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Posted: 10/17/2016 9:48:58 PM EDT
The Micro Draco isn't, because it's a heaping pile of shit. .223/5.56 sucks dick when it comes from a 7.5"-11.5" because it never has a chance for velocity. It never even has its gun. As the proud owner of 6 Colt 6920s with no furniture or trigger time and numerous AR-15s that have been liquidated for medical bills, I can say that I'm a proponent of the .223/5.56. They all have 16.1" barrels, though, which means that they're actually useful.
If you have something that's less than 14.5", then you're basically carrying a cancer patient in the form of a gun. It's an anemic, key-holing safe filler that you'll occasionally take out to show your friends so that you can feel better about spending $200 on a tax stamp for an ineffective weapon. Or you'll just have Shockwave on it; in that case, you'll feel bad for spending ~$50. Here's some objective information regarding your velocity: 
Notice how it excludes oddball lengths like 7.5"; that's because they're not even worth time on a chrono. 
But the Mini Draco, even in a non-NFA registered configuration, offers a compact PDW in a time proven design. Also, your weapon will actually work when it's equipped with a side folding stock. 
Notice the velocity numbers from the Draco (which is slightly longer, but we'll lie and say that the Micro Draco has the same numbers. Energy has also been excluded from this chart because you already know that it's pretty high, so we don't need numbers: 
Since 7.62x39 isn't as dependent on velocity as .223/5.56, the Micro Draco has a formidable advantage over similarly sized weapons. At a street price of $499-599, it offers an immense amount of value, fun, time, commitment, joy, compact, and wholehearted goodness that you won't find in any other platform. |
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Posted: 10/17/2016 9:50:32 PM EDT
[#1]
Ok then
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Posted: 10/17/2016 9:52:34 PM EDT
[#2]
It has it's advantages....fits in a smaller trashcan.
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Posted: 10/17/2016 9:53:01 PM EDT
[#3]
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Posted: 10/17/2016 9:54:59 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It has it's advantages....fits in a smaller trashcan. Wastebasket gun. |
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Posted: 10/17/2016 9:56:02 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
Notice the velocity numbers from the Draco (which is slightly longer, but we'll lie and say that the Micro Draco has the same numbers. Energy has also been excluded from this chart because you already know that it's pretty high, so we don't need numbers: LOL |
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Posted: 10/17/2016 9:56:15 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It has it's advantages....fits in a smaller trashcan. Wastebasket gun. Edit: Dammit beat! |
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Posted: 10/17/2016 9:56:19 PM EDT
[#7]
I never met anyone with a mini-Draco that retained my respect.
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Posted: 10/17/2016 9:56:23 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It has it's advantages....fits in a smaller trashcan.  
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Posted: 10/17/2016 10:00:48 PM EDT
[#9]
That's not a PDW; this is a PDW.
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Posted: 10/17/2016 10:01:33 PM EDT
[#10]
Nice garbage gun.
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Posted: 10/17/2016 10:03:18 PM EDT
[#11]
Bro, do you even .300BLK?
AKs are range toys for the first world. |
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Posted: 10/17/2016 10:03:23 PM EDT
[#12]
That's why 300BLK exists. - ETA beat by 5 seconds.
This thread is bad and you should feel bad. |
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Posted: 10/17/2016 10:06:14 PM EDT
[#13]
As someone who has actually spent a good bit of time chronographing short barrels
including 7.5 inch 7.62x39 I'll say on average 7.62x39mm runs 1,950 fps from a 7.5 inch barrel 5.56x45mm works fine from short barrels if you pick the right load......load selection is critical. Hornady actually makes a dedicated SBR load in their LE line for use in very short barrels and developed a specialized projectile and uses a dedicated powder. Muzzle flash off a 7.5 inch 7.62x39mm is thermonuclear in bright daylight........ |
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Posted: 10/17/2016 10:06:43 PM EDT
[#14]
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Posted: 10/17/2016 10:07:02 PM EDT
[#15]
I luv my mini & micro Draco's.
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Posted: 10/17/2016 10:07:22 PM EDT
[#16]
The drop in velocity from 11.5" to 7.5" is substantial.
Not a practical firearm due to noise, blast, and sight radius. |
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Posted: 10/17/2016 10:07:47 PM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 10/17/2016 10:09:03 PM EDT
[#18]
My 7.5" AR pistol covers the role just fine.
Of course, it is at home with my full size AR's, and since I don't drive to work, if I needed a rifle, I'm grabbing my 16" AR. |
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Posted: 10/17/2016 10:09:30 PM EDT
[#19]
If I am shopping for a PDW (or scuba gear, parachutes, etc.), "affordability" is not one of my prime considerations.
