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Posted: 11/18/2003 9:53:45 AM EDT
[#1]
The only thing better would be a belt fed with nearly the same overall length. But hell yes, an AK with several drums is one hell of a crowd pleaser.
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Posted: 11/18/2003 10:01:06 AM EDT
[#2]
Don't forget the Kobra red dot. All right, now I'm popping smoke and gettin outa' here before all the AK hating AR fans get a hold on this thread like Micheal Jackson with a 12 Y/O boy.
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Posted: 11/18/2003 10:03:55 AM EDT
[#3]
Its a good choice thats for damn sure!
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Posted: 11/18/2003 10:14:53 AM EDT
[#4]
Yep.
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Posted: 11/18/2003 10:21:53 AM EDT
[#5]
i'd rather have mah AR
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Posted: 11/18/2003 10:26:55 AM EDT
[#6]
No
You MUST HAVE a COLT M4 w/ an ARMS SIR Sytem, SureFire Lights, Trijicon ACOG, Beta-C magazine, Camel Back Hydration system, Federal XM-193 ammo, Blackhawk Vest, Strider Knife, MARPAT camo, and an H&K Pistol. The AK will do just fine too.
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Posted: 11/18/2003 10:30:43 AM EDT
[#7]
I would take my AK or FAL before I would grab my AR.
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Posted: 11/18/2003 10:30:45 AM EDT
[#8]
Damn thats had me  . |
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Posted: 11/18/2003 10:32:09 AM EDT
[#9]
Why not just an SKS with a drum?
They really are just tools you know. |
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Posted: 11/18/2003 10:35:32 AM EDT
[#10]
Don't make me cry, that was my planned SHTF gun, till CT made a super tight registration dead line I missed. My romanian beauty is no longer with me [>Q]. Guess I'll have to become an AR fan now...
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Posted: 11/18/2003 10:38:44 AM EDT
[#11]
They really are just tools you know.
agreed. kalashnikov! accept no substitute! wave, yer cracking me up. |
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Posted: 11/18/2003 10:48:59 AM EDT
[#12]
I have a drum and it makes way too much noise and is too hard to reload. I would prefer a backpack full of magazines.
It is pretty intimidating bumpfiring it. Probably the closest to to a SAW I will ever get. Those 75 round drums go really fast when you bump fire them.  |
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Posted: 11/18/2003 10:59:53 AM EDT
[#13]
The only AK I'd want in any SHTF scenario would be a FA (class 3) one. Forget the semi-auto, if I'm stuck with semi I'll go with something better.
MHO, YMMV |
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Posted: 11/18/2003 11:02:08 AM EDT
[#14]
An Ak is a fine choice for urban combat. A 75 Rnd. drum adds too much weight to the rifle and makes it clumbsy. I'll take the regular 30 rounders, a select fire AK and some frags.
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Posted: 11/18/2003 11:04:48 AM EDT
[#15]
And as a bonus after 100 rounds you can used it to start fires.
An AK maybe reliable enough to keep shooting after 100 rounds but unless you are wearing asbestos gloves you ain't gonna be able to hold it after 100 rounds. My apologies to the "But isn't the AK47 the greatest gun ever made?" crowd. |
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Posted: 11/18/2003 11:20:31 AM EDT
[#16]
HK 91 around the shoulder. Right hand: AR15; Left hand: AK47. Hang on the right side at the waist: MP5 SD; Left side: Uzi. What else? 
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Posted: 11/18/2003 11:37:54 AM EDT
[#17]
I'd go with that or an Uzi Model A semi or Vector f/a.
Solid, reliable, just as wicked looking (I'd rather have a "omg- I'm not gonna screw with THAT guy" versus a "nice popgun, get 'em!"), and cheap and available ammo. Mike |
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Posted: 11/18/2003 11:43:45 AM EDT
[#18]
More hands by the sounds of it!
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Posted: 11/18/2003 12:00:09 PM EDT
[#19]
If there is one thing Mojo can count on it is the helping hands of the rest of the Texas Crew. |
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Posted: 11/18/2003 1:00:34 PM EDT
[#20]
Yeah, I was going to say I'd go with 30rnders over the drum too. I'd be tempted to go with an AK in 5.45 too. You wouldn't find ammo you could use around like you might be able to do with 7.62, but I kinda figure on having several 1000 rnd cases anyway...
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Posted: 11/18/2003 2:20:14 PM EDT
[#21]
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Posted: 11/18/2003 2:24:33 PM EDT
[#22]
I have ALL that! What do I do now?  
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Posted: 11/18/2003 2:36:16 PM EDT
[#23]
I don't think they worked very well at all for the LA Bank Robbers.
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Posted: 11/18/2003 2:59:45 PM EDT
[#24]
the aks? If those psychos wanted to escape they could have instead they decided to fight it out. They were using no cover and were just spraying rounds. |
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Posted: 11/18/2003 3:07:24 PM EDT
[#25]
neither did the full auto g3 or the ar. |
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Posted: 11/18/2003 3:47:56 PM EDT
[#26]
M4, need i say more
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Posted: 11/18/2003 4:10:12 PM EDT
[#27]
True, it does get hot. It seems like my Nomex gloves do just fine to insulate the heat. If you fire a hundred rounds and are still in the $hit, your in rough shape nomatter what gun you're humpin'. From what I hear, Kvar furniture helps with the heat. I know I've been burned more than once by old my m16 m4.
