Japan as as Model?

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Posted: 3/13/2011 12:39:03 PM EDT

Thinking about the disaster (TEOTWAWKI) in Japan and their response. How would something similar work out in the US?
Other than the deaths from the event(s), there does not appear to be killing, looting or mayhem (yet at least). Maybe a different type of society?

Posted: 3/13/2011 7:27:03 AM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
Thinking about the disaster (TEOTWAWKI) in Japan and their response. How would something similar work out in the US?
Other than the deaths from the event(s), there does not appear to be killing, looting or mayhem (yet at least). Maybe a different type of society?

Would not work here, we are not homogeneous, we are not an orderly society, too many here willing to take advantage of a crisis for their own purposes, and too many here would wait for the government to come bail them out.

Posted: 3/13/2011 7:29:30 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
Thinking about the disaster (TEOTWAWKI) in Japan and their response. How would something similar work out in the US?
Other than the deaths from the event(s), there does not appear to be killing, looting or mayhem (yet at least). Maybe a different type of society?

I was thinking the same thing, no white trash or African American types.

Posted: 3/13/2011 7:32:40 AM EDT

[#3]

Not a multicultural society.

Plus a land of robots that think the same. Look at WW2 for proof.

Posted: 3/13/2011 8:19:47 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Thinking about the disaster (TEOTWAWKI) in Japan and their response. How would something similar work out in the US?
Other than the deaths from the event(s), there does not appear to be killing, looting or mayhem (yet at least). Maybe a different type of society?

I was thinking the same thing, no white trash or African American types.

I'd differentiate between black folks and black trash. the hard working black folks I grew up with were some of the kindest and most helpful folks I've had the privelage of knowing. Trash is trash, regardless of skin color.

As far as it goes, the best model we have is Katrina. No more need be said.

Ops

Posted: 3/13/2011 8:58:53 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Thinking about the disaster (TEOTWAWKI) in Japan and their response. How would something similar work out in the US?
Other than the deaths from the event(s), there does not appear to be killing, looting or mayhem (yet at least). Maybe a different type of society?

I was thinking the same thing, no white trash or African American types.

I'd differentiate between black folks and black trash. the hard working black folks I grew up with were some of the kindest and most helpful folks I've had the privelage of knowing. Trash is trash, regardless of skin color.

As far as it goes, the best model we have is Katrina. No more need be said.

Ops

Thank you

Posted: 3/13/2011 9:12:33 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Thinking about the disaster (TEOTWAWKI) in Japan and their response. How would something similar work out in the US?
Other than the deaths from the event(s), there does not appear to be killing, looting or mayhem (yet at least). Maybe a different type of society?

I was thinking the same thing, no white trash or African American types.

I'd differentiate between black folks and black trash. the hard working black folks I grew up with were some of the kindest and most helpful folks I've had the privelage of knowing. Trash is trash, regardless of skin color.

As far as it goes, the best model we have is Katrina. No more need be said.

Ops

I agree, there are a lot of good hard working black folks with the right morals.

My wording is not the greatest at times.

Posted: 3/13/2011 9:49:15 AM EDT

[#7]

houston wasn't bad when ike knocked out power for over a week in a bunch of areas. of course we didn't have earth quakes and tsunami destroying our roads (and i can only imagine what kind of underground damage was done japan's water, sewage, telecommunications and other infrastructure) and power generating stations.

Posted: 3/13/2011 10:01:08 AM EDT

[#8]

I think that there is a lot to learn from this earthquake and nuclear accident.

First many people have only what was with them. Trunk bags, backpacks and go bags are the order of the day. The classic 3 day minimum of food and water has been expended by now.

Second evacuation is made extremely difficult by the conditions of the roadway and transit systems. Unlike traditional weather disasters, there was no warning allowing for a pre-evac. Many people will evac on their feet.

Nuclear meltdown may or may not effect you depending on location. But if it does effect you, be prepared have evacuation drills, map out multiple routes to leave the zone, double the suggested safe zone, carry your own iodine.

Information: The people that know stuff are to busy fixing the problem to talk. As a result, there is a lot of noise. Don't spend time sifting through it, just move out of the area.

