This will probably be more for the Protestants but certainly dont want to exclude the Catholics


What are your thoughts about Baptising? Do you feel that as a disciple of Christ that you are allowed to Baptize new converts? Family members?

Please keep it civil. If you feel another is in error and feel led to rebuke or admonish, please do so respectfully. I am really just wanting insight on others views on this.

I have baptized my own God child because their parents would not.

If I ever get the chance I will introduce her to the church, again because her parents will not.

If they don't like it then they never should have asked me to be a God parent.

Sgat1r5

Quoted: I have baptized my own God child because their parents would not. If I ever get the chance I will introduce her to the church, again because her parents will not. If they don't like it then they never should have asked me to be a God parent. Sgat1r5

Awesome. The reason I thought it would be a mainly protestant thread is becuase I was not sure if it was allowed by the RCC. I ignorantly thought it was forbidden. I am glad you posted. Thanks.

quite frankly I am not sure either.

But lay people do many things in the RCC, like serve communion and give various rites.


Either way, the child comes first.

Sgat1r5

Quoted: I have baptized my own God child because their parents would not. If I ever get the chance I will introduce her to the church, again because her parents will not. If they don't like it then they never should have asked me to be a God parent. Sgat1r5

Did YOU Baptize or did you take the child to a Priest to be Baptized.

And how did you get to be a Godparent? I thought the RCC did it the same way
as Protestants, that at the Christening you became the Godparent.

In the Anglican community, it takes an ordained priest.  Since Anglicans (and most Protestants)
don't believe in Original Sin, we dont' take it as an emergency thing,
where a Roman Catholic would.

I believe that babtisim is fundamental to the path of salvation.  

ETA: Not sprinkling, but full emersion, just as Jesus did.  It is only my opinion that the preacher or an elder of the church should do the babtising.

Quoted: Did YOU Baptize or did you take the child to a Priest to be Baptized. And how did you get to be a Godparent? I thought the RCC did it the same way as Protestants, that at the Christening you became the Godparent. In the Anglican community, it takes an ordained priest.  Since Anglicans (and most Protestants) don't believe in Original Sin, we dont' take it as an emergency thing, where a Roman Catholic would.

Usually you become the Godparent at the baptism, offically anyways.

But they asked before hand and then didn't follow thru with the baptism.

So I mearly made the sign of the Cross on the child's forehead with Holy water and said " I Baptize you in the name of Jesus Christ our Lord.

Took less than 3 seconds.

Sgat1r5

Quoted: Quoted: Did YOU Baptize or did you take the child to a Priest to be Baptized. And how did you get to be a Godparent? I thought the RCC did it the same way as Protestants, that at the Christening you became the Godparent. In the Anglican community, it takes an ordained priest.  Since Anglicans (and most Protestants) don't believe in Original Sin, we dont' take it as an emergency thing, where a Roman Catholic would. Usually you become the Godparent at the baptism, offically anyways. But they asked before hand and then didn't follow thru with the baptism. So I mearly made the sign of the Cross on the child's forehead with Holy water and said " I Baptize you in the name of Jesus Christ our Lord. Took less than 3 seconds. Sgat1r5

Well I guess that works.  I think I read in some of my Churchs doctrine that Holy Water could
be blessed by anyone, it didn't take an ordained priest, but we do require ordination for
Baptizing, but like I said it's not an "emergency" thing for Anglicans.

I always keep a bottle of Holy Water nearby in case of the zombie attacks.  Wait, I thought
I was over in GD again.......

Well TexasSig, like I said, I do not know the "official" church position.  But I can not see how blessing a child or a dying person can ever be a bad thing.

If my church tells me I am wrong I will demand proof and argue right back with them.

As you know, I tend to speak my mind.

Sgat1r5

Quoted: Well TexasSig, like I said, I do not know the "official" church position.  But I can not see how blessing a child or a dying person can ever be a bad thing. If my church tells me I am wrong I will demand proof and argue right back with them. As you know, I tend to speak my mind. Sgat1r5

I think you'd be on solid ground if you ever had to justify it to the One that really matters.

Quoted: Do you feel that as a disciple of Christ that you are allowed to Baptize new converts? Family members?

Yup.

