The GOP fell 14 votes short in attempting to override a Democratic filibuster against the proposed drilling in the Alaska National Wildlife Refuge.

See story at:[url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8812-2002Apr18.html[/url]

Great, just friggin' great! Now we are left with an energy bill that will not provide one btu of energy whatsoever!

Eric The(ThankYouSenJeffords!)Hun[>]:)]

Stupid Watermelon Socialists! I can't stand environmentalists!

First of all, this isn't a flame, nor am I some hippie tree-hugger. But here are the facts-

1- USGS has determined that the area the oil companies want to drill will give us only 3.2 Billion Barrels (6 months supply) of oil at current energy consumption rate or our country.

2- The oil companies already have 95% of Alaska's Northern Slope open to drilling. The Wildlife Refuge is only the last 5%.

3- It will take us 10 years to even bring the oil down here to use. 10 years of creating infrastructure for the drilling and connecting it to the pipleine already there.

4- The oil will not even come to the U.S. but will go to Japan instead (They pay 23USD per gallon over there). The oil will be brought to Washington State and California to be refined, then exported to Japan, because this generated more revenue for the oil companies.

As you can see, this will NOT help our energy crisis, but will destroy our last unspoiled wilderness and wildlife.

What we need is an energy bill that is not an Enron backed money generator for Exxon-Mobile.


Just my .02

Prediction: Over the next two weeks, you will see gasoline prices increase by 10-15 cents per gallon.

The Arabs and the terrorists KNOW the Liberals have got our contry by the balls, and that there will be no competition on the world oil markets for years to come.

So they'll raise prices.

This projects EXACTLY the kind of weakness that terrrorists always respond to by attacking.

Speaking of balls....

its HIGH time Bush grew some, and grabbed the Democraps by theirs, dragged them in front of the American people, and exposed them for the obstructionists they are.

I really don't give to shakes and a whistle about ANWR, what I do care about is drilling off the coast of California and the Gulf of Mexico.

The biggest pertolium reserve in the world is just off the shores of Florida, but because of the eco-freaks we can't touch it. Same story in Cali, huge deposite, not allowed to touch it.

What do you (or anyone else, for that matter) suggest would do the trick here?

Huh?  We currently drill all over the continental US, plus Alaska and the GOM.  Can you tell me what wilderness and wildlife has been destroyed?

Just what Armed_Scientist suggested. The biggest oil reserve in the world is just northeast of the Caribbean(sp). USGS has said that we have about 50+ years (at current consumption rates) of fuel reserves there, and it would take us 2 years to get to it.

Or Russia. Russia has [B]NEVER IMPORTED 1 GALLON OF FUEL.[/B] We could be exclusive with Russia in the Oil trade, have all our energy needs met, and bankrupt OPEC in the process!!! 2 birds with 1 stone. The only reason we don't is because Exxon-Mobile and other Humongus oil conglomerates have such huge interests in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and other Middle East Nations, they won't let the government begin Oil Trade Relations with Russia.

Are any of those ideas adiquate??

Nine out of Ten Caribou Support Drilling



[url]http://www.townhall.com/columnists/anncoulter/ac20020418.shtml[/url]

Sure how about the Valdeze??? MY region still hasn't fully recovered from that spill. Or the salmon streams that were destroyed in the south Puget Sound due to a pipeline explosion/oil spill? How about the 3 kids that were killed a year ago in the Olimpic Pipline Explosion? If I had all the references in front of me, I could cite accident after accident.

This wilderness is COMPLETELY untouched. You know when people explain that wild animals aren't afraid of humans when they have never see/experienced them before?? Like Pinguins(sp) in the Antarctic? Well the Alaskan Wild Carribou are the last wild herd of Carribou on the face of the planet to be oblivious to humans.

I'm no Tree-Hugger-Pot-Smokin'-Hippie, but as a Conservative Republican, I can understand the facts and those are reasons enough to me to preserve the last 5% of the Northern Slope.

Just my .02

[u]500 years ago-[/u]

Johnny Carribou says to Billy Carribou, "Yo man, this place is damn cold!"

Billy Carribou, "Yeah, wonder what could we do warm it up?"