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Posted: 10/17/2016 10:11:18 PM EDT
[#20]
My 11.5 AR pistol loaded with Fusions farts in your general direction
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Posted: 10/17/2016 10:12:05 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
If you have something that's less than 14.5", then you're basically carrying a cancer patient in the form of a gun. It's an anemic, key-holing safe filler that you'll occasionally take out to show your friends so that you can feel better about spending $200 on a tax stamp for an ineffective weapon. Or you'll just have Shockwave on it; in that case, you'll feel bad for spending ~$50. Here's some objective information regarding your velocity: You are super smart. Would you please get a hold of all of the manufactures that offer weapons in less than a 14.5"? Also, please get a class together so you can teach the police, SWAT, and spec ops that use short barreled weapons. Your knowledge and experience would be a great asset in the training community. I'll be back in a few. Need to go find a new upper for my Colt work gun. |
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Posted: 10/17/2016 10:13:00 PM EDT
[#22]
Mini Draco used indoors= instant hearing loss
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Posted: 10/17/2016 10:13:48 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
The Micro Draco isn't, because it's a heaping pile of shit. .223/5.56 sucks dick when it comes from a 7.5"-11.5" because it never has a chance for velocity. It never even has its gun. As the proud owner of 6 Colt 6920s with no furniture or trigger time and numerous AR-15s that have been liquidated for medical bills, I can say that I'm a proponent of the .223/5.56. They all have 16.1" barrels, though, which means that they're actually useful. If you have something that's less than 14.5", then you're basically carrying a cancer patient in the form of a gun. It's an anemic, key-holing safe filler that you'll occasionally take out to show your friends so that you can feel better about spending $200 on a tax stamp for an ineffective weapon. Or you'll just have Shockwave on it; in that case, you'll feel bad for spending ~$50. Here's some objective information regarding your velocity: http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f41/Mazer18/velocity.jpg Notice how it excludes oddball lengths like 7.5"; that's because they're not even worth time on a chrono. http://www.operator7airsoft.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/larry-vickers.jpg But the Mini Draco, even in a non-NFA registered configuration, offers a compact PDW in a time proven design. Also, your weapon will actually work when it's equipped with a side folding stock. http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae74/joliandthai/20151127_205524_zpsmfmcwcme.jpg Notice the velocity numbers from the Draco (which is slightly longer, but we'll lie and say that the Micro Draco has the same numbers. Energy has also been excluded from this chart because you already know that it's pretty high, so we don't need numbers: http://i810.photobucket.com/albums/zz28/pogi_pogi_pogi/762x39Velocities1.png Since 7.62x39 isn't as dependent on velocity as .223/5.56, the Micro Draco has a formidable advantage over similarly sized weapons. At a street price of $499-599, it offers an immense amount of value, fun, time, commitment, joy, compact, and wholehearted goodness that you won't find in any other platform. This is nice Honey... 
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Posted: 10/17/2016 10:14:19 PM EDT
[#24]
Normal Draco or no Draco.
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Posted: 10/17/2016 10:15:28 PM EDT
[#25]
There are two useful articles in the current Book of the AK47 annual now out on store shelves
which cover short barrel 7.62x39mm velocities with a variety of modern loads and 7.62x39mm gel testing at Black Hills ballistic lab we also ran M43 ball and 7N6 over doppler radar to find their true ballistic coefficients........... |
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Posted: 10/17/2016 10:15:44 PM EDT
[#26]
The 7.62x39 is really the only sorta-affordable round that works in short platforms.
You can get 5.56 that works fine, or .300, but you're going to be paying 2-4x as much per round. The downside is that something like the Draco is going to be obscenely loud. I'll keep my blackout. |
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Posted: 10/17/2016 10:16:01 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If I am shopping for a PDW (or scuba gear, parachutes, etc.), "affordability" is not one of my prime considerations. You talking shit on my LCP? I consider my primary carry gun my PDW, since it's the weapon I have on me for personal defense.
LCP is primary when I'm having back issues, Glock 23, 27, or my 9mm Shield is my normal carry gun. |
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Posted: 10/17/2016 10:16:16 PM EDT
[#28]
I actually like AKs but Id trust my life with a 10.5" 556 without hesitation if its a reliable gun
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Posted: 10/17/2016 10:16:40 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryThe MP7A1 is unavailable to civilians and for good reason. We all know that’s technology no civvies should ever get to lay their hands on. This is a purpose-built weapon with no sporting applications to speak of. It is made to put down scumbags, and that’s it. |
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Posted: 10/17/2016 10:17:00 PM EDT
[#30]
Everybody knows that you can't effectively defend yourself with a short, more concealable piece packing nearly 30/30 ballistics.
Heck, ever since .223 and .300WM were invented, 30/30 won't even drop a 50 lb fawn anymore. |
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Posted: 10/17/2016 10:18:18 PM EDT
[#31]
I will be doing a F/A SBR conversion shortly.
