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Posted: 8/6/2017 11:16:06 PM EDT
[#1]
Not a service guy, but from what I have read and researched on the matter, this was not a case of murder.
It was a case of government cover up and not owning up to fucking up. |
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Posted: 8/6/2017 11:28:53 PM EDT
[#2]
I was in high school at the time, and wouldn't enlist for another couple years. But from what I remember his unit was mistaken for enemies and took fairly heavy friendly fire resulting in his death. I've never heard that he was purposely fragged, and while obviously I wasn't there that sounds like bullshit by people pushing an agenda.
The controversy was that he was a poster child for the Army before his death, in that he gave up an awesome professional athlete career to serve his country. Later on it finally came out that he died from friendly fire and the good PR he gave the Army backfired and made the .mil look like shit. It should go without saying, but CPL Tillman gave up a lot to serve when his country needed him, and he was a hero. |
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Posted: 8/6/2017 11:30:18 PM EDT
[#3]
Military apparently knew it was friendly fire early on and did not disclose.
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Posted: 8/6/2017 11:32:46 PM EDT
[#4]
Opposed the war? Why the shit would someone that opposes the war join the Army as an 11B with Option 40?
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Posted: 8/6/2017 11:34:00 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Military apparently knew it was friendly fire early on and did not disclose. I never heard the conspiracy theory that he was murdered. |
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Posted: 8/6/2017 11:36:13 PM EDT
[#6]
stonewall jackson died from friendly fire
it happens all the time in war the number of guys killed in WWII by friendly fire is enormous, literally hundreds of thousands, one estimate is 21% of all casualties people coming up with conspiracy theories isn't new either without evidence, it's just pie in the sky |
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Posted: 8/6/2017 11:38:07 PM EDT
[#7]
Gov't cover-up.
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Posted: 8/6/2017 11:40:04 PM EDT
[#8]
never heard that bullshit - that he was murdered.
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Posted: 8/6/2017 11:40:38 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Military apparently knew it was friendly fire early on and did not disclose. |
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Posted: 8/6/2017 11:40:52 PM EDT
[#10]
The controversy is how much certain people in the DoD knew and when and how much they deliberately covered up. No one that has half of a brain believes that he was murdered. That is absolute fake news before "fake news" was a thing.
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Posted: 8/6/2017 11:44:55 PM EDT
[#11]
The wiki article suggests friendly fire can not happen by accident up close... really? In the heat of war and fluid environment, mistakes can happen at all ranges.
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Posted: 8/6/2017 11:46:39 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not a service guy, but from what I have read and researched on the matter, this was not a case of murder. It was a case of government cover up and not owning up to fucking up. Some folks on here believe the government. |
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Posted: 8/6/2017 11:52:46 PM EDT
[#13]
If only there was a well researched book that covered the tragedy, and the Army's unforgivable cover-up, in depth.
Read "Where Men Win Glory". Pat was a pretty incredible person. Mcrystal, and the other staff officers who decided to lie about his death, are worthless cowards. |
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Posted: 8/6/2017 11:52:50 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not a service guy, but from what I have read and researched on the matter, this was not a case of murder. It was a case of government cover up and not owning up to fucking up. Not trying to defend the liars, but the worst job in the .mil is breaking bad news to loved ones..... imagine how much harder that is when our troops die as a result of a fuckup.... Again, this should have been resolved honestly, but somewhere along the chain of command the decision was made to gloss it over and tell a BS story to "save face". This shit ALL comes out in the wash, and the tough job of honesty is the only way to not have this bite you in the ass.... yet I am sure some occifers will do the same in the future... you know, for "optics". 
RIP Pat, and all other brave men and women who have laid down their lives for us. 
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Posted: 8/7/2017 1:28:45 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Opposed the war? Why the shit would someone that opposes the war join the Army as an 11B with Option 40? J- |
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Posted: 8/7/2017 1:33:01 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Gov't cover-up. |
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Posted: 8/7/2017 1:33:22 AM EDT
[#17]
Leftists lie.
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Posted: 8/7/2017 1:38:46 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The controversy is how much certain people in the DoD knew and when and how much they deliberately covered up. No one that has half of a brain believes that he was murdered. That is absolute fake news before "fake news" was a thing. |
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Posted: 8/7/2017 1:41:55 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Opposed the war? Why the shit would someone that opposes the war join the Army as an 11B with Option 40? |
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Posted: 8/7/2017 1:43:38 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. And fuck leftist trying to use this for politics. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The controversy is how much certain people in the DoD knew and when and how much they deliberately covered up. No one that has half of a brain believes that he was murdered. That is absolute fake news before "fake news" was a thing. |
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Posted: 8/7/2017 1:50:53 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tillman was a leftist and his family are leftists. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The controversy is how much certain people in the DoD knew and when and how much they deliberately covered up. No one that has half of a brain believes that he was murdered. That is absolute fake news before "fake news" was a thing. I won't comment on his family because I don't think that would be right. |
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Posted: 8/7/2017 1:51:13 AM EDT
[#22]
Fuck up killed him, then people involved actively tried to hide their fuckup including burning his uniform. Then people higher up in the COC covered up that fuckup and tossed around platitudes and medals to make their coverup stick. Then word got out.
