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Posted: 9/8/2015 9:08:14 PM EDT
A friend of mine recently bought her first firearm, a CZ75. I got to play with it a bit. She told me she was having trouble pulling back the slide. I tried and I had issues with it. Granted, it was a slippery polished stainless pistol, but due to the limited surface area, I couldn't get a good grip on it. It is the only pistol I've ever handled where I had some difficulty racking the action. Is there some kind of trick to doing this? I have zero issues with Glocks, hipowers and old school 1911s with shallow serrations on the slide.
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[#1]
Take the safety off first.
Just kidding... They can be a pain for the first few hundred rounds but will ease up after that. V Eta I just pulled mine put of the safe and I noticed that when I pull back on the slide, i use the meaty part of the palm/thumb and 4 fingers, not my typical "pinch" method i use on my other semis. |
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[#2]
Get stronger.
Seriously, it takes more grip strength and conditioning because of the reduction in surface area. I have a 24# spring on my 10mm Witness, watching people try to charge it is freaking hilarious. I rack it like a .22. It's all in what you're used to. With lady shooters, a lot of it is mental too. |
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[#3]
cock the hammer back first if it is down, don't try to fight both the recoil spring and the main spring at the same time. as others have said with time you/she will warm up to it and find it easy to do with cocking the hammer first.
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[#4]
Since the design has the frame rails on the outside there is obviously less surface area.
Honestly it's a strength issue along with technique. I notice my wife would try to grab the whole slide on the M&P to charge a round. With the CZ it's a thumb and pointer finger deal more or less. |
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[#5]
Two things
1 make sure the hammers cocked, less resistance that way (DA only models your just screwed) 2 quit trying to pull the slide back, hold the slide and push the grip of the pistol forward. Your slide side arm stays at full extension and you use the extension of you grip side arm to push forward on the frame. |
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[#6]
You get used to it, is all I can really say. It is a combined movement of pulling back while pushing the frame forward.
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[#7]
Yeah, it's tough because of the short slide height. I find wearing a good set of shooting gloves helps a ton.
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[#8]
Do your lady friend a favor and point her at CorneredCat.com.
http://www.corneredcat.com/ It's a web site specifically for female gun owners. It has an article specifically for women about racking a heavy slide. |
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[#10]
I see people have the same problem when they are not used to a 1911.
Used the push pull method, cock the hammer, and shoot the hell out of it. |
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[#11]
My CZ is the gun my wife jokingly refers to as "the one I can't rack". As one poster said, use a meaty grip with thumb and 4 fingers. As well as pushing with the strong hand as opposed the letting the reaction hand do all the work. After working with her and developing a method, she can work slide fine now, but not as easy as her M&P.
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[#12]
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[#13]
You might want to make sure she can remove the slide too, and expect it to be even more difficult. Lining up the notches and pushing out the slide release pin with a punch or magazine seems like it requires three hands until you get the hang of it.
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[#14]
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[#15]
Reverse your racking hand (left hand). Such that elbow is extended past muzzle (obviously well above it for safety). Then push with right hand while essentially holding left hand still (while it's still grasping the slide).
Also, cocking the hammer first goes a long way. |
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[#16]
Quoted:
Reverse your racking hand (left hand). Such that elbow is extended past muzzle (obviously well above it for safety). Then push with right hand while essentially holding left hand still (while it's still grasping the slide). Also, cocking the hammer first goes a long way. View Quote This. When you do it this way you can grip the slide with all 4 fingertips on one side and the heel of your hand with the other. Lots of bearing surface this way. Then fire away and enjoy the low muzzle-rise of that low bore center. |
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[#17]
Quoted:
This. When you do it this way you can grip the slide with all 4 fingertips on one side and the heel of your hand with the other. Lots of bearing surface this way. Then fire away and enjoy the low muzzle-rise of that low bore center. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Reverse your racking hand (left hand). Such that elbow is extended past muzzle (obviously well above it for safety). Then push with right hand while essentially holding left hand still (while it's still grasping the slide). Also, cocking the hammer first goes a long way. This. When you do it this way you can grip the slide with all 4 fingertips on one side and the heel of your hand with the other. Lots of bearing surface this way. Then fire away and enjoy the low muzzle-rise of that low bore center. Also, once your muscles learn how to do this, it will be a non-item, and cocking the hammer first will not be necessary. I upped my spring to 18lb, and it's still a non-item. |
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[#18]
Thanks for the advice guys. I'll play with it next time I have the opportunity. I think we're going shooting this Saturday. If she continues to have trouble, I'll probably advise her to trade it, though I hope it won't be necessary. It looks like a nice pistol. And being as heavy as it is, I'm betting it's a very mild shooter.