Posted: 3/13/2011 10:21:39 AM EDT

[#9]

My Pastor, who is half Japanese told me a story of a man who forgot his briefcase in the Subway Terminal in Tokyo. He came back that afernoon and it was sitting there undisturbed. That is telling for a society. Not perfect by far but very respectful of others. Here? well we know what would happen here.

Posted: 3/13/2011 10:33:15 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
My Pastor, who is half Japanese told me a story of a man who forgot his briefcase in the Subway Terminal in Tokyo. He came back that afernoon and it was sitting there undisturbed. That is telling for a society. Not perfect by far but very respectful of others. Here? well we know what would happen here.

Subway station would have been evacuated, bag blown up by the bomb squad, and he'd have a bill for the cost of our "first responders" to roll out.

Posted: 3/13/2011 10:59:12 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:
My Pastor, who is half Japanese told me a story of a man who forgot his briefcase in the Subway Terminal in Tokyo. He came back that afernoon and it was sitting there undisturbed. That is telling for a society. Not perfect by far but very respectful of others. Here? well we know what would happen here.

Subway station would have been evacuated, bag blown up by the bomb squad, and he'd have a bill for the cost of our "first responders" to roll out.

if it wasn't stolen first of course.

Posted: 3/13/2011 11:24:29 AM EDT

[#12]

Japan does not have a Welfare state.

It cannot be a model for America.

I'm sorry, I saw it when Houston flooded and people were expecting someone to come save them instead of walking to the store (Just to poke fun because you fucking deserve it, the stores were packed with African American types at work after the flood!

).

In Katrina when welfare scumbags died on I-10 because they refused to waddle to an aid station... I know it's hard. I've been fit and I've been fat and lazy and every size in between. I would NEVER have died of dehydration on the side of the highway waiting for someone to come save me. But, we all watched the elderly black couple do just that on FOX.

When countries without a Welfare State have a major disaster it's a tragedy, when it happens in American it can almost always be traced back to man made complications and lowest "income" people dropping like flies.

Posted: 3/13/2011 11:25:35 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:
My Pastor, who is half Japanese told me a story of a man who forgot his briefcase in the Subway Terminal in Tokyo. He came back that afernoon and it was sitting there undisturbed. That is telling for a society. Not perfect by far but very respectful of others. Here? well we know what would happen here.

Subway station would have been evacuated, bag blown up by the bomb squad, and he'd have a bill for the cost of our "first responders" to roll out.

if it wasn't stolen first of course.

It would have been stolen. On the way to the subway from the man by two thugs.

I think it has alot to do with where in the country a disaster hit. Katrina taught us a little. If a disaster hit in San Fran, alot of the same thing would happen. If something hit farther north here in CA, it would be much different. Like already said, the Japanese people and most Americans are very different. If a disaster hit in San Diego vs Nashville, the people would respond very differently, changing the look of the disaster.

Posted: 3/13/2011 12:43:35 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:

My Pastor, who is half Japanese told me a story of a man who forgot his briefcase in the Subway Terminal in Tokyo. He came back that afernoon and it was sitting there undisturbed. That is telling for a society. Not perfect by far but very respectful of others. Here? well we know what would happen here.

Subway station would have been evacuated, bag blown up by the bomb squad, and he'd have a bill for the cost of our "first responders" to roll out.

if it wasn't stolen first of course.

It would have been stolen. On the way to the subway from the man by two thugs.

I think it has alot to do with where in the country a disaster hit. Katrina taught us a little. If a disaster hit in San Fran, alot of the same thing would happen. If something hit farther north here in CA, it would be much different. Like already said, the Japanese people and most Americans are very different. If a disaster hit in San Diego vs Nashville, the people would respond very differently, changing the look of the disaster.

After the flood hit last May, areas in North Nashville looked like a war went through there. It still looks almost EXACTLY the same, almost a year later.

It's an area with a lot of "color".

Posted: 3/13/2011 12:46:44 PM EDT

[#15]

This is the thread where we can raff at Rootie

Posted: 3/13/2011 12:47:52 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:
My Pastor, who is half Japanese told me a story of a man who forgot his briefcase in the Subway Terminal in Tokyo. He came back that afernoon and it was sitting there undisturbed. That is telling for a society. Not perfect by far but very respectful of others. Here? well we know what would happen here.

