User Panel
Posted: 12/16/2003 4:35:40 AM EDT
Well boys and girls, today our conservative Republican President is planning to sign the "American Dream Down Payment Act" into law. "Why Jarhead," you might say, "The American Dream sounds like a good thing, something any conservative Republican can get behind!"
The American Dream is success through hard work, but this American Dream is going to steal your money and mine to provide down payments and closing costs to "minorities" --however they're being defined today-- who otherwise wouldn't be able to afford to buy a home. This bill has everything that conservative Republicans can get behind: It's race-based, and punishes white people for being white. It punishes them by taking their money and giving it to other people who are chosen to receive the white people's money because they are not white. Let's hear it for wealth redistribution and race-based social programs everyone! Yaaaaaaay! |
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It's sad, but the only way to get votes anymore is with handouts. The Dems learned it long ago. Now the Reps are on the handout bandwagon.
That's the only thing behind bills like this one and the prescription handout bill. |
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Quoted: Well boys and girls, today our conservative Republican President is planning to sign the "American Dream Down Payment Act" into law. "Why Jarhead," you might say, "The American Dream sounds like a good thing, something any conservative Republican can get behind!" The American Dream is success through hard work, but this American Dream is going to steal your money and mine to provide down payments and closing costs to "minorities" --however they're being defined today-- who otherwise wouldn't be able to afford to buy a home. This bill has everything that conservative Republicans can get behind: It's race-based, and punishes white people for being white. It punishes them by taking their money and giving it to other people who are chosen to receive the white people's money because they are not white. Let's hear it for wealth redistribution and race-based social programs everyone! Yaaaaaaay! View Quote Ok.... Vote Tweedely-dee!! [<]:)] Btw, I thought the US [b]won[/b] the "war on communism"???? Maybe the communists won, took over Reagans party, and forgot to tell us?? [:P] Hopefully we'll do better in the "terror" war, 'cause if we don't we'll all be wearing rags on our heads, in twenty years!!! [devil] |
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Quoted: Hopefully we'll do better in the "terror" war, 'cause if we don't we'll all be wearing rags on our heads, in twenty years!!! View Quote As long as certain elements in this administration are in bed with the al Saud, that's a possibility too. |
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I think I am not voting for him. I really do think that I have been betrayed. We really need a revolution.
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Poor = can't yet afford a house. Only has one car, TV/VCR or computer. Does not have access to the internet. Does not have high speed cable modem (or whatever is the newest whiz bang crap). Can't afford private school for the hellspawns. Can't afford to buy their way into Harvard.
Remember when poor meant that if you had a bad growing season, you wouldn't be able to feed your family? Remember when poor meant you didn't have electricity or running water? Times change, it appears. |
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[url]www.kccall.com/news/2003/1010/KCK_Community/001.html[/url]
[puke] |
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Recognizing that the government alone cannot achieve this goal, the President called on the real estate, mortgage finance and homebuilding industries to join the Administration in our commitment to increasing homeownership rates for all Americans, but especially for minorities. View Quote I just thought of something. I guess nobody has ever thought of this before. I could afford a new home if it weren't for the taxes I constantly pay! What a novel idea: allow people to save their own money. |
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i am in no way supporting this particular issue but i am concerned about the general effects of globalization and the decline of the middle-class. i believe if the republican party is to continue to dominate our political process and preserve traditional american values it must maintain a large and prosperous middle class. if the divide between the rich and poor continues to grow it will ultimately result in the return of the democrats and their extremist policies.
