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Posted: 6/26/2003 3:41:59 PM EDT
[#1]
Many cops I meet don't know what caliber they are carrying. They are there to 'help people', and would rather ditch the gun if they could.
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Posted: 6/26/2003 3:48:54 PM EDT
[#2]
It's reeeeaaallly spooky how little so many cops know about their gubs and their duty rounds.
On 9/11, 20 minutes after the attack, we were told to get our gear and be ready to go for whatever comes up. The PD driving instructors go to their lockers, get their duty belts and take out their Sigs. One guy in the locker near mine pulls out the mags and looks at them. There is a green oxidized looking layer of crud on all the rounds in each of his two mags. I asked him when the last time he rotated his rounds was. He replied "Rotated? I loaded these in '92 when we went from the revolver to the Sig. I havent touched them since." A police officer. Scary. |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 3:53:43 PM EDT
[#3]
I chatted with a Denver PD officer once..
I noticed he was carrying a Berreta. So I asked him "what ya packin?" his response "Berreta" me: What model? him: "All I know is it's a Berretta" [rolleyes] |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 3:55:25 PM EDT
[#4]
Around here, the PD only gives their officers 100 rounds a month for practice. They choose the two models of hand guns for their officers, H&K USP .45 or a Glock 21 .45. Picture a 5ft 120lb female officer carrying a Glock 21, now picture a grip the size of a 2x4 in her petite little hand, having only shot 100 rounds a month, if she even requested her practice ammo, taking a %5 shot in a crowded shopping mall. The officers are all crying that they need M-16's because of potential terrorism, ah yes Lubbock Texas comes to mind. No long ago a cop was running his cruiser thru the carwash, his 12ga 870 in the rack behind his head. He was stretching himself by pulling on the shotgun and blew a whole thru the side of his cruiser. Now the department made them pull all the buckshot out of their shotguns and load them with beanbag rounds.
I am not cop bashing, I have a number of cop friends and soon to be cop bro-in-law and they bust their ass, put up with so much shit that it's ridiculous. Some of the problem is with their departments, not enough training, not regular enough training, not properly equiped, I don't know how they do it, most cops are big baby sitters having dealing with the low life scum every day. You have to have some kind of patience to be a cop and accept those rare occurances where you make a difference to cover for all the bullshit you deal with daily. |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 3:58:54 PM EDT
[#5]
My favorite story(ies) are about cops that would get their issue weapon and clean it, and tighten [i]all[/i] the screws on it. Including the adjustable sight screws. I saw a rear sight on a .357 that was all the way over to the far right side of the sight base as far as it could go. !!
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Posted: 6/26/2003 4:37:08 PM EDT
[#6]
Unfortunately it's just not what some of them are interested in.
The range I belonged to in NY had an orientation class. The guy explained how non-range people would shoot in the back hills behind the range all the time but the range would get in trouble for a stray. One story was a cop showed up at the range and asked to see the range officer. He walks up to the cop and the cop says one of the neighbors found a bullet on thier property and wanted to file a complaint. Range officer asked to see the slug and the cop produced it. The RO then says, "Wow that's a hell of a throw!" The cop is confused and asks what he means. RO explains what the cop has in his hands is a fully loaded cartridge, never fired and looked like it was right out of the box. It's very scary sometimes. But then again, they're just people with their own interests. But you really do have to wonder sometimes. I mean, did the cop ever even load his own pistol to not know the difference between a fired slug and a full cartridge? |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 4:54:10 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: I had one of our cops come up to me today and hand me a box of S&B 9mm. She asked if it was good ammo. I asked for what use. She said for defense. I told her no, hardball in any caliber sucks against people. If she wants to carry her 9 off duty she needs to get 115gr CorBon. After thinking about the conversation and realizing the bitch has stabbed me in the back several times I should have told her Wolf 9mm hardball is the best defense ammo out there. You think your basic cop would know you need hollowpoints for defense work. [noclue] You might want to rethink that 115 gr. CorBon recommendation. Light and fast ain't *the thing* anymore, apparently. As Doc Roberts says, "The 115 gr loads are NOT generally good choices, as they often exhibit deficient terminal performance, with underpentration, failures to expand, and poor intermediate barrier penetration characteristics." [url]http://64.177.53.248/ubb/Forum78/HTML/000367.html[/url] Consider this info: [url]http://64.177.53.248/ubb/Forum78/HTML/000149.html[/url] Or, read this info here: [url]http://www.firearmstactical.com/wound.htm[/url] Stay safe! |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 4:56:26 PM EDT
[#8]
Fortunately most of the cops that I deal with know their guns. In fact every time I talk to a couple of them they are just getting back from a hunting trip or about to leave on one. Seems they spend more time in the fields some months than on the streets. It may just be my experience, but it seems the later in the day they work, ie. swing or night shift, the more familiar they are with what they are carrying. I always end up in conversations about weapons and carry equipment with the afternoon and night guys, but almost never with the day guys.