Subway station would have been evacuated, bag blown up by the bomb squad, and he'd have a bill for the cost of our "first responders" to roll out.

if it wasn't stolen first of course.

It would have been stolen. On the way to the subway from the man by two thugs.

I think it has alot to do with where in the country a disaster hit. Katrina taught us a little. If a disaster hit in San Fran, alot of the same thing would happen. If something hit farther north here in CA, it would be much different. Like already said, the Japanese people and most Americans are very different. If a disaster hit in San Diego vs Nashville, the people would respond very differently, changing the look of the disaster.

After the flood hit last May, areas in North Nashville looked like a war went through there. It still looks almost EXACTLY the same, almost a year later.

It's an area with a lot of "color".

I don't know if that's a fair criticism. Lots of people didn't have flood insurance because the area never flooded. If my house had been hit, I doubt I could have rebuilt out of pocket either without some help. I know for a fact several people lost everything and had no recourse and were basically stuck.

Posted: 3/13/2011 12:50:54 PM EDT

[#17]

Um we have natural disaster at least a couple times a year, not as bad. But for some of the locals its bad, and people pull together.

Nashville Flooding,
Hurricanes tornadoes

The craziness was Katrina and that pretty much standar OP for new orleans, LA

Unless it happens in Detroit, Philly, or Southside Chicago, Americans get up and get to work

Don't be so down on your fellow citizens.

Plus don't be lulled, there are bad people everywhere, you think the Yakuza is running a red cross, those fuckers I guarantee are making big moves right now.

Posted: 3/13/2011 12:53:46 PM EDT

[#18]

They are a differant kind of society.

You can leave a purse full of money in Japan and come back two days later and still find it sitting there.

Right now, they are probably all so shocked, and looking to help each other, more than profit off each other's misfortune.

Posted: 3/13/2011 12:59:09 PM EDT

[#19]

I think there is one important comparison to make, we have Japan who has the most restricitive building codes in the world (i.e. BIG GOVERNMENT) and in one of the worst earthquakes recorded they loose what a couple thousand. Looking at Haiti where they "kept the government off people's backs" and buildings collapsed all over the country and killed how many??. The ONLY reason more people did not die in the initial quake is the extremely restrictive building codes.

Posted: 3/13/2011 12:59:16 PM EDT

[#20]

Japan is a homogeneous society with a strong cultural respect for law and order, as well as property rights. They also don't have politicians pushing the whole class stratification concept on them.

Posted: 3/13/2011 1:21:03 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

Japan is a homogeneous society with a strong cultural respect for law and order, as well as property rights. They also don't have politicians pushing the whole class stratification concept on them.

And again the most restrictive building codes in the world, "big government" at it's finest.

Posted: 3/13/2011 2:03:03 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:
My Pastor, who is half Japanese told me a story of a man who forgot his briefcase in the Subway Terminal in Tokyo. He came back that afernoon and it was sitting there undisturbed. That is telling for a society. Not perfect by far but very respectful of others. Here? well we know what would happen here.

Subway station would have been evacuated, bag blown up by the bomb squad, and he'd have a bill for the cost of our "first responders" to roll out.

if it wasn't stolen first of course.

It would have been stolen. On the way to the subway from the man by two thugs.

I think it has alot to do with where in the country a disaster hit. Katrina taught us a little. If a disaster hit in San Fran, alot of the same thing would happen. If something hit farther north here in CA, it would be much different. Like already said, the Japanese people and most Americans are very different. If a disaster hit in San Diego vs Nashville, the people would respond very differently, changing the look of the disaster.

When the fires ripped through SD, 4 years ago, almost 1 million people were evacuated and relocated. It was very calm and orderly. The outpouring of generosity and support was heartwarming. Draw your own conclusions.

Posted: 3/13/2011 2:30:26 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Japan is a homogeneous society with a strong cultural respect for law and order, as well as property rights. They also don't have politicians pushing the whole class stratification concept on them.

And again the most restrictive building codes in the world, "big government" at it's finest.