michael dell is reportedly worth 15 billion dollars yet he is leading a destructive price war that is hurting small and medium businesses and leading the outsourcing of our jobs and technology to foreign countries. if large corporations will not invest in their country and countrymen i support an active role by the government to reverse the re-distribution of wealth from the middle-class to the wealthy and i support the republican party and the president in doing so... if you disagree with this particular bill what alternatives would you suggest to strengthen and preserve the american middle-class in a non-socialistic manner? |
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Quoted: i am in no way supporting this particular issue but i am concerned about the general effects of globalization and the decline of the middle-class. i believe if the republican party is to continue to dominate our political process and preserve traditional american values it must maintain a large and prosperous middle class. if the divide between the rich and poor continues to grow it will ultimately result in the return of the democrats and their extremist policies. View Quote What divide are you talking about? |
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Quoted: ... [i]Somebody[/i] has to pay... View Quote 'Making a profit is greed!' 'It's not my fault, I never had a chance!' 'There ought to be a law!' Who is John Galt? [:)] D(WaitingToVanishAndBecomeAPirate!!)Peacher |
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Quoted: i am in no way supporting this particular issue but i am concerned about the general effects of globalization and the decline of the middle-class. i believe if the republican party is to continue to dominate our political process and preserve traditional american values it must maintain a large and prosperous middle class. if the divide between the rich and poor continues to grow it will ultimately result in the return of the democrats and their extremist policies. michael dell is reportedly worth 15 billion dollars yet he is leading a destructive price war that is hurting small and medium businesses and leading the outsourcing of our jobs and technology to foreign countries. if large corporations will not invest in their country and countrymen i support an active role by the government to reverse the re-distribution of wealth from the middle-class to the wealthy and i support the republican party and the president in doing so... if you disagree with this particular bill what alternatives would you suggest to strengthen and preserve the american middle-class in a non-socialistic manner? View Quote It is amazing how many people want something for nothing. |
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Quoted: Quoted: ... [i]Somebody[/i] has to pay... View Quote 'Making a profit is greed!' 'It's not my fault, I never had a chance!' 'There ought to be a law!' Who is John Galt? [:)] D(WaitingToVanishAndBecomeAPirate!!)Peacher View Quote |
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Welcome to my world... [:(!]
Handouts to get votes from the poor people that don't want to lift a fucking finger to get a damn job, all supported with middle cass taxes? Sounds pretty familiar to me... NsB |
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Quoted: Welcome to my world... [:(!] Handouts to get votes from the poor people that don't want to lift a fucking finger to get a damn job, all supported with middle cass taxes? Sounds pretty familiar to me... NsB View Quote |
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Hey this sounds similar to the Veterans benefit I have. I am gauranteed a housing loan and have the closing cost or down payment added to the payments, except, this is even better. Man, instead of joining the Army I should have just not gotten a job. Now I know better.
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Wow, folks!
Being much older than most of y'all, I suppose that y'all have simply not seen the fine 1946 Frank Capra movie [b]It's a Wonderful Life[/b] as often as I have! Home ownership is an American ideal! As the senior Bailey responds when George tells him that he doesn't want to spend his life in a 'shabby little office' at the Bailey Bros Building & Loan: [b]"It's deep in the race for a man to want his own roof, walls, and fireplace. And we're helping him get those things in our 'shabby little office.'"[/b] Now, you may argue or quibble that the Federal Government simply has no right to encourage home ownership by ANYONE, whether low income folks, or the incredibly wealthy. But it has. And it has created a nation of homeowners, for better or for worse! Tell me, are any of you folks living in homes that are being purchased through mortages guaranteed by FHA or the VA? (I would bet that 80% of y'all are!) Do you insist on writing off your home mortgage interest payments as legitimate deductions on your income tax returns? (I would bet that 100% of y'all are!) Did you ever purchase a '235' home, as a starter home? So, I suppose that some Federal intrusion into the private marketplace is good, but some is not good. And, I further suppose, that it depends upon whether you are old Mr. Potter, or George Bailey of the Bailey Bros Building & Loan, if y'all think that is good for America or not? [:D] 'Look Daddy! Teacher says every time a bell rings, an angel gets his wings' ~ ZuZu Bailey. Eric The(ClarenceOddbodyOfAR15.com)Hun[>]:)] |
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Quoted: I think I am not voting for him. I really do think that I have been betrayed. We really need a revolution. View Quote I know I am getting tired of voting for the "least bad" candidate. |
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I would be willing to bet that President Bush receives about, oh, [b]80% of the military's absentee votes[/b] next year!
What do y'all think? So much for the 'least bad' candidate! I'll be voting with them! Eric The(HonestToGoddness)Hun[>]:)] |
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Good God....isn't 200+ years of institutionalized and governmant mandated racism enough? When are we going to stop this shit????
