User Panel
Posted: 8/2/2005 7:51:55 PM EDT
I'm frightened of the hyper-religious. It's not just the obvious "Holy Warrior" baloney, I am made nervous by people who throw all their faith in The Creator.
Where's their free-will? Where's their creativity and originality? I should add this: I'm a Christian, but believe that I have enough free-will to control many things around me. |
|
|
|
so you have more faith in yourself than you do in the one who created you? |
|
|
+1 Love to answer, the question, but this ain't the place. I'll just ask this - PLease cite Scripture verses that back up your position, and we can discuss Otherwise this will just be YET ANOTHER case of pooled ignorance |
|
|
God only helps those that help themselves. I’m fairly agnostic btw. |
|
|
I'm guessing you've NEVER experienced a REAL trial of your faith. I have twice, and found my own faith WHOLLY inadequate, and in reality quite puny. And that I don't really control jack scratch. |
|
|
Yep, that's what I said. Oh, wait, no it's not - you just put those words in my mouth. |
||
|
Then you'd be guessing wrong. Us Christians are a judgemental lot, aren't we? My concern is with people who give up their sense of personal responsibility, the authority that The Creator allows us to assume, so that we can put off on him the problems we get ourselves into. |
|
|
Faith in God does not mean you lose your free will. The goal is to allign your will with God's will.
ANd everything comes from God and I wish I had enough belief to trust Him in everything but I do not. SGat1r5 |
|
That's not faith, that's mis-interpititation of teh message. Two totally differant things. Sgat1r5 |
|
|
samsong, please make sure you read this link www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=135&t=372814 before responding again.
|
|
What better object for one's faith?
It is our expression and creativity that reflects us being made in the image of the ultimate Creator. Free will gives you a choice of two directions: 1) Submitting to God's will and guidance. Believe me, this does NOT mean you have to give up your individuality! He created you to be an individual and wants to help you be the best you you can be. 2) Rebelling against God, and the consequences that accompany such a decision.
Again, faith needs an object it is directed toward. It doesn't exist apart from having faith in someone/something. Where better to place your faith as a Christian? |
|||
|
Stupid vicious little cycle. |
||
|
I'm frightened of the hyper-religious. It's not just the obvious "Holy Warrior" baloney, I am made nervous by people who throw all their faith in The Creator.
Where's their free-will? Where's their creativity and originality? I should add this: I'm a Christian, but believe that I have enough free-will to control many things around me. ------------------------------ Continue your faith with G-d, and your faith in mankind. Jewish Ed |
|
What you are describing here would NOT be described as faith by any orthodox beleiver I know. ALL the beleivers I know DEMAND a high degree of personal responsibility with faith. I will agree that God gets "blamed" by PROFESSING Chrsitians (key concept : PROFESSING) for lots of stuff He has no part in, but that is NOT a matter of too much faith. Its a matter of wanting to avoid blame. In my experience, when people try to avoid personal responsibility on a continuous, large scale basis, I immediately begin to question the validity of their salvation experience, as ANY reading of Scripture makes admitting, confessing and forsaking our personal wrong doing THE key component of salvation. A person who blame shifts either hasn't experienced the salvation of God, or has forgotten that salvation is ALL about taking responsibility for our sin. |
|
|
I have faith in mankind........'s sin nature, and rebellion against God. |
|
|
The ones that I am leary are those who feel that they have been directed by god to do this or that. Many bad things can be masked and/or justified under this cloak. Otherwise, whatever floats your boat... (just don't introduce creation into science class...) |
|
|
I can imagine that seems weird. But we beleive the Bible is the Word of God, and thru it, God commands certain things of us. But never fear - Most of the commands are along the lines of: Love your neighbor as much as you love yourself. If he strikes you on one cheek, let him give you a matching pair. If you see your brother in need, and have an extra coat, give it to him. And a hundred other ways of showing him the love of God. Interstingly, MOST of the malicious acts people use the cloak of "Christianity" for are EXPRESSLY prohibited behavious in God's Word. |
|
|
Too much faith in God?
