Report it to csb, if  you have a plate, they will investigate and determine if further needs done.

Mind my own business.

You saw nothing, you [red]KNOW[/red] nothing for sure.

Everything is speculation.

Let it go.

Tell the story to the cops and also whatever social worker system you have there.

I woulda looked in the truck.

Since you didn't look in the truck you can't be sure of what you saw. Unless you actually saw him hit the child it wouldn't hold up to legal scrutiny....I would have found an excuse to strike up a converstion and get a look in the truck. Then again, I wasn't there so that's easy for me to say...

That's a tough one. I see both sides. You really don't have proof of anything. And what you think you saw might night be anything. And yet, you want to nail some bastard who would beat his kids and keep him from doing it more. And we'll all heard the stories about people having their kids snatched by Social Services basically without a trial. Guilty until proven innocent.

I had an incident recently where I tried to help a female victim of domestic abuse. I was flying down the highway and there was little cute 20-something chick picking up papers on the other side of the road from her SUV. I was going to drive on thru, but she flagged me down and told me her guy friend in the passenger seat had hit her. I could see the blood on her mouth. She was shook up. I asked her if she wanted me to go over and talk to him, but she just wanted me to follow her to the next town and make sure he got out at a bus stop (we were in the middle of a 25-mile desert area). I told her to STICK WITH THE PLAN and not let this SOB talk her out of it. Well... as you can imagine, she took off in her SUV up a steep dirt road. I couldn't follow her in my minivan (full of my family). So I drove to the nearest place I could use my cell phone and notified police. Problem was, neither my wife nor I was able to get the license plate before they took off. So all I had was a vehicle description. That event haunted me and pissed me off for quite a while. My pistol was in the van, where I told my wife to have it ready if I had ended up talking to the guy and he tried something. So I wish I would have made him get out with all his bags in the desert and maybe that little hitch hike in the heat would have taken some of his fight out. They were moving from Seattle to the Chicago area, so it's not like he could have easily tracked her down an got revenge. I feel like I was not the best help I could have been.  

My licensure would have required me to report it which I guess saves me the problem of wondering what to do. If I was in your shoes I would at least let the authorities know and let them investigate and decide if anything is going on or not.

Unless your sure you should let it go!!!
I have seen some of these "case workers" ruin peoples lives over nothing.
I'm sure they are not all like that but I have seen enough to know you don't want them involved if you can avoid it!!!
Its almost as if they have to justify there position to keep there job (JUST LIKE MANY INVESTIGATORS)

Call Child Protective Services and tell them what you told us. They will investigate.

[ROFL2]

Yeah, they'll get to the bottom of it. [rolleyes]
AB

911.

Let THEM handle it.  

CJ

REPORT ANY AND ALL ABUSE YOU SEE!

Coming from a child who was abused, I wish the few people who know about it when it was happening to me would have reported it.

It may have not gone on fort as long as it did.

I dont like sharing personal stuff with you guy son this board much, since many of you like to throw crap like that back in other's faces.

But I think this is important.

You missed your chance. If you thought someone was beating a child and stood by- you fucked up.

Now you feel guilty about being a pussy and you're going to risk fucking up someone life by making a half assed accusation.

Why not throw in a rape charge or molestation while you're at it.... you wanna cover all your bases.

next time-- just walk the fuck up there!!!

"hey - I think your tire's low"
" excuse me- do you know what time it is???"
" did you just buy this truck?? I was thinking about getting one".....

(A) If you're right, you might save a child from abuse.

(B) If you're wrong, you might put an adult through a lot of hassle.




Stopping (A) is more important than (B).  If he was "pounding/beating" a child, he needs to be stopped. CPS will check for bruises and if there are any, he'll have some explaining to do.  If there aren't any, he'll get pissed but he'll get over it.

Speculation? Bullshit. What you witnessed is highly suspect and deserves to be reported. Deperately. Your not saying someone beat their kid for certain. But when a police officer investigates, he'll check for injuries and then take the appropriate action.

