Hornet and harrier are similar too. If you are looking for paired modules. Not that i reccomend the harrier to anyone.

Why not the harrier?  Just because it's a harrier or is the model done poorly?

It's been in early access for over two years, updates are infrequent, and Razbam doesn't have the best reputation.

For what it's worth I enjoy flying the Harrier on occasion.

I love the actual plane. Like really really love it, its one of my favorite A/C.

[Rant on]

Razbam has entirely pigfucked it. Its been out for 2+ years and day1 bugs are still there, entire systems are missing or mismodled based on available documentation. And speaking of documentation, razbad seeks to give you a franken bird with a lovely mix of features that a single plane never actually had per actual usmc maintainers. Bug wise, lemme tell you how much folks loved to have a  non functional ASL line for bombing for 1.5 years on a plane whose primary mission it is to drop bombs. The ARBS (primary bombing system) is barely modeled above "arcade mode" and is still missing features like moving target compensation and wind correction cuz you know who the fuck would need that. The entire loft bombing system (heavily used IRL) totally missing. The INS system which is central to all weapon delivery functions? Not modled, you gots that thar GPS thingie after all. Usefull AA modes like SEAM dont work and the even more useful DMT sidewinder slave isnt even on the roadmap most likely. The FM is crap by even my low standards (and they are, believe me). I could go on, but you get the picture.

And what Razbad hasn't manged to pork ED/DCS world has. Like the absolutely absurd FARPs that are a bad joke, no roadbase functionality (this might work offline now?) And you cant even fucking take off from the tarawa online without backdoor finger fucking the server for nearly 2 years, and that only works sometimes.

So if you want to buy half finished franken harrier with little hopes of it ever actually being completed or bug fixed, by all means  buy it to support the shittiest dev in the DCS eco system. Ps their lead coder thinks youre that better idiot they keep telling him about per his online signature line. And if you buy it, well, hes probably right...

The thing that really pisses me off is that if the Harrier was developed by literally any other developer it would probably be the best module in DCS.

[Rant off]

*this opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it.

TLDR
Some people like it cuz its unique and it does sorta work these days. But there are tons of bugs and innacuracies. And its really hard to use as an actual VSTOL plane or
Marine plane online. If you dont care for realism and want to fly a clickable fc3 plane it could be your next ride.

The other Raz modules have similar problems with the m2k probably being the best of them. Though its being remodeled so its back to WIP status. But lamentably the Wazbaham business model is to pump out one barely functional module per year regardless of incomplete their other ones are (mig19 ring a bell?). So expect a crappy mig23 this year, or maybe the dumpster fire of an F15E (Which of course won't actually have AI multicrew, cuz you know that's actually hard to do, and Razbam doesn't do hard). They might fuck up the Bo-105 too if they sign that contract.

Id buy heatblur or deka M3 or aviodev long before id consider any Raz module.

Thanks for your .02.  Unfortunate to see officially sponsored content allowed to be done so poorly.

Is there a list anywhere that shows(with some accuracy) what planes are modeled very well, well, poorly as well as showing how complex each one is modeled(from full systems, clickable cockpits, to arcade systems, no clickable cockpit etc).

Tough to find accurate info that goes into detail the pros and cons of different models with any accuracy.  Steam reviews are most assuredly worth what you pay for them and the Harrier has a "very good" rating on Steam so... doesn't seem that should be trusted.

It's a real shame that Raz has locked down some of the most interesting projects in DCS (Strike Eagle, Flogger, SuperTuc) when it's very apparent they don't have the chops to do any of them justice.  I fully anticipate them breaking their promise to finish current EA modules before releasing something new, for the same reason ED is addicted to early access (cash flow).

Yeah, that's the biggest issue I have with them as well, they have basically shown utter contempt for the DCS community, lied to customers on multiple occasions etc. At the end of the day they have really talented artists, however their coders and FM guy(s) are just not up to par. And yes, they have this horrible strategy of staking out iconic modules and then blowing them. The harrier could be the most amazing module in DCS if heatblur or even ED had done it, cuz they would have done it right, and they have amazing systems and FM guys, not to mention artists.

At the end of the day I think most guys could care less about the M2k or the Mig19. But the F15E is going to be a dumpster fire IMO, its way more complicated than the Harrier systems wise and they have demonstrated with the harrier that they just can't hack complicated systems like that. I'm a wee bit more optimistic about the mig23 since its much simpler and the mig19 despite being a fiasco at release is 6 months later at least sorta flyable, though I really think they need to do more work on the FM. But at the end of the day the Flogger is basically a M2k in terms of capability so they know how to build a basic radar, some Fox1's and 2's to go with it, they will sort-of borrow as much of the mig-19 systems and cram them in as best as they can. They claim they will do the Lazur datalink (which it desperately needs) but I doubt its gonna be anything good. Also, given its complex aero being a swing wing its gonna have FM issues that make the mig19's FM problems look small (and they're not).

Think I'm going to stick with the FC3 models and grab the F-5E or M2000 while they are cheap.  I'm assuming you can still have a fair bit of fun with the F-5E online and it seems stupid easy to learn relatively speaking.

