Do a search for a thread that Grin had going last month titled How much does it cost and you will find several opinions,including some that say if it is costing $2-3000 per month to run a site you got more money than brains.I am just reporting what was said,not agreeing with the contents [;)]

For those not familiar with what it takes to run a site, I'll summarize and simplify...

1) Things can vary GREATLY- depending on the type of service, bandwidth, support, who does the work (you or do you outsource?), etc. Costs can vary from free to many thousands and even $100,000 per month. Lucky for us, our hobby site requirements fall somewhere in the middle...

So, the required pieces are:

1) Hosting/ISP
This is the company that provides the Internet connection for the servers. There are many types of hosting including putting the web site on the ISP's (Internet Service Provider) shared server, co-locating (our servers, their location), and getting a private line (big pipe right to our facility). Price generally goes up in that order, but the other factor is bandwidth (how big/fast a pipe).

- Shared Server
AR15.com would sit on a big server with several other sites. All resources are shared accross the site, so expenses can be kept down. This is the cheapest solution. Often you see ads for Hosting: $24.95/month! or some such deal. However, this only works for very simple sites. Many times you have no control over the database, versions of software, disk space limitations, etc. This is suitable for many small sites, but not something as complex as AR15.com

- Co-located
This is where the servers are actually located right at the ISPs offices. This means we can share the fast connections that the ISP pays for, and they provide us with space on their network. This allows us to use multiple servers, upgrade hardware when necessary, etc. but all maintenance, backups, software, etc. is our responsibility.

- Dedicated pipe
This is basically a connection run to our office. Getting a connection as fast as the ISP has is VERY expensive, and in addition you need additional hardware to accomodate it. This includes CSU, router, firewall(s), etc.

(part 2)

There are tradeoffs with all of the above. Generally, the more money you pay, the faster the connection you get. This service is paid for every month, and can vary from a few $ for a colocated solution to several thousand for a fast co-locate or dedicated connection. We used to pay $1200/month for AR15.com but could not afford to maintain this so I had to move to a "slower" connection elsewhere. (and we're still searching for alternatives). Right now we co-locate about an hour away (fro cost reasons) and AR15.com consists of 4 servers. (web, db, chat, mail)

For sites that are developed by the owners, the hosting presents the biggest expense. Every month, you have to pay your ISP. In addition, some places charge depending on how much data is transmitted- the more successful the site, the more you use, and thus the more you pay.

2) Servers
Very simple- these are the PCs that run the site. As far as expenses go, these are the second most costly for AR15.com. We need high-powered servers with lots of disk and memory. (example- DB server is a dual Pentium 1GHz with 2 Wide-SCSI 10K rpm drives anf 1 GB of RAM)

Once the PCs are purchased, there is no recurring monthly charges.

3) Development
For a site that outsources development, this would be by far the biggest expense. This is why sites can cost millions to develop. Lucky for AR15.com, two of the owners are web developers by day. However, even though we don't charge for our time, it is a time-consuming process and takes us away from money-generating work that pays our bills.

4) Maintenance
This is relatively small, but includes upgrading hardware, supporting the software, backup process, and ???

So, yes- it is very possible to spend $3K per month without counting development and servers. If you try to factor those two in, the cost of running AR15.com is probably well over $10,000/month. As Ripley used to say: "Believe it or not".

Mr. Avila, my gratitude to you for this wonderful forum.  I have been curious about what you just explained as I know little more than how to turn a computer on and type (barely).  I have heard of a "server fund" mentioned.  Other than buying a few shirts I have contributed nothing as I don't know how.  Please let me know how to at least pay something, as this is very valuable to me for the info/contact with like-minded others.  Thanks again for all you do!!

Well said, my thoughts exactly.  I think most conservative gun owners expect to pay their way.  Again, THANKS to those who provide this!

I think a member's only forum would be nice but also feel that the pubic needs to get their information for free so some of each.

How about an nice picture under your name with paid annual membership.

AR15.com Inc.?

Say,didn't I read a post by you sometime ago at AK-47.net stating that when the server went down you slipped out the backdoor.... and were never coming back? [:O]

This is what the stats for my site looked like last May.

[url]http://www.dvdtracker.com/webstats/2000_05.html[/url]

Ever since I started charging for my site, usage is at about a tenth of what it used to be, but it's paying for itself now.

I snuck on here for a few minutes and figured I would say a few things...

And dont worry I am BUSY trying to complete the rebuild of AR15.Com in order to continue to improve things, as well as to create a mechanism for the new TOYS!!!



The truth is we're trying NOT to track the exact amount we spend as the wives would instigate some sort of illegal punishment. The simple truth is new servers cost money (and we're talking servers, not desktops), development costs money (keeps us from paying jobs), software costs money (OS, DB, Mail Servers, etc), and finally Bandwith/ISP costs money. This last one is the killer. Locally we would end up paying 5x what we pay now for the same speed, and the sad thing is the speed is not adequate as it is... We're looking both locally and within a 1hr radius for better ISP for those who were unaware.



First off a server or two will run you in the area of $6k-$10k (no desktop pc will handle this kind of traffic) then your basic T1 costs range from $600 (less depending where you live) to $1000 a month. And a T1 can handle your basic sites, but high traffic will cause you to continually look for upgrades to hardware AND your pipe.

Now if you are talking about hosting a small family website, your setup sounds fine. Even a light traffic interest site would be ok.



This site will NEVER be a pay to use site. We dont think that helps anyone. What we do see is a sponsorship/membership site where added functionality and tools are at the disposal of paying members. This is something we're discussing, but until a number of things are completed, it's not going to happen.

We've been here for a long time and we've taken the costs as they've come. As the site has grown, we've tried to grow with it by putting money into the most needed aspects. (Forums are the killer, by FAR!) The ads were nice when they were here, as they helped defer some of the costs, but most ad companies WILL NOT allow their ads (paid of course) to be displayed on GUN SITES.

Finally, many of you ask WHY??? It's simple. We enjoy working on this site and interacting with everyone and we have a desire to give to a community which is so helpful to others. Think about it, all we are doing is providing the mechanism for everyone here to be able to share their knowledge and help those they can.

Just my $.02

-- GB