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[#19]
Quoted:
Two things 1 make sure the hammers cocked, less resistance that way (DA only models your just screwed) 2 quit trying to pull the slide back, hold the slide and push the grip of the pistol forward. Your slide side arm stays at full extension and you use the extension of you grip side arm to push forward on the frame. View Quote edit: This goes for any person that has a hard time racking a slide on any pistol. |
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[#20]
Quoted: edit: This goes for any person that has a hard time racking a slide on any pistol. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Two things 1 make sure the hammers cocked, less resistance that way (DA only models your just screwed) 2 quit trying to pull the slide back, hold the slide and push the grip of the pistol forward. Your slide side arm stays at full extension and you use the extension of you grip side arm to push forward on the frame. edit: This goes for any person that has a hard time racking a slide on any pistol. Push the gun forward, hold the slide still and when it gets all the way, keep pushing through till it lets go forward. I had a more articulate way to instruct it, and it was way easier to show it in person. |
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[#21]
Quoted:
+1, plus it gets people in the habit of letting go of the slide instead of riding it forward. Push the gun forward, hold the slide still and when it gets all the way, keep pushing through till it lets go forward. I had a more articulate way to instruct it, and it was way easier to show it in person. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Two things 1 make sure the hammers cocked, less resistance that way (DA only models your just screwed) 2 quit trying to pull the slide back, hold the slide and push the grip of the pistol forward. Your slide side arm stays at full extension and you use the extension of you grip side arm to push forward on the frame. edit: This goes for any person that has a hard time racking a slide on any pistol. I had a more articulate way to instruct it, and it was way easier to show it in person. +2 This was a game changer for my Wife with regards to pistol shooting. |
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[#22]
Quoted:
+2 This was a game changer for my Wife with regards to pistol shooting. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Two things 1 make sure the hammers cocked, less resistance that way (DA only models your just screwed) 2 quit trying to pull the slide back, hold the slide and push the grip of the pistol forward. Your slide side arm stays at full extension and you use the extension of you grip side arm to push forward on the frame. edit: This goes for any person that has a hard time racking a slide on any pistol. I had a more articulate way to instruct it, and it was way easier to show it in person. +2 This was a game changer for my Wife with regards to pistol shooting. It's much easier to demo than to explain. |
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[#23]
Like folks are saying. Cock the hammer first.
I'd also recommend putting an empty magazine in it and racking the slide to the rear and letting it sit for a week or two with the slide locked back. It seems to help on the magazines, too. Load them up and let them sit. After a couple of weeks its much easier to load those last couple of rounds than when brand new. If her CZ is like my CZ's it'll be the most accurate pistol she has. My wife confiscated my best shooting XDM a couple years back since she shot it so well. A few weeks back we went to the range and she shot my CZ P09 .40 S&W with full house hollow point loads and it shot, for her, rings around the XDM she'd favored before. It's a good thing that P09 is so big, she won't want to carry it. I may have to get her a P07 though. We'll take the P07's next range trip and see what she likes best the 9MM or the .40 S&W and then it's off to the gun show. |
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[#24]
Quoted: Like folks are saying. Cock the hammer first. I'd also recommend putting an empty magazine in it and racking the slide to the rear and letting it sit for a week or two with the slide locked back. It seems to help on the magazines, too. Load them up and let them sit. After a couple of weeks its much easier to load those last couple of rounds than when brand new. View Quote Also, that's not how springs work. |
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[#25]
Doing dry fire practice at home before hand, she was able to pull the slide back thanks to these tips. At the range, it was a bit harder, but I think she'll get the hang of it. I put the target at 10 yards. She was pulling it a bit low, but the group was centered and about 5 or 6 inches across. I was impressed.
I actually really liked the CZ75. I thought some of the controls were in odd spots, such as the slide release being too far forward, but it shot very well, and felt good in the hands. |
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[#27]
I would get rid of the CZ75 and get a VP9. The CZ75's slide design is stupid. You can rack it fine under ideal conditions but if there is oil or sweat it will not be so easy.