I personally don't like infant baptism, sprinkling, or pouring, but I don't go so far to say that it doesn't count.  I do know, however, that, regardless of belief, the immersion of a consenting person meets the bill, and that's my preference.

Quoted: This will probably be more for the Protestants but certainly dont want to exclude the Catholics What are your thoughts about Baptising? Do you feel that as a disciple of Christ that you are allowed to Baptize new converts? Family members?

Not really, no.

It is one thing if there isn't a minister available. But if there is, then it should be done by the minister. Baptism is meant to be a public event seen by the members of the church and in concert with the body of Christ.

Quoted: Quoted: I have baptized my own God child because their parents would not. If I ever get the chance I will introduce her to the church, again because her parents will not. If they don't like it then they never should have asked me to be a God parent. Sgat1r5 Awesome. The reason I thought it would be a mainly protestant thread is becuase I was not sure if it was allowed by the RCC. I ignorantly thought it was forbidden. I am glad you posted. Thanks.

IIRC (Sarge, can you confirm?), if there is no member of the clergy available any lay person can perform any rites as needed.  It also works in the other direction, if you confess (or have any rite performed) by a false priest, then God condones the actions.   I recall reading it somewhere, but I can't for the life of me recall where now.



I think Sarge's action would be "kosher" since the parents are keeping the girl from having the rights performed.

Quoted: Quoted: Well TexasSig, like I said, I do not know the "official" church position.  But I can not see how blessing a child or a dying person can ever be a bad thing. If my church tells me I am wrong I will demand proof and argue right back with them. As you know, I tend to speak my mind. Sgat1r5 I think you'd be on solid ground if you ever had to justify it to the One that really matters.

agreed, if the intention is pure then its hard to argue the actions are impure

If you are a baptized member of the Body of Christ, read as fully immersed or buried into the likeness of Christs death, you can feel free to baptize any who have :

Confessed Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that he died for your sins

Have repented of their sins and now seek to be added to the body of Christ


Simple. (Unless you are TxSig of course, but he's speshul, seeing as his creed trumps Christs word at ALL TIMES)

Neat trick.

Anyhow, this question is, to me, primarily concerned with do you need a special something to baptize those who desire it.

The answer is NO.

You do not need a piece of paper or parchment or secret decoder ring or a neat wand or a clay tablet or even ancient mayan pictograms written on the flayed skin of virgins.

Why?

Because Christ was made a priest after the order of Melchisedec, and is what? Lets listen to the scriptures speak (unless you are TxSig, then they dont apply as he is apostolic):

Heb:5:8: Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Heb:5:9: And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Heb:5:10: Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

Heb:5:5: So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.
Heb:5:6: As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Christ is the final and ONLY High priest, who intercedes for us eternally with the Lord. Christ says WHAT about coming unto the Father? Lets listen (Tex is exempt, as I dont have a robe or secret decoder ring from an apostolic diploma mill he likes)

Joh:14:6: Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Yep, cannot get at the Father save through the Son alone, spoken by the Lord Himself.
( Unless you are Tex of course )

So, in the final analysis:

Christ is the only priest we have need of, continually offering intermediation between us as sinners and God the Creator. God made him High priest FOREVER.

You as a Christian, if you are one, can baptize any and feel no shame as it is a good work to which all are called. Hence the final commission of Christ Jesus:

M'r:16:15: And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
M'r:16:16: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.


You dont need labels (Unless you are ol' Tex) You dont need a degree (Unless you are Tex)You dont need a building either (Unless you are Tex)

You say you dont need a building? Youre kidding right? Nope, listen to Christ:

M't:18:20: For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

This is absolute Truth (Unless of course you are ol' Tex of course, somebody go fetch that boy a robe and maybe a spare scapular and flask of holy water, gotta make him feel at home)

So, there it is folks. If you are a Christian... feel free to baptize all and sundry who ask to be, it is your solemn task as given by Christ Jesus Himself.

You need the Word.

And a body of water big enough to immerse somebody.

Case closed.

Unless of course you are TexSig, but as I have pointed out ad nauseum...he are speshul  Right boy?

Dram out

Quoted: More mind numbing ranting....

Apparantly I've stuck a nerve with the man that thinks he's an axe in a Tolkein novel.

As I have said, 80 to 85% of the worlds praticing Christians believe the same as I do,
and I feel OK with that.

