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Posted: 8/21/2004 11:12:47 AM EDT
[#1]
You are of course referring to the days when basketball was a team sport. Now, it's all about me!
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Posted: 8/21/2004 11:16:36 AM EDT
[#2]
Yea, I went to UK and the five national championships produced not one superstar. Sad, what the sport has become. Tj |
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Posted: 8/21/2004 11:16:54 AM EDT
[#3]
"Professional" sports in this country is about one thing... MONEY. The owners don't give a crap about anything but getting TV contracts and butts in the seats. They will hire ANYONE that will generate money for them and in this society that usually means people that have somesort of "gimmick" or are so "shocking" that the fans tune in just to see what will happen next.
It hasn't been about TEAM and ACHIVEMENT since the first baseball strike. That's when it turned into a BUSINESS and a JOB instead of SPORT. The last time I followed any team was back in '96-97 when I lived in SFO I got hooked on the 49'ers. Jerry Rice and Steve Young (and the team in general) personified what I remembered about "Pro" sports as I was growing up. Today Pro Sports is just something to fill in time between the commercials which are the REALLY important thing. 
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Posted: 8/21/2004 11:17:04 AM EDT
[#4]
Like it or not, you can thank Michael Jordan for this.
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Posted: 8/21/2004 11:20:11 AM EDT
[#5]
Unless we change our attitudes in America, I think this will be common place. I'll put a "team" against five individuals anyday. |
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Posted: 8/21/2004 11:21:46 AM EDT
[#6]
Funny you should say that for it is an exact quote of "Adolph Rupp". Tj |
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Posted: 8/21/2004 11:21:56 AM EDT
[#7]
Exactly why I no longer watch it. |
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Posted: 8/21/2004 11:25:24 AM EDT
[#8]
But if Jordan hadn't been taught the fundamentals by Dean Smith, he would have been just another player. Q: Who can hold MJ to 20 pts a game? A: Dean Smith
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Posted: 8/21/2004 11:26:49 AM EDT
[#9]
Don't know him, but he sounds like a smart man. 
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Posted: 8/21/2004 11:30:01 AM EDT
[#10]
Now there's another coach that understood fundamentals and holds the respect of any long time basketball fan. Rupp, Dean, and Wooten, now that was basketball. Tj |
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Posted: 8/21/2004 11:30:34 AM EDT
[#11]
Adolph Rupp, as in Rupp Arena at the University of Kentucky. The U.S. Capitol of college basketball.
Bob
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Posted: 8/21/2004 11:32:12 AM EDT
[#12]
I don't get your point. It's would be OK to lose as long as MJ scored alot? |
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Posted: 8/21/2004 11:34:51 AM EDT
[#13]
I know very little about basketball but it seems to me that if the scores are constantly 100+ to 100+ that defense is not stressed.
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Posted: 8/21/2004 11:34:53 AM EDT
[#14]
Michael Jordan is the single player who is responsible for the increased emphasis the basketball world put on: A. Scoring lots of points regardless of the outcome of the game B. Taking as many shots as possible C. Dunking D. Showboating while dunking E. Making sure your game is good for marketing and endorsements All the kids playing now learned these lessons from MJ. |
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Posted: 8/21/2004 11:41:54 AM EDT
[#15]
Truer words have never been spoken. Michael Jordan elevated the act of palming, travelling, double dribbling, hooking and pushing-off to an art form all for the mighty bling-bling. ANYONE who was allowed to cheat and draw BS-fouls as much as Jordan can score 40pts a night. |
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Posted: 8/21/2004 12:03:27 PM EDT
[#16]
Well I'll be damned! Never knew you attended big blue. BTW, not to nitpick, but we now have 7 national championships in basketball. The last two came in 1996 and 1998. While I agree, basketball has largely gone from a team sport to one of flash. I am proud we still have an old school coach like Tubby Smith at UK. His guys either play tough, grinding defense, or else they don't play at all. In fact, I much prefer him to the run and gun and shoot 3's every trip down court style of Rick Pitino when he was here. But out of all of them, I suppose Rupp is still da man. He was the one who got it all started and built the dynasty. |
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Posted: 8/21/2004 12:04:27 PM EDT
[#17]
Mac you should have watched Shaq play college ball after his daddy came out in the media and said he would pull him from LSU if he got fouled anymore. He could do no wrong. Tj |
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Posted: 8/21/2004 12:25:54 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Adolph Rupp, as in Rupp Arena at the University of Kentucky. The U.S. Capitol of college basketball. Bob Damn straight. |
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Posted: 8/21/2004 12:36:27 PM EDT
[#19]
And "Money" is about winning. Losing teams don't bring in the dough. Btw, wtf is up with this: We win: "Your Olympic team is made up of all PRO players! It's not fair, you cheated. Of course the pros are better." We lose: "Pro sports is shit." Bla bla bla bla bla. |
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Posted: 8/21/2004 12:37:19 PM EDT
[#20]
It means Jordan's coach at UNC made him play as a team member, no matter how good he was individually. |
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Posted: 8/21/2004 1:28:40 PM EDT
[#21]
I have a feeling that you don't watch that much basketball. While you are correct that there is more of an emphasis on individual achievement today than there once was it is not the reason the US has been playing poorly. The following are much more significant:
