Me and my Mom got pulled over by a
Cop tonite, for what was later
deemed "unsafe lane changing", and
driving an "unsafe vehicle".

(BTW, she was driving)

Methinks that Cop had a quota to
fill, and our sh!theap 1986 Caprice
fit the bill.

Anyway, my mother is telling me that we can't
get out of our cars during a traffic stop
"for the officer's" safety.

I say:

"Look, did you see how that cop approached
our car from the traffic side? All someone
had to do was to knock him over into
the next lane over, where he would get
run over 3 secs later!"

For all of our Cop brethren on AW.Net,
I have to say this:

Never walk up to the driver's side door
when traffic is heavy. Do it from the
passenger side instead. You are much safer,
and people can't throw you into traffic
where you go SPLAT.

Ok, limited rant over. Some questions.

Why do cops use those spotlights mounted
in their roof pillars during traffic stops?

Is it to blind the occupants of the car,
preventing them from seeing what the cop
is doing in his cruiser?

Second, how pervasive is this dangerous procedure
of walking up to the driver's side of
the stopped car in heavy traffic?

What pisses me off is when the police don't have enough sense to pull all the way off the road, so traffic is all messed up. I think the spot lights are so he can see you, and you can't see him.

As I understand it, the use of the "takedown" lights (that's what they are called - they are also mounted in the newer lightbars,) is to allow the LEO to retain initiative and to create a limited "cover zone" in the event of shots fired.  It's related to the idea of security lights for a building being aimed OUTWARDS to blind attackers and to give occupants an extra edge.  So yes, they are trying to kill your night vision and make it more difficult to see what he's doing when he's not in arm's reach.

Departments all over are retraining officers to approach vehicles from the shoulder (passenger) side - especially if the vehicle has a single occupant.  The reason for this is twofold...

1) This will get the officer out of traffic and behind the safety (from traffic) of the vehicle.

2) This will afford the officer a better view of the driver, for reasons of officer safety.  

I do not believe this is yet a universal practise, but it is getting closer.

Why do cops not pull all the way out?  They are usually trained not to.  The idea there is to allow easier departure in the event of either a) going into pursuit (fleeing driver) or b) the need to respond to a more urgent call.  There are calls where an officer will have to give you back your paperwork and get going, and won't have time to wait for you to get out of his way.  That's why he doesn't pull over as far as the vehicle he has stopped.

Things you can do -

1) When an officer gives you the "steady red," turn on your hazzard indicators to acknowledge that you are to stop.

2) Look for a wide turnout or a well-lit parking lot. (you are about to lose your night vision anyhow.)  If on the freeway, assess the possibility of getting off the roadway and pulling over on a surface street.

3) Pull as far off the road as you can.  Owning a Jeep gives me an unfair advantage here...

4) Try to have your paperwork READY by the time to officer gets there.  Make no sudden moves.

5) BE POLITE.  Cops are people to, they just see more of the "worst of the bad" than we do.

The reasons for all this are twofold - the officer is less likely to give you an attitude if he's worth his shield, because he will see that you are looking out for him.

Also, I have gotten past several tickets this way (I admit it!)  I have also been "written down" for offences instead of "written up" - like doing 90/40 and getting hit for 50 or so...  It does work.  My kids still can't figure out how I do it - they drive like me and have the tickets to prove it.  I still get "good driver" on my insurance - andI get pulled over about as much as they do!

FFZ

hello.
have you ever been shot at on a traffic stop?
i have. i lived, my partner did not.
before you make stupid comments, ask someone who knows what they're talking about 'kay?

the idea of the spotlight is to illuminate the interior of the vehicle you are stopping.
the reflection from the rear view mirrors shines into the vehicle interior, illuminating potential threats, also making it harder for the occupants to determine where the officer is.
each dept has different training guidelines as to how to approach a vehicle, personally, i go with what feeling i'm getting at the time, if i think i should approach the pass side, i do so.  generally, i approach the driver side (that's where the DRIVER is)
but not all the time.

