may to get involved with law enforcement (State level) and then move on to an alphabet-soup agency.

I wouldn't imagine anyone with no grunt experience or officer position will move on past the application process with the elite folk.

Aint nothing wrong with fed law enforcement... I'd consider Local/State/Fed law enforcement if my knee wasn't FUBAR hurt a little.

- BUCC_Guy

Quoted: even the EPA has a CID.

Remember this post. If you're ever pacing the floor asking yourself "What's wrong with America?" you can re-read it and sleep soundly.

My only connection to the Cia was my friend's dad.  He is a professor of political science, specialiszing in Central Asia.  Has recruited students into he CIA to specialize in that area.  Spends about hapf his working hours in Central Asia, the other half teaching college.

the CIA looks for people that they can place as analysts, administrative types, technicians and to a much lesser extent than most are led to believe, field operatives.  

Analysts are usually hired according to what they're needing at the time.  Techs are always needed as the field is usually pretty hard to keep good talent with a GS salary.  Techs with the talent are usually snapped up by people that dazzle them with dollar signs over serving with the secret squirrels.  The Science and Technology division is vast and does a lot of work with a lot of the other acronyms, NSA, NRO, DIA, etc.  

The admins are just like normal office types, I guess they can just keep their mouths shut though.

Field spooks are the ex-military types or super-adventurous foreign-relations degrees right out of grad school.  If they're not so super-adventurous, they will probably go to the analytical side of the house and placed according to talent and department needs.

You said you have a Business degree, the FBI would love to have you.  They head up most of the white-collar type crimes that happen in this country (and sometimes other countries as well).  if it happens over state lines, it's federal juristiction, so they get a lot of that stuff.  


Wanna hunt evil Martha Stewart-types?  Call the feds.

One of the first things they ask you when you submit your resume online is "What other language skills do you possess?" Another is "Have you lived overseas? Where and for how long?"

Working operations overseas requires a knowledge of the language and a familiarity with the culture. This was stressed when I had my phone interview with a recruiter. This gentleman apparently spent a lot of time in Europe, particularly Spain (I had checked off "Spanish" as one of my language skills, in addition to Mandarin Chinese). I passed his little language test, but since I had never been to Spain, there was no way of knowing every little cultural nuance.

That did not seem to make any difference, as he was more interested in my growing up in SE Asia, and my familiarity with the cultures. That phone interview got me a follow up, in-person interview in Los Angeles, but unfortunately, they called me after I had accepted a very generous offer from my current employer.

All in all, despite my overseas experience, language skills, small-arms and infantry training, I think they'd still coop me up at Langley as an analyst, because of two things:

1) My B.Sci degree in Chemical and Materials Engineering
2) I'm not a "people" person. I can't play other people and recruit assets. The only thing I'm good for is dropping in-country with a rifle and a set of coordinates and time.


All that is assuming I MAKE it past the background check. My parents are naturalized citizens from Taiwan. With what happened to that Taiwanese guy at Los Alamos, I don't think I stand a chance.





ETA: WOOHOO! 800!

If you're interested in being on the ground with the military, then why not just join the military?  

Not to sound like an asshole, but the first question I'd ask you is, "Why do you think you can cut it as a field agent in the CIA if you couldn't even hack it in ROTC?"  I'm not trying to flame you, as I know you have back injuries and surgery and would have required waivers out the backside, but that leads into the next follow-up question I'd have, which is, "If the military won't take you with you're physical problems, why should we in the CIA?"  "If you're going to work in the field with the military, how can you do that with a back so screwed up the military won't take you?"  "If you could have gotten waviers for all that, why didn't you?  Are you a quitter? Are you not interested in persuing a goal if the going gets tough?"  

I know I'm sounding like a dickhead, but I'm just giving you an example of what they're going to be wondering.  I'm not trying to flame you at all, and please don't take it like that, but these ARE questions they're going to want answers to if you're thinking about getting Rambo's job.  Be ready with some good answers.

Ross

Quoted: I don't think I should even list my previous work experience, as its only pushing carts at the local food store and hocing liqour at the local liqour store.

Whichever route you take you're gonna want have to list everything anyway.  They are going to want to account for every year of your life so far wheter it's school or job or nothing.  No sense lying just because you got the same job half of everyone else starts at.

the CIA is a figment of your imagination

these arent the droids you are looking for.

move along

When I was in college they set up a little table on Career Day.  If you gave them your name they came back the next week and conducted a 1-on-1 interview.  The first thing they said in the interview was, "You're not allowed to tell anyone you interviewed with us.  If you are hired you can consider this your first order."  

