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Posted: 10/23/2003 4:02:31 PM EDT
Suffolk County here, expecting my pistol permit anyday now, whats the lowdown on carrying, or transporting on the island?
Link Posted: 10/23/2003 4:14:46 PM EDT
Usually works in some sort of bag. I personally like the brown paper variety but to each his own.
Link Posted: 10/24/2003 2:14:00 PM EDT
Doesnt it say 'This licensee is authorized to possess and carry the following pistols' and list the handguns you have? Mine does. So I put it in a IWB holster anf go about my normal day...

Link Posted: 10/25/2003 3:57:33 AM EDT
In Suffolk you will probably be issued a"sportsman permit" which is a local "policy"(Suffolk sheriffs) attached to the state license which states that you are legal to carry the pistol when transporting to the hunting area or the range and any reasonable travel between home and there. The inspector I had basically told me that they would PREFER you to carry concealed when you do but that the permit is only valid to carry the pistol for the purposes described above. So if you choose to carry your pistol outside of those parameters and get caught you can fight it and probably won't get convicted of a crime but most likely WILL lose your pistol permit permanently.
Link Posted: 10/25/2003 9:40:13 AM EDT
I don't know about Suffolk, but in Nassau if you belong to a 24/7 range you have no problems carrying.
Link Posted: 10/25/2003 10:09:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By edpmedic:
I don't know about Suffolk, but in Nassau if you belong to a 24/7 range you have no problems carrying.



I guess if you have an answer to why you live in West Hempstead, you were found in Bayville but the range is in Freeport.
Link Posted: 10/25/2003 11:57:51 AM EDT
Vinnie hit the nail on the head, according to friends who are local cops, and friends with pistol permits. Abusing such "privelages" just gives the "antis" their own form of ammunition.
Link Posted: 10/25/2003 2:58:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By edpmedic:
I don't know about Suffolk, but in Nassau if you belong to a 24/7 range you have no problems carrying.



Yep, isn't that what you told the home depot clerk when you were trying to buy a roll pin? And of course pointing to that fanny pack on your belt!
Link Posted: 10/25/2003 3:06:22 PM EDT
Any carry restrictions on a NYS carry permit are administrative only. You can't be legally be arrested or prosecuted for a Penal Law violation because no such law exists to charge you with.

www.troopers.state.ny.us/Firearms/FAQs/FAQindex.html

Q - What section of the Penal Law authorizes the placing of restrictions on pistol permits by the issuing authority?

The Penal Law does not specifically authorize the placing of restrictions on pistol permits. However, court decisions have consistently supported the ability of licensing officials to impose these restrictions. Such an imposition is an administrative function of the licensing officer.

Licensees in violation of these restrictions would therefore not be subject to criminal prosecution but would face action being taken by the court of issuance in the form of suspension or possible revocation of the license.


Link Posted: 10/25/2003 3:18:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Vinnie:

Originally Posted By edpmedic:
I don't know about Suffolk, but in Nassau if you belong to a 24/7 range you have no problems carrying.



I guess if you have an answer to why you live in West Hempstead, you were found in Bayville but the range is in Freeport.



Why would one of Nassau Counties finest be asking you anything? That is unless you do something really stupid like menacing someone, exposing your gun or beating up your wife/GF/SO in the precinct parking lot.
Link Posted: 10/25/2003 5:26:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
Any carry restrictions on a NYS carry permit are administrative only. You can't be legally be arrested or prosecuted for a Penal Law violation because no such law exists to charge you with.

*snip*



Actually, I believe there is a misdemeanor you could be charged with from section 400.00, which deals with licensing.
Link Posted: 10/25/2003 8:19:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rkbar15:

Originally Posted By Vinnie:

Originally Posted By edpmedic:
I don't know about Suffolk, but in Nassau if you belong to a 24/7 range you have no problems carrying.



I guess if you have an answer to why you live in West Hempstead, you were found in Bayville but the range is in Freeport.


