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That dark side is too expensive for me. I can justify the cost and training of one, but by the time I add in the attorney's cost from the divorce it puts it over the top.
I did seriously look at going the way of a Kiss GEM. However, I ultimately decided not to. Good luck and have fun with it. |
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Always know your ppO2.
Don't get cheap on replacing sensors or absorbent. Dry everything out as soon as you can. Ask your instructor or a mentor before you change anything. |
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That dark side is too expensive for me. I can justify the cost and training of one, but by the time I add in the attorney's cost from the divorce it puts it over the top. I did seriously look at going the way of a Kiss GEM. However, I ultimately decided not to. Good luck and have fun with it. View Quote When I first saw how much a CCR was, my jaw dropped. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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When I first saw how much a CCR was, my jaw dropped. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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That dark side is too expensive for me. I can justify the cost and training of one, but by the time I add in the attorney's cost from the divorce it puts it over the top. I did seriously look at going the way of a Kiss GEM. However, I ultimately decided not to. Good luck and have fun with it. When I first saw how much a CCR was, my jaw dropped. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Now take that price and double it. That's a rough approximation of what you'll spend for training, personalizing the unit, travel, experience dives, and gas to get up to snuff if you really want to maximize what a CCR can do. When I factored all that into the equations it simply wasn't feasible for me to get into. So I decided to spend my money on the next best thing and bought this. It just arrived today and it had been something I've wanted to get into for a while and frankly Go Pro's just weren't cutting it for me anymore. |
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Nice rig. I have been fascinated by rebreathers for decades, but simply can't justify the cost for the rec diving I do. |
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Well living in south Florida, the access to wreck diving is amazing! Once I started pricing out helium cost it was going to be expensive either way. Going this route there is a bigger up front cost but lower cost per dive cost later when you factor significant amounts of helium into the equation. The end goal is to increase bottom time. The most efficient way to accomplish that is to go CCR IMO. I'm really looking forward to the training. I'm looking forward to spending some really good time with the unit. I have been diving a transpac for the last couple years and I was able to literally bolt it up. It gives me a bit of familiarization and I am 99% already adjusted to where I need to be. I just had to remove a set of drings to make room for the counter lungs.
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Well living in south Florida, the access to wreck diving is amazing! Once I started pricing out helium cost it was going to be expensive either way. Going this route there is a bigger up front cost but lower cost per dive cost later when you factor significant amounts of helium into the equation. The end goal is to increase bottom time. The most efficient way to accomplish that is to go CCR IMO. I'm really looking forward to the training. I'm looking forward to spending some really good time with the unit. I have been diving a transpac for the last couple years and I was able to literally bolt it up. It gives me a bit of familiarization and I am 99% already adjusted to where I need to be. I just had to remove a set of drings to make room for the counter lungs. View Quote 10 years ago I would have disagreed with you. However, in the past decade the reliability and durability of CCR rebreathers has improved dramatically. At the same time Helium cost has gone up substantially as well. At this point I'm not sure that doing open circuit on anything above AN/DP makes much sense anymore, and it makes no sense if you're going to run hypoxic mixes. And if you're going to run a lot of Trimix you're long term savings will catch up to you within a few years. For a lot of diving on the technical/cave side of things it's becoming more and more apparent that CCR's are making a lot more sense. Enjoy it, I'm jelly. |
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When I first saw how much a CCR was, my jaw dropped. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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That dark side is too expensive for me. I can justify the cost and training of one, but by the time I add in the attorney's cost from the divorce it puts it over the top. I did seriously look at going the way of a Kiss GEM. However, I ultimately decided not to. Good luck and have fun with it. When I first saw how much a CCR was, my jaw dropped. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Check a doubles Tri-mix fill |
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That dark side is too expensive for me. I can justify the cost and training of one, but by the time I add in the attorney's cost from the divorce it puts it over the top. I did seriously look at going the way of a Kiss GEM. However, I ultimately decided not to. Good luck and have fun with it. When I first saw how much a CCR was, my jaw dropped. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Check a doubles Tri-mix fill Just checked my dive shop's website. Sheesh. Nitrox alone is $4-6 extra for a single, depending on tank size. Somebody recently was asking me when I was going to get into doubles. I just laughed, as a single is enough for me right now. I can't imagine trying to walk with a double on my back. You'd have to wheel me into the water with all my gear on! And climbing into a boat with doubles? |
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I pay $8 per fill on nitrox for 120s. I started doing the math out on trimix fills and they all come out to over $100 per fill. Thats just getting a bit ridiculous. When you are doing a good bit of deep trimix dives the savings from CCR become pretty apparent.