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Posted: 11/18/2003 4:27:42 PM EDT
[#28]
…sounds pretty good to me.
The only thing about AK’s that gives them a SIGNIFICANT disadvantage over AR’s at urban ranges is their sights. I REALLY like the large, ghost-ring rear sight on AR’s for short/medium range work. Only a red-dot would be faster. |
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Posted: 11/18/2003 4:32:26 PM EDT
[#29]
It worked well to kill schoool children. Then again, they don't shoot back. I would take a AR15 carbine. Still, be nice to have an AK for someone that doesn't know guns that well. Duh, conscript gun.
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Posted: 11/18/2003 5:00:32 PM EDT
[#30]
I think we have a winner in the Most Pretentious, Condescending Post Of The Month Award... |
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Posted: 11/18/2003 5:29:27 PM EDT
[#31]
I have have both an AR and an AK. I did an experiment once and fired a case through both of them one weekend without cleaning them. We can all guess which jammed first (although, to be fair even though I was using crappy ammo and didn't clean it at all, the bushmaster only jammed once). The AK would have easily taken another 2-3k without any problems. I have been burned by hot barrels on both of these guns at least once, I have never been shot. If the SHTF, I'd chose the one that "might" give me a burn over the one that "might" jam before the initial dust settled. After it calmed down a bit I'd clean the AK and use the AR to pick off small bands of looters for their gear. 
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Posted: 11/18/2003 6:13:00 PM EDT
[#32]
My class 3'd XM177E2 clone. That way, if I need to hit something over 100 yds away, I'd trust it. Oh yeah, I sling the .22 long rifle AF conversion unit in a BREN gun mag pouch on the side, so if I get to the open country, I can take small game w/it. Of course, I live in the country to begin with, so why the hell would I (or any sane human being) want to be in the city in the first damn place
 BTW, I own 6 AKs and 5 ARs, so don't accuse me of being an AR only kind of guy. If I had to have an AK type, it'd be my Galil. .223 ammo is still more common than 7.62x39 |
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Posted: 11/18/2003 6:25:01 PM EDT
[#33]
And the synthetic k-var handguards really do tame the heat. So that's a non-issue for me. edited twice 4 gramor airs
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Posted: 11/18/2003 6:30:34 PM EDT
[#34]
IMHO, a FA 7.62mm AK with forward wood PG & a drum is about equivalent to a Thompson SMG...
Similar effective ranges, and the AK delivers about subgun accuracy... Both are super reliable... A semiauto AK looses some of it's usefullness, just like a semiauto subgun (and yes, I've fired both (FA and SA AKs), so I can compare...)... |
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Posted: 11/19/2003 8:26:24 AM EDT
[#35]
Exactly. I'm not worried about getting a perfect rifle now. I'll have one when the time comes, one way or another... |
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Posted: 11/19/2003 8:53:16 AM EDT
[#36]
I did a similar experiment. But in over 20 years of regular (means I clean them on occassion) shooting my preban Colts have NEVER had a single issue. And what kind of AR15 do you have? If your like many AK owners who cobbled one together from parts of 4 differnent manufacturers I'm gonna believe that is your issue. And it's not just that AKs get hot, they get HOTTER than any other gun. Put 100 rounds through both and you can still hold and shoot the AR. I factor in "can reasonably hold in your hands" into overall reliability. I have actually seen AK top handguards ignite on a handful of occassions. I've never seen another gun actually catch on fire AKs are a cheap reasonably practical gun and that is why I own several. But they are not this mythic ubber gun that some owners make them out to be. They have more than a few drawbacks. I think I'd take my AR everytime, especially in urban AO. For dense jungle sure a AK becomes way more practical. |
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Posted: 11/19/2003 9:48:58 AM EDT
[#37]
Man, that's a toughie...but I *think* I'd go with my SAR 3...AK reliability in the ever popular .223 lol. Ammo will be plentiful, and you can always "acquire" better stuff later, if you need it. I expect the SAR 3 would do what I need it to do accuracy wise, and you KNOW it's gonna be pretty much idiot proof in terms of maintenence.
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Posted: 11/19/2003 10:34:07 AM EDT
[#38]
Actually it didn't even do well at that: www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/usr/wbardwel/public/nfalist/fl_aw_report2.txt AK the choice of untrained peasants the world over. M4 the choice of trained professional soldiers the world over. |
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Posted: 11/19/2003 10:44:31 AM EDT
[#39]
I built a rifle specifically for such things, and named it my Urban Combat Rifle, or UCR for short.
It stays VERY cool, is very accurate, 100% reliable, easy to carry/find ammo for, werks fer me.  
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Posted: 11/19/2003 10:48:59 AM EDT
[#40]
An AR with a couple of Beta-Mags...
