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Posted: 1/7/2006 8:34:19 AM EDT
I am seeing a bunch of arrests lately for CPC 12020(a)(1) lately for people carrying side handle batons, billy clubs or collapsible batons in thier cars. Many of the suspects are stating they were unware that it was illegal to carry a club for protection in California. They also routinley state something to the effect of "I bought it at the gun show, how can it be illegal?"

If arrested for possession of a billy club you can expect a $20,000.00 bail, or being held until arraignment. at arraignment you will likely receive an offer of credit time served with 1-3 years informal probation in exchange for a guilty plead to a misdemeanor. if you dont take the plea bargain expect a felony filing and formal probation.

Either way, if convicted, one of the terms of your probation will usually be "possess no weapons."

Get yourself a CCW permit, a can of OC spray, a good folding knife and training or some MMA training instead. Yes its a silly pointless law but there are other things you can do to defend yourself that will not result in losing your ability to lawfully possess firearms.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 8:49:14 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 8:58:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Paul:
How about a baseball bat...


As I have recommended here before. When asked about a Bat, Maglight, ect by the police the correct response is.

"It's just a bat/flashlight, sir"

The wrong answers are;

"it's for protection"
"Its dangerous out here, a mans gotta protect himself"
"some pepople are after me"
"Better to have it and not need it than..."

I did see one rather iteresting case where a man was arrested for CPC 12020(a)(1) for possession of a baseball bat in his car. he stated he had just played in a softball tournament earlier that day. the arresting officer had years of league play experiance himself and knew it was a womans softball bat. He also contacted the mans alleged team mates who said there had been no recent tourny and found the field the man claimed he played at had been used by another league that afternoon. The suspect had no other sports equipment in his car and was subsequently arrested/convicted.

So if you carry a bat for protection you might want to throw your glove and a ball in the trunk too and have a better cover story.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 9:12:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2006 9:17:57 AM EDT by FireControlman]
Hey I appreciate the heads up. Good stuff to know. So what do I say to the officer/deputy about the USP40 in my F250? (kidding).

Having carried an expandable batton on watch or during counter drug ops for several years while in the fleet I've thought of getting one for personal use. Never knew they were illegal.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 10:06:13 AM EDT
Fuel for thought here....

Remember the old days when professional baseball teams would hold bat night? You get a mini-baseball bat with the team's logo and the sponsor's logo on it. Just think how many felons would walk out o the stadium at/near the end of the ballgame. I wonder if CA teams still do bat night?
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 10:24:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2006 10:27:26 AM EDT by 0311-m249]
Nope, that "looks" friendly.(ok it's really about intent, but the looks friendly argument is funnier, and maybe you just had to transport it in a locked compartment,unloaded,inaccesable to the driver.hitchSorry, it's getting deep, gotta get my waders.

But seriously, appearances. What does it look like? Can you really justify it?
And, it the knife arena, remember, as long as if folds and isn't a switch or bali or double edged, you're good, california has no length limit for plain folders.

That 6" blade ti lite that pops open on the pocket draw is sounding pretty good, too bad it's faster than a switchblade,h.gif legal, etc.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 10:35:53 AM EDT

I used to carry one of those steering wheel lock devices in my car, the ones that lock a bar across the wheel and jam up against the windshield or seat so it can't be turned. Ironically enough, it was named "The Club". So I was never carrying a club, just "The Club". Every once in a while it got put on the steering wheel, but most of the time, it just sat under the seat. It was a couple of feet long, with a weight near the end where the lock is, which would make it pretty painful to get hit with.

Link Posted: 1/7/2006 10:54:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By stator:
Fuel for thought here....

Remember the old days when professional baseball teams would hold bat night? You get a mini-baseball bat with the team's logo and the sponsor's logo on it. Just think how many felons would walk out o the stadium at/near the end of the ballgame. I wonder if CA teams still do bat night?



Yes they do. And i see a few gang members go to jail a month for those souvenier bats. But only if they are stupid enough to admitt they are carrying it as a weapon.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 11:40:56 AM EDT
Get a bat. Keep a mitt and ball in the car with it.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 7:01:08 PM EDT
Are there any restrictions for carrying OC Spray?

Can you just buy it and carry it?