Why would one of Nassau Counties finest be asking you anything? That is unless you do something really stupid like menacing someone, exposing your gun or beating up your wife/GF/SO in the precinct parking lot.



S*** happens. I could be something as simple as going through a red/yellow light, forgetting to put your seat belt on, going a little faster than you should or not stopping enough for a cop on the scene to have them pull you over, and then what. Would you want to be in that situation?
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 5:25:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:

Originally Posted By BuLLet:
Actually, I believe there is a misdemeanor you could be charged with from section 400.00, which deals with licensing.



Correct. Violating the terms of your permit is a Class A misdemeanor under Article 400 of the Penal Law. Persons convicted of a Class A misdemeanor lose their right to possess firearms for five years in New York State.



Is this something new or are you referring to carrying on a premises permit? That is a criminal offense.

I have personally seen a directive issued by the NYSP to all PD's in NYS that violations of carry restrictions are not subject to arrest and that if warranted they should be brought to the attention of the licensing officer. This was issued awhile back so it’s possible something has changed since then.

Where in the NYS PL ARTICLE 400 is this codified?

assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?cl=82&a=72


Link Posted: 10/26/2003 5:51:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Vinnie:

Originally Posted By rkbar15:

Originally Posted By Vinnie:

Originally Posted By edpmedic:
I don't know about Suffolk, but in Nassau if you belong to a 24/7 range you have no problems carrying.



I guess if you have an answer to why you live in West Hempstead, you were found in Bayville but the range is in Freeport.


Why would one of Nassau Counties finest be asking you anything? That is unless you do something really stupid like menacing someone, exposing your gun or beating up your wife/GF/SO in the precinct parking lot.



S*** happens. I could be something as simple as going through a red/yellow light, forgetting to put your seat belt on, going a little faster than you should or not stopping enough for a cop on the scene to have them pull you over, and then what. Would you want to be in that situation?



Vinnie, s*** does indeed happen but are you saying that you routinely do a custodial arrest with a search incident to that arrest for a minor V&T infraction?

I practice the Golden Rule of traffic stops which is "Don't be an Asshole" and talk the PO into issuing you a summons or worse arresting you.

BTW, I'm not advocating that anyone should carry in violation of any restrictions on their permit.

Link Posted: 10/26/2003 8:35:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rkbar15:

Originally Posted By Vinnie:

Originally Posted By rkbar15:

Originally Posted By Vinnie:

Originally Posted By edpmedic:
I don't know about Suffolk, but in Nassau if you belong to a 24/7 range you have no problems carrying.



I guess if you have an answer to why you live in West Hempstead, you were found in Bayville but the range is in Freeport.


Why would one of Nassau Counties finest be asking you anything? That is unless you do something really stupid like menacing someone, exposing your gun or beating up your wife/GF/SO in the precinct parking lot.



S*** happens. I could be something as simple as going through a red/yellow light, forgetting to put your seat belt on, going a little faster than you should or not stopping enough for a cop on the scene to have them pull you over, and then what. Would you want to be in that situation?



Vinnie, s*** does indeed happen but are you saying that you routinely do a custodial arrest with a search incident to that arrest for a minor V&T infraction?

I practice the Golden Rule of traffic stops which is "Don't be an Asshole" and talk the PO into issuing you a summons or worse arresting you.

BTW, I'm not advocating that anyone should carry in violation of any restrictions on their permit.




First off, I want to clarify my tone so there is no mistake. We're just having a discussion. I'm not point fingers, I'm just looking at worse case senerios.

Secondly I work the Transit System in NYC, so deal with minor violations all the time. If I see a bulge under some guys shirt, or his hands in his pockets, I will damn make sure my safety is not in question. If I come up with a gun or knife, this minor violation turns into something not so minor anymore. Blade-wise, it may turn out that this guy is a grocery worker and does have need of carrying a box cutter, but until I find out that is the fact he will be cuffed. It's not a Jack boot thug thing, it's a "I wanna go home at the end of the tour exactly as I started the tour" thing.