Cops are taught not to pull all the way over to the side during a carstop. They are taught to park behind and to the left of the car they pulled over. This is done for two reasons. The first being that the cruisers left hibeam headlight and spotlight are now trained on the offending driver's side view mirror preventing him from seeing what the cop is doing (The right side hibeams are supposed to hit the rearview mirror of the offender's car and also illuminates the interior). The second reason is to protect the officer from getting struck by an oncoming car when he approaches the driver's side of the offender's car. The theory being that the oncoming car will hit the police cruiser and not the cop.

Tactically, the cruiser is positioned behind and to the left of the car stopped, this provides SOME protection from passing cars.

The spotlight is used for both blinding the occupants and to provide light inside the car stopped.

The best thing would be to have the car drive off the highway or onto a less busy side street, but thats not always practical.

wow, you guys know more about my job than i do.
i quit, here's my badge, gun, lousy paycheck, stack of complaints and ulcer.
[:x]

It doesn't quite work like that. I could still
see the car, but not inside it, as the windshield
was flat black due to the glare effects.

Those takedown lights are worthless. What
the kops need is to replace
the front windshields of their cruisers
with armored glass to resist gunfire,
as a punk can easily fire rapid fire into
the driver's seat by eyeballing and making
an educated guess of the officer's location.

You need a vacation dood!

Wow, my condolences on the loss of your partner. i lost my partner of 5 years on 09/11, yet I survived. So I  can understand where you're coming from and what you are feeling....

Funny how everyone thinks when they get pulled over it's for a quota.  Of course it had nothing to do with someone driving unsafely (sarcasm)



Also for your own safety there GENIUS



How much time have you spent on the street in a Law Enforcement capacity?  That's what i thought, zero.



If they're so worthless then why are you bitching about them?  Are you willing as a tax payer (remember LEO's are tax payers too) to front the bill for bullet resistant glass for every cop car in the nation?

You know, i shouldn't have wasted my time answering your silly post.  It's amazing how stupid people act over a trivial traffic ticket, armchair quarterbacking our every movement as if we're the one who did something wrong.  If i recall correctly it was your own mother who made the unsafe lane change.  You can thank her.

Thank GOd you said something before I did!!!!!

As well as your safety, if I get hit by a car I'll get to retire on 3/4 pay for Line of Duty injury, you'll get sent to the hospital



One of the very real hazards of the job, it's been mentioned already about placing your sector car/cruiser behind and to the left of the offending vehicle for some protection




I know it sounds fu@&ed up to civilians but [b]EXACTLY[/b]

I noticed since I got my conceal permit the officer always goes to passenger side. If i'm driving with someone else or someone else's car always driver side.
What I don't understand is they know I am armed so they took extra precautions. Wouldn't you be more worried of the person you don't know if they are armed?

As I understand it, the use of the "takedown" lights (that's what they are called - they are also mounted in the newer lightbars,) is to allow the LEO to retain initiative and to create a limited "cover zone" in the event of shots fired.  It's related to the idea of security lights for a building being aimed OUTWARDS to blind attackers and to give occupants an extra edge.  So yes, they are trying to kill your night vision and make it more difficult to see what he's doing when he's not in arm's reach.

Departments all over are retraining officers to approach vehicles from the shoulder (passenger) side - especially if the vehicle has a single occupant.  The reason for this is twofold...

1) This will get the officer out of traffic and behind the safety (from traffic) of the vehicle.

2) This will afford the officer a better view of the driver, for reasons of officer safety.  

I do not believe this is yet a universal practise, but it is getting closer.

Why do cops not pull all the way out?  They are usually trained not to.  The idea there is to allow easier departure in the event of either a) going into pursuit (fleeing driver) or b) the need to respond to a more urgent call.  There are calls where an officer will have to give you back your paperwork and get going, and won't have time to wait for you to get out of his way.  That's why he doesn't pull over as far as the vehicle he has stopped.

Things you can do -

1) When an officer gives you the "steady red," turn on your hazzard indicators to acknowledge that you are to stop.