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Posted: 10/17/2016 10:18:45 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Everybody knows that you can't effectively defend yourself with a short, more concealable piece packing nearly 30/30 ballistics. Heck, ever since .223 and .300WM were invented, 30/30 won't even drop a 50 lb fawn anymore. |
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Posted: 10/17/2016 10:19:09 PM EDT
[#33]
OP, what is that hand guard on their? |
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Posted: 10/17/2016 10:20:07 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You are super smart. Would you please get a hold of all of the manufactures that offer weapons in less than a 14.5"? Also, please get a class together so you can teach the police, SWAT, and spec ops that use short barreled weapons. Your knowledge and experience would be a great asset in the training community. I'll be back in a few. Need to go find a new upper for my Colt work gun. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If you have something that's less than 14.5", then you're basically carrying a cancer patient in the form of a gun. It's an anemic, key-holing safe filler that you'll occasionally take out to show your friends so that you can feel better about spending $200 on a tax stamp for an ineffective weapon. Or you'll just have Shockwave on it; in that case, you'll feel bad for spending ~$50. Here's some objective information regarding your velocity: You are super smart. Would you please get a hold of all of the manufactures that offer weapons in less than a 14.5"? Also, please get a class together so you can teach the police, SWAT, and spec ops that use short barreled weapons. Your knowledge and experience would be a great asset in the training community. I'll be back in a few. Need to go find a new upper for my Colt work gun. SMH at teener OP who can't afford a nice gun so extolls the virtues of a novelty AK that exactly ZERO forces around the world use, yet shits on the most prolific and ubiquitous special forces configuration around the world.  |
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Posted: 10/17/2016 10:20:50 PM EDT
[#35]
i want a krinkov.
and "Gardener" had a sweet AK SBR he posted a couple years back. edit: link to the thread here. |
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Posted: 10/17/2016 10:21:07 PM EDT
[#36]
the sight radius of a Derringer |
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Posted: 10/17/2016 10:21:07 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It has it's advantages....fits in a smaller trashcan. |
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Posted: 10/17/2016 10:21:16 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The MP7A1 is unavailable to civilians and for good reason. We all know that’s technology no civvies should ever get to lay their hands on. This is a purpose-built weapon with no sporting applications to speak of. It is made to put down scumbags, and that’s it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
The MP7A1 is unavailable to civilians and for good reason. We all know that’s technology no civvies should ever get to lay their hands on. This is a purpose-built weapon with no sporting applications to speak of. It is made to put down scumbags, and that’s it. Jerry Tsai approves of your public service message!!
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Posted: 10/17/2016 10:22:49 PM EDT
[#39]
Bullshit.
Micro FTW 
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Posted: 10/17/2016 10:23:17 PM EDT
[#40]
Lol
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Posted: 10/17/2016 10:24:27 PM EDT
[#41]
Just for size reference.
. 
, 
. 
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Posted: 10/17/2016 10:24:42 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My 11.5 AR pistol loaded with Fusions farts in your general direction Your 11.5 AR pistol with Fusions (MSR) is getting expansion out to ~300yds. Standard Fusion I'm not sure, ~250ish? I wouldn't call that ineffective in the slightest. The answer is proper ammo selection. Yes, if you stick with turd M193 and M855 ammo, shorty AR's suck. But there is SO MUCH MORE out there these days for SD ammo. That's not even mentioning .300BLK...AKA 7.62X35, AKA modern American AK round. My 8" CMMG barreled PDW holds 1.2 MOA all day long @ 100yds with Barnes Blacktips. My Noveske 10.5" BLK about the same... OP is smokin crack, or just too cheap to spend the time and money to find effective weapon/ammo combos. |
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Posted: 10/17/2016 10:24:46 PM EDT
[#43]
Thread needs more short barrel 54R..............
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Posted: 10/17/2016 10:24:56 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryAr....A....Are those polaroids of taylor swift? That pic is some WEAPONS GRADE AUTISM right there!
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Posted: 10/17/2016 10:26:26 PM EDT
[#45]
I've wanted a Draco for a while now.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 10/17/2016 10:28:00 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryI guess its cheaper than having your arms waxed. 
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Posted: 10/17/2016 10:28:09 PM EDT
[#47]
Couple a Mini's and a Micro in the middle
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Posted: 10/17/2016 10:29:51 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thread needs more short barrel 54R.............. https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/43/38/28/4338282aff60dab8a4661ead08ab2e09.jpg  That is cool! |
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Posted: 10/17/2016 10:30:17 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Couple a Mini's and a Micro in the middle http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u601/SLRrifleworks/Mobile%20Uploads/82173ACE-930D-4FB8-A7F1-D233050DDBA4_zpsyzhthkzv.jpg 
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Posted: 10/17/2016 10:32:59 PM EDT
[#50]
Since 7.62x39 isn't as dependent on velocity as .223/5.56 Wrong in so many ways. The "benchmark" for temporary cavity damage is about 2000 FPS. That's not to say that it doesn't happen at 1999, but it's an agreeable number. Below that 2000 FPS, your bullet tends to poke a hole in flesh and do little else. Now, yes, a bullet going 1900 FPS will break bones better than a bullet going 1200 FPS, all things equal, but our goal isn't to break bones. It's to fuck up cardiovascular or nervous systems. The 11.5" AR, with commonly found Fusion MSR ammo, will do this out to 200 yards. I don't even know if a micro Draco will even do it out of the muzzle. Your gun is bad and you should feel bad. |
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