Anyone else hear this?  

Apparently it's reported that a U.S. C 17 transport was hit by a missile taking off from Baghdad airport tody - but apparently it landed safely and nobody was injured.


It seems that it's pretty hard to bring down a big plane with those shoulder-held SAMs - thank God for that!

Austrian, a pilot, said it's better to be hit on take off by a SAM rather than landing.

Manpads are not designed to bring down such large aircraft that have engines built like tanks.  They were designed more for Helicopters and damaging attack aircraft.  Their warheads a not large!  That is why SAM's designed to bring down bombers have very large warheads like the SA-2!!!

SA-2's are huge, flying telephone poles..  They only have to explode within like 100' to damage an aircraft.

I saw one version of the SA-2 has a 300 Kg warhead, that is more bang than a Mk-83 1000lb bomb!!!!

Yeah! Imagine if they'd had .50 BMG's! [rolleyes]


Thank you, Lord, for bringing our boys back down safely...

I am sure there are some ZSU-23's floating around and plenty of DShKM floating around!!!!
[img]http://world.guns.ru/machine/dshkm_aa.jpg[/img]

A pigeon can bust a five million dollar jet engine if it gets ingested.  

Just keep that in mind the next time you're flying in a commercial airliner during migration season.

A blown tire brought down a Concorde.

A shoulder-fired missile could bring down any aircraft if it was the lucky shot of the day.  HIt an engine, and when the engine tears itself apart, shrapnel might sever something very critical.

CJ

True on a lucky hit, the Corcorde's problem is that its engines are right next to each other thus if one blows they other goes with it!!!  

The AIM-9 Sidewinder when it first came out had a had a puny warhead (bigger than a stingers though), it was only damageing the tough a$$ Migs.  The put a bigger warhead on them to cause a real KILL.

But anyways, I was a little off on the SA-2 with a 300Kg warhead, just pulled up the specs; Warhead (type):HE 200kg ([b]295kg SA-2E[/b]) 188kg (HQ-2B/F/J/P),
possible nuclear

Here is nice pic of the flying telephone pole!! [img]http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/russia/airdef/sa-2-DDST8501311_JPG.jpg[/img]

Here are the Warhead specs on a SA-7 :
Warhead Weight (kg) 1.15
Max. Range 5,500 meters
Min. Range 500 meters
Max. Altitude 4,500 meters
Min. Altitude 18 meters
[img]http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/sa-7-DFST8304944_JPG.jpg[/img]

Here is the warhead specs on a AIM-9 Sidewinder which is designed to KILL.
Warhead Annular blast fragmentation warhead
25 lbs high explosive for AIM-9H
20.8 lbs high explosive for AIM-9L/M

That is more explosive than a 155mm howitzer round which has between 13 - 16 lbs of bang depending on the filler used being TNT or Comp B

The SA-2 is a sissy,remember the big Nike missle? Something like a 2 kiloton warhead,and best of all,the Army based them in neighborhoods across the US.There are some Nike homepages that list where the sites are,many are around big cities and military bases.

Is it my imagination, or is the middle of that fuselage narrower than the ends?  The Russians used area rule in designing it?

You are correct Doublefeed!!!!

It would take a mighty big hammer to shoot down a C-17.  There is dual, triple, and quadruple system redundancy, and am extremely stout airframe.

I'm truly impressed by the way the laid out the systems for survivability on this jet.

I love my job!

You mean the one that landed safely afterwards?

A few months ago, someone on this board posted a link to an extensive listing of incidents where aircraft were hit by MANPADs. IIRC, the results weren't particularly impressive, since many aircraft survived. If you also include the incidents where the MANPADs missed their target entirely, it gets even less encouraging for the bad guys.

Here is a SAM!!!!  LIM-49A Nike Zeus/Spartan, it had a 5 Megaton Warhead!!!!! [peep]  Nothing like only have to be within 6-7 miles accuracy to do the job!!

[img]http://www.astronautix.com/graphics/m/m049.jpg[/img]

[:O]

So... has anyone seen confirmation of the C-17 hit?

Concertina wire, not so good for engines!!!!  The broken axle was probably more from having some damaged flight control surfaces resulting in too fast a rate of desent on the landing.

If it were me, I would have fixed flight routes with UAV's and fast strike aircraft on station.  Nothing like a Hellfire or Maverick to spoil a terrorist's day!!!! A B-61 or B-83 would be nicer solution to the problem!!!! Nothing quite compares to winning the hearts & minds via nuke!!! [img]http://homepage.mac.com/topcover/.Pictures/topcover/HeavyMetal/B83%3A2FB61.jpg[/img]

The Nike Zeus was an anti-ballistic missile, not as an anti-aircraft SAM.  The Nike Ajax and later the Nike Hercules (which could be equiped with an optional nuclear warhead) were the anti-aircraft missiles.

I saw the original story on a Danish newspage, based on a ritzau news report.