2) Look for a wide turnout or a well-lit parking lot. (you are about to lose your night vision anyhow.)  If on the freeway, assess the possibility of getting off the roadway and pulling over on a surface street.

3) Pull as far off the road as you can.  Owning a Jeep gives me an unfair advantage here...

4) Try to have your paperwork READY by the time to officer gets there.  Make no sudden moves.

5) BE POLITE.  Cops are people to, they just see more of the "worst of the bad" than we do.

The reasons for all this are twofold - the officer is less likely to give you an attitude if he's worth his shield, because he will see that you are looking out for him.

Also, I have gotten past several tickets this way (I admit it!)  I have also been "written down" for offences instead of "written up" - like doing 90/40 and getting hit for 50 or so...  It does work.  My kids still can't figure out how I do it - they drive like me and have the tickets to prove it.  I still get "good driver" on my insurance - andI get pulled over about as much as they do!

FFZ

Umm maybe I am missing something here. Maggot, do they have psychic cops where you are? I mean, how do they know whether you have a CCW/are armed when they do the stop? So they will walk up to one side or the other.

Traffic tickets are another form of government extortion pure and simple. A cop may "just be doing his job", but if your job is extortion, then you are an asshole.

I have never seen a cop stop a crime. It is such a rare occurance, it will usually make the frone section of the paper if not the front page. I have stopped several crimes. I did not even make honorable mention in the paper's social section.

So we have to be concerned about the cop's safety? And our own? I think the excessive level of concern for one's hide that is so everpresent in our society used to be called cowardice, but hey what do I know. Remember those brave cops who bravely waited outside of Columbine and then bravely held obviously unarmed children at gunpoint as they bravely waited for the shooting to stop in the school before bravely going in en masse?

You afraid of white teens in an expensive SUV and little old ladies? Don't be a cop then. Stay at home and hide under your bed, for your own personal safety, of course. I have been and will always be a risk taker. Life without risk is a life unlived.

Less than 65 cops die a year on average. Half of those are suicides. It is far more dangerous to be a stevedore or work the deck of an aircraft carrier. I guess those guys on the flight deck should be more concerned for their own personal safety, as opposed to running over to a rack filled with bombs and shoving it overboard because it is in the middle of a fuel fire.

Ever see Silver Star or CMH write ups? They say things like "with a conspicuous disregard for his own personal safety" etc etc etc. Being a chickenshit ain't heroic, and a chickenshit who extorts decent people is even less so.

A cop is a clerk with a gun, and don't you forget it.

Boy, this will get good now.[rolleyes]  

Most people who get stopped earned it. So suck it up and take your lick. The only time I ever got a BS traffic violation was 1 time and that was the day I got schooled in the proper way to deal with it in the future.
I was living in a small neighborhood, backed out of my driveway one night and coasted maybe 15ft before I switched my lights on. I get to the end of the street and a cop was parked there. I get the flashing blues and I stop. The officer tells me I'm getting a ticket for driving without headlights. I wasn't even on a real street and it was less than 20ft. I learned this:

A)Never refuse to sign the ticket. That's what the court date is for.

B)Never tell the officer what you would like them to do with said ticket in a graphic nature.

Item B resulted in the officer returning to her car and 2 minutes later a 2nd car arrives with Officer Hardcore (I swear he must cut his hair with a KBAR and pin his badge right into the skin on his chest!) Needless to say, my evening plans changed. I got locked up and more charges added and in the end paid mega fines when I could of got it thrown out. I am now super friendly to all LEOs. [BD]

If you don't like the Law then either surrender your operator's license or move to another country.



If you'd stop slathering yourself in peanut butter while wearing your grandma's underwear and masterbating on the internet.



So i guess the officers should have marched right on in there eh?  You have no idea do you?  I could have a field day with this one...



Who mentioned anything about white people? or SUV's?  Little old ladies?  No cop here is bitching about being a cop.  We're defending ourselves to people who want to bitch about us doing our job because they broke the law in the first place.



Where in the hell did you get that statistic from?  Even if the figure was correct that would be 65 too many.

