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Posted: 12/2/2013 4:34:46 AM EDT
Was watching America Unearthed last night, where they hypothesized that during the copper age, there were copper mines being mined around Lake Superior in America by the Byzantines. It seems a bit, fat fetched, but maybe not so much. Anyone else enjoy this type of thing, or have any theories of their own?
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Posted: 12/2/2013 4:37:23 AM EDT
[#1]
In b4 'it was aliens ' guy
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Posted: 12/2/2013 4:39:04 AM EDT
[#2]
Subscribed.
I'm an old earther. I think we've been around much much longer than people think. It's strange picking up flint tools on our farm and knowing another human hand made this. |
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Posted: 12/2/2013 4:39:04 AM EDT
[#3]
I doubt it. Was copper so valuable that the Byzantines could send ships across the Atlantic? Wouldn't it be cheaper to mine it in Europe? If the Byzantines crossed the Atlantic, where are their maps? At least the Turks would have had a bunch of maps when they captured Constantinople.
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Posted: 12/2/2013 4:40:27 AM EDT
[#4]
Before 1865 no one thought that Troy was a real city. Then an archeologist discovered it.
So anything is possible. |
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Posted: 12/2/2013 4:41:22 AM EDT
[#5]
one of my favorites is that Troy was in England.
not sure if I believe, but they do make an interesting case |
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Posted: 12/2/2013 4:50:25 AM EDT
[#6]
Just because it is in a history book doesn't mean it is true... not like it is on the internet. There are many theories and artifacts in the Americas that show that trans atlantic and trans pacific explores where here thousands of years ago, our ego makes us not want to believe there were advanced civilizations here
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Posted: 12/2/2013 4:50:29 AM EDT
[#7]
Would be nice to have the knowledge that was destroyed in the Library of Alexandria.
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Posted: 12/2/2013 4:51:46 AM EDT
[#8]
Actual history is interesting enough so that if you know it, you don't have to subscribe to the farfetched. (Not a shot at you OP).
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Posted: 12/2/2013 4:54:19 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Actual history is interesting enough so that if you know it, you don't have to subscribe to the farfetched. (Not a shot at you OP). Came to post something like this. Lately I've been seriously regretting not getting a degree in history. |
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Posted: 12/2/2013 5:00:29 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Would be nice to have the knowledge that was destroyed in the Library of Alexandria. or by the Vatican during the Dark Ages.... |
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Posted: 12/2/2013 5:00:43 AM EDT
[#11]
"where they hypothesized that during the copper age, there were copper
mines being mined around Lake Superior in America by the Byzantines." I know there is an ancient copper mine at Ft.Wilkins state park near Copper Harbor MI. Seen it myself, still got the shovel.  At the time I visited years ago, the hole in the ground was attributed to naive peoples and was likely only dug seasonally by them.Very harsh weather on the Keweenaw peninsula in winter would have been largely uninhabitable by the natives. That area can get as much as 10 feet or more of snow in a season and -20°F is common. |
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Posted: 12/2/2013 5:01:03 AM EDT
[#12]
There was a cover-up surrounding the Kennedy assassination, but it involved various government agencies destroying records on Lee Harvey Oswald and lapses in security because nobody wants to be the guy who gets dragged in front of Congress to explain how they let the President get killed.
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Posted: 12/2/2013 5:03:29 AM EDT
[#13]
I really really want to know if Atlantis was a real city.
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Posted: 12/2/2013 5:07:18 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"where they hypothesized that during the copper age, there were copper mines being mined around Lake Superior in America by the Byzantines." I know there is an ancient copper mine at Ft.Wilkins state park near Copper Harbor MI. Seen it myself, still got the shovel. At the time I visited years ago, the hole in the ground was attributed to naive peoples and was likely only dug seasonally by them.
Very harsh weather on the Keweenaw peninsula in winter would have been largely uninhabitable by the natives. That area can get as much as 10 feet or more of snow in a season and -20°F is common. What you did there....I see it. |
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Posted: 12/2/2013 5:08:42 AM EDT
[#15]
I've been watching as many episodes of that show as I can, and I want to believe that there are many things historically that have been wrongly assumed as correct, BUT from what I have seen in all the shows I've watched is that the guy is completely full of shit!!! Just once, I'd like someone in all these various shows to find something that is irrefutable, just once! All I've seen is weak conjecture, at best.
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Posted: 12/2/2013 5:09:56 AM EDT
[#16]
I remain fascinated at the possibility there were trade connections between Carthage and the Mayans, essentially extending the Silk road across the Atlantic - at least for a time.
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Posted: 12/2/2013 5:13:01 AM EDT
[#17]
If they were here that long ago, wouldn't they have made maps? 3000 mile trip across the ocean isn't as easy as just pointing your boat in the right direction and simply casting off.