[url]http://www.berlingske.dk/udland/artikel:aid=386328/[/url]

All it says is:

[blue]"A transport plane from the american airforce (type c-17) was hit by a missile on taking off from Baghdad airport on wednesday.

An American spokesman said that the plane was able to land safely."[/blue]


I haven't seen it anywhere else, so maybe it's just an incorrect rumor.  

LIM-49A Nike Zeus/Spartan is a SAM by definition but not of the Anti-Aircraft type.  One probably could launch this at an aircraft no problem, the warhead can be command detonated and with 5 Megatons, accuracy isn't much of an issue!  Heck, the Fireball would be over a mile in size!

But, but, wouldn't it be better to WOUND the aircraft, than to KILL it?  If you send it home all busted up, you take him out of the fight and also take up their mechanics' resources!!

[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

I was at BIAP and got to see the DHL make it's emergency landing and it was pretty wild. They did a no flaps landing with no hydraulics ala Souix City and did an amazing job of even hitting the runway for a bunch of Saudi's.

I havn't heard of anymore planes getting hit since I got back friday but they were pretty much shooting at everything that would take off and nearly every C17 141 and C5 would only land or take off at night.

Actually, they didn't put a bigger warhead in the AIM-9, since with a 5 inch tube there just isn't extra space. They made the warhead directionally fuzed, so it would go off towards the enemy plane, not just in a circle.

And the 9X Sidewinder appears to now be a Hit-to-Kill weapon. If you can tell anything from the propaganda videos.

Here are some more AIM-9 Warhead specs:
AIM-9B/E/J/N/P :10 lb ( 4.5 kg)
AIM-9D/G/H 22.4 lb (10.2 kg)
AIM-9L/M 20.8 lb ( 9.4 kg)
Information from the US Navy Fact File

I remember in EOD school (Air 2 phase) at "glorious" Indian Head and told about the warheads increasing.  I did one of my tests on the old sidewinder, one of the myriad ways to fail was to misidentify the model and depending on the size of the warhead, your safe distance increases or decreases.  Guess wrong, you fail!!! Safety violations are a instant NO GO!!!

Trust me, fail twice and you see the Academic review board!!!  Getting your ASS chewed by a bunch of E-9's is NO FUN!!!!

US plane makes emergency landing in Baghdad after engine explodes

[url]http://www.spacewar.com/2003/031210153803.4pgamquz.html[/url]

BAGHDAD (AFP) Dec 10, 2003
A US Air Force plane made an emergency landing after one of its engines exploded after takeoff from Baghdad, an air force spokeswoman said Wednesday after reports from Washington of a possible missile hit.
"It was yesterday (Tuesday) morning about 4:00 am (0100 GMT). A C-17 shortly after departure from the airport had a flight emergency. They had an explosion in one of their engines," Captain Carrie Clear, of the 447 Air Expeditionary Group, told AFP.

One person was slightly hurt and the aircraft landed safely, she said.

The C-17, a cargo and troop transport plane, was carrying three crew and 13 passengers, Clear said.

"The cause of the explosion is still being investigated," she said.

A US defence official speaking on condition of anonymity in Washington said "they believe it was hit by a surface-to-air missile based on witness reports."

Carrie said that "of course" a missile strike is one possible cause but a bird strike or rock entering the engine also may have been responsible.

"They're looking at everything," Clear said.

In the only confirmed missile strike at the airport since major combat operations ended in Iraq on May 1, a DHL cargo plane was hit by a shoulder- fired SA-14 surface-to-air missile as it took off from Baghdad airport on November 22.

DHL resumed flights into Iraq on December 3.


Cargo Plane Damaged In Iraq From McChord AFB

December 10, 2003
[url]http://www.komotv.com/stories/28733.htm[/url]
By KOMO Staff & News Services

BAGHDAD, IRAQ - A military cargo plane that had one of its engines explode shortly after takeoff from the Baghdad airport was from McChord Air Force Base, a spokesman confirmed Wednesday.

One of 16 passengers and crew was slightly injured, but the plane landed safely, said U.S. Air Force Capt. Carrie Clear of the 447th Air Expeditionary Group, based at the airport.

Senior Master Sgt. Joe Kubistek, a McChord spokesman, said he could not comment on reports that the C-17 was struck by a surface-to-air missile.

"I'm unable to confirm or deny what caused the engine explosion," Kubistek told The Associated Press. "There is an investigation that's going on. They're looking at the damage to the aircraft engine to try to determine what caused it."

A senior Pentagon source, speaking on condition of anonymity, described the explosion as a direct hit by a ground-fired missile, "like the DHL" incident that damaged a cargo plane leaving the airport last month.

I want to go out there and saw the cockpit off that DHL airbus and cart it home on a freighter.  It'd make a halfway decent 'pit based home simulator for heavy jets.

I gots my sawzall,  I gots my pickup truck, I gots  it MADE!

CJ