1. USA basketball has a big target on it's back. Everyone plays as hard as they can against us. 2. Olympic rules are VERY different than NBA rules. I won't go into the differences here but the main point is that other teams play with these Oly rules all year round while our players only encounter them in the weeks leading up to the Olympics, World Championships, etc... 3. Foreign teams play together for much longer than the US players. This is of course because of the NBA. 4. Our best players decline to play for the national team. Players like KG, Shaq, Kobe, Kidd, and Bibby would DESTROY the competition. Instead we're stuck with lower tier players like Jefferson, James, and Anthony (they're rookies for Christ sake). 5. Lastly, USA Basketball makes poor decisions on who to send. There are NO perimeter shooters on this team and not enough big guys. This must have been all to obvious as you watched the three games so far. The reason they are losing is not this individual attitude you bring up. While it might bother you personally, it simply is not the reason they aren't that good. |
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Posted: 8/21/2004 1:39:55 PM EDT
[#22]
US Professional Athlete = Rapper/Actor/Fashion Designer/Pitch man
They have very little to do with athletics anymore. It's all about the points for the agents. |
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Posted: 8/21/2004 2:20:29 PM EDT
[#23]
THe fact that PROS got beat TWICE by amatures, shows that the PROS lack the TEAM concept.
Every player on the US team is overpaid in the NBA, as are most of the major league players. |
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Posted: 8/21/2004 2:37:49 PM EDT
[#24]
As to the title of this thread...
Blacks are 12.3% of the US population. Blacks are nearly 100% of the NBA population. Something ain't right there. 'Nuff said. 
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Posted: 8/21/2004 2:43:27 PM EDT
[#25]
I've been watching B-ball for more than 30 years ... it's always been a tough sport with it's franchise players. But Kobe Bryant took it to a whole new level. Hot dog is a normal discription of this clowns efforts. |
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Posted: 8/21/2004 2:55:23 PM EDT
[#26]
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Posted: 8/21/2004 2:58:04 PM EDT
[#27]
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Posted: 8/21/2004 3:19:28 PM EDT
[#28]
 Sorry Doc just laughing at the not watch much basketball comment to a guy who grew up in KY and went to UK. Where I grew up we didn't know any other sports excisted. My comments are on the style of play. The Litiuanian team today reminded me of the US college all star olympic teams of the past. They moved fast, played hard, and focused on fundamentals yes like outside shooting and free throws. It's hard to find a team, any team, in the US these days that shoots better than 70% from the free throw line. The US team today had more talent by far, it just found it's self beat on fundamentals. The lamest excuse I heard was when the commentator said the closer 3 point line keeps throwing their game off. Without fundamentals even a more talented team that hasn't played together that long will get beat by a less talented team that has. Yes the rules had an impact but then celebraty status didn't influence the officials on foul calling either. Of course, The Dream Teams were a hoot in the Olympics but our dependence on superstars to carry the day over style of play has cost us dearly in a year that the superstars refused to play. I'll even go so far as to say we may never see the likes of The Dream Teams again for if you look at who those guys were they came from college programs steeped in the concepts of fundamentals whereas today even college teams are not. The forumal to beat an average US team these days is simple. Deny them the lane and make them depend on permeter shooting. If you have a deep bench just foul their permeter shooters for odds are they will shoot less than 60% from the free throw line. The well balanced team of a large center and two large excellent peremter shooter forwards led by two no miss ball handling guards has given way to everyone dunks. Tj |
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Posted: 8/21/2004 3:26:37 PM EDT
[#29]
I as much as the next guy do not really like the NBA pro's playing Olympic basketball but to call other countries team players amateurs is pretty ignorant. Darius Songaila plays for the Kings. Sarunas Jasikevicius turned down this year a 5 year multimillion dollar contract to play for CSKA Moscow instead deciding to remain with his Maccabi Tel Aviv team for another year. Ksystofas Lavrinovicius and Saulius Stombergas play Pro ball in Russia. I am sure the rest of the team also plays pro-ball in Europe. The reason our pro's do not play like a team is because they are not a team, they are just all-stars put together at the last minute. You can't blame them for that. Place the blame with the U.S. Olympic committee. I have to agree with pretty much all the points that DocBrooks brought up. For example:
The Lithuanians denied the under basket shot because in Olympic ball you can play zones where you bunch your defense up. That is why you see so many good perimeter shooters from other countries. In the NBA those zone defenses would be illegal. The goal of the U.S. today was to hammer the boards and score in the paint because based on bad choices they do not have good perimeter shooters on the team and thus had to rely on their strongpoints. |
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Posted: 8/21/2004 3:42:59 PM EDT
[#30]
Did you somehow miss the VERY FIRST SENTENCE in this thread. Let's not be dumbasses, OK? |
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Posted: 8/21/2004 3:57:47 PM EDT
[#31]
That says it all. All star "teams" never work out. |
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Posted: 8/21/2004 4:01:05 PM EDT
[#32]
Tagged for further reading.