M2000 seems a bit more complex but probably more competitive online.  Only concern if I go with the F-5E is it almost seems too easy.  Sure you're up and running in short order but doesn't seem like it would be great at learning the basics of some of the more advanced weapon systems.

edit:  oorrr... I may just say fuck it and grab the F-16 as it's my favorite aircraft currently modeled and something I'd actually have a strong interest in mastering.

The F-5 is a great plane, but it’s difficult to master, and you absolutely have to understand it’s limitations or you’ll quickly find a situation in DCS where it’s out of its element.

A-A it can potentially hold its own against Gen 4... the problem is actually getting to the merge without eating a Fox 1/Fox 3 for which you have no answer. Against similar aircraft (Mig19/21) I’ve had some of my most fun and satisfying dogfights in DCS.

A-G it is fully manual, which actually makes you plan an attack and fly an attack profile instead of just fly to the target area and let CCIP/CCRP do the work. It takes a lot of practice but man is it fun when it all comes together. Lack of standoff weapons means you are not nearly as survivable over a defended target.

The F5 if flown competently can be dangerous to gen4's, same with the mig21. You just have to survive to the merge with both which is doable. I got killed by a very good pilot in a mig21 the other night cuz he flew in such a way I couldn't employ my Fox3's and I lost him when we got to the merge (Mr. mig is small), so he pwnd me.

As for the M2k, its another "fine" raz product. Its a bit more competitive online due to having some fox1's but its still buggy as hell due to the current re-do (oh wait, they didn't actually have SME's or good documentation the first time....) and its ground attack capability has been borked for years ( CCRP) and again, no interest from them to fix it.

I'll mirror the other guys, I love my F-5E.  I flew the crap out of it when I first started DCS because the systems are simple and the ground attack made a lot of sense.  If you can stay low and have GCI or Air Control, you can seriously ruin Red team's day.  You are tiny and hard to see with good acceleration and if you can drag a hornet slow you can kill him with guns.  It's very satisfying to start turning with an F-14 or F-15 (if they even come down from 40k) and get a sidewinder in their tail pipe.  My favorite thing to do with the F-5 on the caucus map is to get low and try a snake eye delivery or rockets on vehicles or an airfield, then punch off my pylons and find a Red fighter.

Yesterday we found out its easier to run a dedicated server than trying to play peer to peer.  We had a blast running missions he created.  And I learned a lot from his immediate input versus the instruction you get from the training tutorials.

Glad you got it figured out.  And the small training sessions are much easier to mess around with what you want to practice with at that moment.

Yup, I should also mention, what map you are on definately effects the play style and planes used pretty dramatically. On the Cauc map you can hide in hills from SAMS, AWACS, and enemy air if you need to. You can usually sneak up on a SAM site or target much easier than on the PG map, which unless you are deep in iran is basically flat, or ocean, aside from a few neat hills around khasab, which means you can't hide for shit.

Well this sucks... apparently that sale doesn't go until the 5th on Steam.  I'd prefer to keep the game on Steam vs standalone after doing some research but the only way to get the sale price now is to buy it through the standalone website.  Unfortunately that model cannot be transferred to Steam, despite also being sold on Steam.

edit:  Just went standalone to get the sale price.  Grabbed the F-5E and F-18 while it's cheap.  If I get the hang of the F-18 maybe I'll grab the 16 when it's a little further along and goes on sale.

Just ordered an HP Reverb, first venture into VR.

Pics of the new free map are coming out - it's the Mariana Islands, so Guam and others. I think this was a good choice and I was expecting a Pacific island map. Good for later WW2 battles as well as adding a good dynamic for naval battles.

Interesting choice.  Potentially a nice dual-use map for modern and PTO scenarios, but it just increases the need for more WWII assets and a Zero module.

Nice to see the goal of both Viper and Hornet out of EA by the end of the year.

Good choice, provided you can run it.

Yeah I think it is a very interesting choice. and it might be a hint to where ED is looking to go in terms of remote naval action. It would really interesting if the modeled the Liaoning and a J15 as upcoming modules, maybe with Deka. Or a modern Mig29K and an updated Kuzenestov.

It'd also be nice to have a naval damage model that was worth anything.  My buddy and I practiced Harpoons this week and put eight of them into a cruiser only to leave it at about half health and still ready to fight.

A good damage model period would make the game 1000% better.  That's my number 1 complaint.  After that is FLIR and EW.

I know it's probably not popular, but I think the 2020 goal for hornet and viper completion is a pretty reasonable goal.

Yeah sweet jesus that needs some serious work. Both damage modeling, CIWS/ADA systems, and actual damage from warheads. The harpoon and AKG on the jeff are a joke while the RB-15 and 04 on the viggen just cream ships.

I'd love to see deka do a J-15 and liaoning. But I'm pretty sure they can't/wont beyond AI/models. Or FC3 level at best.

Its not like the russians were ever gonna send the Kuz down south to do anything, but I'm sure we will see that fictional scenario play out.

I also find it interesting that this map is like 90% water, so a) fast to make, and b) will perform well since there is nothing to render (relatively speaking). Same deal for the upcoming raz falklands map.