My job requires me to report "suspicion" of child abuse. Merely suspicion is required, not cold hard eyewitesseing of the event with corrollary evidence, but suspicion. Hence the name of the New York State reporting form, Suspected Case of Abuse/Maltreatment(SCAM). They changed it from SCAR, Suspected Case of Abuse Report. I liked that name better, more in keeping of the aftermath of child abuse.


I've been to the houses with no food in the fridge, taken a kid out of a crib who had on the same diaper for two days. Bruises, whippping wounds, burns from cigars, cigarettes. Once the neighbor said they knew about it but "a man's family is his business."

I took a 8 month old little infant to the hospital whose father, holing the baby's legs slammed him into the wall over and over because the baby wouldn't stop crying. He told us the baby fell off the couch. The baby had radiating skull fractures, hemorrhaging in the brain and black swollen eyes. The couch....right. And the officers had to notify his wife in the hospital across the steet that her baby was about to die by her husband's hand. She was there because she was three months pregnant and was having a myriad of medical problems with her pregnancy.


What's next, sit idly by while you think maybe you saw someone get stabbed?

Get real.

I'm sure the child would just love to see all of you with your hands in your pockets minding your own business.

You should have looked at the child.  If the dad didn't beat the kid he would probably just cuss you out, if he hit the kid a fight could happen.  If there was a fight, remember, getting a beating is worth saving a childs future.  Now its to late, never accuse unless your 100% sure.

ABSOLUTLY YOU SHOULD HAVE WALKED UP TO THE GUY AND SAID SOMETHING. NOTHING WORSE IN THE WORLD THAN HITTING A CHILD. THEY ARE TOTALLY DEFENSELESS.

thats a REALLY tough call. I would probobly looked a little harder. If i had no conclusive proof i'd keep my mouth shut. Calling in Social services is never a good thing. they will go out of their way to bust up a family regardless of circumstance and make life a living hell for the family in general.

If it's an abusive situation then yes it is a good thing. Not everything is abuse.

mike

Yeah while this guy's kids are carted off to foster care, during the investigation.



Oh, I see you don't need evidence that a crime has been committed anymore. Sound's like a JBT to me.



Great, like I said just run anybody you feel like in on a hunch. Maybe they cut you off in traffic on a really bad PMS day eh? Jimminey Christmas did you read your own post? Sounds like a communist country to me.



I'm beginning to believe this whole post is sarcasm, please tell me it is. Please.... SCAM yeah that's what it is allright.



Yeah, as in this is what your department's tactics leave on everyone involved with your investigation. SCAR, yes I see how you would like that one better.



blah, blah, blah, blah certainly all terrible atrocities, but none of it is based on what 1GUNRUNNER SAW the guy in the truck at the gas station actually doing to his kids. 1GUNRUNNER [red]SAW[/red]nothing really.



Thank you for your service to this child, really I mean it. Why don't you stick to this, it seems you're good at it. Leave the investigating to somebody else.



No, if I actually SEE a knife, I'll determine the best course of action and respond. What's next with your scenario, the CPS getting calls from EVERYWHERE for a child getting spanked (rightfully so) in the grocery store.



Wake up!



I'm sure that the child would love to see his innocent father dragged away in cuffs, spend weeks in foster care, miss school, miss his mom and dad, get traumatized by psychologist, psychiatrist etc all because you THOUGHT you saw SOMETHING.



[red]"911, what is your emergency?"[/red]

[blue]"I need the police to come to 123 Oak Drive in Anytown, Ohio, I saw a man entering the house with a machine gun."[/blue]

[red]"Sir did you say you saw a man armed with a machine gun?"[/red]

[blue]"Yes mamn, it was my neighbor sherm8404, he must have lost it or something, he entered his house yelling about something with a machine gun and it had a huge magazine attached to it. He seemed very agitated. I'm sure he's going to shoot his family."[/blue]

[red]"We'll have officers there shortly sir, would you stay on the line with me?"[/red]


Sherm8404, is this sort of what you had in mind?

[hypothetical]I remember you walking into your house that day, seems you were really excited about getting a good score in the three gun match you entered. You were yelling and waving your arms about. I guess this caller misunderstood you emotion of excitement for anger. Sorry you got arrested, your house searched, your guns confiscated, your family traumatized, your DOG shot........

you do accept my apology don't you? [/hypothetical]

1GUNRUNNER didn't actually see anything illegal happen. Since he failed to figure out an excuse to approach the truck and take a peek inside he's completely unsure of anything.