I cant stand basketball. But this is a good discusion to listen in on. |
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Posted: 8/21/2004 4:01:37 PM EDT
[#33]
uze talkin hoop?
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Posted: 8/21/2004 4:18:45 PM EDT
[#34]
What does this have to do with Jewish Ghettoes?
The word Ghetto was adopted to describe a population of people(Jews) that were forcibly seperated from the general population , and endured slum like conditions. I've never really liked the term Ghetto as it is applied today to describe housing projects and so forth. Sorry to pick nits TJ. I don't mean to be a smart @ss, or to hijack this thread. You make an excellent point about basketball. I just had the poor taste to mention my personal feelings on the title. I just don't think most people realize what they are saying when they use the word. I guess I should start my own thread... Now back to our previously scheduled post.
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Posted: 8/22/2004 5:38:34 AM EDT
[#35]
Atencio,
Yep you nailed it the zone defense denied the US the lane and forced them into a peremeter game and without outside shooting a lower scoring game which evened the playing field. Unfortunately I watched my team, UK, get beat by the same tactics in the NCAA trouny this year by a little known team no less. Years back the zone defense was as much the norm as the one on one if not more. UK perfected the 1:3:1 which required alot of speed to work effectively but allowed a better man to man switch off/match up without giving up the zone. Teams were smaller then and faster so you don't see this zone as often these days but occasionally it is still used. NC was the mater of the 1:2:2 in their height. IMHO, the no zone rule in the NBA is just one more example of changing the rules for marketing reasons to allow more dunks. Personaly I get a bigger rush out of seeing a simple layup with no defender around. To me, that is the ultimate insult and in your face. Of special note, one of the tactics to defeat a zone defense is to full court press forcing the team using a zone to switch to a man to man by picking the pace up in the game. The US attempts especially the last pocession or two at a full court press was lame since the smaller team was just too damn fast. Like in my earlier post we lacked balance of size and speed. Greatest example of pro balanced teams I can think of was the Bucs and Lakers, Chamberlan against Jabar, with fast nail driving guards like Jerry West. Damn what too teams those were. Yes 21doc, I am guilty of using sensationalism to get people to read this thread, however the term Ghetto has been used to describe the projects in large cities since the 60's and intended no reference to 20 years before that. Tj |
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Posted: 8/22/2004 5:51:30 AM EDT
[#36]
Troll thread if I ever saw one....
First you say...
Followed by.....
 Gimme a fuckin break. If the thread title didnt set a racial tone for the thread, nothing anyone else could say would.Dont forget you also said...
You named the parameters of the thread from the start, Im telling Sally.  And for those of you blaming modern basketballs on MJ, you may not remember it but..... The ABA changed basketball forever.   |
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Posted: 8/22/2004 5:55:11 AM EDT
[#37]
Can't shoot jumpers.
Can't shoot freethrows. Won't win games. |
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Posted: 8/22/2004 6:02:28 AM EDT
[#38]
I think the America pendelum has swung to the individual in more than just baskeball.
Even the Military, which is all about team work has a new slogan, "An Army of One". I have always prized individualism but can also admire a well trained team that works together well. |
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Posted: 8/22/2004 6:21:35 AM EDT
[#39]
Jordan was the last high dollar player that made his team mates look and play better. He was a warrrior and a gentleman on the court. He openly states that Pippen, Kerr, Armstrong and the Bulls bench were the reason he enjoyed such sucess on the court. Compare this to the "Thug Ballers" of today and you'll see why I went from watching 100 plus games a year to ZERO. We will never see the likes of Bird, Parish and McHale on one team again, sad...  |
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Posted: 8/22/2004 6:40:08 AM EDT
[#40]
I have always clled it ghettoball since they started allowing carrying over, travelling, etc...
