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Posted: 8/13/2017 12:20:13 AM EDT
[#1]
They were that size before they were dried out basically. A 2x2x8 isn't really that. More like 1.75x1.75x7.5 or so. Thus you learned that they fuck you on the board size.
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Posted: 8/13/2017 12:23:36 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They were that size before they were dried out basically. A 2x2x8 isn't really that. More like 1.75x1.75x7.5 or so. Thus you learned that they fuck you on the board size. |
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Posted: 8/13/2017 12:24:57 AM EDT
[#3]
You can't really expect pre cut lumber bundles to all be the exact same length ( I would expect them to be >= to the advertised specs though)
If you needed them exactly 6' 0", you should have measured each one before you used them. Since you've already used some of them, you can either cut them all down to 5'11" or figure out how to shim them (or some combination of the two depending on how hard it is to take what you have apart.) |
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Posted: 8/13/2017 5:54:23 AM EDT
[#4]
Most lumber comes just a touch over-length, which is fine because you can trim it yourself to the exact length you need instead of the mill trying to guesstimate shrinkage. I don't recall having any actually come up short of the length dimension, though. You might consider just running a band of 2x6's around the top perimeter and fastening the platform to that instead of directly to the posts; that'd give you some wiggle room at each corner to adjust the band up or down for a completely level plane at exactly the height you want it.
ETA: like this:  Attached File |
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Posted: 8/13/2017 6:35:48 AM EDT
[#5]
This is your solution. It's how I would have done it in the first place.
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Posted: 8/13/2017 7:13:14 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hell no. They are soaking wet - dark green. Does the mean they are going to shrink even more? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
They were that size before they were dried out basically. A 2x2x8 isn't really that. More like 1.75x1.75x7.5 or so. Thus you learned that they fuck you on the board size. |
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Posted: 8/13/2017 7:49:48 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep and it will probably shrink quite a bit |
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Posted: 8/13/2017 8:31:16 AM EDT
[#8]
Usually only wall studs are exact length.
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Posted: 8/13/2017 8:36:36 AM EDT
[#9]
An 8 footer should be 8'1/4" or 8'1/2" etc. They are supposed to have enough to be trimmed to size.
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Posted: 8/13/2017 8:42:45 AM EDT
[#10]
You should definitely call a lawyer OP.
:-/ |
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Posted: 8/13/2017 8:50:38 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hell no. They are soaking wet - dark green. Does the mean they are going to shrink even more? |
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Posted: 8/13/2017 9:09:33 AM EDT
[#12]
In this thread we see a prime example of why you don't buy dimensional lumber from a big box store.
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Posted: 8/13/2017 9:27:12 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In this thread we see a prime example of why you don't buy dimensional lumber from a big box store. |
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Posted: 8/13/2017 9:35:27 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In this thread we see a prime example of why you don't buy dimensional lumber from a big box store. _ |
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Posted: 8/13/2017 9:50:12 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
when the dry out they also warp, wave and split |
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Posted: 8/13/2017 10:26:24 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They were that size before they were dried out basically. A 2x2x8 isn't really that. More like 1.75x1.75x7.5 or so. Thus you learned that they fuck you on the board size. You can still buy rough cut from a saw mill and it will come cut to size. (They may subtract the saw kerf, I don't actually remember.) A buddy of mine had a bunch of hardwood sawn up and he ricked it in his barn. Several years ago, after it was dry, he hired my son (then 16-17) to help him sand it smooth and finish it so he could use it for porch columns and a roof. Poor kid was filthy for weeks. Said buddy bought a planer and jointer after the job was done. Last winter some shyster law firm sued a couple of the big box stores for advertising dimensional lumber without detailing the actual dimensions. It was a bunch of crap, but all the websites make a careful distinction between dimensional and true now. Send a load of 2x4's that actually measure 2" x 4" to a jobsite and you will hear wailing like nobodies business. Length varies a little long because it is hard to cut the length perfectly in the mill. None should be short. If they could cut them perfectly they would - they don't want to give you that extra for free. OP is in a little over his head on this project. If he keeps trying he will learn. |
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Posted: 8/13/2017 12:20:02 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
None should be short. |
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Posted: 8/13/2017 1:14:24 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OP is in a little over his head on this project. If he keeps trying he will learn. |
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Posted: 8/13/2017 1:37:47 PM EDT
[#19]
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Posted: 8/13/2017 1:44:49 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fun fact: I can mess up, trash and redo this project ten times and still come in 10k under what the "professionals" wanted to do it. So, it's worth my time to learn. I do plenty of things where I would probably be better off hiring a professional - I'd rather mess up a few times and do it myself. 