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[#28]
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[#29]
Quoted:
A week or two of dry fire is going to be a lot more beneficial. Also, that's not how springs work. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Like folks are saying. Cock the hammer first. I'd also recommend putting an empty magazine in it and racking the slide to the rear and letting it sit for a week or two with the slide locked back. It seems to help on the magazines, too. Load them up and let them sit. After a couple of weeks its much easier to load those last couple of rounds than when brand new. Also, that's not how springs work. Yep, that's what they say. Try it some time with a 19 round (9MM P09), or 15 round (.40 S&W P09) or 14 round P14 .45 acp magazine and you'll find out they are easier to get those last couple of rounds in after they've been fully loaded for awhile. I use my uplula loader to force that last round, or two, in a new magazine and after awhile, I no longer need it - till I get in some new magazines. |
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[#30]
Quoted:
Yep, that's what they say. Try it some time with a 19 round (9MM P09), or 15 round (.40 S&W P09) or 14 round P14 .45 acp magazine and you'll find out they are easier to get those last couple of rounds in after they've been fully loaded for awhile. I use my uplula loader to force that last round, or two, in a new magazine and after awhile, I no longer need it - till I get in some new magazines. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Like folks are saying. Cock the hammer first. I'd also recommend putting an empty magazine in it and racking the slide to the rear and letting it sit for a week or two with the slide locked back. It seems to help on the magazines, too. Load them up and let them sit. After a couple of weeks its much easier to load those last couple of rounds than when brand new. Also, that's not how springs work. Yep, that's what they say. Try it some time with a 19 round (9MM P09), or 15 round (.40 S&W P09) or 14 round P14 .45 acp magazine and you'll find out they are easier to get those last couple of rounds in after they've been fully loaded for awhile. I use my uplula loader to force that last round, or two, in a new magazine and after awhile, I no longer need it - till I get in some new magazines. It might be more of a function of everything seating together after pressure is applied. I've had similar results with the Mecgar mags, they are hard to load fully when new and after several loadings tend to become easier it doesn't seem like the spring tension is lower, it just seems like there is somehow more room. It seems to affect the mags with plastic base plates more than the flush fit metal base plates. |
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[#31]
View Quote Requires shitty muzzle control. There's nothing stopping women from being able to rack the slide with the muzzle pointing downrange. |
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[#32]
Quoted:
I would get rid of the CZ75 and get a VP9. The CZ75's slide design is stupid. You can rack it fine under ideal conditions but if there is oil or sweat it will not be so easy. View Quote And you have experience racking the slide on a CZ under difficult conditions? While I find the slide a bit short for my preference, even with my huge hands, I have no trouble grasping the slide, under ideal conditions or not. And, while springs are not worn out by continuous and sustained compression, but rather by cycling, leaving a magazine or recoil spring under tension will relax it somewhat. |
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[#33]
I had a Baby Eagle which is a similar design with low surface area on the slide. I always grabbed the sights on it. If hers are tall enough it could be a way go to also.
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[#34]
I just grab it (PCR) between my thumb and index finger for slide lock reloads, same as any other pistol. I'm a lefty, I found it to be the fastest and most consistent way to reload. With the slide forward I'll either do the same thing or use the overhand push-pull. I'm no he-man hulk and it's never given me any problems.
The wife didn't have too much trouble the first time shooting it. Showed her the overhand push-pull when I instructed her on how to load it. It's definitely the easiest way if someone is having trouble racking the slide. She might be afraid to handle it rough to. Make sure she knows it's just a tool and she's not going to damage it. |
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[#35]
That's one of the reasons I ended up selling my CZ-75BD Police. I really liked the way it shot, but it had a few drawbacks for me. I could rack the slide, but my wife had a very difficult time with it since the slide is so short so it's hard to get a good purchase on unless you have a lot of grip strength. For me it worked best to put the bottom of my left palm on the left side of the slide (far enough back that you are behind the extraction port) and then wrap my hand over and grab the right side of the slide with the tips of my fingers. Simultaneously pull back with your left hand and push forward with your right hand. It should loosen up quite a bit when it's broken in, but I've heard quite a few people (especially women) complain about how difficult it is to rack the slide on the CZ-75. It also helps to cock the hammer before racking as some have said.
