Again, you are wrong.  The courts told you that you are wrong.


Even further than the courts, you are wrong on a moral level.  You've given every detail of this situation so if the grandparents were bad people you would have mentioned that.  So you are trying to keep someone else's child from loving people who just want to know their grandchild.  Disgusting.

knock off the personal attacks
 

Oh turkey, I hoped you would return.  If I put a ring on it, If I adopted her, If I did everything you seem to think I'm not would your opinion change.  Doubtful.  I opened my doors and accepted her as my own.  Marriage won't change that, adoption currently wont help.  

These are all things we want to do in the coming years, but right now they change nothing.  Other than as you I believe so whole heartedly want to prove I could then be held for child support.  Yep. I could and I would pay it if I got to spend time with her.  



We together will pull in over $125k this year.  That money isn't a drop in the bucket and legally she was entitled to it even if I adopted her.  Better yet she will have college, down payement for house, etc... taken care of.  I got out of the last thread because they wanted to say we were FSA, guess what I pay more in taxes each year than most of those fucks take from us.  



Morals... Maybe he should do the morally right thing and respect the mothers decision.  Morally he should not try to make this child live for what her paternaly father wasn't.  As for the information I have given, it's the internet I don't have time to give you the transcript of the court.  

Nice thing about this... responding to all this and now my work day is over.  Time to go home to my child :)

Hey, half of ARFCOM tells me that all illegal immigrants should be forcefully deported, so that picture should make them happy.

We knew all along it was likely, but could not honestly fathom the courts could or would force us to give our child to a stranger (to appease some a stranger by time, not blood).  Our attorneys could not find a case where a child was born after a death and the grand parents then sued.  The law was set to foster relationships that already existed, not to force new ones.  It seems very clear by reading the law that is how it was setup, but as always it was left open for interpretation to some guy who only has to make the easiest decision for what he sees for both sides and step away from the case.  

I think he overstepped his rights when he ordered the mother will have to come to an angreement with grandfather as to when to tell child about biological father.  There were two other points where he forced things that do not fall under the law and this is where we think an appeal could be successful.

Im backing out. You incited my first moderation. Good luck to your family.

Sorry but I don't think parents of a dead parent supersede the rights of living parent to have full custody of the child. Sucks for grandparents that want to be a positive influence in the life of their grandchild, but the fact of the matter is they have no such rights when their child is living and the only way they should have any rights is if both of the parents of the child are dead or have signed away their legal guardianship.

You should have adopted her as soon as she was born, that might have killed their rights



Appeal it and if you can maybe you can out last him $$ wise



 

 

Why?  Why is moving the best bet?

He didn't say a single thing about the grandparents not being fit, this entire thing is about his selfishness.  

Why would he move?  Just to make a point?  To take a stand?

Why not stay where they are, stop wasting money, and let the grandparents see the kid every month or so?  Help buy some school cloths, take her out for ice cream, etc?  Show her love, the things grandparents do.

Still haven't gotten an answer on whether the grandparent know of the child before the paternity test to get the dad's social security.

 

 

Not exactly true, there are a lot of states where grandparents can sue for visitation while their child is alive or dead



Here in Pa grandparents can sue if they are refused visitation by their son or daughter.



 

Stop being reasonable.

I'm in this camp.
You aren't the parent.

 

As I stated earlier, I was adopted as a baby, my parents are my parents, the mother who gave birth to me is nothing.

Birthing a child does not make a mother.

I am not speaking from emotion either, it took many years to find the real truth of my conception and birth, I found all my natural brothers and sisters, formed relationships with some.





 

Not reading all the other posts because I am at work but you if you plan on hanging around long term. Adopt the child. It will be easier on everyone.

I'm happy for you.
He has not adopted the child or married the mother.
He is a boyfriend.

I didn't know they were not married, he has no rights IMHO then



The terms he used lead me to believe they were married.

He might have the emotional attachment to the child and the child to him but not in a court of law.





 

Not married kid not adopted by you.

There's a flip side to this issue, and I lived it in my family.

My grandfather died shortly after my father was born, back in the 1940s. My grandmother was not in a good mental place when they'd hooked up, and she became pregnant with him. After my grandfather was dead, there was a break between grandmother and his family, and she cut all connections with them. My father lived a childhood from hell, going to 12 different schools over his childhood, basically being homeless with grandma and her other kids for significant amounts of time, living with her while she was shacked up with various other men, and a whole host of other things that wound up contributing to making him the person he is today.

He'd have been a lot better off, and might have been a better father and husband than he was, had my great-grandparents been successful in having him taken away. His life sure as hell would have been a lot more stable, and the small inheritance he had from the settlement for my grandfather's death wouldn't have been squandered, and might have actually been there for him when he turned 21, the way he was told all his life.

My grandmother eventually got herself straightened out, but it was a long time after she'd screwed up my dad and his brothers.