This will be "big government in a country that is particularly prone to certain natural disasters such as earthquakes" who for some reason have decided to try and make sure all buildings are built to standards based around limiting damage from disasters? The same country where population density is so high in some areas that a building collapsing would impact on a disproportionately high number of people?

What a crazy idea enforcing strict codes, what on earth where they thinking about?

Here's an idea. Assume you'll live to be 100. If Japan manages to last from your date of birth to your date of death without ever suffering an earthquake or other natural disaster, please feel free to have the last laugh at those crazy Japanese and their even crazier "big government" building codes

If, on the other hand, you are making that comment in an approving way, please accept my apologies and feel free to disregard the above sarcasm

Posted: 3/13/2011 2:35:21 PM EDT

[#24]

Look at Katrina's response (or lack thereof) and judge for yourself.

Posted: 3/13/2011 2:39:13 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Thinking about the disaster (TEOTWAWKI) in Japan and their response. How would something similar work out in the US?
Other than the deaths from the event(s), there does not appear to be killing, looting or mayhem (yet at least). Maybe a different type of society?

I was thinking the same thing, no white trash or African American types.

I'd differentiate between black folks and black trash. the hard working black folks I grew up with were some of the kindest and most helpful folks I've had the privelage of knowing. Trash is trash, regardless of skin color.

As far as it goes, the best model we have is Katrina. No more need be said.

Ops

This, one of my best neighbors was black and the worst..........white as snow. I'd have traded him for 1000 decent black neighbors.

What I will say is that if one tends to spend most of your life on the govt dole, you are not very likely to be worth a damn in even the easiest of bad times.

Posted: 3/13/2011 2:40:15 PM EDT

[#26]

Maybe in North Dakota or Vermont.

Posted: 3/13/2011 2:57:43 PM EDT

[#27]

I've always thought this is actually a big hole in the whole TEOTWAWKI theory of massive unrest and lawlessness. It requires a sense of superiority over others to function, a group identity that's different from the masses.
That's why it seems to be most prevalent among people with a strong group identity that forms a significant part of their worldview, like a religion.

Hordes of mutant zombie cannibal looters require an "other" group to draw from, a group of inhuman barbarians just waiting for their chance to go on a rampage, and in reality there isn't one.

There are criminals of course, and they'd have greater opportunities, but in any disaster I can imagine the vast majority of people are still going to be human and any piece of garbage that takes advantage of a tragedy in that fashion would be dealt with pretty harshly.

You'd need a really big disaster, something so bad that civilization isn't going to go on, before people would really turn on each other in large numbers.

It'd be worse here, sure. Even many hardcore criminals would help defenseless people if it didn't cost them anything though.

Posted: 3/13/2011 3:12:30 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
I think there is one important comparison to make, we have Japan who has the most restricitive building codes in the world (i.e. BIG GOVERNMENT) and in one of the worst earthquakes recorded they loose what a couple thousand. Looking at Haiti where they "kept the government off people's backs" and buildings collapsed all over the country and killed how many??. The ONLY reason more people did not die in the initial quake is the extremely restrictive building codes.

yes, structural building codes serve a purpose.
thats only a fraction of the codes on the book.
many are idiotic.
hati is a 3rd world shithole. its not even fair to compare building there vs buildings in japan

Posted: 3/13/2011 3:28:43 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Japan is a homogeneous society with a strong cultural respect for law and order, as well as property rights. They also don't have politicians pushing the whole class stratification concept on them.

And again the most restrictive building codes in the world, "big government" at it's finest.

This will be "big government in a country that is particularly prone to certain natural disasters such as earthquakes" who for some reason have decided to try and make sure all buildings are built to standards based around limiting damage from disasters? The same country where population density is so high in some areas that a building collapsing would impact on a disproportionately high number of people?

What a crazy idea enforcing strict codes, what on earth where they thinking about?

Here's an idea. Assume you'll live to be 100. If Japan manages to last from your date of birth to your date of death without ever suffering an earthquake or other natural disaster, please feel free to have the last laugh at those crazy Japanese and their even crazier "big government" building codes

If, on the other hand, you are making that comment in an approving way, please accept my apologies and feel free to disregard the above sarcasm

I think your sarcasm meter is busted....