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Posted: 11/19/2003 10:52:18 AM EDT
[#41]
Have none of y'all ever seen the video, Kill The AK!?
There's some guy with a post-'86 Dealer Sample Full auto Chinese AK, that is giving up his SOT status and has to turn the weapon back. So, instead, he took it to a firing range to see how many rounds the weapon could take and still function! He had a group of folks at tables behind him furiously loading 75 round drums, and started off! Firing full-auto, with stops only to change drums! At about 2,500 rounds the wooden front hand-guards caught fire and fell off on the ground. The fellow was finally wearing welders' gloves to hold the weapon and still it functioned flawlessly! After 10,000 rounds, non-stop, except for mag changes, you could look down the bore and see only a wisp of rifling. Nevertheless, he loaded up a final mag, and firing semi-auto, he aimed at 55 gallon drums about 100 yards away and was able to hit them dead-center without much trouble. Now, try that same experiment with an M-16 of any description! I sincerely doubt that you could get past 1,500 rounds fired full-auto-non-stop, without at least the gas tube failing! Now, most folks would say, that's not how you're supposed to fire a full-auto weapon! Exactly, but can you imagine a scenario in which you might need to fire 10,000 rounds full-auto non-stop? I can! Eric The(IfIOnlyHadOneWeapon...ItWouldStillBeAnAR-15))Hun 
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Posted: 11/19/2003 10:55:33 AM EDT
[#42]
Call that scenario, 'The Alamo Scenario'
Eric The(YeeeHaaawww!)Hun
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Posted: 11/19/2003 11:06:11 AM EDT
[#43]
Do you have a copy of this video? I'd be interested in watching that. Mike |
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Posted: 11/19/2003 11:08:27 AM EDT
[#44]
I didn't know that the shot and survived and shot and died split was that big. Although it isn't suprising with the slow yaw rate and the non-fragmenting wound profile. AK is the best gun for what it was developed for. The AR15 is the best gun it was developed for. AK was developed by a Russian. Russia has always had a large amount of conscripts. Conscripts generally do not care for the cause, are not trained well, and don't take care of their weapons very well. AR15 was developed by an American. Americans have very high volunteer numbers. America at the time was a nation of riflemen. They clean their weapons. I did not intend the original post to be as bad as it turned out. I forgot the smileys !
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Posted: 11/19/2003 11:19:23 AM EDT
[#45]
I saw it complete once at a gun shop, then I downloaded a series of .mpgs that showed about 5 minutes of the event. I only have a single .mpeg of 9.05 MB left, and I would be happy to post it if someone could explain how I could do it! Even the 53 seconds of the clip that I do have left is amazing! It's about 1/3 into the action and the wooden handguards are really smoking! But no fire, just yet! Someone explain to me how I can share it with y'all! Eric The(EasyGoing)Hun
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Posted: 11/19/2003 11:29:13 AM EDT
[#46]
The only 'hit' that I got when I 'googled' the title 'Kill The AK' was a snippet from a German 'Counter-Strike' message board, here it is:
"Das 'Kill the AK'-Video solltest Du Dir reinziehen, das ist ein Klassiker und wurde in KC aufgenommen...'Carlos'." Which, if my college German is correct, translates into something like 'You should pick up the 'Kill The AK' Video, it is a classic and was included in KC (?)...Carlos.' I wonder if 'KC' means some 'Knob Creek' video? The action could have occurred at Knob Creek. CampyBob are you here? Eric The(Dullard)Hun
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Posted: 11/19/2003 12:12:47 PM EDT
[#47]
I DO believe this part. My only point is it WILL catch on fire and you WILL need something like welders gloves to hold it. While the AK will run LONG after other weapons stop, you can hold other weapons a LOT longer than you can a AK before it gets too hot to handle. |
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Posted: 11/19/2003 12:33:06 PM EDT
[#48]
True, SteyrAUG, but if your weapon stops, it won't matter too much whether you can hold it or not!
Unless you are mounting a bayonet charge or something. I wouldn't take that 'Alamo Scenario' too far! Eric The(FlamingAK)Hun
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Posted: 11/19/2003 12:49:02 PM EDT
[#49]
If TSHTF, my 2 AKs will probably remain where they are right now, collecting dust in the back of the gun vault. The only reason I could foresee them getting any use in such a situation would be if I needed to lend a weapon to someone unfamiliar with firearms where a reliable but inaccurate bullethose is still better than nothing at all.
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Posted: 11/19/2003 1:00:27 PM EDT
[#50]
What I am saying is this. I can shoot most of my rifles a LOT longer than I can shoot a AKM rifle. And I have never run a weapon so long it stopped. When shooting my MP5 I usually go through a case without issue (stoppage or exessive heat). I have probably run 500 rounds uniterrupted through my HK21 without failures of any kind, and it did get HOT, but not too hot to hold on more than one ocassion. However once,it did cook off a single round seconds after setting it down. By contrast, even a semi AK after 100 round drum is almost too damn hot to hold and shoot. Now if we had a mounted weapon, by all means lets make it a full auto AK and while we are at it throw some dogs on that top cover for lunch later. |
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