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Posted: 10/17/2003 5:26:38 PM EDT
Wow, what a cold day to be outside for 8 hours.

I was pretty chilled afterwards, but, there was alot of info and really good training I picked up on.

My dad went with a friend of mine (and myself) and we had alot of fun.

We had "Fritzy" for an instructor and we covered everything.

I enjoyed being out in the cold wind alot more than some study-dungeon with a book for 4 hours. All the places BUT Defensive Edge are more $$$ and only do 15min on the range.

Of our 8 hour day, we were doing 2-3hours of discussion and "what-if" and the law. The rest of the time was technique, technique, and more technique. My dad commented that he managed to undo 55years of bad habits in one day! (like father like son)


Anyhow, it was a good course and HIGHLY recommend anyone thinking about CCW look no further than Defensive Edge. If all you do with other shops is 15min of range time, you are getting ripped off.

-Warlock
Link Posted: 10/17/2003 6:52:16 PM EDT
CONGRATULATIONS!!!

I'm sure all of us MN members who have gone with Def-Edge in the past simply KNEW that you'd love it.


I enjoyed being out in the cold wind alot more than some study-dungeon with a book for 4 hours


However, is the above a sarcastic attack on my personal life??? J/K

Even if other classes offered 1 or more hrs of range time, you'd still be getting screwed by not going with Def-Edge, because the technique & training is worth SO MUCH. I had to unlearn plenty of things as well. It took a while though.

I'm glad you liked the class! Keep up with practicing the hand grip, and techniques so you don't forget them. Muscle Memory is everything.

Link Posted: 10/17/2003 10:04:06 PM EDT
Just to verify, this course qualified you all for a Conceal and Carry permit, right? And what was the name or description of the course? Finally, how much did it cost?

Sorry for all the questions, and thanks for any answers.
Link Posted: 10/17/2003 10:14:23 PM EDT
Sully and Co. are listed on the approved BCA BCA Approved Porgrams for Concealed Carry Permits

You can research the costs and schedule at Defensive Edge

Sully is worth way more! But, do not tell him that!
Link Posted: 10/17/2003 10:46:36 PM EDT
Thanks for the quick reply, rn22. The website is not crystal clear; would any of the Level I, II, or III courses qualify one for Conceal and Carry? Or maybe I should just give them a call and quit sponging off you guys...
Link Posted: 10/18/2003 5:30:23 AM EDT
Level I is the course! 8 hours of fun. Sully lives with idea that class moves ahead when the slowest operator is up to speed. The shooting portion has effectively changed my shooting abilities; and not really undone bad habits. Just enhanced what I was doing! I think the idea is until you shoot one ragged hole at all distances there is room for improvement. This is a true exercise in practical application of a firearm. You can not find a better deal! Sully is a LEO and teaches you the same stuff they get!
Link Posted: 10/18/2003 7:56:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By EndGame:
Just to verify, this course qualified you all for a Conceal and Carry permit, right?



Yes, it is listed as accepted by the BCA for CCW registration.


And what was the name or description of the course?


Handgun I.


Finally, how much did it cost?

It was $110. Bring 300rds of ammo, water/coffee, and dress warm. (if you go to the one in Princeton)

Leave yourself 1hour to get there. I left in the morning at 7am and got there 50min later.

Plan on using a hip holster, as they REALLY frown in shoulder holsters. (I prefer hip holsters anyhow)

You will learn ALOT and keep an open mind. Fritzy let us ramble and kept the discussion going. Alot of the time was spent dealing with "what-ifs" which was nice. Sully and Fritzy know there stuff.

Oh, and if you get all your qualifying shots in one hole, they will take you for a ride on the tank. ;)

-Warlock
Link Posted: 10/19/2003 10:20:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/19/2003 11:53:05 AM EDT by sully]
Link Posted: 10/19/2003 4:26:24 PM EDT
And the fact that the class was held right next door to a real working WWII German (er...polish) tank with a firing main gun was just plain cool.

A true inspiration for making sure you hit your target. ;)

-Warlock
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 8:06:58 AM EDT
Yeah, it was nice meeting you, too, Warlock. I didn't know I was in the company of another ARFCOM'er.

Damn! Now I've got a lot more practicing to do...
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 6:19:21 PM EDT
This definitely sounds like the right course. I've kinda been wavering on whether or not to get the CCW, because I'd probably almost never use it, but this course sounds like it offers a lot more than just a completion certificate. The "300 rounds" was a pleasant surprise.