(Silent Pause while they think)

Johnny Carribou, "Oh, I got a great idea!! Let's get those stupid human-animals over there to create "Internal Combustion", and that way they'll need fuel to power their machines. Then they'll come up here and put up a bunch or metal grey things that mine their fuel, and create heat for us to stand next to and keep warm!!!"

Billy Carribou, "Yeah, great fuckin' idea!"


-That's just what they were thinkin' too, right. Tell me, just how many Carribou told reporters they were in favor of the drilling, and where can I get the audio clips???



Edited, 'cause I'm a dweeb. [:)]

Oh, but it will create jobs for Americans.  You can't be against that, can you?


Let the free market do its thing, we will all be better off in the end if we do.

It's ExxonMobil or sometimes Exxon Mobil (they screwed up on the filings for incorporation)

[;)]

Edited to add.
Is that true about the ANWR oil all going to Japan?

problem is that the environmentalists don't like nuclear plants either. If we could replace all gas, coal and oil burning plants with nuclear power plants, we'd stretch our fuel supply a lot longer.

Sorry about the spelling, we aren't all perfect.


It is totally true, [b]NONE[/b] of the oil that comes from Alaska ends up here, it all goes to Japan, because they can make 26 times over there what they would make over here. All our oil comes from the Middle East. So none of this new oil would help us in the least.

Editid bekause I spel things rong.

Yeah tell that to the people in Hanford, WA. You know, the ones who can't have children because they're sterile. Or better yet, tell that to the children that grew up in Hanford, the ones whith Luekemia, Lymphoma(sp), and various other cancers.

Do you really think we should sacrifice the health and wellbeing of ourselves, and our children in the name of energy??? I certaintly hope not

None of your examples relate to drilling.  The Valdez was a tanker spill.  The more oil we have to import, the more tankers will be in our waters.

Possible ANWR production numbers:

95% chance of producing 2 Billion barrels which is roughly (7) months supply at current consumption levels.

5% chance of producing 9.4 billion barrels or something around 32 months supply.  Also at current consumption.

The ANWR clearly cannot be 'the' answer but could be part of the answer.

Uhlek, we do not KNOW how much oil is available at ANWR.  Your figures are misleading.  Enviro groups (and Democrats) have blocked any actual testing that would determine the amount of oil.

That 6 month supply figure (for the low estimate of oil, 3 bilion barrels, the high estimate is 15 billion barrels, which you conveniently fail to mention) is applicable only if we ceased using ANY oil from ANY other source (i.e. all of our oil exclusively from ANWR).  That 6 month quote is used to deceive, not inform.

Further, the Caribou population has tripled since they started drilling in the area.  The local native population supports drilling.  How come we give Indian tribes the right to open up worthless casinos everywhere, but when some natives in ANWR want to develop the oil fields on THEIR land, people like Uhlek say no?

One modern oil well can drill FIVE MILES from its location.  We do not need a bunch of wells to do the job.  One (or a few) drill site(s) the size of a football field can provide us with up to 15 Billion barrels of oil.  Technology has come a long way.

Did you know that there never has been an oil spill from an oil rig in the Gulf of Mexico?   PLEASE spare us your oil spill disaster scenarios.

Our health and well being has NOT suffered because of energy.  Americans (energy hogs that we are, we consume 25 percent of the worlds energy but produce 30 percent of the world's output, so it's not like it's being wasted) are living longer and longer.  There's supposed to be all this bad stuff in the environmetn, yet we live longer.  How do you reconcile that fact? There is no real evidence that we are dying because of energy consumption. GET REAL.  33% percent of people die of cancer.  That hasn't changed over the years.  And it won't be enironmentalists and animal rights people that cure cancer.  It will be capitalist pigs that use energy and do animal research for new medications and cures.

What is the scientific evidence that leukemia (or anything else) in Hanover was caused by Nuclear power?

So say it is 15 billion barrels, that's just 15 billion Barrels that we can sell off to Japan, right? Because that is exactally what we're doing with it. Not a SINGLE GALLON of oil from Alaska has ever been consumed by an American. They have all been for export. [b]How does this help our Energy Crisis?[/b] And what if it is just 6 months supply? Wouldn't that be a sad waste.