This article is certainly a good read on the cost differences. http://www.addhelium.com/single-post/2013/05/15/Which-is-Cheaper-OC-versus-CCR Its not just the potential or even perceived cost savings. The amount of time you can stay down doesn't compare to OC and the deco time is reduced by a significant margin. This is a photo from our class pool session earlier today. No bubbles! It is a very weird feeling though. The first couple minutes I was sure I had made a very expensive mistake. After about an hour I started to get the hang of it. I have to get used to not exhaling out of my nose. I never realized that I did it before today's pool session. I think it is happening when the loop volume gets a bit too much but its hard to tell at times. More time underwater will give me more of the story I am sure. |
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This is a photo from our class pool session earlier today. No bubbles! It is a very weird feeling though. The first couple minutes I was sure I had made a very expensive mistake. After about an hour I started to get the hang of it. I have to get used to not exhaling out of my nose. I never realized that I did it before today's pool session. I think it is happening when the loop volume gets a bit too much but its hard to tell at times. More time underwater will give me more of the story I am sure. http://i.imgur.com/ci0mBay.jpg?1 View Quote Lack of bubbles must be strange and the lack of noise, too. |
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You are going to love it!!!! I've been diving the Prism 2 for the past couple of years and it's a whole nother world of diving that really must be Experienced! Remember to do your checks and clean your loop! Complacency is what kills on these things!
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Just checked my dive shop's website. Sheesh. Nitrox alone is $4-6 extra for a single, depending on tank size. Somebody recently was asking me when I was going to get into doubles. I just laughed, as a single is enough for me right now. I can't imagine trying to walk with a double on my back. You'd have to wheel me into the water with all my gear on! And climbing into a boat with doubles? View Quote Trimix is where most people switch to CCR if they haven't already done it... unless they just like wasting money. I would like to take advanced nitrox/deco procedures, full cave, and finally trimix classes (in that order), but trimix would be limited for me to places like Eagle's Nest, when I'm ready to go there. I doubt I'll make enough money to make a regular habit of using it... even my nurse/healthcare diver buddies can't afford to do regular trimix dives in doubles LOL |
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Very nice!! What dive op do you use out of pompano? We've been using South Florida Diving Headquarters and had pretty good luck with them.
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Lookin' good. I just traded my Meg off for an SF-2. Dunno when I'm going to get to dive it since I'm OCONUS and can't schedule a crossover until I get back, but I'm excited to add another one to the stable.
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Very nice!! What dive op do you use out of pompano? We've been using South Florida Diving Headquarters and had pretty good luck with them. View Quote They all have their moments where I think they could do better but all in all they do a great job. I really like PDCs tech trips. They have a couple dive masters that really get it and make everything so much easier when it comes to suiting up and getting in and out of the water. |
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I dive with Pompano Dive Center, SFDH, and Miss Conduct Charters mostly. I go out with Enzo on Scuba Tyme every now and then. They all have their moments where I think they could do better but all in all they do a great job. I really like PDCs tech trips. They have a couple dive masters that really get it and make everything so much easier when it comes to suiting up and getting in and out of the water. View Quote |
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That harness is half made from zip ties! It broke as I was literally about to jump in. We had to daisy chain two big zip ties together to make it work. Normally my bottom clip line is a bit shorter. When slung like that they always sit like that on me. The 40s are the same way.
I have looked into the side mounting. It is defiantly more streamlined. |
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I was just busting your chops anyways, but if you don't have bungee loops for the valves, that saved my soul.
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I was just busting your chops anyways, but if you don't have bungee loops for the valves, that saved my soul. View Quote |
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Buttplate and loop bungees. Ring bungees are for jerks and men with erectile dysfunction!!!
