Posted: 2/18/2004 7:50:14 AM EDT
|
I have a question about the MN CCW. Before I ask I want to state that I aprove of the CCW. And I have no problem with anyone who carries legaly. That being said, am I wrong to feel I don't need a CCW? I have been a gatherer of firearms for many years. I am not worried about my abilities to control a handgun by any means. I am a life member of the NRA, which I only bring up to show I am serious about my hobby. I was an Policeman for a number of years, and I was in the Army, visiting a few "hot" spots during 6 1/2 year tour. I was even a victim here in Minnesota before my police and Army years. Yet, I just don't feel a need to carry. I don't really have any arguements against carrying. I can say that I live in a small town, but work in the metro area. I don't frequent places that I feel uncomfortable in (but I'm not a hermit, I'm a parent). And if I do go somewere new, or farther away I usually have a peice of my collection in the car (transported legally of course). I am not trying to start a flame war, or get flamed myself. But the other day I was at a gun show, and a gentleman with a conceal holster booth, asked if I had my CCW? I told him no. He asked "Why not?" I replied honestly that I didn't feel I needed it. He told me rudely to "get rid of the Spare tire in my truck, if I never used it, I must not need it." I told him I was in the market for a range holster for one of my smaller autos, and that was a nice way to make a sale, be rude to customers. Either way, my intention is not to discredit this guy, but to ask is this the common attitude? Am I way off base? I am sure that a life experience could change my beliefs, but at this time I just don't wish to carry. What are your thoughts? Both from those with and without CCW's? Thanks for your opinions, sorry so long. |
|
Laws are only respected by the Law Abiding Citizens. Law Enforcment Officers are only able to intercede after the fact. Very rarely are they able to intercede before something happens. A firearm is a tool, just like carrying a cell phone. Simply put carrying a gun is a choice some choose to make. And, from the estimates the citizens of MN are not meeting the expectations of the CCW law framers. Ensuring our own Personal Protection is a choice some of us make. |
|
I just like the option to carry if I feel the need. I am generally very aware of my surroundings at most times and when feel like a potential threat is near, I like the ability to arm myself should the worst case arise. Case in point #1: I typically go to the same bank to get cashier's checks to buy items on the equipment exchange. One day, I go in and there is a mug-shot up stating to look out for this certain guy who has been lurking in the neighborhood and is a potential thief/robber/con artist. Prior to that, I was thinking, "I shouldn't carry my pistol in the bank, there's no need." Now, I always carry when going to a bank. There are so many bank robberies in town, that I'd hate to come face-to-face with a gansta and his sawed-off and be blown away in line at the bank. Scenario #2: I hear on the news the other day about some guy who shoots 2 people in South Minneapolis. He shoots his relative at home and then goes out and blows away some complete stranger and his girlfriend on a walk together the day after Valentine's Day. That hits pretty close to home! I know the odds are pretty low that I'd ever have to use it, but when faced with death as the alternative, I'd prefer to be safe than sorry. If the AWB expires, then I can carry my G36K with the stock folded under my coat! 
|
|
While there is an element of truth to what that guy said about the spare tire, you are right. His methodology was terrible. That being said I have to ask. Are you new to Minnesota? I moved here, unfortunately, many years ago & I have never been able, financially, to move out. You have just been a victim of "Minnesota Nice." That's the BIG LIE that they use up here to occasionally project a superficial niceness for a short time when you are useful to the person to whom you are talking. I've never seen such a bunch of unfriendly, back-stabbing, nasty, passive-aggressive bastards as I have in Minnesota. Apparently it's part of the Nordic & German heritage. Did you see the story on "60 Minutes" a few years ago about the Nordic sullenness? That pretty well describes Minnesota, too. |
Actuall, MN State legislature has a clause/part of law stating that it is illegal to carry a long gun (shotty/rifle/carbine) for defense. If I could I'd like to carry my mossberg with me, but I guess that'll never happen...  I'd NEVER be able to afford a G36K!!!  (Unless I sold my car & all my other guns)
|
|
Wow, I expected to see more flames. Either way, I am NOT new to Minnesota, I was born and raised in the cities. I went to college in Minnesota. Then I moved all over the world with the Army. So if you think Minnesota has assholes, don't join the military! I came back to Minnesota because I like the people. I didn't mean to come off as a tree hugging hippy freak, that sees the world in rose colored glasses. I am informed. I've been around, and I just choose not to carry, AT THIS TIME. I don't plan on getting a CCW, but things always have a way of changing. My actual reasoning for not carrying is that both as a police officer, and soldier, I saw too many people young and old alike, actually escalate the situation by drawing their weapons. And these people had proper training, just some people don't make wise decisions. I am not saying that it is never necessary, far from it. But I think often times it can be avoided. I have also been in situations were just the knowledge of my weapons presence escalated the subject, even though my weapon was holstered the whole time. Maybe I am just tired of being the police, so now I choose to settle down. I don't know. Like I said before, I am pro carry. I just wanted to spark some interesting conversation, and get some varying opinions. |
 You CLEARLY have no IDEA what the true value is of a classic collectable automobile... Actually, it has been appraised at $2400 in present condition (post repairs). I'm just happy to have my baby back. It was terrible to take Metro Transit everywhere I went... 16A Bus Line... 2 stops per city block!  Then the nasty people that are always on the busses...  BTW, I have no idea how much a G36K costs... Besides, my Bersa 380 is BETTER than any HK ever made... 