Now if I were a Nassau County Cop, and I pulled you over for something as minor as a seat belt or rolling stop sign, and I notice you are wearing a gun fanny pack (let's not kid ourselves, you might as well wear an "I'm carrying tee" when you have one). I am definitely gonna ask questions, and in the senerio I posted above, If it's in some affluent North Shore Community, you better have a good explanation, because at that point I'm not thinking "average law abiding citizen protesting an unconstitutional law." I'm thinking, "this guy may jack some North Shore resident."
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 9:53:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/26/2003 9:55:29 AM EDT by rkbar15]
Vinnie, I understand where you’re coming from. I never got the feeling that you were pointing fingers at anyone. I also never get into the constitutionality of firearm laws in NY either. The law is what it is until the courts rule otherwise. I don’t have the time or funds to challenge them. I wish I did.

This issue at hand is the penalties associated with the arbitrary administrative restriction(s) placed on NYS carry permits. We’re talking about people who have gone through a comprehensive background check, a firearms safety course (in some jurisdictions) and have been issued a NYS license to carry a concealed firearm. They are not the enemy. Are you going to jam them up on some administrative BS that you have discretion to ignore? Sort of like the administrative BS the NYPD is afloat in.

Don’t be surprised if in the future your carrying of firearms is restricted to on-duty carry only. It’s happened in quite a few jurisdictions already. After all why do you need to carry a firearm for protection anyway? You have 911 don’t you. Isn’t that enough? That’s the way some of these asshole legislators think. And remember someday you will be retired and be just one of us.

Until someone cites the case law and/or section of the PL which makes it a crime to carry a firearm in violation of a restriction on a carry permit I’ll continue to state that these are administrative restrictions only. I’m also going to follow-up with the NYSP, DCJS and the AG’s office.

Forget the fanny pack. The gun is in his wife’s purse on L.I.!

For the record I wanna go home at the end of my “tour” also.
Link Posted: 10/28/2003 11:00:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/28/2003 11:03:45 AM EDT by edpmedic]
Usually sometime the day I carry I am going to go to the range..In FREEPORT. I am thinking of also joining the Bethpage so I am able to shoot rifle indoors. They have a a very nice range there also.
I guess that's what I said Bullet. Since you like putting words in my mouth all the time. Ill do a search on the site later. Than I will know for sure. ;-}
Link Posted: 10/29/2003 3:34:41 PM EDT
"Until someone cites the case law and/or section of the PL which makes it a crime to carry a firearm in violation of a restriction on a carry permit I’ll continue to state that these are administrative restrictions only."

Anybody???? Where are all the real lawyers?

Link Posted: 10/30/2003 5:58:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
"Until someone cites the case law and/or section of the PL which makes it a crime to carry a firearm in violation of a restriction on a carry permit I’ll continue to state that these are administrative restrictions only."

Anybody???? Where are all the real lawyers?




Do your own homework, get out the McKinney's annotated and read the squibs. It's right there.
Link Posted: 10/30/2003 3:37:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
"Until someone cites the case law and/or section of the PL which makes it a crime to carry a firearm in violation of a restriction on a carry permit I’ll continue to state that these are administrative restrictions only."

Anybody???? Where are all the real lawyers?




Do your own homework, get out the McKinney's annotated and read the squibs. It's right there.



Gee thanks. It's always nice to know you can count on a fellow New Yorker. Did you get up on the wrong side of the bed today? Have a nice day.

Link Posted: 10/31/2003 5:36:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
Do your own homework, get out the McKinney's annotated and read the squibs. It's right there.

Gee thanks. It's always nice to know you can count on a fellow New Yorker. Did you get up on the wrong side of the bed today? Have a nice day.




