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Posted: 5/13/2004 9:04:18 AM EDT
[#1]
Yes I have and to tell you the truth my life is worth more than what they might try to make out of what weapon I used. I've never tahnk god had to shoot a person. I have been through two home invasions. As long as I'm alive I don't care what some lawyer tries to get a judge or jury to believe. In fact the DA probably wouldn't even press charges here. Sure the family can sue me but oh fucking well. Make an issue of my gun of choice I don't care. Being alive and going through that shit is more important and better than being dead because the PC weapon I used didn't work as well as the weapon I should have used. When yer life is on the line or your loved ones lives are on the line, there is not room to be PC. There are some things inb life that should never be a compramise and how you deal with a life or death situation is one of those things that not negotiable you don't compramise on equipment or the ammo or any of that shit. You use what gives you the best chance at comming out alive. IF that means using an evil looking AR15 thats what it means. I don;t give about PC bullshit when my ass is on the line and neither should anyone else. Yer life is mor important than being PC. |
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Posted: 5/13/2004 9:43:57 AM EDT
[#2]
Don't matter to me. I have no intention on calling the cops if I blow away some frickin sumbag breaking into my home. I live out in the boonies, gunshots are not unusual, even at night and the cops have enough paperwork to do. I figure I got a tarp, a shovel and some rope and that's all I plan on needing. Other than that I have no intention of going in peaceably. End of discussion.
Consider it all from the scumbag's point of view. He has your 10 year old daughter around the neck and is using her as a human shield. He has a .45 in one hand. You have given away your position as well as the fact that you have a gun buy shucking your weapon. He advances upon you knowing full well that you won't blast your daughter with 00buck. He, of course, is able to fire at will. Everything in that house is the enemy to him, and the fact that he knows someone is armed means that he will have to first kill one, then all of you. Now consider the same scenario with an M4 or something similar. |
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Posted: 5/13/2004 10:15:34 AM EDT
[#3]
A preban or post Sept 14 AR with a collapsible stock and 16" barrel, VFG, reflex type sight and frangible bullets (available at ammoman.com) ought to work nicely.
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Posted: 5/13/2004 10:30:12 AM EDT
[#4]
1. first problem is ID'g your target: How do you do this? Remember, its dark, you have been asleep, you don;t really have much practicle training in this b/c you don;t do it everyday
What is hte best way to ID the target? Big weapon/Tactical light. Most shotguns don't have an effcient way to mount one. A CAR-15 with a rail does. A. Actually, a Raptor 3rd Gen NVG would be the best, but most of us don;t have the $4k to put into a good weapon sight like this. 2. second problem: hitting your target. A red dot with a good weapon light lets you know EXACTLY where your projectile will hit the target. Again, a CAR-15 firees one bullet. A shotgun fires lots of projectiles A. The shotgun, contrary to popular belief, fires a narrow pattern at short distances, so your hit ability isn't that much greater unless you aim it like the rifle. 3. Penetration: You don;t want to over penetrate the target or strucutre behind the target if you miss. A CAR-15 with a military spec round will fragment after going through a wall and stop in the next wall. 00 buck and pistol rounds keep on going. You are also more likely to miss you target with a shotgun for the above reasons. 4. The shotgun, without a good weapon light makes it harder to ID the target and its more likely that you will miss becasue its aiming systems are much less sophisticated. Now, if you equip your cshotgun with a light and an AIMPOINT, then you increase your hit potential and decrease the potential of over penetration due to pellets missing the target. But, once again, you are still putting a lot of bullets downrange and if any of these miss they may go through several walls. The CAR-15 set up with a weapon light and aimpoint is still my first chioce. |
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Posted: 5/13/2004 10:33:31 AM EDT
[#5]
9 carbine, i practice with it a lot because it's fun and tough and cheap and shoots plenty accurately.
i agree with the guy comparing a rifle or shottie indoors as being a flashbang. don't want to flashbang yourself, do ya? i'm not creeping around my house at night to investigate noise with my earmuffs on. |
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Posted: 5/13/2004 10:45:18 AM EDT
[#6]
Just kiddin' ya! 