-HS |
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Quoted: Quoted: i am in no way supporting this particular issue but i am concerned about the general effects of globalization and the decline of the middle-class. i believe if the republican party is to continue to dominate our political process and preserve traditional american values it must maintain a large and prosperous middle class. if the divide between the rich and poor continues to grow it will ultimately result in the return of the democrats and their extremist policies. View Quote What divide are you talking about? View Quote I'm surprised you do not understand it because it is 100% correct. Look at US history in the early 20th century up to WWII. At no time in our history were we ever at as much risk of sliding into communism. And it was clearly the result of income disparity and a severely damaged middle-class. What do you think the New Deal was about? It was an attempt to pacify those who were on the verge of starting a revolution. The middle-class is shrinking. Many individuals who once had good manufacturing jobs now work at Wally World and Home Depot. Believe it or not, this could result in severe problems in the near future. I'm not fond of these programs either. I would much prefer a return of real jobs. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Welcome to my world... [:(!] Handouts to get votes from the poor people that don't want to lift a fucking finger to get a damn job, all supported with middle cass taxes? Sounds pretty familiar to me... NsB View Quote View Quote One of these days I will, I'm on my full working peek right now, when it gets lower again I'll do so. Be warned, you'll not like it, as MANY of the stuff we're living right now is EXACTLY where the US is headed if some policies are not changed [:(] NsB |
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Quoted: Wow, folks! Being much older than most of y'all, I suppose that y'all have simply not seen the fine 1946 Frank Capra movie [b]It's a Wonderful Life[/b] as often as I have! Home ownership is an American ideal! As the senior Bailey responds when George tells him that he doesn't want to spend his life in a 'shabby little office' at the Bailey Bros Building & Loan: [b]"It's deep in the race for a man to want his own roof, walls, and fireplace. And we're helping him get those things in our 'shabby little office.'"[/b] Now, you may argue or quibble that the Federal Government simply has no right to encourage home ownership by ANYONE, whether low income folks, or the incredibly wealthy. But it has. And it has created a nation of homeowners, for better or for worse! Tell me, are any of you folks living in homes that are being purchased through mortages guaranteed by FHA or the VA? (I would bet that 80% of y'all are!) Do you insist on writing off your home mortgage interest payments as legitimate deductions on your income tax returns? (I would bet that 100% of y'all are!) Did you ever purchase a '235' home, as a starter home? So, I suppose that some Federal intrusion into the private marketplace is good, but some is not good. And, I further suppose, that it depends upon whether you are old Mr. Potter, or George Bailey of the Bailey Bros Building & Loan, if y'all think that is good for America or not? [:D] 'Look Daddy! Teacher says every time a bell rings, an angel gets his wings' ~ ZuZu Bailey. Eric The(ClarenceOddbodyOfAR15.com)Hun[>]:)] View Quote No mention or reply to the fact that this program is race based. No acknowledgement that this program is not a tax deduction or a loan guarantee, but a grant. Oratory just won't cover the holes in that argument. |
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Didn't the unions aid their own loss of manufacturing jobs by demanding pay in excess? I'm all for returning production jobs home before we turn into a complete service industry, but need to throw all the environmentalists in prison first, because they will do their best to curb industry.