It was a Jesuit University.  Supposedly, the CIA as well as the FBI recruit heavily in Jebbie schools.  I know that some of the priests that taught me had worked on the old SALT treaties in one capacity or another.

So maybe you should take some post-grad poli-sci courses at the closest Jesuit school (St Joe's, BC, Georgetown).  If you're good, they'll find you.  Polish up on that Polish (sorry) and maybe learn some other Eastern European languages.  Don't forget that we stage a lot of "stuff" out of former USSR republics.

Quoted: When I was in college they set up a little table on Career Day.  If you gave them your name they came back the next week and conducted a 1-on-1 interview.  The first thing they said in the interview was, "You're not allowed to tell anyone you interviewed with us.  If you are hired you can consider this your first order."

I interviewed for a summer internship. They didn't
say this to me. In fact, they didn't even mention
anything about any cloak-and-dagger stuff. They
needed engineers badly. That was seven years ago
and, by all accounts, they are still deperate for
engineers. However, with a top published pay grade
of $60K, they are not going to attract many.

Quoted: Quoted: I don't think I should even list my previous work experience, as its only pushing carts at the local food store and hocing liqour at the local liqour store. Whichever route you take you're gonna want have to list everything anyway.  They are going to want to account for every year of your life so far wheter it's school or job or nothing.  No sense lying just because you got the same job half of everyone else starts at.

Yup, EVERY moment of your life, including your residence and your empolyer information - going back 10 years - just to start a Top Secret investigation.  BTW, there have always been agents out there who have served in Communists militaries - I have a friend in the Army who has Top Secret Clearance and works with Nukes / VIP support with Secret Service, etc. stuff as a routing part of his Job- he was in the Soviet, then Ukrainian Army originally.  Admitteldy, his security paperwork and investigation was a tad more complicated than most.  The thing about 4-5 generations would rule out probably half of America!  Somebody you talked to was full of shit.

If there is any one post you should focus on here, it is Ross's - the man speaks wisdom and beat me to the punch.

What kind of job are you looking for?

The CIA is similar to our ASIO.  A mate of mine knew someone who used to work for ASIO as a surveillance guy.  Long hours, pay wasnt that good, family life really blows.  If you see someone on the street that you know while following someone, you cant give your friend any recognition.  You are on call 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.  Sometimes they called him up, told him to pack for a week and thats all he would know until he was sent out.  The guy left cos of the crap hours and cos he had no life because of his job.

I think the school system in NJ got you into thinking too much about yourself. You need to re-read ROSS MEMBER posting. He has it right.  Please do not waste the taxpayers money by having some clerk reject your resume. Good luck.

My only problem with the CIA is that everyone I ever met who worked there was a head-job.

GunLvr

If you're interested in being on the ground with the military, then why not just join the military?

I joined ROTC for that very reason, was bounced by MEPS... they knew of one waiverable issue and didnt want to even schedule me. The detachment staff were very helpful and completely in my corner trying to get me down there in person, but MEPS said that I needed to provide my lifetime medical history before theyd consider it. While going over that they found 2 other waiverable issues and made it clear in not so uncertain terms that MEPS would never let me go down for an actual physical.

I'd MUCH rather join the Military, it was my first choice all along. However I can't even get into the Reserves or the Gaurd, nonetheless any branch of the Active Duty force because MEPS will refuse any appointments.

Not to sound like an asshole, but the first question I'd ask you is, "Why do you think you can cut it as a field agent in the CIA if you couldn't even hack it in ROTC?" I'm not trying to flame you, as I know you have back injuries and surgery and would have required waivers out the backside, but that leads into the next follow-up question I'd have, which is, "If the military won't take you with you're physical problems, why should we in the CIA?" "If you're going to work in the field with the military, how can you do that with a back so screwed up the military won't take you?" "If you could have gotten waviers for all that, why didn't you? Are you a quitter? Are you not interested in persuing a goal if the going gets tough?"

To answer your questions, I was disqaulified for minor medical reasons... my actual performance in the ROTC learning environment was good. My physical scores started decent but were detrimented by the back surgeries I had during the period.

Towards the end I was mostly occupied with being jerked around trying to satisfy MEPS so I could get a physical and my scores sufferred for it. It is worth noting however that I wasn't failed out of ROTC, I was dismissed because MEPS wouldn't see me.