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Posted: 8/7/2017 1:59:24 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fuck up killed him, then people involved actively tried to hide their fuckup including burning his uniform. Then people higher up in the COC covered up that fuckup and tossed around platitudes and medals to make their coverup stick. Then word got out. |
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Posted: 8/7/2017 2:06:01 AM EDT
[#24]
This case, among others, should make you question everything that comes from the DOD. They will lie and fabricate stories if they believe it will be good for recruiting or other reasons. Psyops are real.
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Posted: 8/7/2017 2:06:50 AM EDT
[#25]
I don't know the details, and never served. But Tillman was a genuine American Patriot.
Put a very lucrative personal career in the NFL to the side, to serve his country. I got nothing but respect for him. |
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Posted: 8/7/2017 2:19:17 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
that's what I understood: Army knew it was fratricide but tried to cover up and make him look like a hero. I never heard the conspiracy theory that he was murdered. |
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Posted: 8/7/2017 2:26:06 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tillman was a leftist and his family are leftists. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The controversy is how much certain people in the DoD knew and when and how much they deliberately covered up. No one that has half of a brain believes that he was murdered. That is absolute fake news before "fake news" was a thing. |
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Posted: 8/7/2017 2:29:41 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Opposed the war? Why the shit would someone that opposes the war join the Army as an 11B with Option 40? |
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Posted: 8/7/2017 3:03:16 AM EDT
[#29]
There was a documentary/movie made about Tillman. IIRC there was video of the ambush and they interviewed those serving next to him when he got hit (.50).
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Posted: 8/7/2017 3:53:31 AM EDT
[#30]
Pat was not a leftist, he was an Atheist. BIG difference. IIRC he was all about going to Afghanistan, but was not happy at all about going to Iraq. The NFL network did a very good "A football Life" about him, in which they actually talked about him not liking being in his unit, or AO (I can't remember off the top of my head) and wanting to come back to football when he was done with his years. He got killed on his last tour.
I have heard of the murder conspiracy, but I don't think anything came of it. The government wanted/needed a hero and used the incident to "create" one. Thing is, Pat, and his brother Kevin were already heroes. We all know what Pat left on the table, but everyone seems to forget that Kevin left baseball to join Pat in the fight against terror. From what I recall, Kevin was in AA ball with the Cleveland Indians, and had a good shot at the Big Show. I remember seeing what those two did like it was yesterday. Everyone in shock, that people would give up millions to fight for their country. Something people of my generation never saw. True fucking heroes. From what the "real" report states, is that Pat was in convoy 1 , and Kevin in convoy 2. Coms were shit going through this pass, so communication was minimal between both convoys. Pat's convoy exited their vehicle's and went up top of a ridge. They got into a fire fight, and Pat was killed. I can not remember if we killed from the guys with him, or the convoy below, mistaking the guys up top as bad guys. Either way Kevin found out Pat was killed, and knew from the get go that he was killed by fratricide. If you saw Pat's funeral, Kevin gets on stage, chugs a beer and says "Pats dead. He's fucking gone" then walks off. This was when we were still being told that Pat was killed by insurgents, and not friendly fire. Kevin, at that point, was basically on an order of silence, and was so pissed off, that's all he could say at his own brothers funeral. 
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Posted: 8/7/2017 4:20:54 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
that's what I understood: Army knew it was fratricide but tried to cover up and make him look like a hero. I never heard the conspiracy theory that he was murdered. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Military apparently knew it was friendly fire early on and did not disclose. I never heard the conspiracy theory that he was murdered. |
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Posted: 8/7/2017 4:40:43 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pat was not a leftist, he was an Atheist. BIG difference. IIRC he was all about going to Afghanistan, but was not happy at all about going to Iraq. The NFL network did a very good "A football Life" about him, in which they actually talked about him not liking being in his unit, or AO (I can't remember off the top of my head) and wanting to come back to football when he was done with his years. He got killed on his last tour. I have heard of the murder conspiracy, but I don't think anything came of it. The government wanted/needed a hero and used the incident to "create" one. Thing is, Pat, and his brother Kevin were already heroes. We all know what Pat left on the table, but everyone seems to forget that Kevin left baseball to join Pat in the fight against terror. From what I recall, Kevin was in AA ball with the Cleveland Indians, and had a good shot at the Big Show. I remember seeing what those two did like it was yesterday. Everyone in shock, that people would give up millions to fight for their country. Something people of my generation never saw. True fucking heroes. From what the "real" report states, is that Pat was in convoy 1 , and Kevin in convoy 2. Coms were shit going through this pass, so communication was minimal between both convoys. Pat's convoy exited their vehicle's and went up top of a ridge. They got into a fire fight, and Pat was killed. I can not remember if we killed from the guys with him, or the convoy below, mistaking the guys up top as bad guys. Either way Kevin found out Pat was killed, and knew from the get go that he was killed by fratricide. If you saw Pat's funeral, Kevin gets on stage, chugs a beer and says "Pats dead. He's fucking gone" then walks off. This was when we were still being told that Pat was killed by insurgents, and not friendly fire. Kevin, at that point, was basically on an order of silence, and was so pissed off, that's all he could say at his own brothers funeral. |
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Posted: 8/7/2017 4:42:36 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tillman was a leftist and his family are leftists. 