Link Posted: 1/7/2006 7:25:41 PM EDT
I carry an old school all wood Batco tire checker. It cannot be mistaken for a baseball bat unless you stand less than 3 feet tall. The last time I looked, my pickup truck had tires, therefore there should be no question about the tool’s utility. If you plan on carrying one in your vehicle, make sure it shows signs of use (on tires, that is). Stop by your local truck stop if you need one. Apparently, the updated version is Al. Read on…

“Another nifty gadget is the Tire Checker from Batco of North America. According to John Neufeld, Batco’s VP of Marketing, “We are bat manufacturer first and foremost. We took a serious look at how our products might benefit the trucker and came up with this 16” long aluminum bat that has a resonance that can clearly identify a low tire. The hollow bat changes tone depending on the inflation of the tire. Not only is it attractive, it comes in a wide range of colors and even has a leather carrying case. This tire checker makes a great gift or award and is sure to be a tool the driver will use every day. 98% of all flats are caused by drivers not doing a good tire check during the daily walk-around inspection, so on top of everything else the Batco Tire Checker can help perform an important function for the industry.””
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 8:13:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2006 8:26:49 PM EDT by capitol]
.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 8:30:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2006 8:38:16 PM EDT by PaDanby]
As are most replica grenades, surplus grenades that have not bee suitably de-milled (for example still whole with firing device atached, no primer and no powder - fill it with something, drill a hole through the bottom, or lose the top) most throwing stars, nunchuks, etc etc etc

Just about any kind of piece of wood heavier than a cane with a carrying thong can be or has been defined as a baton in cases. If it is something that can be used as an impact weapon, or is designed as an impact weapon, it can be found to be illegal.

For God's sake never attach a thong to a hickory handle for a pick, etc. In the good old days many railroaders used to carry their own brake clubs, similar in size and shape to a pick handle it was used for a variety of tasks involving the running gear of freight cars, getting extra leverage on brakewheels, extra leverage on uncoupling bars opening and closing journal bearing boxes, etc. Also quite handy is discussions if needed.

Most interesting fight I ever saw and got the hell away from was when I lived in San Diego, and about an hour after a Chargers/Raiders game, I saw two contractors pick-ups pull over by Jack Murphy Stadium, the drivers got out and started yelling. One jumped and grabbed an 6 foot aluminum level out of the back of his truck and busted the windshield out of the other truck, the other guy grabbed a level busted the other windshield and they went after each other. Ma Danby insisted we leave, I kinda wanted to see where that one would go.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 10:37:49 PM EDT
Just carry a 32 oz framing hammer.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 1:48:56 AM EDT
Most cars come with a tire iron. Just keep it in the drivers side map pocket.

It's just a tool.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 6:45:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mauser101:
Most cars come with a tire iron. Just keep it in the drivers side map pocket.

It's just a tool.



"Sir, have you had a flat tire lately?"
"Which tire?"
"when exactly?"
"Why is your tire Iron in your drivers door pocket instead of with the jack & spare?"

"...positioned in the drivers door map pocket where it was immediately accessable by the driver for use as an impact weapon, in violation of CVC 12020(a)(1)."
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:32:05 AM EDT
AR15fan,

Realistically, if someone is pulled over for a traffic violation, and the officer starts asking questions about the baseball bat, etc., what is going to happen if you politely decline to answer those questions? Seems to me a baseball bat, accompanied by a mitt, ball, etc., is pretty innocuous in and of itself, and if you keep your mouth shut, you're minimizing your risk. Fairly often I've got items loose in my car which might be considered impact weapons (Maglite, aluminum T-ball bat) which are there for legitimate reasons (i.e., use as a flashlight, use as a T-ball bat), and my plan if stopped and questioned is to decline to answer those questions. Just curious what I might expect if I do.

Thanks for the input,

eje
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:36:32 AM EDT
What about a light sabre?

Link Posted: 1/8/2006 11:00:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By eje:
AR15fan,

Realistically, if someone is pulled over for a traffic violation, and the officer starts asking questions about the baseball bat, etc., what is going to happen if you politely decline to answer those questions? Seems to me a baseball bat, accompanied by a mitt, ball, etc., is pretty innocuous in and of itself, and if you keep your mouth shut, you're minimizing your risk. Fairly often I've got items loose in my car which might be considered impact weapons (Maglite, aluminum T-ball bat) which are there for legitimate reasons (i.e., use as a flashlight, use as a T-ball bat), and my plan if stopped and questioned is to decline to answer those questions. Just curious what I might expect if I do.

Thanks for the input,

eje



The legal theory to remember is "The manner in which it is used defines the tool."

A flashlight is just a flashlight, until you use or carry it as a club. Do the batteries work in the flashlight? Does the bulb work? Where in the car was it positioned?

a working flashlight in the glovebox or trunk is unlikely to be a problem. A flashlight with a broken lens, corroded batteries, impact marks on the finish and stuck between the drivers seat and center console? ju got some splaining to do...
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 12:02:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2006 12:07:06 PM EDT by Zapp]

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By Mauser101:
Most cars come with a tire iron. Just keep it in the drivers side map pocket.

It's just a tool.