Blood is blood. I wouldn't want children of mine out there floating without knowing they were cared for and loved, and I don't think I'd feel any different about their kids. These "grandparent's rights" laws are not entirely a bad thing, but I do think they need to be administered better than they are. There are times and cases where the situation would be better for the kids to have the grandparents involved in their lives, and then there are occasions where the grandparents ought to be banned entirely from even contacting them. The courts should administer and supervise these situations, carefully, with the weight of the decision going to the best interest of the kids.

I sure as hell wish my dad hadn't had the childhood he did. He might still have been an utter shitbag, but at least then, I'd know it was him and not feel somewhat guilty for cutting him out of my life for the last 20 years. As it is, I get twinges of guilt over that, but past a certain point, you're responsible for your actions, not the situation you were raised in. It's painful, having to cut someone so close out of your life, but you have to do it when their behavior reaches a certain point of no return, as his did. I'm still unable to hold him entirely responsible for what he's done, over the years, but that's not quite enough to remove the guilt. It'd be nice to know whether it was him, or his upbringing, though... My grandfather and great-grandparents were reputed to be stand-up folks, but I don't know anything about them past that, and the fact that they tried to get custody of my father when he was living with grandmother on the streets of Denver, back in the 1940s.

Under the law - you are not a parent.

Under the law, you are just Momma's shack job ....

Wrong.  Without a written, legal, binding commitment to the mother and/or the child, you have no interest that the court may consider.  Further, so long as you *AREN'T* married, the mother remains a single divorcee who's shacking up.  Gee - do you think that has any baearing on how the court is ruling?





Even in court, there are limitations on what you can get across.  As you've seen.  However, there is a world of difference in court between "mother's husband" and "mother's paramour".

Yes, boys and girls, it's another reason why marriage is more than a piece of paper.  Our OP has lots of time and energy wrapped up in a child that is not his in any way.  Whether the grandparents are shit birds or not is irrelevant.  It's between the mother and the grandparents.  



@Aimless.  Would he be considered the father if he and his GF had been married at the time of birth?  Of course that opens up a whole new can o' worms.



 

It's a pretty mean move to cut the grandparents out.  While I feel the parents should have the right to dictate who their children see (or don't see), its not polite to cut a grand parent out.



Frankly you should have been nice to the grand parents and allowed regular visits of your own accord without having to have the courts involved.  My opinion would obviously change if the grandparents were a bad influence or a danger to the child, but that should be easy to articulate.

       
 

He has no say in the matter.
He is not the parent.

Having once watched his situation unfold, your post is 100% correct.

OP how old is the child?

How long has this been going on?

Year and a half.




Civil case, so unless it makes it state supreme court it is sealed.  So only way to get info is to find lawyers who have dealt with it before.

I'll answer to you although most will skip right past past it.  We fully intend to tell her the truth when WE see fit.  Be it today, tomorrow, or ten years down the road, but that is our choice and should not be determined by a court.  He is allowed to say he is grandpa and nothing else.  Sure that'll work

I did not adopt sign birth certificate because we were still working through our differences and in the event it didn't work out it was going to be easier on her and I to not have the connection at that point.  The day she was born she also let that family stop by and made it clear that would be the last time until or if she was ready for more.  She wanted to give them a chance to see her while understanding they were suffering from the loss of their child.  There was hope it would give them closure.  At around 6 months the social security office said that even if I adopted her she would still get the benefit of his SS and we also were served noticed that we were being sued for visitation rights.  We were not ready to marry and in Indiana adoption does not stop or dissolve the order given on visitation.  So at this point it still did/does not change anything to adopt her, other than child support.  Even if we fell apart I would happily support her, if I was given time with her.  Not that many seem capable of understanding that some people simply can be the better man and do something without a court order.  If she needed support, I'd be there.  End of story, quit trying to make it something its not.

Say what you will, but if you could guarantee your child free money from the government, you would take it.  Especially if you are paying in a large amount  yourself.  

As for marriage... WHY?  We were married for over two years and spent a couple hundred dollars to dissolve it, she was actually pregnant as divorce was finalized.  We had stayed in contact all but the three months where she fell into a deep depression after her grandparents untimely death and ended up getting pregnant.  We had a begun to talk some before she found out she was pregnant.  She was 4 months pregnant when he died and I was I was still there as a friend who had once shared great love for her.  I had promised my life to her the day I married her and despite the divorce it did still mean something to me.  She lived with parents up until 7 months and moved into my house on a somewhat temporary idea in hopes of getting her out of her fathers stressful attitude and giving her a place to simply be more comfortable.  Even up to point of birth we were still not 100% together, there was lots of counseling to still complete and we put in a few $k of that as well.  Marriage could have had an impact, but lawyer felt it might look to much like we were pretending to be a married couple to help sway things in our favor.  He felt it was better to show we had been in a stable relationship for over a year, I provided a home, funding, care, etc...  I am a parent (wait legally I'm a fool being taken according to some) who loves this child as his own.  I call myself Dad, but if or when people ask we tell them the truth.  Nothing to hide.  

Now having nothing to hide does not mean we are not comfortable with giving her to this man and we should not have to worry about it, but somehow we do.  I understand all of the people who thing we are bad, but you do not get to live our lives, so you should not make our decisions.  We have provided a more than stable home for this child despite the terrible shit that happened before she was born.  



