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Posted: 11/20/2021 11:57:57 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: Last night I went down the rabbit hole on corexy printers. It seems that a lot of people really ooo and ahh over them. One vid that I watched was on the Voron. It seemed a bit much to me that you have to drop like $1200 and still have to build from scratch. Is corexy really better or is it just different and not as common? Better within it's strengths, yes. Also unless you are getting an industrial printer the top end of the market is going to be DIY, and will remain so for the foreseeable future. ETA: I'm slowly acquiring parts for a v0.1 |
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Posted: 11/20/2021 12:17:44 PM EDT
[#2]
I prefer ratrig over the voron myself.
Their 400x400's are amazing. Putting together a couple fo the 500x500's now. I expect them to be equally as capable. Really looking forward to the RatRig Minion. |
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Posted: 11/20/2021 1:39:45 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Better within it's strengths, yes. Also unless you are getting an industrial printer the top end of the market is going to be DIY, and will remain so for the foreseeable future. ETA: I'm slowly acquiring parts for a v0.1 What are their strengths? |
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Posted: 11/20/2021 1:48:28 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What are their strengths? Mostly you don't have your bed moving rapidly in the y axis, only slowly down in the z axis. I guess you would call that less y axis ringing? Because your print bead doesn't have to move laterally the printer can take up a smaller footprint. Finally because the print head doesn't have to move on the z axis it can achieve some pretty impressive speeds and still keep print resolution. |
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Posted: 11/20/2021 1:55:56 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mostly you don't have your bed moving rapidly in the y axis, only slowly down in the z axis. I guess you would call that less y axis ringing? Because your print bead doesn't have to move laterally the printer can take up a smaller footprint. Finally because the print head doesn't have to move on the z axis it can achieve some pretty impressive speeds and still keep print resolution. Not quite: there are printers which are neither Core-XY nor bedslingers. The basic advantage is that a core-xy has less moving mass than other designs, which translates to higher acceleration and speeds, with less ringing. Also any movement the printhead makes uses the torque from both the A & B motors no matter what direction it is moving. |
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Posted: 11/20/2021 5:32:40 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The basic advantage is that a core-xy has less moving mass than other designs, which translates to higher acceleration and speeds, with less ringing. Also any movement the printhead makes uses the torque from both the A & B motors no matter what direction it is moving. Yes, except the ringing. Unless something has changed, Gantry and CoreXY both actually tend to have worse ringing than Cartesian designs. The biggest advantage over cartesion is your not moving the mass of the part you are printing, except in the Z. This means you don't have to worry the leverage that it generates. Essentially, you can print tall skinny things much easier, same as the old gantry printers. Disadvantages. They cost more than a Cartesian. The low mass leads to them more often being bowden hotends. They are suppose to be a pain to troubleshoot if you start having dimensional issues in the xy since both motors control both directions of travel. Also there are more moving components in the corexy than a gantry or Cartesian system so that is more parts to troubleshoot/replace. |
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Posted: 11/20/2021 7:52:26 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, except the ringing. Unless something has changed, Gantry and CoreXY both actually tend to have worse ringing than Cartesian designs. The biggest advantage over cartesion is your not moving the mass of the part you are printing, except in the Z. This means you don't have to worry the leverage that it generates. Essentially, you can print tall skinny things much easier, same as the old gantry printers. Disadvantages. They cost more than a Cartesian. The low mass leads to them more often being bowden hotends. They are suppose to be a pain to troubleshoot if you start having dimensional issues in the xy since both motors control both directions of travel. Also there are more moving components in the corexy than a gantry or Cartesian system so that is more parts to troubleshoot/replace. I think something has changed. I've only gotten into 3d printing in the last few months, and this matches nothing of what I've heard or seen, both on a "what people are doing" as well as the theory of what causes what. |
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Posted: 11/20/2021 9:35:00 PM EDT
[#8]
If you want a budget CoreXY look into converting an Ender 5.