Now about gun laws, that is a different story. Several didn't have the first clue what a CHL holder could or couldn't do. |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 5:27:07 PM EDT
[#9]
If you are in Maricopa county Arizona stay on the straight and narrow. The rule in Maricopa seems to be if LEOs shoot, they don't stop till their out of rounds.
If you survive it's "Tent City",not a nice place from what I see on TV. From what I have seen here in Arizona (Pinal County). The range next to our city range and at our city range is well used in training marksmanship and senarios. The Border Patrol,county,DPS and city are VERY well aquainted with their weapons. It seems everytime I go to the range when it is not warm (>105), one agency or another is there practiceing. Even with ARs. Keep it up Arizona. |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 5:53:11 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: Unfortunately it's just not what some of them are interested in. The range I belonged to in NY had an orientation class. The guy explained how non-range people would shoot in the back hills behind the range all the time but the range would get in trouble for a stray. One story was a cop showed up at the range and asked to see the range officer. He walks up to the cop and the cop says one of the neighbors found a bullet on thier property and wanted to file a complaint. Range officer asked to see the slug and the cop produced it. The RO then says, "Wow that's a hell of a throw!" The cop is confused and asks what he means. RO explains what the cop has in his hands is a fully loaded cartridge, never fired and looked like it was right out of the box. It's very scary sometimes. But then again, they're just people with their own interests. But you really do have to wonder sometimes. I mean, did the cop ever even load his own pistol to not know the difference between a fired slug and a full cartridge? You made that up....Right?![ROFL2] Please tell me you made that up! |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 6:51:39 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: Quoted: Unfortunately it's just not what some of them are interested in. The range I belonged to in NY had an orientation class. The guy explained how non-range people would shoot in the back hills behind the range all the time but the range would get in trouble for a stray. One story was a cop showed up at the range and asked to see the range officer. He walks up to the cop and the cop says one of the neighbors found a bullet on thier property and wanted to file a complaint. Range officer asked to see the slug and the cop produced it. The RO then says, "Wow that's a hell of a throw!" The cop is confused and asks what he means. RO explains what the cop has in his hands is a fully loaded cartridge, never fired and looked like it was right out of the box. It's very scary sometimes. But then again, they're just people with their own interests. But you really do have to wonder sometimes. I mean, did the cop ever even load his own pistol to not know the difference between a fired slug and a full cartridge? You made that up....Right?![ROFL2] Please tell me you made that up! I didn't make it up. I did get who told it wrong, it was actually the guy's wife who was also one of the instructors at the orientation. She was talking about the problems the range has had with the neighbors and the let loose with a few interesting stories that have plagued them. I have no reason to believe she was making it up. |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 8:20:15 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: If you are in Maricopa county Arizona stay on the straight and narrow. The rule in Maricopa seems to be if LEOs shoot, they don't stop till their out of rounds. If you survive it's "Tent City",not a nice place from what I see on TV. From what I have seen here in Arizona (Pinal County). The range next to our city range and at our city range is well used in training marksmanship and senarios. The Border Patrol,county,DPS and city are VERY well aquainted with their weapons. It seems everytime I go to the range when it is not warm (>105), one agency or another is there practiceing. Even with ARs. Keep it up Arizona. No, the fun part is at the MCSO range when TOU is there training us. Shoothouse anyone? All though, there have been a few shooting matches that I beat all the LEO's there...there was also one where they beat the snot out of me... |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 8:43:46 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Unfortunately it's just not what some of them are interested in. The range I belonged to in NY had an orientation class. The guy explained how non-range people would shoot in the back hills behind the range all the time but the range would get in trouble for a stray. One story was a cop showed up at the range and asked to see the range officer. He walks up to the cop and the cop says one of the neighbors found a bullet on thier property and wanted to file a complaint. Range officer asked to see the slug and the cop produced it. The RO then says, "Wow that's a hell of a throw!" The cop is confused and asks what he means. RO explains