Sorry Rkbar, that was an especially cranky response on my part!!! Well, you are right, and here is your answer:



THE PEOPLE &C., APPELLANT, v. FRANK THOMPSON, RESPONDENT.
92 N.Y.2d 957, 705 N.E.2d 1200, 683 N.Y.S.2d 159 (1998).
November 18, 1998
AppT No. 167
[98 NY Int. 0139]
Decided November 18, 1998


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This opinion is uncorrected and subject to revision before publication in the New York Reports.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

John F. Carroll, Jr., for appellant.
Susan Courtney Chambers, for respondent.
MEMORANDUM:


The order of the Appellate Term should be affirmed.

The issue on this People's appeal is whether defendant's alleged violation of the terms and conditions of hisweapons license may constitute a misdemeanor under Penal Law § 400.00. The People initially charged defendant with two felony counts of Criminal Possession of a Weapon in the Third Degree (Penal Law § 265.02[1]) and two counts of Criminal Possession of a Weapon in the Fourth Degree (Penal Law § 265.01[1]). These charges were dismissed. When the People then moved to accuse him under Penal Law § 400.00(17), defendant moved to dismiss. The People next proposed to charge defendant under Penal Law § 400.00(8), which requires licensees to carry their licenses when guns are in their possession.

There is no dispute that defendant was in possession of weapons and ammunition at the time he was stopped by police in the Bronx. The weapons were not loaded and were being transported, together with the separate ammunition, in an unlocked and unlockable pouch placed on the passenger seat of defendant's vehicle. Also undisputed is the fact that, at the time of his arrest, defendant possessed a valid license to own, possess and transport those weapons. The license was issued by the Police Commissioner of the City of New York pursuant to New York City Administrative Code § 10 131(a)(1). The front of defendant's license states that it is a "TARGET" type of "PISTOL LICENSE," "ISSUED UNDER ARTICLE 400, PENAL LAW." The back of the license states:

"THIS LICENSE IS ISSUED UNDER THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS 1. It is REVOCABLE at any time * * * 5. TARGET LICENSE. RESTRICTED . Issued for TARGET PRACTICE and hunting ONLY. Licensees are restricted to TRANSPORTING their firearm(s) UNLOADED, IN A LOCKED CONTAINER , DIRECTLY to and from an authorized range or hunting location. Ammunition will be transported separately."


Criminal Court granted defendant's motion to dismiss the charges, finding that defendant's actions, while violative of the conditions and restrictions of the license, did not constitute a violation under Penal Law § 400.00. Appellate Term affirmed, stating that the appropriate remedy for license violations is administrative, within the regulatory framework. On the People's appeal to this Court, we now affirm.

Penal Law § 400.00 does not expressly address the manner and circumstances under which a target pistol may be carried pursuant to a license issued by New York City's Police Commissioner. This Court has held, however, that the power to issue a license necessarily and inherently includes the authority to impose conditions and restrictions ( see, Matter of O'Connor v Scarpino, 83 NY2d 919, 921).

Here, the alleged transgression is not prohibited or restricted by the Penal Law. Thus, we conclude that this violation of the regulatory terms and conditions of the license may not carry a penal sanction. That consequence is for the Legislature to prescribe and proscribe, and it has not done so within the framework of Penal Law § 400.00 ( compare, Penal Law § 205.00). We agree with the lower courts that the available sanction for the violation of this administratively imposedcondition relating to the license at issue should be confined to the administrative apparatus ( see, People v Parker, 52 NY2d 935, reversing on dissent of Birns, J., 70 AD2d 387, 391 394).

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Order affirmed, in a memorandum. Chief Judge Kaye and Judges Bellacosa, Smith, Levine, Ciparick and Wesley concur.

Decided November 18, 1998



Link to the Case
Link Posted: 10/31/2003 3:56:44 PM EDT
Phil_A_Steen: No problem. I have more then my share of cranky days. I really appreciate the time you took to research the issue. Thanks again.