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Quoted: I would be willing to bet that President Bush receives about, oh, [b]80% of the military's absentee votes[/b] next year! What do y'all think? So much for the 'least bad' candidate! I'll be voting with them! Eric The(HonestToGoddness)Hun[>]:)] View Quote Hear Hear ETH It is all starting to make sense now. You think about it. Home ownership has got to be the largest money wheel in this country. The more people that own homes the more money is circulating in the economy. Ever seen anybody invest hundreds or thousands of dollars in an apartment? No! Sometimes we need to look at these things as investments in our countries future. Not just, Oh no uncle sam is in my pocket again for a couple of bucks. Wah Wah Wah. I for one know this will increase my business and I'm not in real estate. Sanguine(The Optimistic)Sanguine |
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Quoted: I don't understand this. The rich do keep getting richer, but the poor ALSO keep getting richer. America has the richest poor people on Earth. What divide are you talking about? View Quote As eloquently put by an emaciated Indian man: "I want to live in America where the poor people are fat." |
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Post from Jarhead_22 -
No mention or reply to the fact that this program is race based. View Quote Well, [b]Jarhead_22[/b], since you didn't provide any link in your thread, I was forced to rely on [b]mattja's[/b] post to find a link. There is no mention in that article that this program is directed exclusively to MINORITY participants. Well, is it? Is is truly 'race based'? If it is, then it is absurd. If it's not, and is only directed to low-income folks, then it is perfectly sound. No acknowledgement that this program is not a tax deduction or a loan guarantee, but a grant. View Quote Again, relying solely on [b]mattja's[/b] link, there is no mention that it is a grant. But I'm certain that grants are just as permissible so long as they are not 'race-based' as well. Are they? Oratory just won't cover the holes in that argument. View Quote If this programn is 'race-based' then the program is a bad one, indeed. But if it is 'income-based' only, then it may not be something that I would like, but then it would just be one of many, many things that I don't like! What about my other points, [b]Jarhead_22[/b]? Are the holes in [u]those[/u] arguments just as glaring? [:D] Eric The(Oratorical)Hun[>]:)] |
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I can't find any text that specifically excludes whites, but all the hype about this program is for raising home ownership rates among blacks and latinos. The President says it, the MBA (Mortgage Bankers of America) says it, Katherine Harris (R-FL) says it. I'm all for higher rates of minority home ownership too, but I don't think it's a goal worth [b]ME[/b] having to pay for! Is that too hard to understand?
The federal government has every right to [b]encourage[/b] home ownership, absolutely. But this is not encouragement. This is a giveaway. Well, a takeaway then a giveaway. Taking it from those who earned it and giving it to those who have not. And make no mistake: this is a grant, not a loan, loan guarantee or any other device. The government, with the blessing of the President, is going to take money that I earned and could use to pay down my mortgage, and give it to someone else who has not earned it to pay theirs. If that's conservative, I need to find another movement with which to align myself. |
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[b]Brother ETH!![/b]
Yes, I have purchased both of my houses with the assistance of a VA loan. (I sold the first one to move to Texas when I left active duty 4 years ago.) Growing up, I was poor. In high school, my mother could only afford a small efficency apartment, so I slept in the kitchen. We did not have a car or cable TV. If it would not have been for government cheese and a close friend who owned a chicken farm and gave us eggs, I would have gone hungry several nights a week. I can still make one fine cheese omlette. The VA loan is a benefit I WORKED and SACRIFICED many years to EARN. I am still required to REPAY the entire loan on time. It is anything but free, and in order to get it, I and every other vet had to prove our worth to society by putting our lives on the line. These 'poor' Americans have the same options I had. If they REALLY want a house, they will WORK and SACRIFICE for it. Just like I did. |
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I am conservative enough to believe that the Federal government has no business even getting into the home ownership business.
I am realistic enough to believe that we will never get rid of the Federal government out of the home ownership business. We took the wrong path long ago! It was my parents' Generation (your grandparents' Generation) that first opened the doors to the Treasury for such programs! Yep. The same Generation that stormed the beaches of Normandy, and those at Tarawa, were the same ones that voted for FDR and his New Deal, over and over and over again! Now, since we have all settled into the safe and comfortable position of having our home mortgage interest payments being deductible from our income taxes, and our interest rates being lowered by Federal guarantees our home loans, it truly would take a Revolution to change it! I'm not certain that you could find a whole lot of patriots for [u]that[/u] campaign. I mean, they would have to leave those comfortable homes to do so. Eric The(Realistic)Hun[>]:)] |
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It's a good program..
