User Panel
Posted: 2/24/2021 9:48:44 PM EDT
Not sure I would call it a failure quite yet, but the Air Force may be looking to fire up that money printer
Click here, Comrade |
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The author and I have very different recollections of the JSF program requirements, development, EMD, and the such.
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I went to EAA (20 mins away) and there was a Marine F35 there with a rope around it. Towards the end of the day the pilot walked up to answer questions with his very hot gf/fuck buddy. They talked for a bit a big ol kiss and then he ripped down the runway. Never been so jealous in my life.
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The idea that the air force will ever by another 1,000 single type planes of any kind is akin to thinking the navy will one day have a 600 fleet navy.
Shit's too expensive. |
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Quoted: The idea that the air force will ever by another 1,000 single type planes of any kind is akin to thinking the navy will one day have a 600 fleet navy. Shit's to expensive. View Quote The hovering VTOL shit should have been laughed out of the room. Instead, here we are. |
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One of the first thing Zero did was to cancel the F-22 before we had taken delivery of all of them. They said it was because you didn't need a $120m fighter to fight terrorists. Unlike Shrub, Obama was smart and wise!
A couple month later, Obama was passing though Alaska on a refueling stop, and would be getting off Air Force one to give a speech to the airmen on the joint base. It was winter, so it was going to be in a hanger. The base wanted to show off they were one of the few bases with the state-of-the-art F-22, but the advance people freaked, because the optics of Obama speaking in front of the fighter he canceled would look bad. So they moved the F-22 out and brought in an old F-15c as the backdrop. |
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Maybe we should talk to Sweden.
Attached File https://www.airspacemag.com/military-aviation/smart-fighter-180976751/ |
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Quoted: One of the first thing Zero did was to cancel the F-22 before we had taken delivery of all of them. They said it was because you didn't need a $120m fighter to fight terrorists. Unlike Shrub, Obama was smart and wise! A couple month later, Obama was passing though Alaska on a refueling stop, and would be getting off Air Force one to give a speech to the airmen on the joint base. It was winter, so it was going to be in a hanger. The base wanted to show off they were one of the few bases with the state-of-the-art F-22, but the advance people freaked, because the optics of Obama speaking in front of the fighter he canceled would look bad. So they moved the F-22 out and brought in an old F-15c as the backdrop. View Quote |
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People who speculate about these types of weapons systems have no fucking clue what they are talking about.
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Quoted: The final F-22 tail number more or less a done deal before Obama was even a US Senator. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: One of the first thing Zero did was to cancel the F-22 before we had taken delivery of all of them. They said it was because you didn't need a $120m fighter to fight terrorists. Unlike Shrub, Obama was smart and wise! A couple month later, Obama was passing though Alaska on a refueling stop, and would be getting off Air Force one to give a speech to the airmen on the joint base. It was winter, so it was going to be in a hanger. The base wanted to show off they were one of the few bases with the state-of-the-art F-22, but the advance people freaked, because the optics of Obama speaking in front of the fighter he canceled would look bad. So they moved the F-22 out and brought in an old F-15c as the backdrop. |
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I have a good friend and co-worker who just transitioned from F-16s to F-35s last year. When I asked him what he thought of he said while the F-16 was the slightly better raw performer in terms of dogfighting the F-35 was leaps and bounds better in every other respect (integration of stealth, radar, avionics, weapons, etc) that it wasn't even close and definitely the one he'd go to war in. The damn thing is just too expensive.
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Quoted: ??? I thought he canceled the program before they had all been delivered. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: One of the first thing Zero did was to cancel the F-22 before we had taken delivery of all of them. They said it was because you didn't need a $120m fighter to fight terrorists. Unlike Shrub, Obama was smart and wise! A couple month later, Obama was passing though Alaska on a refueling stop, and would be getting off Air Force one to give a speech to the airmen on the joint base. It was winter, so it was going to be in a hanger. The base wanted to show off they were one of the few bases with the state-of-the-art F-22, but the advance people freaked, because the optics of Obama speaking in front of the fighter he canceled would look bad. So they moved the F-22 out and brought in an old F-15c as the backdrop. The USAF originally envisioned ordering 750 ATFs at a total program cost of $44.3 billion and procurement cost of $26.2 billion in fiscal year (FY) 1985 dollars, with production beginning in 1994. The 1990 Major Aircraft Review led by Secretary of Defense Dick Cheney reduced this to 648 aircraft beginning in 1996. By 1997, funding instability had further cut the total to 339, which was again reduced to 277 by 2003.[27] In 2004, the Department of Defense (DoD) further reduced this to 183 operational aircraft, despite the USAF's preference for 381.[28][29] A multi-year procurement plan was implemented in 2006 to save $15 billion, with total program cost projected to be $62 billion for 183 F-22s distributed to seven combat squadrons.[30] In 2008, Congress passed a defense spending bill that raised the total orders for production aircraft to 187.[31][32] |