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Quoted: View Quote I was very jealous with how streamlined his setup was. Mine doesn't really get in the way with the type of diving I do, but with the current ripping at times it can make deco on the line less fun. You are creating a much broader area for the current to affect. Thanks again for the hugely informative post. So I just ordered the nomad butt plate and bungee ring set. I'll play around with that some later this week. I have the over the shoulder counterlungs so I am having to use offset drings now that are a bit cumbersome. I am curious to see if the ring bungee helps in the gearing up phase. |
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WOW! Thank you for taking the time to post all of that. A gentleman I dived with this weekend showed me the trick about bolt snap and retaining it against the tank valve. He used zip ties but accomplished the same thing. He was diving the Hollis unit and had his with the ring bungee. I was very jealous with how streamlined his setup was. Mine doesn't really get in the way with the type of diving I do, but with the current ripping at times it can make deco on the line less fun. You are creating a much broader area for the current to affect. Thanks again for the hugely informative post. So I just ordered the nomad butt plate and bungee ring set. I'll play around with that some later this week. I have the over the shoulder counterlungs so I am having to use offset drings now that are a bit cumbersome. I am curious to see if the ring bungee helps in the gearing up phase. View Quote Even with Ring Bungees you're still going to have to do a little experimentation (tying knots and adjusting) with getting their correct position. The above pic shows my warm water/travel/light duty side mount rig. The ring is positioned right at my nipple line and towards my back a little bit. Usually it's a little more taught and better positioned than that but I'm in a T-shirt as opposed to a 3-5 mil wet suit which adds a little bulk. I run the bungees a little tighter because I'm primarily using LP-50's with this rig if I'm diving at home which have about a 5 1/2 inch diameter. When I travel I use what everybody else in the world uses, the ubiquitous Al-80 and the bungee allows for stretch with the larger diameter tank. This shows my cave diving/technical rig which is a Nomad XT. Don't pay too much attention to the position of the bungees. I'm usually wearing a dry suit which adds a little bulk which in turn adds some tension to the ring bungees and they don't droop as much. However, like my warm water rig the ring bungees are pretty much positioned at my nipple line and slightly towards my back. Unlike my warm water travel rig I run the bungees a little looser because my primary tanks are cave filled LP-85's and the occasional LP-104/8. I've pretty much got them dialed in with LP-85's and they'll stretch a bit with 8 inch diameter tanks. On you lower clips Butterfly Clips work best as they allow you to clip your tanks right into the rail. This guy gives a pretty good overview of the basics of trimming out your cylinders. I'm assuming that you're running an AL-80 as your bailout cylinder. Keep in mind that should you have to bailout that AL-80 is going to start to float up on you around 2000ish PSI depending on the tank. Personally, I use a simple D-ring on the waistband around my hip area. When the tank gets floaty I just unclip it from the rear rails and clip it onto the front D-ring. In you're case I'd probably run a low profile D-ring as this is bailout gas and not something you're going to have to do a lot of. When you get your buttplate Loc-Tite the rails and what ever else has a screw in it. Mine came a little loose over time, but with a little Loc-Tite the issues was resolved. Hope it helps |
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Thanks for the pictures. That actually helped a lot. I spent a couple hours last night messing around with the bungee length and I can see how it affects everything. I am really anxious to get in the water and see how it all works.
I am a little concerned about the butt plate being a bit long. I do tend to sit on it when in a seated position. Time will tell if I can use the nomad butt plate or if I will need to change over to the smaller tech butt plate. I am either going back to Pompano on Sat or down to Largo to get some more time in this weekend. We shall see what happens! |
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Lose the butt plate, get the butt ring system light monkey sells.
http://www.lightmonkey.us/bailout-attachment-system |
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Lose the butt plate, get the butt ring system light monkey sells. http://www.lightmonkey.us/bailout-attachment-system View Quote |
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This defiantly looks interesting. How does it fair when only carrying one bailout? Without anything rigid there is would seem to pull to the one side, or am I over thinking it? View Quote |
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I haven't used it with one bailout so I can't speak to that. My ccr uses twin sidemounted bailouts scaled from LP50 to LP130 depending on the dive. View Quote |
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Anything deeper than 130' and I have been carrying two bailouts. The majority of my dives right now are in the 110'-130' range as I am accumulating the hours to take the mixed gas course. I guess things like this are how guys end up with mountains of gear. View Quote |
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i already had that. I'd have even more gear, but the only diving here is lakes. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
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i already had that. I'd have even more gear, but the only diving here is lakes. View Quote |
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I got a good deal on a nicely used one towards the end of last year. This spring and summer I'm intending to build my Mobile Dive Command Center, or MDCC for short. See I've got acronyms and everything already. View Quote Most Active Divers Need Excess Scuba Stuff. You can use it for your trailer and whatnot if you wish. |
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A trailer - wow! I stuff all my gear into my Focus sedan. I need a SUV.