what the cop has in his hands is a fully loaded cartridge, never fired and looked like it was right out of the box. It's very scary sometimes. But then again, they're just people with their own interests. But you really do have to wonder sometimes. I mean, did the cop ever even load his own pistol to not know the difference between a fired slug and a full cartridge? You made that up....Right?![ROFL2] Please tell me you made that up! I didn't make it up. I did get who told it wrong, it was actually the guy's wife who was also one of the instructors at the orientation. She was talking about the problems the range has had with the neighbors and the let loose with a few interesting stories that have plagued them. I have no reason to believe she was making it up. That [i]is[/i] scary![:)] |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 9:07:59 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: ... After thinking about the conversation and realizing the bitch has stabbed me in the back several times I should have told her Wolf 9mm hardball is the best defense ammo out there… I don’t know – giving somebody bad info that, while unlikely, could ultimately result in their injury or death is not something I’d want hanging over my head. I kinda suspect you’re joking anyway. You absolutely did the right thing. Actually, I’m amazed that so many folks here are surprised that many LEO’s don’t know firearms. Being a former part-time firearms instructor, there’s certainly [b]no[/b] doubt in my mind. I recall once when a young lady was having repeated malfunctions with her Sig during a low light drill – turned out she had loaded the ammo backwards in her magazine!! I recall a different young lady who got her thumb firmly caught in an 870 loading port while reloading it during a live fire drill. I had to disassemble it to separate the two!! I also recall a Sig transition class where I repeatedly told a student to keep his hand away from the ejection port when cycling the slide or the thing was going to bite him. Surely enough, later that day he walked up to me in obvious pain with the Sig hanging from the palm of his hand like a snapping turtle! I could go on and on!! Nope - no doubt in my mind! |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 10:02:58 PM EDT
[#15]
I won't mention any names, but a local PD had a female officer that worked a couple days a month. She gets a car vs. deer crash and responds to the crash. When she arrives, the deer needs to be destroyed. She tells the operator of the vehicle, that hit the deer, that she can't shoot the deer and hands her Smith and Wesson Auto to the guy that hit the deer and let's him shoot the deer!!!! These are the kind of people that are in L.E. today. Luckily, he didn't then turn the weapon her. |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 10:29:19 PM EDT
[#16]
When I was a brand new officer I had to put down a dog. It was rabid and I had it cornered about 3 yards away. There were a couple of citizens there watching one of which had the old
grizzled hunter look. I was so nervous when I shot I missed. He just looked at me with kind of a disgusted look and said "You missed." Pretty embarassing. |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 10:31:08 PM EDT
[#17]
The most dangerous times at the range are when hunters or Leos are there.
Sgtar15 |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 10:33:01 PM EDT
[#18]
Just last week, while visiting the local gunshop/copstop, I was inquiring on prices for an aimpoint. Employee asks me,"what is the aimpoint going on?" My Bushmaster AR15, I replied while a BSO deputy hunkers down to the counter right next to me. BSO deputy looks at me and says, "What department are you with?" I replied I am not an LEO. Then he utters, "You can't own an AR15, those became illegal almost 10 years ago." The store employee and I advised him of the truth. I was amazed that he jumped into the conversation and I thought he was being facetious for a moment. Once I made eye contact with him, I realized he was thinking he was on to something. Over the past month, a couple of LE agencies have had Ar15's stolen from police property. The two cases garnered plenty of local media coverage. I was amazed at his ignorance of the laws which he is responsible to uphold. He would have shit himself and drawn his pistol on me if I had brought my M4 to the shop with me that day, and then finds out i'm not a LEO! That'd suck for him, imagine the scene in the shop with this guy wanting to falsely arrest me.
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Posted: 6/26/2003 10:36:51 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: The most dangerous times at the range are when hunters or Leos are there. Sgtar15 That is such a rare event, that you just call ahead and make sure it's not their time of the year.[:D] |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 10:43:09 PM EDT
[#20]
True AR10er, rarely do I go to the range in Sept for that reason.
Sgtar15 |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 11:27:15 PM EDT
[#21]
the sad thing is most departments really can't afford anymore than the few practice rounds given. Sure the officer could find the incentive to buy his own ammo, but...