The more people they get off section 8 and into their own homes.. the lighter the burden becomes to the tax payer in the long run. |
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And yet you support the President in this effort:
Quoted: Now, you may argue or quibble that the Federal Government simply has no right to encourage home ownership by ANYONE, whether low income folks, or the incredibly wealthy. But it has. And it has created a nation of homeowners, for better or for worse! View Quote There is a difference between support for the President and slavish devotion to every utterance and stroke of his pen. |
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Hey Eric,
"I see your truuuuuu colors shinin through!" Too bad they aren't "beautiful like a rainbow." It's just kinda red... no white and blue...just red...as in Lenin. As in "You work and I'll take that money..." You've blown your cover man. Scott |
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Quoted: Quoted: i am in no way supporting this particular issue but i am concerned about the general effects of globalization and the decline of the middle-class. i believe if the republican party is to continue to dominate our political process and preserve traditional american values it must maintain a large and prosperous middle class. if the divide between the rich and poor continues to grow it will ultimately result in the return of the democrats and their extremist policies. View Quote What divide are you talking about? View Quote i have a graphic at home (i'm currently at work) based upon statistics by "Business Week" that states the average hourly worker's income has remained unchanged since 1980 while the average CEO's salary has increased 1000%. michael dell is worth 15 billion dollars. it is a lie to suggest that he cannot afford to pay his workers health care or that he NEEDS to send technical jobs to india. business leaders in our countries history have SHARED their wealth with their employees and too many today are not... what is good for "big business" is not necessarily good for small and medium business. not investing in the middle class by the wealthy will result in civil discontent and result in a return to democratic (the party) values. conservative leaders NEED to encourage or even FORCE the wealthy to invest in america and americans in order to protect our traditional values from the democrats... |
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Quoted: The more people they get off section 8 and into their own homes.. the lighter the burden becomes to the tax payer in the long run. View Quote If people want out of section 8 housing, let them save their [b]OWN[/b] money and buy a house like my parents did. And how does this decrease the burden to the taxpayer? Do you think there's some shortage of poor people? Do you think that the Department of Homeland inSecurity is going to stop the constant in[s]vasion[/s]flux of new poor people so that we can quantify the number that will need this new government takeaway/giveaway program and hold them to that number? [b]OF COURSE NOT![/b] What federal tax and spend program has ever been repealed, even after its goals were met? The federal income tax was instituted to pay for World War One. Last I heard, that one was over a while back --it was in all the papers-- but maybe Congress just missed it. They should call this boondoggle what it is: The "One More Reason To Swim The Rio Grande" Act. |
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Quoted: The more people they get off section 8 and into their own homes.. the lighter the burden becomes to the tax payer in the long run. View Quote So we'll trade one evil for another? No thanks. How about get the burdens off the taxpayers period. Scott |
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Post from DPeacher -
[b]Brother ETH!![/b] View Quote [b]Brother DPeacher![/b] Yes, I have purchased both of my houses with the assistance of a VA loan. (I sold the first one to move to Texas when I left active duty 4 years ago.) View Quote That's a great deal for you and all of our veterans! My father was able to continue his education and receive a degree from Texas A&M on the GI Bill following WWII! You know growing up on the Hun Farm didn't put enough money in anyone's pocket to send their son to college! There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, at all! Growing up, I was poor. In high school, my mother could only afford a small efficency apartment, so I slept in the kitchen. View Quote Next time we are in Chillicothe, I will take you by a couple of the houses that I grew up in! Well, two of them were torn down as 'eyesores' since we left, but you will get the picture! We did not have a car or cable TV. If it would not have been for government cheese and a close friend who owned a chicken farm and gave us eggs, I would have gone hungry several nights a week. I can still make one fine cheese omlette. View Quote Ever have a ketchup sandwich? [:D] I know you have! The VA loan is a benefit I WORKED and SACRIFICED many years to EARN. I am still required to REPAY the entire loan on time. View Quote That is very true, but neither you, nor my father, served our country simply to get that sort of benefit, and both of y'all would have done what you did simply for the honor of serving! It is a Federal program that is offered to [u]some[/u] of the veterans...for there is an absolute limit on the amount of home that you can purchase through a VA loan, is there not? Are wealthy veterans not entitled to have their loans underwritten, even if they are able to afford the huge monthly payments that come with their large and luxurious homes? It is anything but free, and in order to get it, I and every other vet had to prove our worth to society by putting our lives on the line. View Quote Amen, Brother, you are preaching to the choir! These 'poor' Americans have the same options I had. If they REALLY want a house, they will WORK and SACRIFICE for it. Just like I did. View Quote You would be surprised at how many low income folks cannot get into the military for some reason or the other. I hope that whatever these 'loans' or 'grants' entail, that the people who obtain them are required to pay for their homes! But I have yet to see this program adequately explained! Do not think for one moment that I think other than you do on this matter! It's just not a 'make or break' issue for me to decide whether or not to support President Bush's Reelection! As it is for some.... Eric The(Conservative)Hun[>]:)] |
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Quoted: michael dell is worth 15 billion dollars. it is a lie to suggest that he cannot afford to pay his workers health care or that he NEEDS to send technical jobs to india. View Quote Sour grapes? When you own Dell, you can run it however you please.... Scott |
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By the way, it's a GRANT, not a LOAN. The money is given with no expectation of repayment.