The Fact of the matter is that the three problems are Rods in my Back, a high protein reading  in my Urine and a case of Bronchitus when I was 12 that caused and asthma like episode which has never  recurred. The Rods in my Back are for Schuermans Kyphosis, and are mainly cosmetic to straiten a visible curvature. I have full range of motion and no soreness, debilitation, or physical weakness
due to it.

The Bronchitis thing is well, Bronchitis, I got sick when I was twelve couldnt breathe and went to the Emergency room. I got better and hadnt had any symptoms at all for years.

PRotein in the piss, well I have no idea what that constitutes I went to the doc and he did a bunch of tests and told me that in my case it was perfectly normal and not a symptom of anything. So I guess I piss too much protein, its my cross to bear...

I spent the majority of my 3 years in ROTC attempting to get Waivers, causing the tug-of-War with MEPS who finally made it clear that it wasn't happenning, I didn't quit. I kept going for close to two years trying to get an appointment with considerable effort, until the Detachment staff told me that it was over. I did not quit, I took it as far as I possibly could.

The going got tough and I hung in until dismissed, I had no intention of quitting and if the Detachment were to somehow find a way to get me to finish the Program I would take it in a heartbeat.

I know I'm sounding like a dickhead, but I'm just giving you an example of what they're going to be wondering. I'm not trying to flame you at all, and please don't take it like that, but these ARE questions they're going to want answers to if you're thinking about getting Rambo's job. Be ready with some good answers.

I genuinely apprecciatte it, I expect them to ask these sort of thing too. I'd best be prepared. Your post was productive and helpful, the only post that irked me was the guy who told me not to waste taxpayers money.

As an interesting side note, when the Detachment commander told me that I was dismissed I was crestfallen and actually apologized right there in his office with the Detachment staff Sgt present for wasting taxpayer money.

I posted the anecdote a while back on ARFcom in a drunken post dealing with how disappointed I was in myself... lots of people called me a whiny little bitch.

I want to serve my country, I don't want to do this for my ego or my satisfaction... I want to do this because I feel a calling to do so.

And Lastly I don't want Rambo's Job, I want  Rambo's starting job... I'm willing to work, train and learn for years until Im capable... I just want the chance to do so.

I'm glad you understood what I was saying and didn't take it as a personal attack.  

First of all you have to understand that if the military won't take you because of medical reasons, the odds are pretty slim that the agency will take you for any field work.  That's just the way it is.  I'd seriously consider that first and face that reality.  While the agency will have different physical requirments for the job, you have to understand that a physical requirement is there for a reason.  It's not that you're a loser, or incapable of the job, but the job itself requires certain physical attributes that you just don't have.  You're going to have to learn to live with that.  It sucks, but you have to play what cards you are delt.

Having said that, I would also say your idea about applying for the Professional Trainee Program is a better route to take.  This is really what the CIA is all about.  The only purpose for the CIA exists is to support national command authority with an intelligence product that is accurate, timely, and usable.  By going in on that program, you'd be making a difference.  

Also there would be more avenues of approach open to you once you're in, that wouldn't be to someone on the outside.  

Ross

Quoted: I could tell you about them ... but then I'd have to kill you. They do recruit so give them a call. If you speak additional languages that's a good thing even with the CIA.

And if he told you about it I would have to kill him!!  


So just don't ask!!

Bob

Quoted: If you're interested in being on the ground with the military, then why not just join the military?   Not to sound like an asshole, but the first question I'd ask you is, "Why do you think you can cut it as a field agent in the CIA if you couldn't even hack it in ROTC?"  I'm not trying to flame you, as I know you have back injuries and surgery and would have required waivers out the backside, but that leads into the next follow-up question I'd have, which is, "If the military won't take you with you're physical problems, why should we in the CIA?"  "If you're going to work in the field with the military, how can you do that with a back so screwed up the military won't take you?"  "If you could have gotten waviers for all that, why didn't you?  Are you a quitter? Are you not interested in persuing a goal if the going gets tough?"   I know I'm sounding like a dickhead, but I'm just giving you an example of what they're going to be wondering.  I'm not trying to flame you at all, and please don't take it like that, but these ARE questions they're going to want answers to if you're thinking about getting Rambo's job.  Be ready with some good answers. Ross

+1

I cant say anything that Ross didnt

you need some more realistic expectations. 2 back surguries and enough physical issues to get you booted out of ROTC... be an analyst. its an important job and theres honor in it.

in my limited exposure to CIA field types they were all military guys that had been "sheep-dipped". scout/snipers, and SF soldiers who bought into the recruitment spiel. anymore i could say would just sound mean, or sound like a flame which i dont mean it to be. but you need to look in the mirror and see what you have to offer as a field operative. no military background, no military training, ROTC washout. any federal law enforcement is going to be physically demanding. i know a lot of guys whove been through the FLETC and they said it was tough but not terrible. however 2 of my Marine buddies who are now FBI said the FBI academy was tougher physically than parris island.