The local sheriffs department just laid off 6 deputies and cut their explorer unit because of funding.. |
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Posted: 6/27/2003 12:14:58 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: Quoted: ... After thinking about the conversation and realizing the bitch has stabbed me in the back several times I should have told her Wolf 9mm hardball is the best defense ammo out there… I don’t know – giving somebody bad info that, while unlikely, could ultimately result in their injury or death is not something I’d want hanging over my head. I kinda suspect you’re joking anyway. You absolutely did the right thing. Actually, I’m amazed that so many folks here are surprised that many LEO’s don’t know firearms. Being a former part-time firearms instructor, there’s certainly [b]no[/b] doubt in my mind. I recall once when a young lady was having repeated malfunctions with her Sig during a low light drill – turned out she had loaded the ammo backwards in her magazine!! I recall a different young lady who got her thumb firmly caught in an 870 loading port while reloading it during a live fire drill. I had to disassemble it to separate the two!! I also recall a Sig transition class where I repeatedly told a student to keep his hand away from the ejection port when cycling the slide or the thing was going to bite him. Surely enough, later that day he walked up to me in obvious pain with the Sig hanging from the palm of his hand like a snapping turtle! I could go on and on!! Nope - no doubt in my mind! Yes my tongue was in my cheek. I would not give somebody bad info on defense. (even if it make my life easier) |
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Posted: 6/27/2003 12:17:06 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: Quoted: The most dangerous times at the range are when hunters or Leos are there. Sgtar15 That is such a rare event, that you just call ahead and make sure it's not their time of the year.[:D] [LOL] If you only knew! |
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Posted: 6/27/2003 12:24:16 AM EDT
[#24]
Did I ever mention the female officer who couldn't believe that a long gun could be purchased and not be in a registry?
She wasn't talking about a 4473, she thought she should be able to look up a person's squirrel gun or have dispatch do it. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say a lot of this firearm ignorance / indifference is due to AA. Partly because though it may attract some true professionals, it is more likely to bring in people who don't have especially high standards. I can't say for sure, some P.O.'s may want to speak to this, but in the process, perhaps the departmental standards have also been "dumbed down". And does this give the professional officers much incentive to stick around, knowing they are not competing on a level playing field? |
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Posted: 6/27/2003 1:12:10 AM EDT
[#25]
Given a choise between the under penetrating 115Gn JHP verses a ball load that I know will reach the vitals from any angle, I'll take ball.
Lucky I'm not limited to those choises, so my 9mm's are loaded with Win Ranger 147Gn RA9T |
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Posted: 6/27/2003 3:18:26 AM EDT
[#26]
This is really personal preferance. Self defense I like HP first few rounds followed by FMJ for penetration. Kind of stop and then follow.
BTW, there are one hell of alot of dead soldiers that would if they could argue FMJ sucks against people. |
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Posted: 6/27/2003 4:57:42 AM EDT
[#27]
Your average perp with a gun carries ball. (unless at the time the gun was stolen it was loaded with HP's) Why? because it's the cheapest stuff at Wal Mart.
That said, when they manage to hit somebody they kill them more often than not. I just wish they'd realize that birdshot is not really an effective drive-by round, even if it is under 3$ a box. |
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Posted: 6/27/2003 8:58:46 AM EDT
[#28]
From what you guys say about some cops, I know more about guns than they do. I'm at the ripe old age of 15!
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Posted: 6/27/2003 11:24:34 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: From what you guys say about some cops, I know more about guns than they do. I'm at the ripe old age of 15! The key is, "some". |
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Posted: 6/28/2003 5:28:25 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: From what you guys say about some cops, I know more about guns than they do. I'm at the ripe old age of 15! I can point to a lot of people of any career field that knows a heck of a lot more about guns than any 15 year old. |
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Posted: 6/28/2003 5:45:00 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: You think your basic cop would know you need hollowpoints for defense work. [noclue] Is this your "basic cop", or is she your "basic affirmative action" employee?? I wouldn't like the idea, that my backup, or partner, was there for "diversity" in the workplace!! [:D] |
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Posted: 6/28/2003 6:00:45 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: Your average perp with a gun carries ball. (unless at the time the gun was stolen it was loaded with HP's) Why? because it's the cheapest stuff at Wal Mart. That said, when they manage to hit somebody they kill them more often than not. [red]I just wish they'd realize that birdshot is not really an effective drive-by round, even if it is under 3$ a box[/red]. Maybe next time you drive through the "Hood", you could just "drop" a few box's of hollowpoints!!! [:D] |
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Posted: 6/28/2003 2:28:42 PM EDT
[#33]
"Is this your "basic cop", or is she your "basic affirmative action" employee?? I wouldn't like the idea, that my backup, or partner, was there for "diversity" in the workplace!!"
Yes to the 1st and yes to why she is a supervisor. |
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