Did you ever think the guy might have pinched his finger on the gas pump nozzle and was pissed about it and just banging away on the bench seat?

Sure, he could have been hitting a child, COULD have been.

But are you willing to have a GOVERNMENT agency be called to the guy's house and have his kids taken from him and put in a foster home while the situation is investigated?

Are you really? On a feeling? On a hunch?

I certainly hope you have discrete carrying bags for your AR's.

[rolleyes]

What he said! [b]Exactly[/b] what he said!





[devil]

Make sure if you report it you are 1000% sure.

If this guy has a past, it may not be on any doj list, but will be on a CPS database.

If you get social workers involved on pure speculation, they may be overzealous and put his kid/kids in a foster home.He will have to go through every damn hoop to get them back if he did anything at all.Social workers, especially nowadays after all the deaths in foster care, will side with caution and remove the kids if even a hint of abuse is present.

What you may not see as abuse ie, paddling, a smack on the rear, etc, THEY WILL!

It's one big huge bureucratic nightmare.

Do you know how bad foster homes are?

I have volunteered with foster kids and let me tell you...they are f'ed up bad and for the most part and FULL of hate.

The kid will be psychologically messed up for life.

My Dad used to give me a good buttkicking when I deserved it and now that would probably be contsrued as abuse, but I didn't turn out bad IMO.

70% of the prison population in most states have been in some form of foster home over the course of their lives.

Report it.
There is really nothing much more to say.

I would NOT report it, because I didn't see anything conclusive.

I have spanked my children in the car before, because of their blatant, willful disobedience of safety rules-- like charging across a street without me when they were younger.  One time, my oldest opened the door while driving.  Do you think I DIDN'T administer some immediate feedback on how dangerous that was? Another time it was for unbuckling themselves from their booster seats when they should have been buckled up, which may have very well been the case here.

And I quote:


Especially if the dad didn't seem to be upset, it may be he was trying to instill some discipline (that is NOT the same as child abuse) in a child that refused to obey.

When bottoms are not available because the child knows he is going to be spanked, I have on occasion gotten a thigh or calf.  The point is, I can reasonably construct a scenario where the dad was perfectly in his rights to do the actions you saw, yet did not violate any child abuse laws.

So, unless you want to completely ruin a family on little to no SOLID information, I say do not report it.  

As a homeschooler, I am constantly under the threat of some neighbor not liking the fact that my kids are home all day, and calling CPS with an anonymous tip.  There are numerous court cases of families getting ruined--absolutely devastated, like Dad in jail, kids in foster care, mom left to pay tens of thousands of dollars in lawyers fees, all based on an anonymous tip.  Do you want to be the guy responsible for that possibility?

Nope, unless I witnessed three things-- A) blood, B) Dad visibly upset, and/or C) screams of [b]terror[/b] (NOT screams of anger, tantrums, or sorrow, and anyone who's ever had kids knows there's a difference) I wouldn't report it.

Edited to add:  And, if I was in a gas station, and somebody was eyeballing me, my truck, and my kids the way you were apparently eyeballing him, I'd be keeping an eye on you too--not because I'm worried about you "calling me in", but because I would think of you as a possible goblin scoping me and my truck out.

This looks like the real deal , but make sure you got it right. My children 2 & 4 were playing "bouncy,bouncy" in the rocker recliner of all things (of course thier oppressive parents told them not to do it repeatedly)& thier heads came together. My 4 yo. girl had the biggest black eye I had ever seen, it just looked bad. Upon going to daycare the venomous fucking nazi left wing bitch's asked what was had happened. They were told , as soon as I left they called CPS & I was fucked. My wife & I were guilty & were told to bring our kids to the cps center ( I'm @ work telling my crying wife to have them come to the house so they can suck my ass)WTF !!!    We were guilty until proved innocent & even though everything is cleared up we still have a black mark on "our record". Now how the fuck does that work here in America ? Anyone that abuses a child should be strung the fuck up !!!! Let's just be sure for we get a rope. Sorry gents, that one got to me w/ a quickness.