I have two questions. The issue we were discussing was carrying in violation of a restriction on a NYS carry permit and not a NYC target permit. 1. What is the applicability of this case outside of NYC? 2. In any case doesn't the case you cited agree with what I have been saying that violating a restriction is administrative in nature and not a criminal offense as defined in article 400 of the Penal Law? I have seen a directive from the NYSP legal division to all PD’s in the state of NY that states these restrictions are administrative and that anyone violating a restriction is not to be arrested. Once again this is for NYS carry licenses and not NYC target permits. This is all stated on the NYSP website as well. Would you please clarify this? TIA
Link Posted: 11/1/2003 4:05:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
I have two questions. The issue we were discussing was carrying in violation of a restriction on a NYS carry permit and not a NYC target permit. 1. What is the applicability of this case outside of NYC? The case is by the State Court of Appeals and is binding precedent on all courts in New York State. (New York City permits are statewide permits. Non-NYC permits are not valid in NYC unless endorsed. They are issued under the same statute, PL400.)


2. In any case doesn't the case you cited agree with what I have been saying that violating a restriction is administrative in nature and not a criminal offense as defined in article 400 of the Penal Law? I have seen a directive from the NYSP legal division to all PD’s in the state of NY that states these restrictions are administrative and that anyone violating a restriction is not to be arrested. Once again this is for NYS carry licenses and not NYC target permits. This is all stated on the NYSP website as well. Would you please clarify this? TIA
I think this case supports your view. If anyone out there can shepardize or keycite it we will know definitively if there is any negative history. I can't do it until next week.

Link Posted: 11/2/2003 4:48:20 PM EDT
Vinnie your right...I had to read your post over to understand since I live in Baldwin. Sometimes you do errands before or after going shooting. I have no intentions of allowing the anti's to get the upper hand.

When I applied for my licence I was told it was ok to carry has long as you belonged to a range that was 24/7. I have been asked twice by Nassau PD why I have a gun. One time I just did come from the range. The other time I was going later that day. It seemed to be alright with them.
Link Posted: 11/2/2003 6:50:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By edpmedic:
When I applied for my licence I was told it was ok to carry has long as you belonged to a range that was 24/7. I have been asked twice by Nassau PD why I have a gun. One time I just did come from the range. The other time I was going later that day. It seemed to be alright with them.



Why wouldn't it be "alright?" Your NYS license is a carry license and not a premises license. If I'm going shooting at a range after work am I expected to drive home first?

Link Posted: 11/3/2003 12:34:27 PM EDT
ok, next question then, which range or ranges are 24/7 on Long Island?
Link Posted: 11/3/2003 3:34:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rkbar15:

Originally Posted By edpmedic:
When I applied for my licence I was told it was ok to carry has long as you belonged to a range that was 24/7. I have been asked twice by Nassau PD why I have a gun. One time I just did come from the range. The other time I was going later that day. It seemed to be alright with them.



Why wouldn't it be "alright?" Your NYS license is a carry license and not a premises license. If I'm going shooting at a range after work am I expected to drive home first?




Unless I have the wrong permit in mind, you're suposed to be allowed to carry to and from the range only, with the exception of getting something to eat along the way. Otherwise it's a loophole giving you the oportunity to have a "full carry" permit, and even those have limitations. They are usually given to people that carry large sums of money, or jewelry for work, or prescription drugs (I know of a vet that has one). Even "full Carry" permits have limitaions. They allow carrying only during business hours or business related situations (ie. Midnight bank drops). I've heard of people getting around that by keeping bank deposit slips in their glove box/wallets. In NYS the only true "full carry" permit comes with a shield.
Link Posted: 11/3/2003 3:36:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dodgeram:
ok, next question then, which range or ranges are 24/7 on Long Island?