"Sir, have you had a flat tire lately?"
"Which tire?"
"when exactly?"
"Why is your tire Iron in your drivers door pocket instead of with the jack & spare?"



Several.
All of them.
I am unsure of when it occured, as it happened while it was parked, and the police didn't seem to care enough to investigate. Maybe you would be so kind as to help me investigate this?
I had it out so I could snug the lug nuts down after driving on them for a little while, to make sure they were properly seated.

That seems like that was easy enough to answer.

Link Posted: 1/8/2006 12:10:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pieeater:
What about a light sabre?

www.fototime.com/4DA7ED370E2A29E/standard.jpg



The kid on the left is obviously going to a party, so he is safe. The one on the right though, is clearly a gang member in possession of a dangerous weapon.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 1:37:49 PM EDT
my wife witnessed a minor fenderbender, nothing serious looking.

a baseball bat was in one of the cars......it killed a 13year old girl who was the passenger.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 10:53:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2006 10:56:10 AM EDT by NorCal_LEO]
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 1:22:51 PM EDT
so where can you store a flash light in a regular cab pick up truck? it won't fit in the glove box. there is nothing to secure it in the bed. behind the seat in a bag with jumper cables is where i have it now.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 2:54:18 PM EDT
they sell a clip mount that you can attach pretty much anywhere.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 3:56:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
The legal theory to remember is "The manner in which it is used defines the tool."



Is this a litmus test for all of California? or just something applied locally in your area of jurisdiction?
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 3:59:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TKoProductions:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
The legal theory to remember is "The manner in which it is used defines the tool."



Is this a litmus test for all of California? or just something applied locally in your area of jurisdiction?



Its taught in academys state wide, and I would be surpirsed to hear that its not true in any court in the nation.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 4:07:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2006 4:34:07 PM EDT by FireControlman]
I got a big ass Colonel Rex Applegate combat folder - the knife is big right, paid for by uncle sam just like my leatherman. It's gear I need in the performance of my duties amongst other items. What if I had in possession a handcuff key on my key ring? Is that legal?

Can mall ninja's and other security guards carry expandable batons? Just curious. I don't have any desire to join the ranks of the ex-Marine mall ninja's and high school campus security who are "going to get into law enforcement".
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 6:15:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FireControlman:
I got a big ass Colonel Rex Applegate combat folder - the knife is big right, paid for by uncle sam just like my leatherman. It's gear I need in the performance of my duties amongst other items. What if I had in possession a handcuff key on my key ring? Is that legal?



I'm unaware of any provision of cali law that prohibits carrying a handcuff key. Florida is one state I know of that prohipits carrying a hidden handcuff key. meaning one carried on your key ring would generally be okay. But one fastened inside the back of your pants with duct tape or a safety pin would not.


Can mall ninja's and other security guards carry expandable batons? Just curious. I don't have any desire to join the ranks of the ex-Marine mall ninja's and high school campus security who are "going to get into law enforcement".


Licensed security guards can carry batons in the course of their employment including to and from.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 9:17:56 PM EDT
God I'm glad I don't live in California.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 9:37:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/11/2006 9:38:52 PM EDT by Paul]
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 10:10:41 PM EDT
So anyways, back on topic...

I didn't know expandable batons were illegal for me to possess until AFTER I purchased one from friggin' Botach over the internet. They knew it was being shipped to a CA address, I never represented myself as an LEO. They never said a word. I found out for myself right here on arfcom.

I happen to have a broken garage door spring on the floor of my truck. Big, heavy and quite lethal.

Hey, door spring broke, haven't gotten around to fixin' it, needed the spring to take to the store for a comparison.

Would that fly?

Link Posted: 2/11/2006 10:21:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Paul:

Originally Posted By Drakich:
God I'm glad I don't live in California.



Me too.



+1
Probably couldn't afford it any way.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 11:59:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Paul:

Originally Posted By Drakich:
God I'm glad I don't live in California.



Me too.

You went back more than a month in the California forum to dig this up?

You have a very boring life.



Nah, it's my fault. I linked to this thread in a GD thread about San Francisco and this subject.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 12:19:45 AM EDT
"I carry this walking stick somedays because my knees don't always work well, officer."

"And you're how old?"

"19"

"Bullshit."

"With all do respect you try jumping out of a 13 foot high tree at the age of 10 and not bending your knees far enough, AND landing on an exposed root with the archs of your feet. See how well your knees develop."



And that's all true too, kids do the dumbfukiest things...
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 12:42:03 AM EDT
I take it that these are a definite no-no?

Sjambok
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 12:57:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2006 9:41:26 AM EDT by Paul]
Violation of the conduct code removed.

Account warning sent.