Reminds me of a story that I've heard several times. A very devout man was stuck on the roof of his house in a flood. As the waters rose around him, another man in a rowboat comes by and offers to rescue him. The man says, "No, I'll be okay... God will deliver me..." The waters continued to rise and a while later, a raft comes floating by with some people on it. They offered to throw him a rope and rescue him from the roof. Again, the man says, "I'll be fine... my God in heaven will deliver me." As the waters rose to but a few inches blow covering the entire roof, a helicopter came by. The pilot boomed from the loudspeaker, "I'll drop you a ladder and rescue you..." Again the man yells to the pilot... "GOD WILL RESCUE ME FROM THIS!!! I HAVE FAITH!!!" Of course, the man drowns. Because of his faith, he make it into the gates of heaven, and when he finally is greeted by God himself, the man asks, "God! I know everything is your will, but I had faith and you didn't save me!" God replies, "I sent you a rowboat, a raft, and a helicopter... what more did you expect?" |
|
Anybody with that attitude would show a critical lack of understanding. I am responsible for my decisions and the consequences thereof. While I am forgiven for the sins I commit, I cannot escape the results here. Let me give you an example. A friend of mine is a pastor. He told me about a guy who came in to speak with him. This guy explained that he and his girlfriend had stepped over the line of intimacy and they were afraid she was pregnant. He asked, "Would you pray with me that she wouldn't be preganant?" My friend replied, "No. God's not in the business of doing abortions to save your reputation. However, I will pray that he will give you the strength and guidance for you to shoulder your responsibilities and do what's right." |
|
|
You can tell me what "is" means all day long, but "is" means "is" no matter what you say. Sgat1r5 |
|||
|
Christians - How is it that somebody sees "test of faith" or some such, and decides that they have to ignore common sense solutions to their problems because of some odd idea that using those common sense solutions would be showing that they don't have enough faith in God?
Where does an attitude like that come from? |
|
|
||||
|
I don't know. I use common sense & experience as much as I can. The faith part comes in when the solution is beyond my abilities or defies common sense. |
|
|
+1 on Brohawk. Any Christian that ignores common sense will live a rather poor Chrsitian life. I could give an entire raft of verses that enlist common sense as primary tool for beleivers. |
||
|
You still have your Free Will, but understand that God knows ahead of time which you will choose, even if you don't. And He may well place obstacles in odd places.
This does not detract from the fact that you have Free Will, just adds to the awesomeness (is that a word?) of His power. Given an infinite number of possibilities of choices, He has worked them all out ahead of time so He knows what will happen regardless of which you choose. Choose wisely |
|
(And did you use the "raft" part of "raft of verses" on purpose?) |
|||
|
Glad to. It'll be this weekend, prolly in a thread all its own. Like anyone else, us beleivers need slapping from time to time. And I'd rather it be done by another human, than by the hand of God. (If you want to IM me some specifics, I can include verses applicable to the situation you face . Just change the names to protect the innocent, please. ) |
||
|
Yes, it is possible.
Usually faith does no harm, and sometimes does good by creating a positive mindset and indicating a moral direction. But an excess of faith can prevent people from solving problems in a practical way or seeking appropriate medical treatment. At it's extreme, "too much faith" makes people incapable of thinking for themselves, and easily led into "jihad", drinking poisoned Kool-Aid, waiting for the space ship behind Hale-Bopp, etc. |
|
I agree that "people of faith" often act irrationally, but it is NOT a Biblically correct faith that causes that. I'd more say its the 'attention whore' factor - "look at me, I have more "faith" than you." Which is unBiblical. Once again, a true Chrsitian is one who follows the teachings of Christ. |
|
|
It's exactly this scenario that I envisioned when I made my initial post. Nice work, Rodent, Doublefeed, SgtAR15, and Garandman, and several others whose names (but not words) I have forgotten. So, THIS is why they removed the religion from GD, huh? Mo' betta responses, more intelligent debate, more civilized discussion all around! |
|
|
Of course, people deny medical use all the time in the name of God and simply don't understand that to learn to heal is a gift from God.
Dumb is as dumb does. Tj |
|
I'm liking it. |
|
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.