I'm not even going to comment on the rest of your bullshit.  Switch hands and finish yourself off little boy.

You have no idea how heavy a badge is...

Dude, you are freakin' hillarious![>Q]
Have a great day!

A cop is NOT a clerk with a gun - but that does not mean that I agree with EVERYTHING they do, either...

Extortion by the state is something to deal with in the LEGISLATIVE branch, where they actually WRITE, PASS, and ENACT the laws - not the cops, who are an executive agency (charged with EXECUTING the laws.)  Some cops like some laws even less than you do, I am sure.  They are trying to do their job.  Don't you have a job?  Any part of it you don't like?  Why do you do it?

As far as a cop actually stopping crime - it is essentially true that in major incidents the PD serves an "historian" function relative to the actual incident.  However, it is all that investigation after the fact that we pay them for.  Stopping a crime in progress?  Bud, there just ain't that many cops.  Frankly, I don't want that many cops, either.  I just want my CCW.  When cops outnumber citizens we have a POLICE STATE.  No damn fun.

I've seen Silver Star writeups - I HAVE ONE.  No, I'm not going into detail, as you wouldn't understand anyhow.  Ever see a writeup for a PD Valour award?  They look a lot alike...

Everytime a cop pulls someone over, he is taking his life in his hands.  He does this maybe several dozen times on a busy night, but what does he get?  In 30 years he gets a tiny pension and a cheap gold watch.

No, I will continue to be civil with cops, and save my bile for Sacramento and DC - where it is needed most.  You do not kill a dragon by chopping at his feet!

BTW - poikilotrm (WTF kinda name is that?) you better learn a little more about the thin blue line before you see fit to criticise it again.  As I have said before (and sorry for the double post everyone!) I am not myself a cop - I don't have the temperament! - I have been closely associated with police in various capacities for most of my life, and know cops in general farily well!

FFZ

I never pull over.  That way I don't have to worry about the cop accidentally shooting me or anything.

Part of being wise is to know when to keep your mouth shut when you have no idea what you are talking about.  

There are plenty of officers on here to answer these questions.  Why do some people feel they have to guess?  Internet experts crack me up.

Wrong. About 65 law enforcement officers are murdered every year. About 2-3 times that number die in other ways on duty or directly-related to duty, mostly traffic accidents but a few aircraft accidents, training accidents drowning, burned to death, electrocuted, die of job-related diseases (Hep and HIV) ans so on.

Suicide stats are a lot tougher to hunt down. It may be as high as a few thousand a year. It is probably the cumulative corrosive effect of seeing so much human misery that you can't do anything about. Police also have significantly higher divorce, alcoholism and other stress-related disease rates. Many, many cops die within a few years of retirement of heart disease.

It is a dangerous job. Go to [url]www.fbi.gov/ucr[/url] for a detailed list of how officers died in the line of duty in 2000, the last year stats were available for. There was a big jump in 2001 for all of the officers killed on 9-11.

edited to fix link

Pile one!  

Hey poik...

In the last ten years, there have been an average of 163 deaths per year 59,693 assaults per year, and 18,995 injuries per year.

[url]http://www.nleomf.com/FactsFigures/killedlod.html[/url]


How did someone else put it?  One can only hope that you act in the *real world* like you act here.

Help me out here, I'm trying to decide which is more pathetic. Your critisizing of something you know nothing about,  or the fact you mother still drives you around.  BTW:  Just how many gun boards are you going to post this on?

According to a friend that is in the SC Highway Patrol, they are told they must turn them on for traffic stops at night.  It is a major annoyance for oncoming traffic.  The police in this state give a 4 point (three of those and your license is suspended) for not dimming your bright lights, but the police flash the bright lights and turn on the spotlights on the lightbar as a policy.  That makes it hard for oncoming traffic to see.  What's the logic behind that?  I know the officer's safety is improved with the increased light, but considering more officers die in traffic accidents, including a good friend who had a truck hit his cruiser on I-85 and knocked it into him, than from the actions occupants of the stopped vehicle.  It just doesn't make sense to make it even more dangerous for the officer by impairing other drivers around them.z

This thread started as a simple question and has turned into knee-high pile of sh!t.