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Posted: 8/22/2004 6:44:24 AM EDT
[#41]
Wait, where is the 'team' you speak of? All I saw was a bunch of cry baby millionaires, whose collective contracts are worth in the billions get creamed by some tall cow milkier and sheppard boys from Eastern Europe. |
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Posted: 8/22/2004 6:44:37 AM EDT
[#42]
One other thing we need to remember here. Even though Michael Jordan is likely the guy that all of today's players try to emulate, let's remember, these guys aren't Michael Jordan! Jordan was a guy who was a one in one hundred years type of player. So while these players try to act like Jordan, they aren't Jordan. If Jordan was on this team, they would not have lost yesterday. Like him/his style or not, Jordan could actually get the job done, which is more than I can say for the team we have on the court this year. So while I hate hot-dogging, ball hogging and that sort of thing, Jordan could get it done on the court. But these guys seriously need to remember who they are. Young guys like Carmelo Anthony, Richard Jefferson, and LeBron James have lots of talent, but Michael Jordan they are not. Now if we could only convince them of this.
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Posted: 8/22/2004 6:48:52 AM EDT
[#43]
"Army of One" is a freakin' Army RECRUITING slogan, not the "Military" slogan. It is marketed towards CIVILIANS - and - perhaps as an indicator of our society - seems to work. To say that that slogan is indicative of the Army - or the military as a whole - displayes outright ignorance on your part. |
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Posted: 8/22/2004 6:51:20 AM EDT
[#44]
This is 100% about the NBA rule that prohibits zone D.
Not ghettoization, palming, traveling, or bling. The NBA is the only league in world that has outlawed zone defense. We now have 5 one-on-one games going on. Who can stop Shaq by himself? Nobody. (Maybe Yao) At the same time, how much easier it to get an open look at at three-pointer against a zone? |
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Posted: 8/22/2004 6:56:48 AM EDT
[#45]
Wrong. The ABA influenced the NBA, but it was the ABA that dissolved and a few of the teams were absorbed by the NBA. The NBA was revitalized by the quality of the players that started playing in the early 80s. These players, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Isiah Thomas (to name a few) all were extremely talented but what set them apart was their ability to include the entire cast around them into the flow of the game. Consequently, we remember the Celtics and Lakers of the 80s as being the best TEAMS the NBA has ever seen. Michael Jordan reversed that trend, starting with his rookie year. The entire game was about "Jordan," how many points he would score that night, and how many crowd-pleasing dunks he would attempt. People went to see the Bulls because of Jordan, people went to see the Lakers and Celtics to experience basketball at it's zenith. I still say that the Lakers from the 80s would destroy any team from any era. I say this because many people consider the Celtics from the 80s as being the best of all time and the Lakers beat them much more often than they lost to them. No team from the 90s or today would be able to touch those Lakers. No one. They had Hall-of-Famers up the wazzoo and they all meshed perfectly. |
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Posted: 8/22/2004 7:02:02 AM EDT
[#46]
This "army of one" thing has me a bit confused. Some seem to take it to mean as in a ONE INDIVIDUAL type thing. But my interpretation of it means what it says...an army of one. Not one person, but rather a team that "works as one". I guess it could be interpreted multiple ways. But me this seems less individual oriented than the older slogan "be all you can be". To me, that seems to place more emphasis on individuality than the new one, based on my interpretation anyway. I mean afterall, "being all you can be" only speaks for the individual and not necessarily the whole team. Maybe I'm just dense, I dunno. LOL.
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Posted: 8/22/2004 8:45:47 AM EDT
[#47]
?
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Posted: 8/22/2004 8:51:05 AM EDT
[#48]
echo...
"ARMY OF ONE" |
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Posted: 8/22/2004 9:15:03 AM EDT
[#49]
Fixed it for ya. All pro sports have sacrificed the integrity of their respective games for the almighty dollar. NBA - Sprewell should have been fired (you try to choke your boss and see if you keep your job) MLB - Alomar should have been fired (you try to spit in your boss's face and see if you keep your job) NFL - Dallas (and other teams) get byes for athlete's coke habits and other antics Even older conservative stalwarts like Nascar are selling out to the wrestling inspired hype, nonsense and contrived drama. Call it ghettoization or just pandering to the lowest common denominator - the "sports" today might just as well be Vegas sideshows (notice the weiner drug ads on every single sporting event?) all designed to seperate the mindless consumer from their dollar as quickly as possible. Just compare the endorsements & commercial time of ANY sport broadcast today with it's equivalent of 30, or even 20 years ago. Need we even go into corrupt politicians bought off to push through new stadiums for these It's all about money, nothing to do with sportsmanship, and I support none of it. |
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Posted: 8/22/2004 9:28:23 AM EDT
[#50]
There's going to be a fight...  The two loses were not surprised me at all. IMO. Some/Most of the players in this particular team think that Olympics is an exhibition (like All-Star Games), and thinking that talents alone are enough to kick the world's ass. When the team captain criticized the coach for not starting him because he was late for the meeting, something is wrong. |
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