Thanks to all for the info.
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 7:38:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/20/2003 7:43:42 PM EDT by iNuhBaDNayburhood]
A good way to justify the CCW is this question:

How much do you value your life?

If you were to die, how much money would you pay to stay alive?

What monetary value to you place on your life? Is your life worth $100? Is your life worth $110? Is your life worth $310? Is your life worth $15,000? Is your life worth $20,000?

The logic behind my asking these questions is based upon the argument that in order to attend Sully's FANTASTIC class, "Handguns I", and get your CCW you should look at paying $310 (total) to do so.

$110.00 Handguns 1 Course Fee (WELL WORTH THE $$)
$100.00 Fee For CCW Permit
$100.00 Approximate cost of 300 rds of ammo (Varies based upon caliber)
--------
$310.00 Total to exercise the right to defend your life using whatever means necessary.

Then you have to also determine if your life is worth paying about $15,000 to $20,000 to defend yourself against lawsuit(s) and/or criminal investigation into a shooting.

Ask your friends/family/loved ones if they think you're worth paying $15,000 to keep you alive, or not pay the $15,000 and let you die. They'd likely (if you're a decent human being of value to them) say that you're worth it.

I value my life at those levels, as does my family. As such I think it's worth paying $310.00 for GREAT training and experience, and getting my CCW (plus having a great time doing it)! Do you think it's worth it to you?

If you think about it logically it's only part of what you'd pay for a new firearm, but (especially) the training and the permit are well worth the $$, IMHO. YMMV.

-iNuhBaDNayburhoodProudOfMyDefensiveEdgeCertif­icateForHandguns1

Edited to add:
CONGRATULATIONS to you as well MC!!! Did you bring the GF with for her permit as well??? You've got to get her in on the fun of shooting too!
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 8:20:24 PM EDT
iNuhBaD:

Well, if there's a logical flaw in your argument, it's that I'm worth a whole lot more dead than alive. And there are days when my wife would probably prefer to be set for life over having to continue living with me. Or maybe not, but I'm not always sure...

My own preference is a little more clear. For what it's worth, I'm seriously thinking about this course, and I just emailed Sully with a couple of questions. We'll see what happens.



Link Posted: 10/21/2003 5:14:25 AM EDT
If you do go, remember to bring some food/water. When I went I was pretty much set! I was loaded up with a ton of "Fun Size" Milky Way candy bars, a big bag of Funyuns, and half-dozen bottles of ice cold water... OTOH, if you go this time of year, bring a few cappuccino's (sp?) or something to keep you warm! Take the class and you won't be sorry...

Shit, I just thought about the things I've posted thus far, and I realize: I'm a POST WHORE! Sounds like all of us are paid advertizers of Defensive Edge. I'll remind you that there ARE other instructors out there, BUT NONE OF THEM have the quality, structure, technique, and content of the Defensive Edge courses! GO WITH DEFENSIVE EDGE, IT COSTS LESS, AND IS WORTH A WHOLE LOT MORE!!!

Often when I talk with other friends who have their carry permits (in casual conversation) I tell them several of the things that I learned in the course with Sully, and honestly, one of the most frequent things I hear from my other friends is: "We didn't learn that..." or "Man, Your class covered a lot about legal issues!" Truth is that most just go over permit application requirements, qualification requirements, and then do qualification. Sully's class does a WHOLE LOT MORE and the price is right! Sully is more interested in producing shooters with structured and well developed shooting skills who are also well educated in the legal aspects that will occur when after a shooting.
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 5:54:06 PM EDT
I've kept my mouth shut so far... but you all knew that couldn't last.

I've taken every course that Defensive Edge has offered to us. I'm planning to take every future class offered!

Will I ever become a "High speed, low drag, air cooled, teflon coated" operator?

Nope. But man is it fun to learn at those classes!

It's a shame that the reviews of the carbine and shotgun classes aren't available any more.

Hey Inuh! Can you do something about that?
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 7:07:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FedGunner:
<SNIP>
It's a shame that the reviews of the carbine and shotgun classes aren't available any more.

Hey Inuh! Can you do something about that?



Done, Please See the following Tacked Thread:
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=28&t=174093

A new thread specifically setup for peoples' reviews of Defensive Edge Courses.
Link Posted: 10/22/2003 3:15:41 PM EDT
iNuhBaDNayburhood,

Good work!
Thank you for the quick response.
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