All the 24/7 ranges I know of are actually "Gun Clubs/" I know the Freport Club has a 24/7 range. I think the Roslyn Club has a 24/7 range. The Pine barrens gives youa key, but I'm not sure if they set time limits. I know it's out doors, but I think they have lights for night shooting.
Link Posted: 11/4/2003 6:58:59 AM EDT
I submitted my CCW permit paperwork yesterday here in Dutchess county. Thanks for the link to the sate code (section 400?). From reading it, it seems to indicate that a CCW permit in NY is not the same as a typical CCW permit in another state. Am I wrong in interpreting that unless you fit a very narrow range of criteria (judge, guard, etc) you cannot carry concealed except to and from the range. WTF?? Why dot hey call it a CCW then if they restrict it to travel to and from the range and reasonable stop(s) in between? Sounds like smoke and mirrors to me. I don't have a clue what kind of restrictions, if any, I'll get from Dutchess county when/if I get approved. Anybody here with a Dutchess county issued CCW and is it restricted?
Link Posted: 11/4/2003 10:32:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/4/2003 10:39:34 AM EDT by BillStClair]
New York Law does not provide for anything like a target and hunting permit. It's either premises (or business) only or full carry. I know a number of Rennsalaer County full-carry permit holders. Many judges add the target and hunting restriction as an administrative amendment. I have heard that some of them will lift the restriction if you're a good boy and take another class. This varies a lot from county to county. Don't know about Dutchess county.

My boss just got his Albany County permit approved. The judge restricted it to target and hunting. But the judge told him that if he felt he needed his handgun while hiking in Adirondack Park, that he should take a target with him. That's what the judge does.
Link Posted: 11/4/2003 4:47:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Vinnie:
Unless I have the wrong permit in mind, you're suposed to be allowed to carry to and from the range only, with the exception of getting something to eat along the way. Otherwise it's a loophole giving you the oportunity to have a "full carry" permit, and even those have limitations. They are usually given to people that carry large sums of money, or jewelry for work, or prescription drugs (I know of a vet that has one). Even "full Carry" permits have limitaions. They allow carrying only during business hours or business related situations (ie. Midnight bank drops). I've heard of people getting around that by keeping bank deposit slips in their glove box/wallets. In NYS the only true "full carry" permit comes with a shield.



In NYS outside of NYC there are three types of pistol licenses defined in Article 400 of the Penal Law. They are; premises (not carry), employment (carry related to employment - security/bank guard armored car guard etc.) and a carry license. There is no such thing as a target or hunting license under NYS law.

In most jurisdictions a carry license is issued without any administrative restrictions specified. This is a full carry permit and is good 24/7 anywhere in the state except for NYC. This permit has nothing to do with carrying large sums of money or anything else. If the judge does issue a carry permit and at his discretion restricts it to target and hunting it is still a carry permit under NYS law. There are no Penal Law restrictions as to what time of day or any other type of restriction associated with this license. It is a license to carry a concealed weapon anywhere in NYS except NYC. Any restrictions that are added by the licensing officer (Judge) are administrative only. It is not a loophole that you are going target shooting or hunting after/before/during work or a day off.

The only difference between an unrestricted carry permit in NY and the authority with which a PO carries a pistol is the restriction on carrying in NYC for the non PO. It is also possible to have NYC validate your pistol permit so it is valid in NYC. State Senate Majority Leader Joseph L. Bruno has such a permit.
Link Posted: 11/4/2003 4:58:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TRW:
I submitted my CCW permit paperwork yesterday here in Dutchess county. Thanks for the link to the sate code (section 400?). From reading it, it seems to indicate that a CCW permit in NY is not the same as a typical CCW permit in another state. Am I wrong in interpreting that unless you fit a very narrow range of criteria (judge, guard, etc) you cannot carry concealed except to and from the range. WTF?? Why dot hey call it a CCW then if they restrict it to travel to and from the range and reasonable stop(s) in between? Sounds like smoke and mirrors to me. I don't have a clue what kind of restrictions, if any, I'll get from Dutchess county when/if I get approved. Anybody here with a Dutchess county issued CCW and is it restricted?



AFAIK Dutchess County is still issuing unrestricted carry permits. It is good 24/7 anywhere in the state except for NYC.

Link Posted: 11/5/2003 1:35:57 PM EDT
It's also a sad state of affairs when a NYS resident can get PA & CT carry permits with no problems but can't get an unrestricted permit in NY.