Search google for +"American Dream" +Bush "The act creates a federal 'gift fund' that will provide $200 million in grants to more than 40,000 low-income families annually to low income and minority families looking to become homeowners." Nice...giving "gifts" with my money... Scott |
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Quoted: Quoted: The more people they get off section 8 and into their own homes.. the lighter the burden becomes to the tax payer in the long run. View Quote If people want out of section 8 housing, let them save their [b]OWN[/b] money and buy a house like my parents did. And how does this decrease the burden to the taxpayer? View Quote you rather subsidize section8 recipients for the rest of their lives? Or give them a loan(Which has to be payed back)to help them purchase a home and get off the system. |
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What's the difference between a 'grant' for home ownership versus a 'grant' for education?
Eric The(Perplexed)Hun[>]:)] |
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#1, It's not a loan
#2, How's it going to get them "off the system." The only difference it will make is further enslavement which will require more handouts. As a homeowner, are there MORE or LESS monthly expenses than as a renter? Mortgage? Taxes? Insurance? Utilities? Maintenance and upkeep? These people don't have the money for that to begin with, but hey, using MY money, they can afford the closing costs, and later on they can have some MORE of MY money for new lawnmowers and roof repairs, and maybe the FED GOV will insure their mortgages with some MORE of MY money. Fucking socialist bullshit. |
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Quoted: What's the difference between a 'grant' for home ownership versus a 'grant' for education? View Quote One is for a home.... The other is for education.... Clearer? Scott |
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Quoted: you rather subsidize section8 recipients for the rest of their lives? Or give them a loan(Which has to be payed back)to help them purchase a home and get off the system. View Quote You're entirely wrong. This is not a loan or loan guarantee program. It's a grant. A giveaway. A freebie. How many times do I have to say it? Do some research yourself and find out what's up. |
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You guys look over it...I need my sleep right around now real bad.
[URL]http://www.hud.gov/initiatives/blueprint/message.cfm[/URL] |
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Quoted: What's the difference between a 'grant' for home ownership versus a 'grant' for education? Eric The(Perplexed)Hun[>]:)] View Quote 1. You can sit on your grant house for a few years and sell it for profit, or you can rent out a portion of your grant house for income. Why don't we just give them a check and let them spend it how they please? You write your first!! [:D] 2. You still have to put your grant education to WORK for your income. As for the other questions you had about VA loans. 1. They are provided to EVERY Honorably Discharged Vet and those on Active Duty with more then 180 days of active duty (not sure how the NG and Reserves are handled), REGARDLESS of rank, E-1 through O-10. The same benefit applies across the board. 2. There are caps to the amount for which the VA will underwrite, but is is rather substantial (about 180k I think, not sure, but anyone can look it up on the web...). |
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Quoted: Do not think for one moment that I think other than you do on this matter! It's just not a 'make or break' issue for me to decide whether or not to support President Bush's Reelection! As it is for some.... Eric The(Conservative)Hun[>]:)] View Quote Well, what issue, (or should I say issue[b]s[/b]), IS "make or break" for you?? Bush has expanded the education dept, and Medicare, has said he'll sign the AWB, did NOT have ashcroft SUPPORT the "silviera" appeal, (in FACT, OPPOSED it!), signed unconstitutional "campaign finance", continued the logging shutdown in the northwest, hasn't reversed ANY Clinton executive orders.... You are defending Karl Marx!! Bush has accomplished what Clinton only DREAMED of!! [snoopy] |
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