[Paul]
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 1:00:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GUNSFORHIRE:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
I did see one rather iteresting case where a man was arrested for CPC 12020(a)(1) for possession of a baseball bat in his car. he stated he had just played in a softball tournament earlier that day. the arresting officer had years of league play experiance himself and knew it was a womans softball bat. He also contacted the mans alleged team mates who said there had been no recent tourny and found the field the man claimed he played at had been used by another league that afternoon. The suspect had no other sports equipment in his car and was subsequently arrested/convicted.



this is a fine example of going above the call of duty to be a fucking DICKHEAD JBT!!



no kidding. The officer must have been CHP or LAPD. To quote Chris Tucker's character in "Rush Hour,"

"We LAPD. We're the most hated cops in the free world."

He obviously never met the CHP guys.....
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 1:11:29 AM EDT
I,at one time, extradited federal fugitives from CA quite frquently. I cant tell you how many times the CHP would stop us while we were gasing up or taking a piss break and ask for credentials. It would not be enough that there was a big blue tag on the vehicle with cage and strobes all over the place. Just that he saw us in plain clothes escorting someone in leg irons to the Head!!what dickheads! I have never seen so many mustaches in my life!!

I say this for CA....let'er sink!! SINK damnit!!SINK!!
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 1:18:34 AM EDT
What about these?



Are these taser clubs illegal to carry?
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 3:06:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tatsuosan1964:

Originally Posted By Paul:

Originally Posted By Drakich:
God I'm glad I don't live in California.



Me too.



+1
Probably couldn't afford it any way.



You're right, I only grossed $150,000 last year. Good money for Texas, but I certainly can't afford the median $750,000 California house, nor am I willing to put up with bullshit like a felony arrest because I have a bat in my trunk.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 3:08:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/12/2006 3:12:09 PM EDT by Drakich]

Originally Posted By Paul:

Originally Posted By Drakich:
God I'm glad I don't live in California.



Me too.

You went back more than a month in the California forum to dig this up?

You have a very boring life.



I do have a boring life. So boring in fact, that I don't have to worry about going to prison for carrying a bat in my car. Lovely set of laws you guys have there.

(And just for the record, I don't carry a bat or any other sort of improvised bludgeon in my truck), but it's nice to not have to worry about how a cop may construe some object they think is a felony weapon.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 11:02:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Drakich:

Originally Posted By Paul:

Originally Posted By Drakich:
God I'm glad I don't live in California.



Me too.

You went back more than a month in the California forum to dig this up?

You have a very boring life.



I do have a boring life. So boring in fact, that I don't have to worry about going to prison for carrying a bat in my car. Lovely set of laws you guys have there.




D-
I have heard it is illegal to carry a Bowie knife in Texas. Is that true? Is it illegal to open carry one? or just concealed? How about concealed in your car say under the drivers seat?
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 11:12:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/12/2006 11:22:48 PM EDT by Big_Bear]
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 8:52:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Big_Bear:
If you're going to troll the CA Hometown forums, maybe you ought to know your own state laws beforehand.



I wasn't intentionally trolling CA Hometown, just followed a link from GD. I'm not even one of those guys faulting AR15Fan for enforcing the law. Since you guys think I'm trolling, I'll cease and desist, with a final reply.



JohnTheTexican posted this in the thread that brought you here:

It's not just a California thing. That's the law even in relatively sane places like Texas.



But it's not. In Texas it's a Class A misdemeanor unless you carry a club onto the premises of an establishment that sells alcohol. There's a big difference between a felony and a misdemeanor.

Additionally, a club is defined as:

(1) "Club" means an instrument that is specially
designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of inflicting serious
bodily injury or death by striking a person with the instrument, and
includes but is not limited to the following:
(A) blackjack;
(B) nightstick;
(C) mace;
(D) tomahawk.

This, IMHO, gives a lot less discretion to the arresting officer when we are talking about a baseball or softball bat. A bat could certainly be considered a club under the definition, but it would appear the burden of proof would need to be on the officer, and not the subject^H^H^H^H^H citizen who is accused of carrying an illegal club.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 9:21:00 AM EDT
a cop would have to be a real A hole to arrest you for a flashlight when just about everyone of them walks out of their patrol with one close by.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 9:38:25 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 9:40:19 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 10:01:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Paul:

I haven't had my car seached over the last 30 years which is really nice too.



and you know what there may be millions of dumb laws but the officers have the discretion to ignore them, the only time cops care about guns is if you are being a dumb ass in the first place.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 1:39:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 4:36:07 PM EDT
Sometimes a certain Slavs have problems understanding terms like "not limited to". Add that to being from Baja Oklahoma where certain trais rub off on you it's not surprising some folks get more confused than govnol.
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