Up until recently the CIA was limited to destabilizing foreign countries, and monitoring others to ensure good behavior.
Now they have been given the green light to operate here inside the US.

You may find that you wouldn't be sent overseas at all.

Quoted: Just wanna try and get some perspective from ARFCOM as I'm not really sure how to proceed.

I worked there in the 80s'. It was the best job I ever had. I left when John Kerry and his buddies decided to gut our budget (and all the cool overseas jobs) after the Wall came down and it was decided we had no enemies and needed to spend the Peace Dividend on something other than trying to figure out where the next attack was coming from. What a heavy price we paid for that huh?

Anyway, I will be glad to answer specific questions. Have some photos at renegade.tgtech.com/, Oh yeah, and just about everything I have read (but not all)  in this thread is incorrect, so do not get discouraged.

If you want to read a good book about what case officers do read "See No Evil" by Robert Baer.  

Quoted: I worked there in the 80s'. It was the best job I ever had.

Was this because of the work or because
of the fact that you had a foreign posting.
I ask because I wonder how analysts in
Langley feel about it. Did you have any
exposure to those employees with less
glamorous positions (e.g. software droids)?

Quoted: Quoted: I worked there in the 80s'. It was the best job I ever had. Was this because of the work or because of the fact that you had a foreign posting. I ask because I wonder how analysts in Langley feel about it. Did you have any exposure to those employees with less glamorous positions (e.g. software droids)?

Actually, I started out as Computer Analyst (sysadmin) at NSA. That was a lot of fun, cutting edge technology, lots of custom devices, lots of fun. My supervisor encourgaged expanding to other jobs outside of computers, and I did. Eventually I worked on a joint task force, worked with some CIA guys, and moved over there.

During my time, it was fun overseas or at the Unix Command Line '%'. Budgets were going up in the 80s, we were winning the Cold War and we knew it, so there was a great sense of pride and accomplishment. Moral was high. I imagine a similar situation exists today. Plus, it is always fun to know "the rest of the story".

I appreciette all the good advice.

I'm pretty sure that I'm not qaulified enough for one of the higher positions, but the trainee program sounds like its at least worth a shot.

Oh and I realize the physical requirements, but I don't think you guys understand that I wasn't dropped or washed out because of my inability to meet the physical requirements. I pretty much did fine with most of the physical stuff, I wasnt the best by far but I did okay. Running wasn't too fun but I was improving, that took a nosedive when I started driving around getting records and the such instead of practicing but Im fairly sure I could do ok with that now.

The 3 things that MEPS took issue with arent functional problems, so I'm not terribly sure theyd be dealbreakers fro the CIA.

Realistically I'd like to get into the agency, and if all I can do is be an analyst I'll be an analyst but while I'm in I'm going to try to get into field work or security. It may take a couple of years, but I don't think its completely unreasonable to aim for.

If I can't even get into the Agency theres the Secret Service, I talked to an officer about it casually and she gave me the number of  thier Recruiter and told me I could almost definitely get work. So if worst comes to worst I'll do that and build up a couple years of security experience and then down the line try to do something overseas with that Experience.

If worse come to worse, you can always try for the Culinary Institute of America.

Yes, there really is such a thing.

Quoted: Quoted: Was this because of the work or because of the fact that you had a foreign posting. I ask because I wonder how analysts in Langley feel about it. Did you have any exposure to those employees with less glamorous positions (e.g. software droids)? Actually, I started out as Computer Analyst (sysadmin) at NSA. That was a lot of fun, cutting edge technology, lots of custom devices, lots of fun. My supervisor encourgaged expanding to other jobs outside of computers, and I did. Eventually I worked on a joint task force, worked with some CIA guys, and moved over there. During my time, it was fun overseas or at the Unix Command Line '%'. Budgets were going up in the 80s, we were winning the Cold War and we knew it, so there was a great sense of pride and accomplishment. Moral was high. I imagine a similar situation exists today. Plus, it is always fun to know "the rest of the story".

Thanks alot for the information. The only
thing that I'll say is that there is often more
to life than money (or, happiness is not a big
salary).