I'll be converting mine over the Christmas holidays. I had some parts get lost in the mail having to reorder some. Eventually I'm going to build a Voron 2.4. https://zerogdesign.github.io/index.html |
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Posted: 11/20/2021 10:07:07 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think something has changed. I've only gotten into 3d printing in the last few months, and this matches nothing of what I've heard or seen, both on a "what people are doing" as well as the theory of what causes what. Yeah, I am an old timer in comparison. Use to be Cartesian would do better for most prints. Tall narrow prints they are much worse. Physics make it exponentially worse the higher you go. Oddly enough coreXY/gantry have the similar issues when useing Z hop. Your applying an acceleration in the z, but some of that vertical motion gets turned in to horizontal motion, and sometimes even causing bad ossilations. It gets worse if it has a "Spring Board" style Z where the bed is only supported on one side. |
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Posted: 11/20/2021 10:39:35 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, I am an old timer in comparison. Use to be Cartesian would do better for most prints. Tall narrow prints they are much worse. Physics make it exponentially worse the higher you go. Oddly enough coreXY/gantry have the similar issues when useing Z hop. Your applying an acceleration in the z, but some of that vertical motion gets turned in to horizontal motion, and sometimes even causing bad ossilations. It gets worse if it has a "Spring Board" style Z where the bed is only supported on one side. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I think something has changed. I've only gotten into 3d printing in the last few months, and this matches nothing of what I've heard or seen, both on a "what people are doing" as well as the theory of what causes what. Yeah, I am an old timer in comparison. Use to be Cartesian would do better for most prints. Tall narrow prints they are much worse. Physics make it exponentially worse the higher you go. Oddly enough coreXY/gantry have the similar issues when useing Z hop. Your applying an acceleration in the z, but some of that vertical motion gets turned in to horizontal motion, and sometimes even causing bad ossilations. It gets worse if it has a "Spring Board" style Z where the bed is only supported on one side. Klipper and input shaper can fix some of that. |
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Posted: 11/20/2021 10:49:04 PM EDT
[#11]
Does corexy have any more benefits on larger printers? Watching a vid on the Prusa XL, Josef Prusa said bigger printers need to be corexy.
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Posted: 11/21/2021 12:22:25 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does corexy have any more benefits on larger printers? Watching a vid on the Prusa XL, Josef Prusa said bigger printers need to be corexy. Yes. It is all about mass. Bigger printer means bigger prints and more mass. Moving that mass vertically on a coreXY causes less issues than moving that mass horizontally on a cartesion. Also, in most cases even with Zhop you have less travel moves in the Zaxis than you do XY movements. |
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Posted: 11/21/2021 1:50:40 PM EDT
[#13]
The only disadvantage core-xy has with increasing size is that belt length becomes excessive and turns into a source of ringing even if you've built the frame to be super stiff.
But if you are building a printer that large (and thus expensive) you should be running klipper with accelerometer tuned input shaping anyway. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 10:19:07 PM EDT
[#14]
In the comment section of a video from Nero3D someone asked about scaling a Voron 2.4 up to 500x500x500. Nero3D replied that it would be too large for corexy due to belt length. That kinda goes against Josef Prusa saying larger printers needing to be corexy. What would be a practical limit in size?
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Posted: 11/26/2021 12:18:38 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In the comment section of a video from Nero3D someone asked about scaling a Voron 2.4 up to 500x500x500. Nero3D replied that it would be too large for corexy due to belt length. That kinda goes against Josef Prusa saying larger printers needing to be corexy. What would be a practical limit in size? 500^3 rat rigs exist and to my knowledge are fine. The reason you can't scale a Voron that large is because they stick with 2020 extrusions, where the rat rig uses 3030s (and also uses wider belts). |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 2:01:55 PM EDT
[#16]
500x500 Ratrigs are great. We don't run it as a speed machine, but the print size allows a great flexibility for some of our print work.
highly recommended. |
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