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Posted: 8/7/2017 4:44:40 AM EDT
[#34]
Pat Tillman, Jessica Lynch, Bowe Bergdahl. I wonder how many fake war heroes there are. Probably most of them.
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Posted: 8/7/2017 4:55:01 AM EDT
[#35]
Pat was at in-processing at Benning while I was going through AIT. We got word that the NCO's (mostly DS's) were giving him shit and smoking him, a lot. He was an athletic phenomenon and took everything they could throw at him. When he got to his training unit, the training cadre simmered right the fuck down. He gave a lot to be there and didn't deserve any "extra attention".
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Posted: 8/7/2017 5:32:23 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Opposed the war? Why the shit would someone that opposes the war join the Army as an 11B with Option 40? |
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Posted: 8/7/2017 5:33:20 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The controversy is how much certain people in the DoD knew and when and how much they deliberately covered up. No one that has half of a brain believes that he was murdered. That is absolute fake news before "fake news" was a thing. |
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Posted: 8/7/2017 5:34:14 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The wiki article suggests friendly fire can not happen by accident up close... really? In the heat of war and fluid environment, mistakes can happen at all ranges. They were simply mistaken for bad guys and the guys engaging them had no way of PIDing who/what they were shooting at. |
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Posted: 8/7/2017 5:34:17 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you saw Pat's funeral, Kevin gets on stage, chugs a beer and says "Pats dead. He's fucking gone" then walks off. This was when we were still being told that Pat was killed by insurgents, and not friendly fire. Kevin, at that point, was basically on an order of silence, and was so pissed off, that's all he could say at his own brothers funeral. He then (Richard) was paraded around left-wing outlets like Bill Maher's Real Time like he was a hero himself. |
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Posted: 8/7/2017 5:34:33 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tillman was a leftist and his family are leftists. 
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Posted: 8/7/2017 5:37:45 AM EDT
[#41]
FPNI
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Posted: 8/7/2017 6:00:22 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Military apparently knew it was friendly fire early on and did not disclose. |
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Posted: 8/7/2017 6:43:09 AM EDT
[#43]
I was in my 20s & remember the controversy regarding Tillman:
The "poster boy," as the MSM reported was initially reported as "died valiantly fighting the enemy." In a few days, maybe a week, it turned into a "breaking story--Pat Tillman killed by friendly fire" and it was simply reported his team of Rangers was mistaken for the enemy. The focus back then from the MSM was about transponders that clearly ID friend from foe, and why weren't US soldiers & our allies given such tech, as it certainly existed. The obvious issue of th enemy taking it from dead soldiers was the hot topic--NOTHING about him being disgruntled. So, just like Snopes, Wikipedia is FOS. Caveat emptor. |
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Posted: 8/7/2017 7:00:39 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Opposed the war? Why the shit would someone that opposes the war join the Army as an 11B with Option 40? |
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Posted: 8/7/2017 8:00:28 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Tillman was a leftist and his family are leftists. |
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Posted: 8/7/2017 8:20:25 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Opposed the war? Why the shit would someone that opposes the war join the Army as an 11B with Option 40? |
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Posted: 8/7/2017 8:55:46 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pat Tillman, Jessica Lynch, Bowe Bergdahl. I wonder how many fake war heroes there are. Probably most of them. gun site because I said her story was full of shit while everyone else was praising her as a war hero so we got into a very nasty argument. didn't take long for the truth to come out and I was right. |
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Posted: 8/7/2017 9:01:46 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I saw the uniform burning bit on Wikipedia. What was the purpose of that? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Fuck up killed him, then people involved actively tried to hide their fuckup including burning his uniform. Then people higher up in the COC covered up that fuckup and tossed around platitudes and medals to make their coverup stick. Then word got out. He got lit up by a 50 while walking with armed (friendly) afghans. Frankly, the story was best left alone. He died in war. All the digging doesn't make it better. A comforting story for his family could have brought closure that they won't get now. There is a reason commanding officers write letters about how bravely their son fought...not how he died crying for his mom. Closure for the living... |
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Posted: 8/7/2017 9:11:14 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
His gear was treated as bio hazard...because it was. He got lit up by a 50 while walking with armed (friendly) afghans. Frankly, the story was best left alone. He died in war. All the digging doesn't make it better. A comforting story for his family could have brought closure that they won't get now. There is a reason commanding officers write letters about how bravely their son fought...not how he died crying for his mom. Closure for the living... Do you think he would have just let the lie continue? |
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Posted: 8/7/2017 9:18:09 AM EDT
[#50]
So Chris Matthews thinks Tillman was anti-war/anti-bush and was about to go public with his feelings so his fellow soldiers murdered him to protect Bush's "propaganda pyramid"?
Fuckin lol |
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