|
|
Ok, at the risk of being hypocritical. I have changed my mind. But only in part for the obvious reasons. I did a little research last night after my last response, and have decided to pursue a CCW for these reasons, in order of most important first. 1. I really would like to take a CCW class. 2. A CCW is convenient for purchasing handguns, and the initial $100 fee is worth it, considering it only needs to be renewed like ever 5 years, and the renewal is free (correct me if I am wrong on these figures). As compared to getting a purchase permit every year (even though it is free). 3. Finally, I will admit that there are times that it would be nice to carry. And just because one has a CCW, doesn't mean one needs to carry all the time. But at least this way I would have the option if I so felt. I appreciate everyones response, and would still like to hear everyones veiws on this subject. Thanks again. edited to add: McNielsen - let me know how that G36K is comming along. Im interested in seing the transformation process. |
|
When it's time for the class be sure to look up Sully and Fritz @ Defensive Edge. After taking a class with them the classes offered by others just seem silly IMO. Most of the people in my class were not planning to carry full time, but wanted the option to carry if they so choose. |
|
Another vote for Sully's classes! The Handguns 1 class isn't JUST for CCW training. It's to focus on both CCW training, legal issues associated with the CCW bill, and it is fantastic for HONING YOUR SKILLS by teaching you new techniques! Don't go into the class claiming to know everything. Just give his techniques a chance, be open minded, and try your best at what he teaches and you're pretty much guaranteed a marked improvement over your current shooting skill. I went into the class with a sort of "yeah right" attitude, thinking I couldn't turn around my handgun shooting ability in just one day... I was open minded, tried the new techniques, and had a GREAT TIME! The odd grip seemed uncomfortable at first, but now it's like second nature for me and I can hit pretty much anything I aim at within 25 yards (and several things beyond that). A great course indeed. Here's a thread reviewing some of Sully's Defensive Edge firearm training courses that many members here have written: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=28&t=174093 The Handguns 1 course is well worth its cost! Congrats on the decision to take the training and go through the paperwork! It's something I sure didn't regret, and it was a TON of fun. |
|
Thanks a freaking lot Inuh! I read ALL the links you posted. Now I can't stop thinking about taking the course, so much for working today! I am not even realy concerned about the CCW, now I just want to go learn some new techniques and hopefully tighten up my groups. Thanks for the info. I will definately get ahold of Sully and see if I can get into one of his classes. Sounds like a great time. |
To follow up with your own points: 1) Taking the class is a VERY good idea. I took it with my Dad and he wants to go back and take Sully's Handgun II class. 2) The CCW permit is very handy. In more ways than one. ;) 3) I do not carry at work. I will not go into why or where, but, it is my choice. As far as all other times, well, "...only the Shadow knows..." And that is the point. Nobody knows if I am carrying a personal protection device or not. What "flipped my bit" to make me take the course and get the permit was I was walking my dog in the park late at night. (not going to say which park) When all of a sudden, a dog that was not from the neighborhood came out of the tree line and after myself and the pooch. It was pure luck that I kicked the oncoming hound just right (nads, it still had them) and it went down. It got up, came around for another attempt. This time, as it was going for my dog, "I split the goal posts" with it and he was down for the count. I got back home and called animal control. I got a call a week later telling me the dog had rabies and asked if either myself or my dog were bit. I could have taken it down with a knife, but, don't care to have blood all over myself. [I am a dog owner and hope that whomever was responsible for that hound gets infected with AIDS...just as their dog was infected with rabies] -Warlock |
|
Congratulations on your decision, MyWar. Sully's course is a good one, not that I have anything to compare it with! Take your rain gear if Fritz is your instructor!  Sorry, Fritz! Anyway, I learned a lot, had a lot of fun, & I would like to take more of Sully's courses. It was definitely worth the money even if there wasn't CCW in MN. Fritz is very knowledgeable & has a lot of practical experience. I think that you may be incorrect in your assumption that there is no renewal fee. I seem to recall reading that there is a maximum $75 renewal fee and that you have to take the course again every 5 years, but I may be wrong. |
| Hardcase- I have an acquantance at the local sheriffs dept who handles the different permit applications. She explained to me that the class was a one time pre-requesite, and that there were no renewal fees. I don't know if this is a county specific policy or not. Also I am by no means knowledgable on this subject, I am only going off of what I was told last week, by a person who actualy processes the paperwork. |
|
Renewal costs are not to exceed $75, the fee is intended to be the actual cost to the LEO. So it could go from $0-$75. I was told by the Sheriff's office they were charging the full $100 for new licenses until they could get data on the actual total cost to the department. Then the cost could come down. Somehow I doubt that will happen. Congratulations on deciding to go for the CCW. I decided to carry back when I lived in California. Being a somewhat adventurous type isn't good in parts of Oakland, East LA, South Central, or San Francisco. I've been more than a little worried a few times, but couldn't legally carry out there. Minnesota's infinitely safer, but, as my cousin a chief of police in a Minnesota town told me, "This isn't the Minnesota you grew up in." |
MyWar & BobP, here is the section of the law about the renewals, etc.:
I was using section 21.32 as the basis for my comment that you would have to take the course every 5 years. I hope that I'm wrong on that one & you're right MyWar. Section 22.3 & 22.4 was the basis for my comments on the $75 charge every 5 years. Again, I hope that it actually does come down. Congratulations again, MyWar. |
|
I forgot about the $5 to the state for renewal. I should have said it would cost between $5 and $75. The law says actual cost or $75, whichever is less. I'm betting the departments will be able to show it costs at least $100 to keep the money coming in. My instructor also read the law as requiring a class to be renewed. |