Just trying to be helpful... |
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Posted: 8/13/2017 2:01:49 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep and it will probably shrink quite a bit Longitudinal shrinkage is 0.1% to 0.2%. Tangential and radial shrinkage are the much larger numbers. See Chapter 4 of the Wood Handbook from USDA. |
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Posted: 8/13/2017 2:02:15 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They were that size before they were dried out basically. A 2x2x8 isn't really that. More like 1.75x1.75x7.5 or so. Thus you learned that they fuck you on the board size. Once it is dried and they smooth the surfaces, all dimensioned lumber will be 1/2" smaller than the rough sawn size (2X2 = 1.5 X 1.5, 2X4 = 1.5X3.5,...). |
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Posted: 8/13/2017 2:12:57 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They were that size before they were dried out basically. A 2x2x8 isn't really that. More like 1.75x1.75x7.5 or so. Thus you learned that they fuck you on the board size. And that is saturated to oven dry. That is the ONE dimension of wood that does not change much at all. |
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Posted: 8/13/2017 2:33:35 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Usually only wall studs are exact length. |
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Posted: 8/13/2017 8:51:36 PM EDT
[#25]
Anyone selling wood that is shorter than the length is ripping you off.
A call to your state's weights and standards board should get things moving along. A visit by the state inspector and then a complaint of short measures usually puts the real fear of god into store managers. Lowe's has been cited for undersized boards. 2x4 that did not meet 1-1/2 x 3-1/2. State weight and measurement boards exist to make sure this does not happen. While a 2x12 might move in width slightly as it drys out further it is NOT going to be even 1/4 of an inch. Even 1/8 would be a lot for kiln dried wood to move during shipping and storage. Just make sure you understand that boards over 6 inches wide are less 3/4 instead of 1/2. |
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Posted: 8/14/2017 7:53:22 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
I purchased 50 4" x 4" x 6' boards from Lowes. They are the uprights to a large platform that I am building. I am halfway through construction and I realized that they are not actually 6' long. They are all different lengths and range from half an inch to an entire inch too short. If these were getting buried I wouldn't care but these are standing on a flat concrete floor and the difference in heights is a huge problem. I understand that lumber sizing is deceptive but the website lists the "actual" dimensions as 3.5" x 3.5" x 6'. Are they in the wrong here or am I? ETA: My 12' boards are all actually a half inch too long. So, I have to trim every single 12' board to length now as well. If you didn't know a 4x4 is finished to 3.5x3.5, you shouldn't be buying limber and building shit, because you wont build it correctly and potentially get yourself hurt when it fails. Stop what you are doing and hire a professional that knows what they are doing. |
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Posted: 8/14/2017 7:57:32 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They were that size before they were dried out basically. A 2x2x8 isn't really that. More like 1.75x1.75x7.5 or so. Thus you learned that they fuck you on the board size. |
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Posted: 8/14/2017 7:58:46 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You should definitely call a lawyer OP. :-/ |
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Posted: 8/14/2017 8:00:04 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In this thread we see a prime example of why you don't buy dimensional lumber from a big box store. |
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Posted: 8/14/2017 8:02:29 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Anyone selling wood that is shorter than the length is ripping you off. A call to your state's weights and standards board should get things moving along. A visit by the state inspector and then a complaint of short measures usually puts the real fear of god into store managers. Lowe's has been cited for undersized boards. 2x4 that did not meet 1-1/2 x 3-1/2. State weight and measurement boards exist to make sure this does not happen. While a 2x12 might move in width slightly as it drys out further it is NOT going to be even 1/4 of an inch. Even 1/8 would be a lot for kiln dried wood to move during shipping and storage. Just make sure you understand that boards over 6 inches wide are less 3/4 instead of 1/2. |