I love when people start throwing out "national figures", but they can't back it up.

Got a love the:
[size=4][red]ARMCHAIR[/RED][BLUE],IKNOWITALL, DON'TTELLME,YOUKNOWNOTHING,EVERYTHINGISAYGOES[/BLUE] [RED]COMMANDOS[/RED][SIZE=4]

We don't have quotas anymore. We can write as many as we want.[;)]

Think about things. You get stopped once or twice in your life.
An officer may stop 20 or 30 vehicles a day.
You know the officer's intentions.
The officer doesn't know yours.
The officer is going to give you a warning, write you a citation, or arrest you if you have a warrant.
You are going to cooperate, argue, fight, or try and kill the officer.
So you get stressed out once or twice in your life, the office deals with this stress 30 times a day. I think officers have more to worry about then the people they stop.

That being said, if an officer uses a tactic or "Take down light" that enhances his/her chances and doesn't harm the person they are stopping, why are some of you bitching?

I doesn't matter how the officer approaches a vehicle as long as he/she feels they are doing it safely.
If traffic is heavy or you stop on the line and that puts me standing in the lane of traffic, then I usually approach from the passinger side. Otherwise I go to the driver's side.

I'm not afraid to go upto your vehicle, but I do take percautions to insure my safety.

HEY!....I always knock down my mirrors because I can't stand the lights in my eyes.  Whoops.  I didn't realize that it's supposed to illuminate the interior, I just thought it was done for the tactical advantage and intimidation factor.

That said, I still get my stuff ready right away, leave the window open, leave the dome light on, keep both hands on the wheel, AND SHUT OFF THE CAR, NO MATTER WHAT.

One thing I do with many people I stop, is when they complain about the lights, I explain to them WHY the lights are on (for most of the same reasons posted here). I have found that a little bit of talking, and explaining some of the seeming peculiar (to the uniformed) things that police officers do can go along way to clearing up these unfortunate misunderstandings that cause knee-jerk "I hate cops" responses.

After all, If you knew that doing a bunch of little things, like positioning your vehicle properly, using tactical lighting and cover could all increase your chances of making it home alive, wouldn't you do it? While there are many dangerous jobs, law enforcement carries an inherent significant risk. That risk has been lessened over the last couple of decades by better tactics and equipment. Failing to use these "standard" practices and technologies is unecessarily risking lives and just plain stupid.

Correct me if I am wrong, but don't cops take an oath to uphold the CONSTITUTION? If a law violates that, then they are wrong in enforcing that. It isn't up to just the Legislature or the Judiciary to decide what laws are Constitutional. The Executive is also has a duty.
Sure, there are parts of my job I don't like, but then again, my job doesn't have a monopoly of force and the ability to destroy lives, for right or wrong.

Ok, first thing is that I AM NOT flaming any LEO's that have posted here so far... but I do have a question.  Why do some of you feel the need to freak out when asked a question that pertains to your job (quietshoez)?  Granted, MKSheppard could've come across a bit more tactfully, but he had a couple of valid questions.  Why not just explain from your point of view, rather than turn on the torch?  I know cops often have a crappy job, but they choose to do it...it's kind of like an astronaut complaining about weightlessness. Some of us 'civilians' just want to know why cops sometimes do what they do, because, from the outside, it can come across as tyrannical, belligerant and/or dangerous behavior.  

Some individuals personal experience may lead them to think that most cops are a$$holes, which obviously isn't true, but your handling of police-oriented topics will either reinforce this perception, or help eradicate it.  It just kills me when you ask a cop about something, and you get attitude like "don't question what we do, we're dealing with scumbags all day long to save your butt, peon!"


Ps, sorry to hear about your partner 'Shoez.[:(]



Edited to add, a3kid what's with jumping on the new guy...?  

You're right.  I deleted it.

I guess the topic name (Stupid Cops...) followed by the questions rubbed me the wrong way.  If you don't understand, ask first, then if it's stupid say so.