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Posted: 12/2/2013 5:15:07 AM EDT
[#18]
i have read a lot of that stuff. some of it is pure nuttery, some of it is certainly feasible.
i do believe there is a LARGE part of human history that has been lost and that findings that don't jive with common theory are often completely ignored, dismissed or buried. i really don't think we have the full picture of humanity and likely never will. |
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Posted: 12/2/2013 5:16:51 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If they were here that long ago, wouldn't they have made maps? 3000 mile trip across the ocean isn't as easy as just pointing your boat in the right direction and simply casting off. who is to say they didn't? saltwater and organic things don't mix well. would we expect to find 6000 year old rope? possible, sure but not likely. |
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Posted: 12/2/2013 5:19:10 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: i do believe there is a LARGE part of human history that has been lost and that findings that don't jive with common theory are often completely ignored, dismissed or buried. i really don't think we have the full picture of humanity and likely never will. Like the burning of the Library of Alexandria? |
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Posted: 12/2/2013 5:19:40 AM EDT
[#21]
i cant say i particularly believe one theory over another, but i will say that we often dont want to believe in ancient advanced civilizations because (a) we want to believe we are the only ones and (b) we don't want to face the facts that advanced civilizations often lead to their demise.
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Posted: 12/2/2013 5:21:45 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If they were here that long ago, wouldn't they have made maps? 3000 mile trip across the ocean isn't as easy as just pointing your boat in the right direction and simply casting off. Carthage represented the only link to civilizations south... and it was absolutely destroyed. Pretty much all we know about it comes from Roman accounts. Then there's this: http://www.archivesofculturalexchanges.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=14 |
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Posted: 12/2/2013 5:22:16 AM EDT
[#23]
As one poster about stated, Troy was a myth until it was found by Heinrich Schliemann. I would imagine that there might be some truth to the legend of Atlantis that is more than the play on morality people attribute to Plato
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I really really want to know if Atlantis was a real city. |
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Posted: 12/2/2013 5:23:12 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: i cant say i particularly believe one theory over another, but i will say that we often dont want to believe in ancient advanced civilizations because (a) we want to believe we are the only ones and (b) we don't want to face the facts that advanced civilizations often lead to their demise. If that were true, how come we're not digging up 8,000 year old plastic or carbon fiber?  |
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Posted: 12/2/2013 5:23:35 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Was watching America Unearthed last night, where they hypothesized that during the copper age, there were copper mines being mined around Lake Superior in America by the Byzantines. It seems a bit, fat fetched, but maybe not so much. Anyone else enjoy this type of thing, or have any theories of their own? http://goo.gl/H9XbG Saw that show. They say there are hundreds of old mining pits in the area and that it was / possibly still has some of the richest copper deposits in the world. Interesting stuff ... natives certainly didn't mine it since they never advanced beyond stone age technology. |
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Posted: 12/2/2013 5:24:47 AM EDT
[#26]
Last year read a book called 1491. The author theorized that Native American societies were much more advanced than presumed. For example forestry, they would do planned fires to clean out the underbrush and make it better for game management.
I don't go along with all of his theories but some of them make a lot of sense, especially that the population used to be higher than suspected. |
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Posted: 12/2/2013 5:24:49 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Would be nice to have the knowledge that was destroyed in the Library of Alexandria. ... thanks to the muslims ... |
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Posted: 12/2/2013 5:25:28 AM EDT
[#28]
That's one hell of a long way to go for some copper that could have probably been sourced in Europe.
So, if it is true, then my respect for the Byzantines went down, not up. |
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Posted: 12/2/2013 5:25:52 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Was watching America Unearthed last night, where they hypothesized that during the copper age, there were copper mines being mined around Lake Superior in America by the Byzantines. It seems a bit, fat fetched, but maybe not so much. Anyone else enjoy this type of thing, or have any theories of their own? http://goo.gl/H9XbG WTF is the "copper age" and when was it? ETA nevermind. Copper Age = Bronze Age. FYI the "Byzantines" didn't exist then in the historical context of their name. Try again. |
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Posted: 12/2/2013 5:26:28 AM EDT
[#30]
I heard aliens sank the Titanic.
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Posted: 12/2/2013 5:26:36 AM EDT
[#31]
Here is a really bizarre collection of alternative history:  |
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Posted: 12/2/2013 5:27:25 AM EDT
[#32]
I think a lot of archeologists loose sight that artifacts and materials can move locations and continents without human intervention.