Agreed on all points. The current damage model/weapon effects suck, particularly for cluster munitions and dumb bombs/rockets. I'd take EW before FLIR, but both are desperately needed.

Why isn't it popular, I think ED could probably get the hornet done this year without too much more work, I think the Viper is a bit opmitistic but then again weapons are at least gonna be copy-pasta ish so I expect to see some rapid progress there.

Well, not unpopular here, but other places on the intertubes......

I think (and ED probably announced somewhere) that the hornet is really serving as a template for modern jets going forward.  Because of that, I think viper work is probably going to go faster than most expect because they will have less go back and fix stuff projects and more done right the first time through.

They need to be careful with how they run IADS behavior.  With the EW environment they have right now a decent air defense network is going to make gameplay miserable or bland missions will be necessary.  I know they don't want to get into a realistic modeling of the EW world, but they really need something different than the joke they have now

I also like the idea of the new free map.  Like you said its easy to make, uses less resources, but it's also a great way to focus the action. It's also a smart move for pimping the carrier module coming

Chiz posted a job opening for a programmer with C++ and EW experince 2 weeks back.

Sort of. Im just wondering what the opfor is supposed to be.

I have just above the min requirements right now.  Expecting to upgrade the video card/GPU soon.

We need Sea Harrier FRS1 and GR3s for the Falklands along with Super Etendards.

Raz has the frs1 on tap. And mirage 3s.

I'm excited for their F15E.  Hopefully the rumours I've heard about it being front seat only with no option for live WSOs aren't true.  Spent many days in high school watching the 15s at Bitburg come and go, huge 15 fan.

Heatblur did some real magic with their dual seat F-14 that is making everyone else look like fools because they are sticking with "We are waiting until ED fixes it" when ED doesn't care to fix the root problem.

If that's the case then they drop the idea of an E and go with a full fidelity C.

i'd buy it. Can't stand non clickable cockpits anymore

Not to derail much, but what HOTAS or stick combo are you all using?

Currently the TM1600.  Its quite good for the price, however I am looking to upgrade to the Warthog.  Winwing is way out of my price range.

Warthog with a 3” extension

Warthog

Ok nice. I had been using all T.16000 throttle stick and rudder. My wife bought me a warthog throttle for Christmas so I was wondering if it’s worth going to the warthog stick too?

Yes, especially for the A10/F16.  Your workload will be a lot easier and more natural when you have the actual HOTAS of the plane you're flying.  TMS, DMS, CMS become intuitive.

a couple Hotas Wartog + Hornet stick on a Virpil  base and a 10cm extension, and Thrustmaster TPR rudder pedals

I also still have my Hotas Warthog RSS1 with force sensors as a sidestick for the viper.

yes, I spend way too much on this stuff

What are you guys  using for rudders? My Saitek's toe brake return spring broke and I'm looking to replace them soon.

I'm just using Saitek still.  There's not a lot of options between the cheap ones like that and very expensive ones.

I have a lot of luck using the twist stick function on my T16000M Thrustmaster.

Agree I played for 4 months or so with the FC3 planes and after getting the hornet and the viper. It's hard to go back.

Alright finally up and running(ish).

Got some issues with my controls figured out and have been flying around in the F-5E.  At my level it seems like just enough fiddling around to keep me interested but not at all overwhelmed.  Probably a piss poor analogy but but feels a lot like boxing to me.  Extremely limited on tools/abilities but mastering them requires a lot of work.  I can drop eggs surprisingly accurate with very little stick time already but when things start hunting you down and shooting back this thing is...challenging.  Haven't really bothered with the radar yet but not sure I'd use it much anyway, especially online.  I'd sooner hug the ground and go unnoticed than announce my presence.

I'm parking the game for now though.  Can't find my trackIR anywhere.  Got left at my parents house and after my mom passed my dad cleaned house and I fear it got caught in the crossfire and is gone.

I think we have a PS4 camera so I'm probably just going to grab or build a tracking setup and use the PS4 camera.  Hitting ground targets is plenty fun using the HAT switch to look around but trying to track a Mig with it is just annoying.

Also I agree 100% on the comments about the DM.  Game looks fantastic until you start shooting stuff off of stuff or putting holes in ships, then it really shows its ass...

edit: is there a function that allows you to 'snap' your view back to center when you aren't using VR or head tracking?  Mapped a few things that sounded like it was what I was looking for but as far as I can tell they didn't do anything at all.  Would be nice to be able to snap back to forward quickly when I'm in a dogfight and lose orientation on where I'm looking.

Glad you like the F-5 it’s one of my favorites. The radar is really only used for ranging and is best left off until you’re saddled up behind a guy for a guns kill.

As for return to center try pressing 5 on the num pad.

This. AI is all-knowing so nose hot or cold doesn’t seem to matter. Against other players, stay low, or at least not marking, with nose cold until ready for guns. Let AWACS guide you to the merge.

Consider vr. Head tracking is crap in comparison.

F5 online, depending on the server not radiating can help. But servers with enemy human awacs you are likely boned. Cold war server is a good one for f5s plus you are your own awacs with the absurdley too modern rwr on that one.