Nerves are a little on end these days.

After I got out of the Army I did two years as an LEO in Louisiana. I know what I am talking about. Once I realized what a scam I was participating in and what type of people I was associating with, I quit.

Most cops were either bullies who grew up but didn't want to leave the life they knew in school or were bullied as kids and then wanted a chance to be bullies.

DScott, I left the 1 off by accident when I was talking about numbers of deaths. Sorry for the typo. I am a lousy typist. That should have been 165.

I have not posted this on any other boards. If I have, please show where Johninaustin.

The proliferation of ad hominem attacks just goes to show that if you are intelligent and thoughtful, you probably don't wear a badge.

Of course they feel the need to freak out gunbert. Thery know what they are doing is wrong in most cases. The people who scream lodest are always the people with the most to hide or be ashamed of. Lie, attack, and make counter accusations if you want to distract people from the truth. Weren't any of you people around for the Clinton years?

Maybe, just maybe, it has to do with the attitudes cops get to see day in and day out at "the job". Most remain professional and don't fire back with quick little quips.

Having said that, I thought this was a "social" site?!! Maybe ii is supposed to entertain, in many ways, political discussion, religous, foriegn affairs, laws pertaining to weapons, and sometimes there are actually post here about AR-15's. [:)]

So I guess that we would all be equals involved in conversation. Guess what just like a lot of people when you smart off to them, you get a smart answer. The LEO's may just be trying to "blend" into the site. Well guess what if you get in a person to person talk and start calling names you may get some back.

I think sport there set the tone that he wanted when he titled the post.

It came across that way to me too, Oly...

For such an intelligent and thoughtful guy you seem awful ready to call names, stereotype, and genralize.

Do your vocal cords hurt from all your loud screaming?

I don't think you do know what you are talking about. I am also former LEO, left for reasons other than yours(financial), but I did my job the way I felt it was supposed to be done and found it to be a rewarding experience. Just like they say in the ARMY, you get from it what you put into it.

I'll definately agree that the title of the topic was rather dumb, and definately not the best way to endear yourself to the guys you're trying to get info from.

Seems to be a lot of that going around... we should all meet at a strip club and discuss it over a blond and a beer.[;)]

Or a waitress with nothin' on it.  [:D]

a3kid,

being from Ohio explains a lot !!! i am from Ohio............., about 2500 miles from that hole !! i left the "Hall of Fame Town", on a passenger train to Navy boot camp..., i ain't looked back since !!

When an officer runs your plate on his little computer thing, I was told that it shows that if you have a concealed weapons permit. That is why I believe they treat me diffrent. Not that they are psychic.
Also they have been taking my weapon and they bring it back to there cruiser. I don't know why, maybe to check to see if it is stolen? Then they ask me to open my glove compartment and place it back in there, unloaded and then they throw in the bullets. This has happend THREE times same exact way.
Only got one ticket for "driving on the sidewalk" don't ask! lol

So I guess my questions are:
1. Does it show I carry a weapon when they run my plate?
2. Why do they take my weapon?

Ah, then.

I will outfit my first truck with a hidden
bank of headlights all angled towards
where a cop car would be during a traffic
stop.

Cop pulls me over from now on, using those
damn "takedown" lights, oh well.

I light off the hidden high beams in my rear
end, and BLIND HIM TOO.

Don't like it? Too F***ing bad. Stop treating
us like criminals, and we'll stop treating you
like scum.

"Many, many cops die within a few years of retirement of heart disease."

donuts...more addicting than crack.

Will your mommy let you put them on her car?

Before you act anymore juvenile, did it ever occur to you that cops actually do get to meet BG's on traffic stops?? But then again I don't think this little internet "why do cops......." has anything to do with anything other than the fact you are having a little pity party, tantrum because mommy got pulled over. If your demeanor here is any indicator, the cop that stop you probably didn't like your attitiude.

Now your gonna come here and run down a bunch of people who had nothing to do with that traffic stop.

Why don't you grow, wise up, and shut up until you can act like something aproachin a responsible person.