Case in point, the Tsunami that hit Japan has scattered debris all over the West Coast, and even into south America. Who is to say that ships, boats, and debris from storms, or just trash drifting, didnt cross both the Atlantic and Pacific (and other large bodies of water) on their own over the eons. Unless there is firm proof of settlement, foundations to buildings, etc, its hard to say that a boat didn't just drift ashore from a far-away land and native populations didnt scavange. This is what I think happened with the researchers who have found Chinese artifacts in Chile, for example. |
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Posted: 12/2/2013 5:27:35 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
...Interesting stuff ... natives certainly didn't mine it since they never advanced beyond stone age technology. Can you elaborate on that? Is this an assertion they would not be able to mine that site, or that they would have no inclination to mine that site? |
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Posted: 12/2/2013 5:27:36 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's one hell of a long way to go for some copper that could have probably been sourced in Europe. So, if it is true, then my respect for the Byzantines went down, not up. LOL |
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Posted: 12/2/2013 5:27:42 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Would be nice to have the knowledge that was destroyed in the Library of Alexandria. Yup. |
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Posted: 12/2/2013 5:29:44 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Subscribed. I'm an old earther. I think we've been around much much longer than people think. It's strange picking up flint tools on our farm and knowing another human hand made this. Look at how far we went in just 100 years. I know we have probably been around for a long time, but the idea of civilization only being 5,000 years old is very feasible to me. |
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Posted: 12/2/2013 5:30:58 AM EDT
[#37]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_mining_in_Michigan#Native_American_mining
Native Americans were the first to mine and work the copper of Lake Superior and the Keweenaw Peninsula of northern Michigan between 5000 BCE and 1200 BCE. The natives used this copper to produce tools. Archaeological expeditions in the Keweenaw Peninsula and Isle Royale revealed the existence of copper producing pits and hammering stones which were used to work the copper. Fringe writers have suggested that as much as 1.5 billion pounds of copper was extracted during this period, but archaeologists consider such high figures as "ill-constructed estimates" and that the actual figure is unknown. So the Native American's never mined for Copper you guys say, uh? |
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Posted: 12/2/2013 5:31:10 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can you elaborate on that? Is this an assertion they would not be able to mine that site, or that they would have no inclination to mine that site? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
...Interesting stuff ... natives certainly didn't mine it since they never advanced beyond stone age technology. Can you elaborate on that? Is this an assertion they would not be able to mine that site, or that they would have no inclination to mine that site? How do you derive "would not be able" or "would have no inclination" from "didn't"? Your questions are germane. |
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Posted: 12/2/2013 5:31:32 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I really really want to know if Atlantis was a real city. Was likely based on the Minoan civilization and possible destruction by volcano (from memory krakatoa, I think). |
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Posted: 12/2/2013 5:32:26 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If that were true, how come we're not digging up 8,000 year old plastic or carbon fiber?
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
i cant say i particularly believe one theory over another, but i will say that we often dont want to believe in ancient advanced civilizations because (a) we want to believe we are the only ones and (b) we don't want to face the facts that advanced civilizations often lead to their demise. If that were true, how come we're not digging up 8,000 year old plastic or carbon fiber?
Even more importantly, the natural resources that we have on the Earth are all undisturbed, except for the last 20K years or so. If any "advanced" civilization existed on a scale similar to ours, even millions of years ago, they would have likley mined and moved metals, drained oil, etc. Those resources all all still there, ancient, and there is no evidence of manufactured goods that pre-date modern humans, bar Axe heads in Africa from primitive species. |
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Posted: 12/2/2013 5:33:44 AM EDT
[#41]
Or Santorini and Thera...........the biggest problem with it is the description of Atlantis being "beyond the pillars of Heracles", which puts it out in the Atlantic Ocean somewhere. Someone posted an article here about it possibly being off the coast of Spain or somewhere near there. If it's found, Spain will claim it
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Was likely based on the Minoan civilization and possible destruction by volcano (from memory krakatoa, I think). Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I really really want to know if Atlantis was a real city. Was likely based on the Minoan civilization and possible destruction by volcano (from memory krakatoa, I think). |
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Posted: 12/2/2013 5:33:46 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Last year read a book called 1491. The author theorized that Native American societies were much more advanced than presumed. For example forestry, they would do planned fires to clean out the underbrush and make it better for game management. I don't go along with all of his theories but some of them make a lot of sense, especially that the population used to be higher than suspected. When the europeans landed, they made records of how there were already fields and wide open spaces in the new world, ready for planting. It didn't dawn on them that you have to deforest an area to get that. |