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Posted: 5/13/2004 10:47:06 AM EDT
[#7]
It's called a flash supressor, and even if you don't have a gun with one on it it won't matter for that one shot or two. The noise from shooting in a situation such as a home invasion will not really be noticed in the heat of the moment. Sure your ears may be hurting after the fact, but better the ears hurt than you or a loved one be dead. |
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Posted: 5/13/2004 11:07:14 AM EDT
[#8]
the bad guy won't be any less dead in my house than he will in your house, i guarantee. and if my ears aren't ringing as bad that's great, i'll take every advantage i can get. |
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Posted: 5/13/2004 11:11:59 AM EDT
[#9]
Am I the only one in the world who does not see the point of a pistol caliber carbine? All the weight and size of a rifle with the stopping power and survivability of a handgun round…
Shotgun is a fine choice for home defense, as would be an AR. The best gun to use is the one you practice with. Also consider low light. If you don’t have night sights, laser, weapon mounted light, tactical light, or any combination of the above your not hitting squat past contact distance. Sure, you may have time to turn on a house light, but don’t count on it. |
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Posted: 5/13/2004 11:16:16 AM EDT
[#10]
So you use an AR with a tac light than? A pistol offers no advatage, I'll tell you this for sure. In both home invasions I was around for both ended with no shots fired. The perps were cought in the second one, both were wearing vests. A pistol would have been no good had shot needed to be fired. A shotgun would hve been no good either. I could care less if my ears could be ringing less as long as I'm still breathing and have no holes i me. |
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Posted: 5/13/2004 11:23:23 AM EDT
[#11]
Ruger PC40 (40 S&W) with an Red Dot Scope on it. Shoots great but it always jams when I "get on it."
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Posted: 5/13/2004 11:24:22 AM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 5/13/2004 11:28:19 AM EDT
[#13]
Perps with BA in nothing new, not here. Not anywhere. Not a lot of them have it but some do. By the way I would bet that more entry teams use ARs or other rifles in .223(augs,HK53's ect...) than 9mm sub guns. |
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Posted: 5/13/2004 12:07:38 PM EDT
[#14]
Oh no!  I hope you sleep with a helmet on! Don't you know that Glocks have been known to "KaBoom" just by being kept under a pillow?!? Then the BATFE will be able to use the patented Glock "ballistic fingerprinting" to examine your remains and tell if you've ever lied on a 4473!!!  Sorry - it was getting too serious in here & I couldn't resist. 
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Posted: 5/13/2004 12:17:01 PM EDT
[#15]
No, you're not the only one - I've heard several here make the same comment. What you've got to remember is that most (but not all) handgun rounds benefit from the longer carbine barrel with increased peformance, all with the recoil of a .22 (i.e., more controllable, faster follow-up shots, etc.). Affordable ammo & the "fun factor" will probably lead to more practice, as well. They may not be the best choice, but I dare say they are not the worst. (FWIW, Mrs. HardShell & I keep an AR (mine), a shotgun (hers), and several handguns (ours ) in the bedroom for home defense - not a pistol-caliber carbine.)
Amen.
And amen. 
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Posted: 5/13/2004 12:34:09 PM EDT
[#16]
M1 carbine with Remington 110gr JSP.
This still has some PC look, which reduces your rifle being taken away, and M1 Carbine with above load is quite good. Of course, I'm talking about defense against one or two buglars. If this is larger scale SHTF situation, the AR15 with 7 mags of XM193 or 75+gr OTM hands down. |
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Posted: 5/13/2004 12:48:06 PM EDT
[#17]
Most shotguns can mount a light with a replacement front handguard, I don't see this as any worse than replacement handguards for ARs with integral lights.
So, what you're saying is, the shotgun is not precise because it sprays pellets all over, but it's not easier to hit anything because the pellets don't spread out... got it!!
Well if I ever invade your house I'll make sure to take cover behind some drywall 
I really can't see missing someone at inside-house distances with a shotgun. I can put all the pellets on a man-sized sillouette target at 25 yards and I don't even have the rear sight mounted!! I'm not saying the shotgun is better, but it's not too bad. |
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Posted: 5/13/2004 1:05:06 PM EDT
[#18]
 This is my current home defense carbine normally it has a Surefire mounted to it and will soon be getting an Aimpoint sight. I really like the .45 for defense and with the 16" barrel its not going to deafen you when you shoot. |
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Posted: 5/13/2004 1:09:57 PM EDT
[#19]
Buncha amateurs...