Read my post above about the Caribou...

Yes Eskimos want the drilling, wouldn't you gladly take payments into the thousnads of dollars if some company wanted to go into your backyard and dig up your sand??? Of course. But are you willing to leave the US Government liable for any damages that occur as a result of the drilling. Like in 40 years a class action lawsuit against the US Gov't by the Eskimo people for destroying their land. Who's going to go and clean up all the leftover equipment in 15 years after all the oil is mined? It will just sit there and rust. Won't that be pretty.



I don't understand what this statement is driving at. It just sounds like an angry attack on my person. Don't attack me, attack the issues. It's the issues we are arguing, not eachother. Show me respect, I'll show you respect.



Where did this Gulf of Mexico stuff come from. I support drilling in the Gulf, NOT in Alaska. Re-read my post from above.



It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if 43% of the children are coming down with various cancers, that there is something going on.



BTW- My side is winning so far [:)]

No it's not. Haven't you heard about the Yukka(sp) Mts. in Nevada. They want to dump all the waste material from Nuclear Power plants there, and the Governor is having a shit fit about it. EVERY Nuclear Power plant creates waste as a part of the process of making energy. We need some place to put this toxic nuclear waste. Where???


Cleaner energy sources are-

Wind: Which the Dutch have used for centuries, and many states and other countries use.
Solar: Which is used worldwide.
Water & Geothermal- Both are in the testing stages and aren't being used to great effect as of yet.

None of these are anywhere near beeing cost effective.

I agree the tree-huggers say it is only 3-6 months of oil. That is if we use it EXCLUSIVELY for the next 3-6 months. Combined wiht our other resources it is part of the solution like said before.

I am all for the drilling of the gulf of mexico.

And how has Alaska no recovered from the Valdes incident?

Clearly, even if we made use of everything we're looking at "running out of gas" in 50 - 100 years.  That's in our kid's lifetimes.  We need another energy source.

We need another energy source, and nuclear ain't it.  When people boast about how "clean" nuclear is, they are referring to the lack of combustion pollutants.  Frankly, I'd rather breathe a little smog than have 5 eyes and 2 dicks from living next to a nuclear waste storage facility.

Gas goes up 10 cents...  Whine, whine, whine...  Gimme a f-ing break!  Besides Saudi, we have the cheapest gas on Earth!  Everyone else pays damn near 2 bucks a gallon.  If gas prices are bothering you, buy a freaking Civic.  If 2 bucks a gallon is the price I pay for my truck than so be it - that's the trade off for driving a 10 mog vehicle.

Living in Texas it is painfully ovious that if we wanted to we could power this entire state through wind, solar, tidal, & geothermal energy.  Will it ever happen?  Doubtful, given that this state is run by oil interests but that's the way it goes.  It still doesn't mean we should rape our country's environmental heritage just to appease the oil companies, the politicians in their pockets, & people who complain about 10 cent gas hikes...

Solar a bad thing?
Well my electric bill for last month was $10.24.
They charged be a $12.00 service charge so bill total was $24.24.  Sure Im in Florida, but we need heat there too. All I have is SHW and use floro lights. Use solar tubes and skylights.
So well all CAN help in this energy thing, but like most people they will bitch, but won't do anything........
So   drill, drill, drill it is only going to last a few years anyway.
So why not develope an alternative energy supply?
9/11 loss of life would not have been so great if the planes had been using hydrogen.
Creating a new supply will for the most part create as many or might even create more jobs.

my 15 minutes are up.

So, we should soley rely on the terrorist
Arab Nations and fund them out the ying yang?

That is 50+ years at current consumption, current extraction methods, and with currently known reserves.  I can guarantee you that mankind will become more efficient at using, extracting, and finding oil such that we will not have to worry about running out.  Also, if oil was really going to run out in the time period you suggest the price would be many times higher than it currently is.  Supposing that we really will run out of oil, as that point is approached, the price will rise.  As the price rises people will automatically respond by reducing and conserving oil and relying on and developing other sources of energy.