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Posted: 12/2/2013 5:34:48 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Carthage represented the only link to civilizations south... and it was absolutely destroyed. Pretty much all we know about it comes from Roman accounts. Then there's this: http://www.archivesofculturalexchanges.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=14 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If they were here that long ago, wouldn't they have made maps? 3000 mile trip across the ocean isn't as easy as just pointing your boat in the right direction and simply casting off. Carthage represented the only link to civilizations south... and it was absolutely destroyed. Pretty much all we know about it comes from Roman accounts. Then there's this: http://www.archivesofculturalexchanges.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=14 "Carthago delenda est." -Cato the elder |
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Posted: 12/2/2013 5:35:24 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Or Santorini and Thera...........the biggest problem with it is the description of Atlantis being "beyond the pillars of Heracles", which puts it out in the Atlantic Ocean somewhere Quote HistoryQuoted: Or Santorini and Thera...........the biggest problem with it is the description of Atlantis being "beyond the pillars of Heracles", which puts it out in the Atlantic Ocean somewhere Quoted: Quoted: I really really want to know if Atlantis was a real city. Was likely based on the Minoan civilization and possible destruction by volcano (from memory krakatoa, I think). That would be true, because I believe the Pillars of Heracles was supposed to represent as a gate between the known world from the undiscovered world. |
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Posted: 12/2/2013 5:35:37 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's one hell of a long way to go for some copper that could have probably been sourced in Europe. So, if it is true, then my respect for the Byzantines went down, not up. |
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Posted: 12/2/2013 5:36:20 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here is a really bizarre collection of alternative history: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/11/Peopleshistoryzinn.jpg/200px-Peopleshistoryzinn.jpg Yeah, follow that up by reading some Studs Terkel for full effect comrade. |
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Posted: 12/2/2013 5:39:00 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"Carthago delenda est." -Cato the elder Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If they were here that long ago, wouldn't they have made maps? 3000 mile trip across the ocean isn't as easy as just pointing your boat in the right direction and simply casting off. Carthage represented the only link to civilizations south... and it was absolutely destroyed. Pretty much all we know about it comes from Roman accounts. Then there's this: http://www.archivesofculturalexchanges.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=14 "Carthago delenda est." -Cato the elder Rarely has a military force received such clear, unambiguous orders. Alas, any maps, documents, etc. they had, went with them. We know their civilization was linked to India, it likely had trade relationships with sub-Saharan Africa as well. |
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Posted: 12/2/2013 5:39:26 AM EDT
[#48]
Correct. Here is the article about the possible location of Atlantis:
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/42072469/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/lost-city-atlantis-believed-found-spain/ Quote HistoryQuoted:
That would be true, because I believe the Pillars of Heracles was supposed to represent as a gate between the known world from the undiscovered world. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Or Santorini and Thera...........the biggest problem with it is the description of Atlantis being "beyond the pillars of Heracles", which puts it out in the Atlantic Ocean somewhere Quoted:
Quoted:
I really really want to know if Atlantis was a real city. Was likely based on the Minoan civilization and possible destruction by volcano (from memory krakatoa, I think). That would be true, because I believe the Pillars of Heracles was supposed to represent as a gate between the known world from the undiscovered world. |
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Posted: 12/2/2013 5:40:25 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Or Santorini and Thera...........the biggest problem with it is the description of Atlantis being "beyond the pillars of Heracles", which puts it out in the Atlantic Ocean somewhere. Someone posted an article here about it possibly being off the coast of Spain or somewhere near there. If it's found, Spain will claim it Quote HistoryQuoted:
Or Santorini and Thera...........the biggest problem with it is the description of Atlantis being "beyond the pillars of Heracles", which puts it out in the Atlantic Ocean somewhere. Someone posted an article here about it possibly being off the coast of Spain or somewhere near there. If it's found, Spain will claim it Quoted:
Quoted:
I really really want to know if Atlantis was a real city. Was likely based on the Minoan civilization and possible destruction by volcano (from memory krakatoa, I think). Likely whisper down the lane effect of a history than began as oral and was later reduced to writing. There was a period of several hundred years, I think, between Minoans and the Golden Age in Greece. |
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Posted: 12/2/2013 5:40:48 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_mining_in_Michigan#Native_American_mining So the Native American's never mined for Copper you guys say, uh?
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_mining_in_Michigan#Native_American_mining Native Americans were the first to mine and work the copper of Lake Superior and the Keweenaw Peninsula of northern Michigan between 5000 BCE and 1200 BCE. The natives used this copper to produce tools. Archaeological expeditions in the Keweenaw Peninsula and Isle Royale revealed the existence of copper producing pits and hammering stones which were used to work the copper. Fringe writers have suggested that as much as 1.5 billion pounds of copper was extracted during this period, but archaeologists consider such high figures as "ill-constructed estimates" and that the actual figure is unknown.
So the Native American's never mined for Copper you guys say, uh?
Wikipedia is hardly an authoritative source 
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