Nothing secures a hallway like a claymore. |
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Posted: 5/13/2004 1:15:51 PM EDT
[#20]
Gentlemen, THIS is a serious option. |
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Posted: 5/13/2004 1:18:41 PM EDT
[#21]
To answer the original question I would take an AR over an AK, for me the superior sights on the AR make all the difference. I have a hard time quickly acquiring AK sights
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Posted: 5/13/2004 1:21:25 PM EDT
[#22]
Nevermind. This is an even more serious option. |
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Posted: 5/13/2004 1:24:47 PM EDT
[#23]
Thompson M1, or 1927.
.45acp, and you can use it as a heavy club if you shoot it dry. It won't break. |
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Posted: 5/13/2004 1:41:36 PM EDT
[#24]
my Ruger PC9 [9mm luger] with Mecgar & factory mags and "Ghost ring" site never jams, no matter how fast I shoot. The Ghost Ring site works great in low light, because of the large aperture. 
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Posted: 5/13/2004 1:43:59 PM EDT
[#25]
Choice #1
 Choice #2  Choice #3 
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Posted: 5/13/2004 1:55:56 PM EDT
[#26]
Rather than an 870, I would go with a Benelli Nova. Similar route...but same result.
Kevin |
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Posted: 5/13/2004 2:16:04 PM EDT
[#27]
Hey SNORMAN,
If you put the TAC/WEAPON light and AIMPOINT on the shotgun, it becomes adequate. It still is not a precision weapon. No way, no how. If your not looking for precision, then the shotgun is the way to go. I demand precision. I want to know where EACH AND EVERY round is going before it leaves the tube.
The point is that they spread out enough to be a danger, but not enough to allow sloppy shooting. AIMED fire is still required at close range with a shotgun. Got it??
Sure you can miss someone. You can miss identify them and at close range with regular shotgun sights you can miss them completely if you don't aim. Again, does the presence of a weapon light and a red-dot sight make it more likely or less likely for you to properly ID the target and place rounds inthe target? If the combo does, then is it easier to mount same on a shotgun or a AR? Then its the precision issue. I'll take my CAR-15. A shotgun, properly equiped, would be a second choice. A pistol or pistol caliber carbnine would be my third choice. |
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Posted: 5/13/2004 3:05:54 PM EDT
[#28]
My home defense gun is the one I can get to in the shortest amount of time. This translates to using MY HANDGUN.
My handgun is not something that's "in a closet," or "in a safe..." I NEVER have to think about "What Gun Would I GO TO" because I'll always have one on my hip, and ready to fire. I won't have to deal with bullshit about running to my closet or safe or whereever, "racking" my "AK" or my "Remmy 870" (Mossbergs are better anyway, IMHO  If it's good enough for the MARINES, it's good enough for me; Besides Remmy's tolerances cause problems) in order to deal with a home related threat.If there's a threat, there's a safe, loaded, and chambered firearm on my hip with a minimum of 14 rds of spare magazines. The threat, however immediate, will be dealt with accordingly. If immediacy or proximity is an issue, there are differing drawing techniques to use. If there is not an immediate threat, but safety may be a concern when holding down the place, gathering a home defense weapon would be beneficial, but not convenient to keep with at all times. In that case, I'd carry my Mossberg 500A 20" with folding stock, 8rd tube, heat shield, side-saddle holder, red-dot scope, sling, and LBE with 99 rds of various kinds of shotgun ammo. This is more than sufficient for home defense, and likely is good for anything within 100 yards. HOWEVER, MOST OF YOU SEEM TO OVERLOOK ONE IMPORTANT ASPECT OF ALL OF THIS: TRAINING! How many of you have taken specifically designed LEO / Tactical Defensive Carbine, or Defensive Shotgun courses from professional institutes such as Front Sight, or Defensive Edge, etc...? They are worth their weight in gold. Professional training will do more for you than which specific type of firearm. That is why my default defensive weapon is a handgun (in tactical & defensive uses). IT IS WHAT I KNOW BEST, as IT IS WHAT I'VE TRAINED WITH THE MOST. If all you have is a .38 SPL or an SKS, that's not an issue, as you'll likely do well with that if that's what you've trained for... |
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Posted: 5/13/2004 3:15:09 PM EDT
[#29]
Until a few days ago I kept my 870 with a flashlight on it next to my bed. Now I'm switching to this:  When I get some more toy money built up in the savings account I'd like to add a good laser to it. Already have an ok flashlight. |
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