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[#36]
Quoted: And you have experience racking the slide on a CZ under difficult conditions? While I find the slide a bit short for my preference, even with my huge hands, I have no trouble grasping the slide, under ideal conditions or not. And, while springs are not worn out by continuous and sustained compression, but rather by cycling, leaving a magazine or recoil spring under tension will relax it somewhat. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: I would get rid of the CZ75 and get a VP9. The CZ75's slide design is stupid. You can rack it fine under ideal conditions but if there is oil or sweat it will not be so easy. And you have experience racking the slide on a CZ under difficult conditions? While I find the slide a bit short for my preference, even with my huge hands, I have no trouble grasping the slide, under ideal conditions or not. And, while springs are not worn out by continuous and sustained compression, but rather by cycling, leaving a magazine or recoil spring under tension will relax it somewhat. I carried a CZ-75 for years. They're good handguns, but the inside-the-frame slide design with inadequate gripping surfaces is very poor for a combat handgun. It offers no advantage. |
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[#37]
Haha. This reminds me of the first time I handled a CZ-75 in a shop. I tried to rack the slide and it slipped right out of my hand, resulting in me sweeping my gut with the muzzle. I gave the pistol the dirtiest look and handed it back to the gun counter guy. Have had zero interest in CZ-75s since. I think the slide design is kind of .
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[#38]
The way I see a lot of folks do it is overhand pinch the front of the slide between thumb and web of thumb or palm up to where the index finger starts. Fingers pointing downrange. On a 75 it would be right at the "step" in the slide. On a SP-01, use the forward cocking serrations as intended.
Don't blame the equipment for a technique/strength problem. |
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[#39]
I've got 2 CZ's ..I only have one arm and I believe the way I rake all my semi autos may help her...I use the rear sight pushed hard against the souls or heel of my shoe to push forward on the frame ...CZ's are the hardest to rake the slide on but it is possible..if I'm inside the house or around something wood I even rest the end of the slide above the muzzle/barrel end and again just push the frame forward..takes practice but works great..I'm a former Texas LEO and was taught this during the academy incase of an arm injury...
Jackpot Edited to add...over a decade of using this technique to rake slides on glocks,1911,CZ,XD,ruger..so on...ive never once damaged a front or rear sight...the paint on the top of the sight may have rubbed off a few but the sights themselves were never knocked off or out..they are tougher than some may think.. |
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[#40]
Quoted: I've got 2 CZ's ..I only have one arm and I believe the way I rake all my semi autos may help her...I use the rear sight pushed hard against the souls or heel of my shoe to push forward on the frame ...CZ's are the hardest to rake the slide on but it is possible..if I'm inside the house or around something wood I even rest the end of the slide above the muzzle/barrel end and again just push the frame forward..takes practice but works great..I'm a former Texas LEO and was taught this during the academy incase of an arm injury... Jackpot View Quote |
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[#41]
Damn, sorry to hear about your injury, but congrats on your unique skills and dedication.
Many thanks! Jackpot |
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[#42]
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[#43]
Quoted:
I carried a CZ-75 for years. They're good handguns, but the inside-the-frame slide design with inadequate gripping surfaces is very poor for a combat handgun. It offers no advantage. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I would get rid of the CZ75 and get a VP9. The CZ75's slide design is stupid. You can rack it fine under ideal conditions but if there is oil or sweat it will not be so easy. And you have experience racking the slide on a CZ under difficult conditions? While I find the slide a bit short for my preference, even with my huge hands, I have no trouble grasping the slide, under ideal conditions or not. And, while springs are not worn out by continuous and sustained compression, but rather by cycling, leaving a magazine or recoil spring under tension will relax it somewhat. I carried a CZ-75 for years. They're good handguns, but the inside-the-frame slide design with inadequate gripping surfaces is very poor for a combat handgun. It offers no advantage. This. If you insist on sticking with one of these pistols, perhaps find a way to incorporate the rear sight into your slide-racking technique. Or you could weld little tabs on, ala VP9 |
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[#44]
Quoted:
Nope. Requires shitty muzzle control. There's nothing stopping women from being able to rack the slide with the muzzle pointing downrange. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Nope. Requires shitty muzzle control. There's nothing stopping women from being able to rack the slide with the muzzle pointing downrange. And it still doesn't help them rack the slide. I usually teach my female friends to hold the slide still, and pointed downrange, and use their dominant hand to push the pistol with their hips/center of gravity, so you aren't just using upper body strength. Basically, Method Two from http://www.corneredcat.com/article/running-the-gun/rack-the-slide/ ETA: Except most women I taught preferred holding the slide with their hand the other way around from Cat's picture, as if you were going to slingshot the slide. |
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[#45]
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