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Posted: 8/14/2017 8:45:17 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fun fact: I can mess up, trash and redo this project ten times and still come in 10k under what the "professionals" wanted to do it. So, it's worth my time to learn. I'm just saying a 6ft high deck with posts sitting on concrete wouldn't normally be a first time DIY build project if you don't even know how lumber is sized and sold. I've been a DIY'er for 30 years, starting by helping my dad on build projects as a kid. As an adult I've helped him build decks, a garage, a 12x18 workshop, he's helped my build various things. There are always considerations you may not be aware of, that may bite you and get someone hurt. |
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Posted: 8/14/2017 9:18:30 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lowe's has been cited for undersized boards. 2x4 that did not meet 1-1/2 x 3-1/2. People that had no clue how an industry works were butt hurt that a 2x4 isn't 2"x4". |
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Posted: 8/14/2017 9:19:37 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No he should have called a contractor. He doesn't know what the hell he's doing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You should definitely call a lawyer OP. :-/ ... which is why I didn't say it :-) |
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Posted: 8/14/2017 9:31:03 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That was not the problem at Lowe's: the stated "problem" was that the 2x4's were not 2 inches by four inches; the actual problem is that no one takes wood shop in grammar school, so idiot DIY'ers got pissy that their 2x4's were 1.5x3.5's and idiot employees were not able to articulate the difference between rough sawn and dimensional lumber. People that had no clue how an industry works were butt hurt that a 2x4 isn't 2"x4". |
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Posted: 8/14/2017 1:55:17 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That was not the problem at Lowe's: the stated "problem" was that the 2x4's were not 2 inches by four inches; the actual problem is that no one takes wood shop in grammar school, so idiot DIY'ers got pissy that their 2x4's were 1.5x3.5's and idiot employees were not able to articulate the difference between rough sawn and dimensional lumber. People that had no clue how an industry works were butt hurt that a 2x4 isn't 2"x4". Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Lowe's has been cited for undersized boards. 2x4 that did not meet 1-1/2 x 3-1/2. People that had no clue how an industry works were butt hurt that a 2x4 isn't 2"x4". they had cut them even smaller. By about 1/8 inch so 3-3/8 x 1-3/8. |
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Posted: 8/14/2017 1:55:58 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He didn't say they sold him boards too short. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Anyone selling wood that is shorter than the length is ripping you off. A call to your state's weights and standards board should get things moving along. A visit by the state inspector and then a complaint of short measures usually puts the real fear of god into store managers. Lowe's has been cited for undersized boards. 2x4 that did not meet 1-1/2 x 3-1/2. State weight and measurement boards exist to make sure this does not happen. While a 2x12 might move in width slightly as it drys out further it is NOT going to be even 1/4 of an inch. Even 1/8 would be a lot for kiln dried wood to move during shipping and storage. Just make sure you understand that boards over 6 inches wide are less 3/4 instead of 1/2. Sure sounds like to short. |
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Posted: 8/14/2017 1:59:29 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No. they had cut them even smaller. By about 1/8 inch so 3-3/8 x 1-3/8. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Lowe's has been cited for undersized boards. 2x4 that did not meet 1-1/2 x 3-1/2. People that had no clue how an industry works were butt hurt that a 2x4 isn't 2"x4". they had cut them even smaller. By about 1/8 inch so 3-3/8 x 1-3/8. |
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Posted: 8/14/2017 2:04:39 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They were that size before they were dried out basically. A 2x2x8 isn't really that. More like 1.75x1.75x7.5 or so. Thus you learned that they fuck you on the board size. OP, have you called Lowes and give them a chance to make it correct? |
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Posted: 8/14/2017 2:25:00 PM EDT
[#39]
It's been stated, correctly, several times.