Link Posted: 11/5/2003 8:13:26 PM EDT
Reading this reminds me of why I did not have a pistol permit before I became a cop and why I will not after I am no longer a cop. Too much bullshit. MIKE.
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 4:54:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
It's also a sad state of affairs when a NYS resident can get PA & CT carry permits with no problems but can't get an unrestricted permit in NY.




A Florida permit is better than a PA permits - it gives you reciprocity in at least 13 states (not CT, NY or NJ of course).
Link Posted: 11/7/2003 1:32:37 PM EDT
I still have a valid Utah CCW permit and will be renewing it at the end of the month. Good for another five years though I doubt I'll ever go back to use it.
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 5:04:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mike103:
Reading this reminds me of why I did not have a pistol permit before I became a cop and why I will not after I am no longer a cop. Too much bullshit. MIKE.



Mike, when you retire, they issue a full carry retiree permit without restrictions. Its filling out a form and no hassles as long as you do it right away. Otherwise they wait for prints. Oh and its good state-wide including NYC.
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 11:51:37 AM EDT
Robert, If you are right then I will keep it. But if you are wrong, I know myself, I will let it go. MIKE.
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 12:20:44 PM EDT
Well, it took maybe 2 hrs for me to get my permit when I retired. I showed up with my collection, they looked them over and handed me my new pistol permit. Nothing to it.
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 12:49:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By edpmedic:
Vinnie your right...I had to read your post over to understand since I live in Baldwin. Sometimes you do errands before or after going shooting. I have no intentions of allowing the anti's to get the upper hand.

When I applied for my licence I was told it was ok to carry has long as you belonged to a range that was 24/7. I have been asked twice by Nassau PD why I have a gun. One time I just did come from the range. The other time I was going later that day. It seemed to be alright with them.



i dont know who told u this info, thats ridiculous.

In nassau its stamped" target & hunting"
It may help to belong to a 24/7 range as it gives u an alibi why u are carrying concealed.
It definately does not give u permission to carry.
Im suprised u still have a permit.

On another note i know more than a few NYPD officers who were not able to keep a NYC carry permit after retiring, not sure why
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 12:52:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
It's also a sad state of affairs when a NYS resident can get PA & CT carry permits with no problems but can't get an unrestricted permit in NY.




I got my PA carry permit thru the mail $50
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 8:30:41 PM EDT
Bullet, Is your Suffolk permit good in NYC? I thought you had to work in the city to get a city permit when you retire. MIKE.
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 4:19:33 AM EDT
Yes it's good in NYC. Not due to the city's kindness, it's due to a NYS law that was enacted years ago for retired cops. It makes their permits issued anywhere in NYS to also be valid in NYC. But there is a catch, it's only with a duty type weapon.
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 6:11:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BuLLet:
Yes it's good in NYC. Not due to the city's kindness, it's due to a NYS law that was enacted years ago for retired cops. It makes their permits issued anywhere in NYS to also be valid in NYC. But there is a catch, it's only with a duty type weapon.


You can only carry a duty weapon in NYC or anywhere in NYS?
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 11:52:28 AM EDT
Without a NYC permit, retired law enforcement can carry a 'duty' type weapon listed on their permits in NYC. You can carry anything listed on your permit anywhere else. If not for that legislation enacted a few years ago you would have had to get a 'special' NYC permit to carry there.
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 12:07:08 PM EDT
NYC restricts the type/caliber of firearms you can register on your carry permit. This applies to both retired NYC LE and non LE with NYC carry permits. Retired LE with NYS permits have the same restrictions only when carrying in NYC. Outside NYC both LE and non LE can carry whatever they want.
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 2:04:18 PM EDT
And you wonder why I say I can't stand the bullshit! MIKE.
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 2:50:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
NYC restricts the type/caliber of firearms you can register on your carry permit. This applies to both retired NYC LE and non LE with NYC carry permits. Retired LE with NYS permits have the same restrictions only when carrying in NYC. Outside NYC both LE and non LE can carry whatever they want.