Just standing on the street corner holding a Bible and a coin cup does not make a Church.

For those still reading these things, I offer this wild eyed crazy doctrine of Faith,
the one our axe wielder here believes is so awful.    I am at a loss to find fault with
anything it says.  This is what we believe, these millions and millions of us, Catholics
and Protestants alike.  I'm sure they will be sad to hear that the Axe man knows better
than close to 2000 years of theological thinking.

I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible; And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, begotten of his Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father; by whom all things were made; who for us men and for our salvation   came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Ghost   of the Virgin Mary,   and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; he suffered and was buried; and the third day he rose again   according to the Scriptures, and ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father; and he shall come again, with glory,   to judge both the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end. And I believe in the Holy Ghost the Lord, and Giver of Live, who proceedeth from the Father [and the Son]; who with the Father and the Son together   is worshipped and glorified; who spake by the Prophets. And I believe one holy Catholic and Apostolic Church; I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; and I look for the resurrection of the dead,    and the life of the world to come. AMEN.

Dont quote any scripture Tex, people might actually then believe you have cracked a bible once in your life.

Whereas I cant see how you could possibly have.

Dram shrugs and walks off shaking his head.

Quoted: Dont quote any scripture Tex, people might actually then believe you have cracked a bible once in your life. Whereas I cant see how you could possibly have. Dram shrugs and walks off shaking his head.

And again, you cannot refute a word of what I posted, because you either have to admit
that you believe everything in there as well, or you are not a Christian.

Tell me anything in that statement of Faith that is not supported by the Scriptures,
or anything in there you find to be untrue.  I can give you the Biblical support
for every word of it, it was put together over hundreds of years and is well thought
out and researched.  The fact that whatever church it is that YOU attend cannot
succinctly place into words exactly what they believe should trouble you greatly.

Matt 28 : 18    Then Jesus approached and said to them, "All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go, therefore,  and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit,teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age."

THEM is the 12 Apostles that you seem to have such a hard time with, that you say don't really
mean anything.   They don't count at all do they.

Your statement of faith is fine except on 2 points or so.

capitalizing "virgin Mary"

yeah, it was a virgin birth, and she was chosen by God to bear her son... but other than that the scriptures are DEAD SILENT on Mary. Unless you happen to be a devotee of the cult of marianism.

I have not read what you believe baptism to be about, so I cannot comment on the baptism portion of your statement of faith. If you are speaking of scriptural full immersion baptism as an adult then we are on the same page. If not, then we are worlds distant.


Finally the hilarious misapplication of the final commission given to the apostles and by extension to ALL CHRISTIANS. We, not just THEM, are to go out into the world. If you are so hung on apostles that you try to use the great commission as your proof... then again we are ultimate worlds apart.

The statement DOES NOT SAY : "just you apostles by yourselves and only you guys" the statement by Christ means this is my final instructions to you ALL ... go out and do THIS, that is your focus and goal.

And yet, you manage to build a whole religious philosophy and authority structure off of an unlearned reading of the great commission. Amazing  

I simply have never heard the background on your amazing "apostolic" view and the threadbare interpretation upon which it hangs.

Amazing


So, yes, quite a bit of your statement of faith is just fine and dandy by me. You just fall off of the cliff there at the end with that last bit about.

And where you start to babble is saying I have not elucidated clearly what the Church of Christ believes. I wear glasses, apparently you need them more than I if you have not read anything I have written and footnoted with scripture.

It sounds as though you find it too simple to grasp.

Reread my posts and it is glaringly obvious, both in this thread and the others I have posted in.

Basic. Unadorned. Ungoverned by man. Guided by the Word alone. True first century Christianity.

But you dont like what Christ started in its simplest form. You have made that ultimately and abundantly clear. Which is fine for you and those of your hue and stripe... but not for those of us who wish to worship as close to what Christ intended as possible... no additions and no subtractions... just plain Christianity.

Female priests... homos also...

yep big gulf between you and I friend... BIG

Dram out

Quoted: Dont quote any scripture Tex, people might actually then believe you have cracked a bible once in your life. Whereas I cant see how you could possibly have. Dram shrugs and walks off shaking his head.

I will quote some scripture.

The Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to
everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Those who oppose him he must
gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance
leading them to a knowledge of the truth, and that they will come to
their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them
captive to do his will (2Tim. 2:24-26).