If we both did not have out entire families within 15 minutes of us, sure we might pack up and leave.  Why should we have to change our lives anymore than we already have.  In a time where paternal parents are running from their kids in record numbers, why are we punishing those who take a stand a do what best for the child?  Oh they aren't married, marriage doesen't mean jack anymore.  Our courts have proved that.  Adoption.  They made it clear it does pretty much nothing in the law.  So what do we do?  We fight for what we think is best for our child because that is our right.  Oh her right, I'm just the guy who's house she lives in and not a parent.  Fuck that.  I understand legally I'm have no rights to this child, but mom does, and if she were typing this she would be saying the exact same thing.  He creeps her out, and she should not have to hand her over to him.

Money... Every two years he has the "right" to ask for more time.  Currently he gets her for two hours twice a month, but judge said in two years we will re-asses.  Which, you guessed it, costs more money!  Every two years he can make us poney up more lawyer time in attempt to get more time for himself.  Show her love?  She as 6 grandparents that do that.  The 7th told us he wants to run around with her like he never got to do with his son.  Teach her the things he never got to teach his son.  Do things that we as parents don't want her to do.  He flat said it in counseling!  He wants to be an opposition to the mother.  He wants to be a stake in their relationship, but because he's not a a crack addict, its ok.  It was his burden of proof to show why he deserved time, he honestly didn't do jack shit.  He had to be silenced by his lawyer multiple times for making it clear it was about his needs.  His oldest son hated him until his brother died.  He called his daughter a lying bitch.  Friends of ours state he is basically a functioning alcoholic that has almost no life to him.  His current marriage is in shambles with his wife spending weeks in an institution for stress.  But we are the bad people.  We didn't want to tear him down and point out all the flaws in his life because he has been through enough and we just wanted him to move on. WITHOUT US.  She is not the fix.  She is the innocent child and her mother is the one who should get to decide what creeps she lets in her life.  He had his chance and he fucked it up.

Would you all like me to go on about why I think he's a bad person?  We didn't sling mud in court or ever because it's a terrible thing to bring up a persons skeletons and his problems are not ours to judge.  But when you threaten to take our child, you bet that have become our problem.  Sadly we let that slip away in court because we thought it would be better to simply say how well we have provided for her and to keep the dirt slinging at a minimum.  We fucked up, but we aren't giving up.

I know this is GD, but I always seem to forget how quickly people attack things that do not matter.  All that should matter is that a grandparent should not have the right to sue for visitation unless they were an intricate part of the childs life previously.  Instead our courts have slapped standard orders on these cases that have severely limited the rights of mothers and fathers.  Lastly I did not make her, I am not her paternal father, I am not her blood, but I am her dad, I am her father, I am the man who opened his arms when another tied a knot around his neck.  Shame on those of you who judge me, hell I'm not even religious and I know better than to pass judgement onto others.  



Adoption is something we want to do, but at this point we did not feel it made a difference.  Legally it does nothing per the law we are fighting and emotionally I don't need the court to tell me I'm her father.  I'' do that on my own terms like I already do.

Like was stated above by previous poster, one of the main reasons we allowed no visitation was because with custody once you give an inch, they take a mile.  I was raised in a spilt family.  I know how it works.  I was sent to a counselor plenty of times to see if one side deserved more time or not.  First its a few hours here or there.  Then its weekends, then its a weeknight.  Next thing you know they are granted a few weeks during the summer or are given holidays.  It's s slippery slope, that you should always try to avoid, when it's clear that both sides have zero interest in being amicable towards eachother.  


Now I'm going to finish my taco bell and go pick up my daughter from day care.

As an adopted child who's biological sperm donor and family did everything to block my fathers adoption of me until the state mandated time restraints were over, I have to say you are screwed until you marry the woman and adopt the child.  Until this happens you are not a parent in the courts eyes.  Good luck.  You are going to need it.

I think OP has posted this before...read the first bit and it sounded exactly like a thread from a couple months ago.

First post paragraph one.  ;-)  I had tried it once before but the responses got completely out of control about a Assumptions about my wealth, child support, FSA, etc.

I really just wanted to see what people's feelings are about grandparents visitation in to see if people really believe that a grandparent should be able to take time from competent parent against their will all emotions aside. Some information has been helpful, orhers not so much. this is impossible to type from my phone

Hey, let us know if you get fired.... for some strange reason you can't understand.

 

Me - "Hey dad I know I run and operate the most profitable part of our business, some guy on the internet wants you to fire me because I left from work the same time I do everyday."  

Dad - "Well fuck you both, I'm at home because I took a chainsaw to my ankle.  Is any of your work behind?"

Me - "Nope.  We'll put another 20 roofs on this week and you won't have to worry about a thing."

Dad - "then leave me the fuck alone"

Yeah I think I'll be just fine, but thanks for the concern. Pay check will be in on friday.



It's the morality nazi!  Woogie boogie!