OP bought 6' long 4x4s. They vary in length and most are short. They should be at least 6' long, and normally they are going to be anywhere from 1/4" to 3/4" longer than required. That is standard practice. Lowes owes OP 6' posts. They should have done an exchange and given him 8' posts rather than a deal on a saw. Selling short boards is ripping people off. |
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Posted: 8/14/2017 2:52:43 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's been stated, correctly, several times. OP bought 6' long 4x4s. They vary in length and most are short. They should be at least 6' long, and normally they are going to be anywhere from 1/4" to 3/4" longer than required. That is standard practice. Lowes owes OP 6' posts. They should have done an exchange and given him 8' posts rather than a deal on a saw. Selling short boards is ripping people off. I think the concession he got was reasonable under the circumstances. |
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Posted: 8/14/2017 2:57:17 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OP: "that they are not actually 6' long." Sure sounds like to short. I zeroed in on the 12ft boards being too long at the end of his post. |
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Posted: 8/14/2017 3:00:00 PM EDT
[#42]
I'm still curious what the actual design is. He said raised platform over concrete, which to me sounds like a deck. Bolting a band to the top that is level, or notching the tops of the posts eliminates any absokute requirement to have the lengths all be exactly the same.
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Posted: 8/14/2017 5:25:37 PM EDT
[#43]
I would like to know how he picked up 6' long 4x4s as that is not a standard length.
If he requested that they were 6' long, then some dipshit at the store cut them short while trying to fill the order. |
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Posted: 8/14/2017 6:29:39 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would like to know how he picked up 6' long 4x4s as that is not a standard length. If he requested that they were 6' long, then some dipshit at the store cut them short while trying to fill the order. |
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Posted: 8/14/2017 7:14:49 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would like to know how he picked up 6' long 4x4s as that is not a standard length. If he requested that they were 6' long, then some dipshit at the store cut them short while trying to fill the order. |
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Posted: 8/14/2017 7:36:58 PM EDT
[#46]
So here's an aside to this whole, lowes selling dimensionally wrong lumber. Lowe's doesn't cut the wood, they get it from a supplier. Is Lowes or any other retailer expected to verify length on all the lumber they receive, or does the responsibility fall back to the supplier they were using?
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Posted: 8/15/2017 2:58:57 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So here's an aside to this whole, lowes selling dimensionally wrong lumber. Lowe's doesn't cut the wood, they get it from a supplier. Is Lowes or any other retailer expected to verify length on all the lumber they receive, or does the responsibility fall back to the supplier they were using? |
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Posted: 8/15/2017 3:08:11 AM EDT
[#48]
Just to clear up some misunderstandings and answer some questions:
1) I know that 4" x 4"s are 3.5" x 3.5". The issue was that all 50 boards were under 6' in length. Way under. 2) Lowes loaded their entire inventory of them into my trailer by forklift. I did not measure them. In 30 years of building things I have never received a board that was too short. They were straight and looked perfect, so I didn't question it. 3) The platform was engineered by a professional and is an easy bolt together project. I am just following the drawings. 4) I have lots of saws but none of them do a good job with 4x4s. The one they gave me works great. I am happy that they owned up to it and did something for me. 5) I've lived in houses down here where the toilets flush with hot water and the sheet rock is as wavy as the ocean. Hiring a "professional" in Florida is not the same as hiring one up north. |
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Posted: 8/15/2017 7:00:12 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just to clear up some misunderstandings and answer some questions: 1) I know that 4" x 4"s are 3.5" x 3.5". The issue was that all 50 boards were under 6' in length. Way under. 2) Lowes loaded their entire inventory of them into my trailer by forklift. I did not measure them. In 30 years of building things I have never received a board that was too short. They were straight and looked perfect, so I didn't question it. 3) The platform was engineered by a professional and is an easy bolt together project. I am just following the drawings. 4) I have lots of saws but none of them do a good job with 4x4s. The one they gave me works great. I am happy that they owned up to it and did something for me. 5) I've lived in houses down here where the toilets flush with hot water and the sheet rock is as wavy as the ocean. Hiring a "professional" in Florida is not the same as hiring one up north. |
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Posted: 8/15/2017 7:06:00 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
here Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I would like to know how he picked up 6' long 4x4s as that is not a standard length. If he requested that they were 6' long, then some dipshit at the store cut them short while trying to fill the order.
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