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Link Posted: 1/1/2003 7:27:29 PM EDT
[#1]
Just to add more fuel to the fire, (he he he) here are some reviews of the book.

Robert Love's second volume,
History of the U.S. Navy,
1942-1991, fulfills the promise of
the first. It will now be the world
reference work for navel history. A
magnificent accomplishment.
             John Lehman
             Secretary of the Navy, 1981-1986


...a superb document. The
author has brought history alive
with the drama of exciting
events and interplay of policy and
delightful read.
             Admiral E.R. Zumwalt, Jr.
             U.S. Navy (Ret.)
             Chief of Naval Operations
             1970-74


Link Posted: 1/1/2003 7:28:11 PM EDT
[#2]
Most of the aircraft vectored onto the Liberty were originally tasked for other things. The first aircraft to strafe the ship were armed only with cannons. Later it was napalmed by aircraft returning from attacking Egyptian troops. So for the most part the attacking aircraft were just whatever the Israelis happened to have in the air.

If they had intended to sink the ship they would have flown out with iron bombs.
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 7:43:21 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
I have no input on the Liberty incident, but in response to ETH's last post, the Israeli Airforce flew P-51s, B-17s, C-46s, C-47s, Stearmans and Pipers during the early days. They flew these aircraft alongside various other planes from England, France and Italy such as Spitfires, Mosquitos, Avia S199s, Avro Ansons and Harvards (which may have also come from England or Canada).

I believe the provision of these aircraft to an emerging nation would fall under the rubric of "military assistance."
View Quote


Where the hell did you get the idea that the US government provided those aircraft to Israel?  In fact, The Israelis scoured the military surplus yards of the world, from 1947 til 1949, buying bits and pieces of demilled aircraft and govt surplus planes that were being sold off at govt sales.

Eric is absolutely right.  The US government provided exactly zero military aid to Israel until after 1967, and in fact it wasn't til after 1973 that there was any really significant aid.

Ironically, Israel's main fighter during it's War of Independance was the German ME 109, which beat the pants off of Egypt's Spitfires, and stayed in service with the Israelis til 1950 or 51.

Re the Liberty incident; I have no earthly idea about what the reality of the situation was, and I doubt that we'll ever get a definitive answer that will satisfy everyone.  I do know this tho. That ship was in a combat zone. It belonged to a nation that had no ties to Israel, other than the sentimental ties of some of the respective populations. The Israelis had been advised that all US ships were being withdrawn.  Whether the Israelis believed that the US colors were false, and the ship was actually Arab, or whether they believed that the US had lied to them, and not actually ordered the withdrawal, they did what someone in authority decided had to be done.  That there was a screw up (probably several screwups on both sides) is undeniable.  It was 35 years ago. Can we give it a rest?

Link Posted: 1/1/2003 7:54:36 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have no input on the Liberty incident, but in response to ETH's last post, the Israeli Airforce flew P-51s, B-17s, C-46s, C-47s, Stearmans and Pipers during the early days. They flew these aircraft alongside various other planes from England, France and Italy such as Spitfires, Mosquitos, Avia S199s, Avro Ansons and Harvards (which may have also come from England or Canada).

I believe the provision of these aircraft to an emerging nation would fall under the rubric of "military assistance."
View Quote


Where the hell did you get the idea that the US government provided those aircraft to Israel?  In fact, The Israelis scoured the military surplus yards of the world, from 1947 til 1949, buying bits and pieces of demilled aircraft and govt surplus planes that were being sold off at govt sales.

Eric is absolutely right.  The US government provided exactly zero military aid to Israel until after 1967, and in fact it wasn't til after 1973 that there was any really significant aid.

Ironically, Israel's main fighter during it's War of Independance was the German ME 109, which beat the pants off of Egypt's Spitfires, and stayed in service with the Israelis til 1950 or 51.

Re the Liberty incident; I have no earthly idea about what the reality of the situation was, and I doubt that we'll ever get a definitive answer that will satisfy everyone.  I do know this tho. That ship was in a combat zone. It belonged to a nation that had no ties to Israel, other than the sentimental ties of some of the respective populations. The Israelis had been advised that all US ships were being withdrawn.  Whether the Israelis believed that the US colors were false, and the ship was actually Arab, or whether they believed that the US had lied to them, and not actually ordered the withdrawal, they did what someone in authority decided had to be done.  That there was a screw up (probably several screwups on both sides) is undeniable.  It was 35 years ago. Can we give it a rest?

View Quote


Did you know that the engines in those planes were Checz. And they were no where as good as the DB's they replaced?
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 8:01:23 PM EDT
[#5]
Yup, they got the planes from the Czechs in 1948. Also the 98 Mausers that were standard issue until the FN FAL was adopted.  They also got a few scope sighted G43s from them, one of which I stood watch with in the Negev on a Nahal kibbutz from June to September, 1956---but that's a story for some other post [:D]
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 8:10:09 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Yup, they got the planes from the Czechs in 1948. Also the 98 Mausers that were standard issue until the FN FAL was adopted.  They also got a few scope sighted G43s from them, one of which I stood watch with in the Negev on a Nahal kibbutz from June to September, 1956---but that's a story for some other post [:D]
View Quote


Oh, do tell, please.[:D]
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 8:10:33 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Where the hell did you get the idea that the US government provided those aircraft to Israel?  
View Quote


Read on, McDuff. I addressed this point in later posts.
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 5:11:12 AM EDT
[#8]
Congressman Paul Findley researched this.  Here is a link to what he wrote.  You have to look kind of hard to find his report since it ain't exactly  popular with our masters.

[url]http://abbc.com/islam/english/terror/findley1.htm[/url]
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 5:42:19 AM EDT
[#9]
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