Maybe it is time for another Paul Ehrlich vs. Julian Simon bet.  Anyone here want to play Paul Ehrlich?

We should 'NEVER' even consider using natural gas to power automobiles and light trucks.

'NEVER' !

Uhlek,

I point out that Oil drilling/extraction technology has advanced to the point of near perfection and you go off on irrelevant tangents.

U.S. Government liability?  Class action lawsuits?  Rusting equipment?  Blight on the landscape?  Tangential, irrrelevant fear mongering about stuff that won't happen.  BTW, the ANWR is a barren frozen tundra.  It is not a vacation spot and it is not teeming with wildlife.  There's a whole lotta nuthin' up there and it is ice and snow for ten months a year.

Are there accidents.  Yes.  But they are extremely rare and are much easier to control and clean up on land where the drilling will take place.  Indeed, much of it will occur on ice which is super easy to clean up and the extreme cold weather (down to -100 degrees) will help coagulate the oil which would vastly reduce its ability to spread.  Your oil spill fears (Exxon, salmon) are not relevant to ANWR.

Another thing you got wrong is that we get "all of our oil from the Middle East".  That is just plain wrong.  We get less than 18 percent of our oil from the middle east (Saudi Arabia).  We get our oil from Mexico, USA, Venezuela, and Canada.

Another quote from you: "It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if 43% of the children are coming down with various cancers, that there is something going on."

If I were to accept that 43 percent of the children had cancer, which I do not barring actual evidence, how do you know what caused the cancer?  

Did you conduct tests?  Did you monitor where these children spent their time?  Did you monitor what they ate?  Was there asbestos in their school?  Is there Radon gas in their homes?  Did you test the drinking water?  Do the parents smoke cigarettes?  Did the kids sit very close to the TV when watching TV?  Do you know if there is a genetic predisposition for cancer in their families?  Did you eliminate all other possible cancer factors before you came to your conclusion that "nuclear power" was the cause?  You say "there is something going on".   You actually don't know what is going on, do you Mr. Rocket Scientist?

Another item:  I say that "people like Uhlek say no" to native people who want drilling on their land.  You take this as an "angry attack on my person".  Are you for real?  How is that angry?  How is that an attack?  Aren't you proud that you and the Democrats have stopped drilling at ANWR?  Be proud of your victory.

I am pointing out how anti ANWR drilling folks have impinged on the native people's right to self determination.   People who share your beliefs and live 1000 miles away are telling them how to live and they're placing economic barriers to their advancement.

P.S. If you are sensitive to the point of wet tissue paper skin when it comes to getting your feelings hurt ("people like Uhlek say no", my god how mean and angry I am), I cannot respect that.  Toughen up a little.

Actually countries like Britain and Japan pay closer to 4 dollars a gallon.

So? Accidents happen no matter what you do. There are accidents making cars, computers, or just about anything that man makes. It is a part of life. Are you saying that we should go back to a life without technology?


And completely barren! It is dark 24hours a day for 50+ days! There caribou aren't even there! And who cares if it IS completely untouched? Why does it being "pristine"(although wasteland would be a better word) make it sacred? Have you been there? Will you ever go there?


Could have fooled me.


I never heard of any incident at Hanford. In any case, accidents at Nuke plants are rare, and even if there is one it is not as damaging as any of the other major industrial accidents, or any war for that matter.


Of course not: I maintain, however, that we would be harming our health while we used nuclear power.


So what if it all goes to Japan? That means there is OTHER oil that normally would go to Japan that would come to us. And it also means that the price would drop


Which didn't make any sense. Anyway: When they would drill, it would be PITCH BLACK, and there would not be a SINGLE living thing(aside from bacteria and other like organisms). So the Caribou population wouldn't be effective. And, it might even increase, like what happened at the pipeline up there.


What does any of that have to do with any of what we are talking about?


It might if there is NO evidence offered in support of it.




That's a little arrogant. And I'd say MY sind is winning.


How about sending it into space? Mecury or even right into the sun?



None of which are economically feasible.

Eric the Hon = Texas oil man= republican zealot=tool of the party=egopig

So far I've seen nobody with any credentials speak on this.  Since I don't have any either, I'll just say that we should cut our oil consumption and use wind/solar, which is much more efficient.  That way, we could have our energy and not destroy the environment.