              .........Paul

You are not sure and it's too late.
Carry on.

The CPS NIGHTMARE NAZI'S struck a part of my extended family because of something similar to the above story.
The parents did NOTHING to the kid.  The kid FELL.
All hell broke loose and totally screwed up their family for a very long time...

...'for the children' ISN'T sometimes.  
It was in their worst interest by the agency that claims the exact opposite.

Be very careful with an accusation like this.
Unless you want to be vindictive as hell.  

Heaven forbid that anyone should discipline THEIR bratty ass kids anymore!

No just let them run wild through society and fucking up everyone elses life!... Give me a breake, sounds like what MORE of todays fathers should be doing!!

This is discipline?
"As I am rolling ahead I can see he is pounding/beating on something with a downward motion with his arms."

Hopefully he was just softening up a pillow or something.

Key word here is [red]something[/red], nobody is sure about anything.

I was thinking about the gun analogy too....

You neighbor calls [b]your[/b] ass in because they see you with a couple of AR's and some ammo cans.
You don't mind if they just come in and inspect your guns do you?? They mey need to put the guns in protective custiody while they play with them. Opps- I mean " examine them thoroughly"

And if CPS came yto my house....could get ugly.

haven't you ever seen King of the Hill???

That may be an unsettling way to settle this, but I think it is the correct one.
Your LEO Buddy is clear that you're not clear on what you saw.  
Tough call.  Good choice.

I second the tough call- good choice call.
But you know what to do next time!!!

Before I even get into the specifics of your post, I got to say I'm kind of taken aback by you tone and aggression towards me, seeing as how you've never met me. I always considered you one of the more level headed posters here and a pretty good guy. I thought you'd be a guy I'd be happy to meet at a shoot. Now, I'm reconsidering. I get the sense someone pissed in you Wheaties the way you come out at me. I merely stated fact in my post. Tried, tested and from personal experience, simply facts.

And accusing me of being the type of person who would lie, and concoct a story to make someone lose a family is unconscianable.

blah, blah, blah, blah certainly all terrible atrocities, but none of it is based on what 1GUNRUNNER SAW the guy in the truck at the gas station actually doing to his kids. 1GUNRUNNER [red]SAW[/red]nothing really.

[green]If you would kindly peruse to page 1 and reread my post you'll notice I said suspicion is enough. What 1GUNRUNNER saw would lead one to draw an inference that someone in the car is not being given a hug or a pat on the back. Seeing a hand flying back and forth and a vehicle shaking to and fro and a child moving about the vehicle strikes me as a little overboard for disciplining a small child. He used the words "pounding" and "beating" in the same sentence. Again, if you believe a child should be "pounded" or "beaten" maybe that explains the tone of your post.[/green]



Thank you for your service to this child, really I mean it. Why don't you stick to this, it seems you're good at it. Leave the investigating to somebody else.

[green]I do. The cops investigate. I'm merely a court mandated reporter of suspected child abuse, along with doctors, nurses, physician's assistants, social workers, psychologists, counselors, teachers and peace officers. I can assure you that when I do prepare a SCAM report, that it's done accurately and truthfully as my job requires it to be.[/green]



No, if I actually SEE a knife, I'll determine the best course of action and respond. What's next with your scenario, the CPS getting calls from EVERYWHERE for a child getting spanked (rightfully so) in the grocery store.

[green]I'll swat my kid's butt in the grocery store if he's out of line. But as I said before "pounding" and "beating" seem a bit to excessive for my kid's upbringing. My it's good for your kids, or was good for you as a child but not mine. [/green]



Wake up!

[green]I'm up. I've been in the EMS line of work for 14 years and seen quite a bit of child abuse. Both overt, like burns(immersion, like when a parent intentionally dips their child into scalding water to "teach them a lesson",) broken bones, whipping, children beaten to death, starved, and dare I say worse? Have you seen much abuse? I've had my fill.[/green]




I'm sure that the child would love to see his innocent father dragged away in cuffs, spend weeks in foster care, miss school, miss his mom and dad, get traumatized by psychologist, psychiatrist etc all because you THOUGHT you saw SOMETHING.