Posted: 3/13/2011 3:31:53 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I think there is one important comparison to make, we have Japan who has the most restricitive building codes in the world (i.e. BIG GOVERNMENT) and in one of the worst earthquakes recorded they loose what a couple thousand. Looking at Haiti where they "kept the government off people's backs" and buildings collapsed all over the country and killed how many??. The ONLY reason more people did not die in the initial quake is the extremely restrictive building codes.

yes, structural building codes serve a purpose.

thats only a fraction of the codes on the book.

many are idiotic.

hati is a 3rd world shithole. its not even fair to compare building there vs buildings in japan

No, it is totally fair Japan is much .gov oversight and VERY restrictive regulations and Haiti is lassez faire keep the .gov off the backs of the builders. Adding an earthquake to both of those situations side by side was a wonderful exercise in comparison.

Posted: 3/13/2011 3:39:43 PM EDT

[#31]

The only way that situation could be worse is if whatever happens there, happens somewhere else.

We would be killing eachother off in offense or defense right now if that happened here.

Some shit you cannot prep for... like being wiped off the earth by a tsunami.

Those who made it out would be in serious need (as they are) and those who did not get cleansed away would be defending their preps and lives from all sorts of "zombies"

Posted: 3/13/2011 3:41:16 PM EDT

[#32]

Third or fourth thread on this?

Posted: 3/13/2011 3:42:39 PM EDT

[#33]

It is a fair comparison, in NZ, you can see the effect on buildings constructed prior to earthquake regulation, and those constructed after.

Posted: 3/13/2011 3:43:27 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:

I think your sarcasm meter is busted....

Ahh yeah, turns out it was. I ever-so-slightly missed the first post you made that put the later post into context. Sorry about that

Edited to add: I think my mind couldn't handle the idea of someone on this site using the term "big government" without spitting and foaming at the mouth when they said it, so I assumed you were on the attack

Posted: 3/13/2011 3:47:12 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I think there is one important comparison to make, we have Japan who has the most restricitive building codes in the world (i.e. BIG GOVERNMENT) and in one of the worst earthquakes recorded they loose what a couple thousand. Looking at Haiti where they "kept the government off people's backs" and buildings collapsed all over the country and killed how many??. The ONLY reason more people did not die in the initial quake is the extremely restrictive building codes.

yes, structural building codes serve a purpose.
thats only a fraction of the codes on the book.
many are idiotic.
hati is a 3rd world shithole. its not even fair to compare building there vs buildings in japan

No, it is totally fair Japan is much .gov oversight and VERY restrictive regulations and Haiti is lassez faire keep the .gov off the backs of the builders. Adding an earthquake to both of those situations side by side was a wonderful exercise in comparison.

Haiti is a classic example of rampant government corruption resulting in anarchy. Trying to apply big vs small government philosophies to these two nations is foolish. Even without the regulations, Japan's proclivity to seismic activity would have necessitated advanced building techniques, driven by consumer demand and ingenuity.

Not sure what you're trying to accomplish by pushing this idea repeatedly.

Posted: 3/13/2011 9:58:45 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I think there is one important comparison to make, we have Japan who has the most restricitive building codes in the world (i.e. BIG GOVERNMENT) and in one of the worst earthquakes recorded they loose what a couple thousand. Looking at Haiti where they "kept the government off people's backs" and buildings collapsed all over the country and killed how many??. The ONLY reason more people did not die in the initial quake is the extremely restrictive building codes.

yes, structural building codes serve a purpose.

thats only a fraction of the codes on the book.

many are idiotic.

hati is a 3rd world shithole. its not even fair to compare building there vs buildings in japan

No, it is totally fair Japan is much .gov oversight and VERY restrictive regulations and Haiti is lassez faire keep the .gov off the backs of the builders. Adding an earthquake to both of those situations side by side was a wonderful exercise in comparison.

Haiti is a classic example of rampant government corruption resulting in anarchy. Trying to apply big vs small government philosophies to these two nations is foolish. Even without the regulations, Japan's proclivity to seismic activity would have necessitated advanced building techniques, driven by consumer demand and ingenuity.

Not sure what you're trying to accomplish by pushing this idea repeatedly.

Regulations have their place, that's it....

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