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My Tahoe gets a little stuffed with gear for 2. View Quote Both coast are a blowout this weekend. I am going to be heading to Paradise Springs to give this whole sidemounted bailout thing a whirl. |
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In all seriousness though, what are the pros/cons of each? I was able to log another 4.5 hours in Pompano over the weekend. I should have some pictures later this week. View Quote The pros of the independent loop bungees are these: Tanks ride higher and closer to your body, better streamlined. They don't require any extra hardware that gets in the way of reg positioning. They "torque" the tank in to your body. Hard to explain.... They are more versatile when it comes to how you want to rig your tanks, and fit a larger variety of body sizes. They work well with everything from DIR style stage rigging to the DR sidemount straps, skinny women on up. Because they sit higher and closer in, it can be more difficult to read your SPG at a glance unless you're running that goofy curb feeler thing. I've found it's not really an issue though. Reach your arm back and around the valve and pull away from your chest like you would when checking tank marking when doing a gas switch and it's not an issue. What I do recommend though is to run a top clip and mount the cylinder like you would a normal stage at the top, then pull the bungee around the valve. It's more secure and sort of "locks" the tank into your side as it's tensioned both in the front and in the back. You can also rig them in any number of austere environments and have them function. Ring bungees generally only work well with chokers, which limits the flexibility of the tank when required (see above "gas switch" maneuver). I don't buy the whole "it's faster" thing. Maybe the first couple times you dive it, but that's really it. They're both speedy systems. I'd also recommend supplementing your waist d-rings with a set of the rubber sliding d-rings. If you're running a tank that gets a floaty ass end, move from your butt to your waist and shift forward on the belt as necessary. Consider carrying a leash in your pocket as well. Deco'ing in the ocean with multiple tanks gets old. It's nice to be able to throw your deep bailout behind your butt once you're only going to be bailing out to deco gas. Bottom line is that they both work and it's as much a preference as anything. That being said, jerrwhy01 is definitely a fan of Pfizer |
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Quoted: View Quote If I raised my optima on my transpac it might clear it, but then it would be riding higher on my back. I have it screwed to the transpac right now, but there is a way to attach it using the waist strap. That would lower it more than enough to clear the stand adequately. The only issue there is that I think it would be in the way on boats since it would extend so far below stand. I'm sure I'll learn quite a bit about the setup tomorrow when i run it for the first time. You have to start somewhere ya know. |
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So I can see the allure to sidemounting. We ended up at Blue Grotto as Paradise Springs was closed for much needed dock repair.
We found this out after being stuck in traffic for 5 hours to get there and damn near getting stuck in sand trying to turn around. I normally bang my tanks a couple times when diving there but it didn't happen a single time with my bailout sidemounted. I do think I have the bungee a bit too tight. It was difficult to reach back and grab it. I'll experiment next dive with lengthening the bungee a bit. I am sold on the concept though. I was significantly more streamlined. I think the next time I dive will be the 22 and 23. A group of us are heading out to the wreck of the Baja California to go bring back some artifacts. Should be able to do 3 dives Saturday if we start early enough. We are only going to be able to do one Sunday morning before we pull the hook and take the 7 hour ride back. I think 13 of us are going and all but 3 guys will be on CCR. It will be a fun trip for sure. I'm really looking forward to it. |
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So I can see the allure to sidemounting. We ended up at Blue Grotto as Paradise Springs was closed for much needed dock repair. We found this out after being stuck in traffic for 5 hours to get there and damn near getting stuck in sand trying to turn around. I normally bang my tanks a couple times when diving there but it didn't happen a single time with my bailout sidemounted. I do think I have the bungee a bit too tight. It was difficult to reach back and grab it. I'll experiment next dive with lengthening the bungee a bit. I am sold on the concept though. I was significantly more streamlined. I think the next time I dive will be the 22 and 23. A group of us are heading out to the wreck of the Baja California to go bring back some artifacts. Should be able to do 3 dives Saturday if we start early enough. We are only going to be able to do one Sunday morning before we pull the hook and take the 7 hour ride back. I think 13 of us are going and all but 3 guys will be on CCR. It will be a fun trip for sure. I'm really looking forward to it. View Quote As it was I ended up diving Orange stink yesterday and helping a friend of mine with his side mount gear. There's freaking duck weed all over my stuff. |
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Its funny because my wife's Ford Escape is the exact width of two pelican cases for mine and my father-in-law's rebreathers. The distance from the case to the back of the front seats is the exact length of an aluminum 40. Its as if Ford designed it for tech diving. Both coast are a blowout this weekend. I am going to be heading to Paradise Springs to give this whole sidemounted bailout thing a whirl. View Quote EDIT: Damnit, I guess I should've just checked this whole thread or PM'd either one of you or jerrwhy01. lol |
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