Actually, if you live in the city and retire as a cop you can get any 2 guns on that carry permit you wish. They don't care in the least what they are, but.. if you have more then 2 guns the rest have to go on a premises/target permit. NYC has no say whatsoever in what guns retired cops with non-city permits can carry in NYC. The law states police duty type weapons. So, if you were a cop in oshcosh NY, and you carried 357 mag type revolvers you can carry that in NYC. You are not limited to what NYC considers what a Police Duty weapon is. What you can't carry in NYC are weapons that are not typically used by Police Officers in NYS like a single shot contender, shit like that.
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 6:45:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/9/2003 6:48:16 PM EDT by rkbar15]

Originally Posted By BuLLet:

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
NYC restricts the type/caliber of firearms you can register on your carry permit. This applies to both retired NYC LE and non LE with NYC carry permits. Retired LE with NYS permits have the same restrictions only when carrying in NYC. Outside NYC both LE and non LE can carry whatever they want.



Actually, if you live in the city and retire as a cop you can get any 2 guns on that carry permit you wish. They don't care in the least what they are, but.. if you have more then 2 guns the rest have to go on a premises/target permit. NYC has no say whatsoever in what guns retired cops with non-city permits can carry in NYC. The law states police duty type weapons. So, if you were a cop in oshcosh NY, and you carried 357 mag type revolvers you can carry that in NYC. You are not limited to what NYC considers what a Police Duty weapon is. What you can't carry in NYC are weapons that are not typically used by Police Officers in NYS like a single shot contender, shit like that.



Bullet: Some of your statements contradict each other. Like I said NYC restricts what you can carry in NYC. Isn't that what you are also saying?

The info that I posted is what they told me in person at 1 Police Plaza. It was a while ago so your info could be more current then mine.


Link Posted: 11/9/2003 7:27:14 PM EDT
Let's do it this way to make it easier to understand. NYC cops do not carry 357 magnums, so to them a 357 would not be a 'police duty type' weapon and therefor as per you they could 'restrict' retired cop non-nyc permit holders from carrying those guns in nyc. But, according to the law, any retired cop from NYS can carry a 'police duty type' weapon in nyc without getting a nyc permit. So, I used an example where a retired cop from another police agency in NYS that carried a 357 doesn't need to get a NYC permit to carry them in the city. It's not what NYC considers to be a 'duty weapon', if that type of gun was used by your department you can carry it in nyc, they have no say in the matter. And as I interpret the law, not being a lawyer mind you, it reads to me as if it was a common duty weapon anywhere in NYS *any* retired cop could carry that weapon in NYC regardless of their agency actually using that type. It just says 'duty type', not that it has to be your duty weapon from the agency that you retired from.

You can't carry that contender cause NYS says you can't, not NYC. It's not a duty gun. Though, you never know, some redneck pd in NYS just might use a contender as a 'duty' gun and you could.. :) Understand it now?

If you live in NYC and retired from NYC you could carry any 2 guns your choose on your carry permit, they won't restrict you in the least. But, that's all you'll get those 2, any other guns you have can't be carried ever and have to be treated like those on a 'premise' permit. In fact you'll get 2 permits, a full carry for the two that you choose, and all the others on a 'premise' permit. NYC no longer issues 'target' endorsed permits cause of the way the penal law defines pistol permits.
Link Posted: 11/10/2003 4:38:18 AM EDT
Current NYC "premises/residence permits with target endorsement" are possibly carry permits, despite NYC's best intentions to make them premises only permits. The New York State penal law does not provide for the class of permits NYC is trying to issue -- by giving the permit holder permission to possess off residential premises, the permit may no longer be a residential permit but a carry permit, despite NYC calling them that. I'm not going to be the one to challenge that but it remains a solid defense if you are prosecuted for Art 265 weapons possession for carry on a residence w/endorse permit.
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