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Quoted: ??? I thought he canceled the program before they had all been delivered. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: One of the first thing Zero did was to cancel the F-22 before we had taken delivery of all of them. They said it was because you didn't need a $120m fighter to fight terrorists. Unlike Shrub, Obama was smart and wise! A couple month later, Obama was passing though Alaska on a refueling stop, and would be getting off Air Force one to give a speech to the airmen on the joint base. It was winter, so it was going to be in a hanger. The base wanted to show off they were one of the few bases with the state-of-the-art F-22, but the advance people freaked, because the optics of Obama speaking in front of the fighter he canceled would look bad. So they moved the F-22 out and brought in an old F-15c as the backdrop. |
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Quoted: Too many missions for one platform. The hovering VTOL shit should have been laughed out of the room. Instead, here we are. View Quote That aircraft has enabled nations without CATOBAR to put super-sonic stealth planes on helicopter destroyers. Or...basically wherever else they want to put them. |
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Quoted: People who speculate about these types of weapons systems have no fucking clue what they are talking about. View Quote I absolutely love getting "schooled" on GD on matters of combat airpower from people who have no fucking clue what they're talking about, yet feel that because they play DCS or have a subscription to Aviation Week they can speak on the topics with some authority. |
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Quoted: You are right. They were all delivered, Obama just said he'd veto if Congress tried to buy any more. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: One of the first thing Zero did was to cancel the F-22 before we had taken delivery of all of them. They said it was because you didn't need a $120m fighter to fight terrorists. Unlike Shrub, Obama was smart and wise! A couple month later, Obama was passing though Alaska on a refueling stop, and would be getting off Air Force one to give a speech to the airmen on the joint base. It was winter, so it was going to be in a hanger. The base wanted to show off they were one of the few bases with the state-of-the-art F-22, but the advance people freaked, because the optics of Obama speaking in front of the fighter he canceled would look bad. So they moved the F-22 out and brought in an old F-15c as the backdrop. The USAF originally envisioned ordering 750 ATFs at a total program cost of $44.3 billion and procurement cost of $26.2 billion in fiscal year (FY) 1985 dollars, with production beginning in 1994. The 1990 Major Aircraft Review led by Secretary of Defense Dick Cheney reduced this to 648 aircraft beginning in 1996. By 1997, funding instability had further cut the total to 339, which was again reduced to 277 by 2003.[27] In 2004, the Department of Defense (DoD) further reduced this to 183 operational aircraft, despite the USAF's preference for 381.[28][29] A multi-year procurement plan was implemented in 2006 to save $15 billion, with total program cost projected to be $62 billion for 183 F-22s distributed to seven combat squadrons.[30] In 2008, Congress passed a defense spending bill that raised the total orders for production aircraft to 187.[31][32] |
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Quoted: I have a good friend and co-worker who just transitioned from F-16s to F-35s last year. When I asked him what he thought of he said while the F-16 was the slightly better raw performer in terms of dogfighting the F-35 was leaps and bounds better in every other respect (integration of stealth, radar, avionics, weapons, etc) that it wasn't even close and definitely the one he'd go to war in. The damn thing is just too expensive. View Quote This is exactly the same thing I hear from former bros of mine who left the F-15E to fly the F-35. I have a little experience with it, as I was a test subject when they were doing JSF cockpit development back in the very late 90s, and I have fought F-35s in the F-15E. Although "Fat Amy" certainly doesn't win first place in the swimsuit competition, she excels in the talent competition, especially when compared to just about anything 4th gen. |
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Airforce is just the Army with wings.
They love spending money on bullshit that will never happen They dont want a platform that other branches use |
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The investors like it.
btw: Do they still have to use the special fueling equipment that keeps the fuel refrigerated or whatever? |
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Restart the F-14 production line. Don't talk to me about cost!
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Super Tucano for cheap and light and cas. Could probably also win in dogfighting a helo or Cessna 172.