But that wouldn't serve our president and his VP, who's fortunes come from oil.

IMHO.

Or 6.  Or more.  We have cheap oil.

Alright, I'll defend ya, Uhlek, not that you need it.

Folks, his points are well made. The bottom line is drilling in that wilderness does VERY LITTLE for our energy solutions. There are other places to drill. Drilling there would only be a gift to Bush'soil buddies. I'll bet my salaries for the rest of my life that Halliburton will get the drilling contracts.

We have to develop other sources of energy. I'm surprised and disappointed that so many of you are not recognizing your hypocrisy. You'll rant about the "dirty ragheads" but you continue to buy Expeditions, Excursions, etc... because it's "your right as an American consumer", and continue to suckle at the oil coming out of their cocks.

Pardon my language, but we all need to change our habits and our consumption. you DO NOT have the right to rape the land to satisfy your excesses, and as long as you buy your Ford 3000XLT Landraker 4x4  Triton Titanic V-8s, you have no right to criticize the Arab world for what they do.

Leave that land alone. I'd like to get up there soon, and I don't want to see a bunch of drilling platforms. Especially when there's not enough there to make a difference.

To some of you: STOP TOEING THE PARTY LINE. JUST BECAUSE BUSH IS NOT CLINTON DOESN'T MAKE HIM RIGHT. STOP BEING PARROTS.

Don't blame Jim Jeffords on this one. he wouldn't have made a difference.  

May I point out the obvious?  If there is such a pitiful amount of oil as you and Uhlek are claiming then no oil company would drill there of there own free will.  Conversely, the fact that oil mining companies want to drill there is very good evidence that the oil in the ANWR is worth more than you claim.

WOW!!

Sure are a lot of whiny tree hugging wackoes on this site.  Whod a thunk it??

Drill, drill,  drill,  drill,  drill.

We are man, we are meant to use these resources God has given us.  With in reason of course which is often followed.

I have never met a single person how was against any type of oil drilling who [i]didn't[/i] also own a car.

If you really support solar or wind then ride a bike.  I prefer my car.

Sgt(proudtobealazyAmerican)ar15

Attack of the mall ninjas with a cocaine induced attitude and almost old enough to buy a rifle.
I think that the Hun would own up to all but the egopig, and I have never seen a post indicating he owns oil wells.

grimshaw, you should have noticed that this site is infested with right-wing gun owners with an attitude and an education. To paraprase a recent post by one of us: we like to hunt and shoot little furry animals, barbeque, drink beer, etc. We vote republican. We are only politically correct by accident. We are disgusted by attitudes like yours. We are proud of what we are. I guess we are egopigs.

We do have the right to criticize a group so stupid as to spit in the face of the nation largely responsible for what little wealth they do have. Our excesses fund these idiots who think they can attack us for our way of life, because their attitude is one that "If I can't be happy nobody should."

If they were really religiously against us, they would simply refuse to sell oil to us or anyone else, thus bringing to a screaming halt the society that their religion requires them to hate so. But then they would have nothing at all, any of them.

So to slap down the dog that repeatedly bites the hand that feeds it is not only our right, but necessary.

I have heard some people blame nuclear power for all the types of cancer in an area.  I would like to say that this is absolute hogwash.  There are some nuke plants with problems in this country, but they are/were associated with making plutonium for nuclear weapons.  

Nuclear power is a very clean method of making power.  It is the cleanest large power producer there is.   I agree that solar/wind/water should be used as much as possible, but I would much rather use nuclear power over coal/gas/oil for the remainder.

As far as drilling in Alaska, I don't know if it is the right thing to do.  I do know that buying oil from the Arabs is the wrong thing to do.

I'll take that bet.  Halliburton does not drill for or produce oil.  It is a service company in the oil and gas industry.

Yes, where do you think the Plutonium came for the original Nuclear Bomb tests? Where do you think the Plutonium for the Nuclear Bombs that were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki came from? Hmm?

Hanford Nuclear Power Plant.

Enough said.



Edited for formatting.