[green]If daddy's done nothing, and there's no abuse, then there's nothing to fear. Unless he cut me off like you suggested. No one gets "dragged away." If there's an actual threat/abuse situation the cops don't lock anyone up on my say so. They do it pursuant to their own investigation. My SCAM report is mailed to the state and reaches then long after the abuser has been arraigned.[/green]


[red]"911, what is your emergency?"[/red]

[blue]"I need the police to come to 123 Oak Drive in Anytown, Ohio, I saw a man entering the house with a machine gun."[/blue]

[red]"Sir did you say you saw a man armed with a machine gun?"[/red]

[blue]"Yes mamn, it was my neighbor sherm8404, he must have lost it or something, he entered his house yelling about something with a machine gun and it had a huge magazine attached to it. He seemed very agitated. I'm sure he's going to shoot his family."[/blue]

[red]"We'll have officers there shortly sir, would you stay on the line with me?"[/red]


Sherm8404, is this sort of what you had in mind?

[green]Uh, no. Nice whack senario though. Who runs around with a loaded, mag-in-well gun anyways. MIne are cased when I leave the range. Your projection of DUish paranoia is laughable at best, but poor for the sake of your weak argument.[/green]

[hypothetical]I remember you walking into your house that day, seems you were really excited about getting a good score in the three gun match you entered. You were yelling and waving your arms about. I guess this caller misunderstood you emotion of excitement for anger. Sorry you got arrested, your house searched, your guns confiscated, your family traumatized, your DOG shot........

you do accept my apology don't you? [/hypothetical]

[green]If I saw BVMjethead enter a house yelling and then subsequently hearing screaming and shooting I'd call 911. But that's about it. Maybe you forgot you're on a pro gun website, I'd like to see more people carrying guns these days.


[/green]

1GUNRUNNER didn't actually see anything illegal happen. Since he failed to figure out an excuse to approach the truck and take a peek inside he's completely unsure of anything.

Did you ever think the guy might have pinched his finger on the gas pump nozzle and was pissed about it and just banging away on the bench seat?

[green]1GUNRUNNER posted what he saw. He never mention a pinched finger. Who'd bang a gas stained finger on a bench seat. That's a pretty bizzare rationalization of the events on your part. I believe they call that "stretching it."

So just for the sake of posing a reverse hypothetical....

You're in your car in front of the Circle K / Gas 'N' Sip/ 7-11. You see a car pull up, two males pull on ski masks and just prior to entry one produces a small .38 cal revolver. They enter, but your view of the clerk is now completely obscured by a large magazine rack. According to you, I guess they aren't robbing the place. Nor should anyone place a call to the local popo because you have no proof that there is actually a robbery occuring. Put the car in drive and head home with a clear consciense and sleep well citizen. You've done your job for the day.
[/green]

Sure, he could have been hitting a child, COULD have been.

[green]
They could have been robbing the 7-11, COULD have been.

Most likely the guy was hitting his kid, based on the events as recounted by 1GUNRUNNER, and it seemed good enough for me to call the cops. And it was good enough for Target to call the cops over the video taped beating of a child by Madelyne Toogood in front of a Target store last year. You can watch her hitting her 4 year old here. Well you actually never see her hit the kid, her body obscures the child but there's no doubt as to what's occuring in the car. When the police INVESTIGATED, they found a child without injuries. But the beating captured on videotape certainly warranted a look to make sure the kid was OK. And the child was never put in a foster home, she was taken to her grandmother. Which is what happens in many CPS cases.

[url]http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/20/national/main522684.shtml[/url]

Maybe you'll catch yourself turning an unconcerned eye in the backround "cuz you didn't see nuthin."
[/green]

But are you willing to have a GOVERNMENT agency be called to the guy's house and have his kids taken from him and put in a foster home while the situation is investigated?

[green]If I see an abused , or suspect it's occuring? Hell yeah.[/green]

Are you really? On a feeling? On a hunch?

[green]On suspicion(State mandated suspicion).[/green]

I certainly hope you have discrete carrying bags for your AR's.

[rolleyes][/quote]

[green]I guess if you're in the neighborhood I'll have to.[/green]