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Quoted: This is exactly the same thing I hear from former bros of mine who left the F-15E to fly the F-35. I have a little experience with it, as I was a test subject when they were doing JSF cockpit development back in the very late 90s, and I have fought F-35s in the F-15E. Although "Fat Amy" certainly doesn't win first place in the swimsuit competition, she excels in the talent competition, especially when compared to just about anything 4th gen. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: I have a good friend and co-worker who just transitioned from F-16s to F-35s last year. When I asked him what he thought of he said while the F-16 was the slightly better raw performer in terms of dogfighting the F-35 was leaps and bounds better in every other respect (integration of stealth, radar, avionics, weapons, etc) that it wasn't even close and definitely the one he'd go to war in. The damn thing is just too expensive. This is exactly the same thing I hear from former bros of mine who left the F-15E to fly the F-35. I have a little experience with it, as I was a test subject when they were doing JSF cockpit development back in the very late 90s, and I have fought F-35s in the F-15E. Although "Fat Amy" certainly doesn't win first place in the swimsuit competition, she excels in the talent competition, especially when compared to just about anything 4th gen. That's a great way to put it. He's heard similar remarks from others.. former F-15s, F-16s, and F-18 pilots. From an fusion perspective they're just barely scratching the surface on what the plane is capable of and the more combat sorties it sees the more they all collectively learn. While I think the design is hampered by the VSTOL requirement.. I can only imagine what it's like transitioning from an AV-8B to an F-35, must be a new universe for those guys |
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Quoted: One of the first thing Zero did was to cancel the F-22 before we had taken delivery of all of them. They said it was because you didn't need a $120m fighter to fight terrorists. Unlike Shrub, Obama was smart and wise! A couple month later, Obama was passing though Alaska on a refueling stop, and would be getting off Air Force one to give a speech to the airmen on the joint base. It was winter, so it was going to be in a hanger. The base wanted to show off they were one of the few bases with the state-of-the-art F-22, but the advance people freaked, because the optics of Obama speaking in front of the fighter he canceled would look bad. So they moved the F-22 out and brought in an old F-15c as the backdrop. View Quote Lockheed has preserved all F-22 tooling and could immediately resume production if orders are sent. |
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Quoted: Lockheed has preserved all F-22 tooling and could immediately resume production if orders are sent. View Quote That's not at all true. Lockheed has admitted that they don't have the equipment or technical expertise to start production again. A lot of the people who designed and produced the aircraft are retired now.. |
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Quoted: Maybe we should talk to Sweden. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/6163/DSC0437-1024x683_jpg-1840141.JPG https://www.airspacemag.com/military-aviation/smart-fighter-180976751/ View Quote There's a very good reason why we got rid of the round parts of the plane. Modern digital radar operators will love this 50 year old design! I bet it has antique license plates. |
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Quoted: Lockheed has preserved all F-22 tooling and could immediately resume production if orders are sent. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: One of the first thing Zero did was to cancel the F-22 before we had taken delivery of all of them. They said it was because you didn't need a $120m fighter to fight terrorists. Unlike Shrub, Obama was smart and wise! A couple month later, Obama was passing though Alaska on a refueling stop, and would be getting off Air Force one to give a speech to the airmen on the joint base. It was winter, so it was going to be in a hanger. The base wanted to show off they were one of the few bases with the state-of-the-art F-22, but the advance people freaked, because the optics of Obama speaking in front of the fighter he canceled would look bad. So they moved the F-22 out and brought in an old F-15c as the backdrop. Lockheed has preserved all F-22 tooling and could immediately resume production if orders are sent. |
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Quoted: That's not at all true. Lockheed has admitted that they don't have the equipment or technical expertise to start production again. A lot of the people who designed and produced the aircraft are retired now.. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Lockheed has preserved all F-22 tooling and could immediately resume production if orders are sent. That's not at all true. Lockheed has admitted that they don't have the equipment or technical expertise to start production again. A lot of the people who designed and produced the aircraft are retired now.. |
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How many anti-white supremacy leaflets can it deliver per second? That is the true measure of a successful platform.
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Quoted: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/485889/971272F3-FBD0-4626-B842-59A886B8CC3D_jpe-1840152.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/485889/4BCD173F-AD72-4224-8F4B-0C5B13E8930E_jpe-1840154.JPG View Quote Wonder what’s in those bulges on the wing. |
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By the time you pay for new R&D for a new airframe, and stuff it with the same wizbang electronics that you already use in the F-35, it will end up being more expensive than just buying more F-35s.
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Quoted: Wonder what’s in those bulges on the wing. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Wonder what’s in those bulges on the wing. |
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Quoted: Electrohydraulics. Might not sound like much, but the F-35 has a radically different hydraulic system compared to its predecessors. The F-35 follows MEA, More Electric Aircraft concept. Instead of having a centralized duplex hydraulic system of pressurized lines, it utilizes a federated system of electrohydraulics that don't have interconnected hydraulic lines. View Quote So are the bulges space for the hydraulic pumps? |
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Quoted: Too many missions for one platform. The hovering VTOL shit should have been laughed out of the room. Instead, here we are. View Quote You realize that being able to do stuff while hovering in midair isn't the point of VTOL, right? I know Call of Duty 4 had that Harrier killstreak where the jet shoots at people while hovering in place, but that's not what VTOL is actually for in real life. The point is to be able to operate the aircraft from platforms where you don't have a long enough runway to take off and land conventionally. Japan is operating F-35s from ships that were originally designed just for helicopters and don't even have runways. |
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Quoted: So are the bulges space for the hydraulic pumps? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Electrohydraulics. Might not sound like much, but the F-35 has a radically different hydraulic system compared to its predecessors. The F-35 follows MEA, More Electric Aircraft concept. Instead of having a centralized duplex hydraulic system of pressurized lines, it utilizes a federated system of electrohydraulics that don't have interconnected hydraulic lines. So are the bulges space for the hydraulic pumps? |
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Quoted: You realize that being able to do stuff while hovering in midair isn't the point of VTOL, right? I know Call of Duty 4 had that Harrier killstreak where the jet shoots at people while hovering in place, but that's not what VTOL is actually for in real life. The point is to be able to operate the aircraft from platforms where you don't have a long enough runway to take off and land conventionally. Japan is operating F-35s from ships that were originally designed just for helicopters and don't even have runways. View Quote And don't forget the HMS Queen Elizabeth carrying 60 of them. |
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