Correcting others is fine, and commanded, but to make into a prideful ambition, complete with insults and arrogance and open contempt is quite another thing.

Quoted: Quoted: Dont quote any scripture Tex, people might actually then believe you have cracked a bible once in your life. Whereas I cant see how you could possibly have. Dram shrugs and walks off shaking his head.

I will quote some scripture.

The Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to
everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Those who oppose him he must
gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance
leading them to a knowledge of the truth, and that they will come to
their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them
captive to do his will (2Tim. 2:24-26).

Correcting others is fine, and commanded, but to make into a prideful ambition, complete with insults and arrogance and open contempt is quite another thing. If you want to express your view then do so but there is no need to do it in the manner you have. Say your peace and move on and please dont hijack my thread. Start another one, some may participate, and some may not. Depends on how folks see you handling yourself. For me I wont be participating from your actions here speak loud enough. No big loss to you I am sure. I just dont appreciate my thread being hijacked for a personal vendetta. I may agree with you on some doctrinal issues, I may disagree with you on some.

If you feel the need to battle with the other poster, please start your own thread. I just wanted some opinions and viewpoints as to what other believe in this. I certainly appreciate a biblical and scriptural support for anyones view. I would love to see some edification or some brotherly admonishing in disagreement. I didnt start this thread to see backbiting and strife which for some people seems to be a preoccupation. Not just you, but others as well, and I am sure at times myself.

We all need to remember our bearings and that had it not been ENTIRELY for God, we would be bound for Hell.

Quoted: Quoted: Correcting others is fine, and commanded, but to make into a prideful ambition, complete with insults and arrogance and open contempt is quite another thing. I think that about sums it up.

Wild Boar, sorry for the hijack, I was attacked and felt I had to defend my position.

There is no need for another thread, he got his feelings hurt because I argued against the
Church of Christ in another thread and he's been doing this in every thread I post in since.  I won't
be replying to any more of his stuff.

If someone decides to ignore anything said in order to HIDE behind a supposed stamp of approval, then all I have done in MY posts is point that out.

Nothing I say applies to Tex.

Nothing the Word says applies to Tex.

Must have his imprimatur stamped on it for him to recognize it.

WHATEVER.

Just making light of his particular bent.

Dram out.


2Tm:4:3: For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;



M't:10:14: And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
M'r:6:11: And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.


Dram knocks his shoes together for "somebody"

Quoted: If someone decides to ignore anything said in order to HIDE behind a supposed stamp of approval, then all I have done in MY posts is point that out. Nothing I say applies to Tex. Nothing the Word says applies to Tex. Must have his imprimatur stamped on it for him to recognize it. WHATEVER. Just making light of his particular bent. Dram out. 2Tm:4:3: For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; M't:10:14: And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. M'r:6:11: And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city. Dram knocks his shoes together for "somebody"

Dram , I actually appreciate you insight into this topic, I probably agree with you on a good bit of it. But it seemed you were dragging a personal vendette against Tex from somewhere else.

I have no problem with folks correcting each other with scripture, I just find it to be self serving when we make it too personal and start with insults. Its something I am sure we all have been or could be guilty of and if I am doing it, I pray I get rebuked. We can get to the point where we are serving our own egos instead of Christ.

There comes to a point where we must shake the dust off our feet and its hard to finally do that at timtes, but we are commanded to do that as well. I have had a hard time doing that because my heart desired to keep the argument going, yet all along Christ commanded us to rebuke, correct, and admonish to a point, then to move on. Moving on can be hard sometimes.

Anyway thanks for the insight you did offer in the thread, you did offer some. Sorry I got upset at the small battle with the other you had. .

Hi Wild Boar

Nah, no probs here with you. The problem wasnt dragging anything along with me about ol' Tex, it was him not replying at ALL with scripture to back him up about the subject at hand. He would just bring up you are not.. ahem.. "apostolic" and therefore without merit.

Which is not preserving the decency of debate.

At all.

So, just to let everyone know, abrasively yes, that nothing I said would apply to Tex, I just put in all my disclaimers. For those who KNOW scripture on this board, I have had interesting and varied debates with plenty of folk. All good and fruity stuff, full of interesting viewpoints and exchange.

Except Tex.

Nothing an unwashed heathen, like myself ,says would be fit for his consumption unless I was "approved" by his temporal masters.

So, the shoes are undusted for him. But, I cannot stand by and will not... and let any un-truths go idly by that he sees fit to commit to print. Swift rebuke as in the scriptures will meeted out.

So, lets carry on and get going with some more interesting discussions. Even though, you know, I am not qualified.. I will still place my oar in the water


Dram out !

Someone needs smiting

Sgatr15

Quoted: If you are a baptized member of the Body of Christ, read as fully immersed or buried into the likeness of Christs death, you can feel free to baptize any who have : Confessed Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that he died for your sins Have repented of their sins and now seek to be added to the body of Christ Simple. (Unless you are TxSig of course, but he's speshul, seeing as his creed trumps Christs word at ALL TIMES) Neat trick. Anyhow, this question is, to me, primarily concerned with do you need a special something to baptize those who desire it. The answer is NO. You do not need a piece of paper or parchment or secret decoder ring or a neat wand or a clay tablet or even ancient mayan pictograms written on the flayed skin of virgins. Why? Because Christ was made a priest after the order of Melchisedec, and is what? Lets listen to the scriptures speak (unless you are TxSig, then they dont apply as he is apostolic): Heb:5:8: Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; Heb:5:9: And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; Heb:5:10: Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec. Heb:5:5: So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. Heb:5:6: As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. Christ is the final and ONLY High priest, who intercedes for us eternally with the Lord. Christ says WHAT about coming unto the Father? Lets listen (Tex is exempt, as I dont have a robe or secret decoder ring from an apostolic diploma mill he likes) Joh:14:6: Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Yep, cannot get at the Father save through the Son alone, spoken by the Lord Himself. ( Unless you are Tex of course ) So, in the final analysis: Christ is the only priest we have need of, continually offering intermediation between us as sinners and God the Creator. God made him High priest FOREVER. You as a Christian, if you are one, can baptize any and feel no shame as it is a good work to which all are called. Hence the final commission of Christ Jesus: M'r:16:15: And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. M'r:16:16: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. You dont need labels (Unless you are ol' Tex) You dont need a degree (Unless you are Tex)You dont need a building either (Unless you are Tex) You say you dont need a building? Youre kidding right? Nope, listen to Christ: M't:18:20: For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. This is absolute Truth (Unless of course you are ol' Tex of course, somebody go fetch that boy a robe and maybe a spare scapular and flask of holy water, gotta make him feel at home) So, there it is folks. If you are a Christian... feel free to baptize all and sundry who ask to be, it is your solemn task as given by Christ Jesus Himself. You need the Word. And a body of water big enough to immerse somebody. Case closed. Unless of course you are TexSig, but as I have pointed out ad nauseum...he are speshul  Right boy? Dram out

Take out the sarcasm, and I (for once) agree completely with Dram.

I'd be happy to baptise anyone, and happy to witness someone being baptised by anyone who had admitted their sin, believed upon the Lord Jesus, confessed His Name, and been baptised themselves.

The sarcasm is indeed wearying, is it not?

Try having to type it all out.

Just trying to make a point that was screaming to be made to someone.

But enough of that.

Point has been made and driven home with a post oak maul.

On to the good discussion!

Yup...LOTS of smiting.

Whatever sarge... whatever

Dram

Quoted: Whatever sarge... whatever Dram

You sound intelligent, but I can't get past your arrogance.

Which pretty much nullifies anything you have to say.

Sgat1r5

Guys please. Lets move on.

Sarge,

Its not arrogance.

Its exasperation.

Its funny how I have yet to hear you dismiss utterly someones opinion because there was no Bishops Imprimatur on their discussion. While YOU are the Catholic and he is NOT.

Yet someone else does.

It is irksome to be dismissed without a shred of CREDIBLE evidence or testimony to the contrary.

So that was given right back to the author of those remarks.

Its hard to have a meaningful discussion when you get the Dr Evil  "zippit" speech from Austin Powers movies.

Arrogant? No. Abrasive.. absolutely on purpose. And yes, it is annoying.

Dram

Quoted: Arrogant? No. Abrasive.. absolutely on purpose. And yes, it is annoying. Dram

It certainly is....................


Sgatr15